Guest guest Posted June 23, 2001 Report Share Posted June 23, 2001 Ruthie, this must be the longest Shabbat of the year, it's still > quite light out here, presumably you're not unleashed onto the > electrical system for another hour yet? (21.33 on my slow computer > clock) > love Caro Yup Caro, Shabbat ended tonight at 22.38 pm., the latest it gets. I think it may be the same next Shabbat then start getting a little earlier each week again. Feeling rather depressed this post-Shabbat night. Zehava my dd5 was home from her religious college in Gateshead for Shabbat, which was lovely in itself, but it kind of threw Yeshaya into stark relief. The only way I can explain it is, that Zehava noticed how much her younger brother had deteriorated in his religious observance and affiliation since she was last home, something I knew inside too but was playing ostrich about to some extent. Also when you are in it 24/7 it isn't as noticeable as when you go away and come back. She told me about it in strong terms and I felt really weepy and hopeless, and guilty too, thinking that if only I hadn't had a TV in the house, he might have turned out different...(many orthodox homes don't have one). Thing is, I don't know what I can *do* about it now. Except pray, and be the best kind of example/guide myself (and his father too of course) that we can. He is *extremely* stubborn and too big to force to do anything any more. Although last night when the menfolk came back from synagogue, Zehava and I weren't quite ready to begin the Friday evening Shabbat meal, so DH said to Yeshaya: " come on let's learn together a bit till Mummy is ready...any subject you'd like(Jewish). " Yeshaya didn't want to do *anything* with his father, but after some cajoling on my part, he said he'd learn by himself and got out a translated tractate of the Mishnah (the Talmud) and started looking at it, while Zehava and I said our Shabbat evening prayers together. Within two minutes Yeshaya had got stuck on a point and sat down next to his father at the table discussing it, so they *were* learning together after all. I don't think I *ever* said my prayers so deliberately slowly, so as to give them as much time together as possible! The fact that Zehava is in the middle of a very intense Jewish post-school education, means that she *is* passionate and intense about her faith at the moment, and coming home to see her brother " going off " as she sees it, obviously upsets her. They did have spats and quarrels this weekend, but mostly got on OK. Ruthie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 Ruthie, I really feel for you - this is a really hard time for you and your husband. Yeshaya is obviously at a major crossroad in his life: he's about to finish school and, from what you say, it's less than clear that he'll get into college to do his A Levels. Boys his age are so outwardly confident it must be very difficult for him to recognise - much less acknowledge - that all his friends' futures are as uncertain as his. I imagine he must be very confused, and feeling very lonely. I have no faith myself, so find it difficult to comprehend how faith might influence such a difficult time in his life, but do you think that his non-observance could simply be a way of hiding his confusion? What I mean is, I think if it were me then one of two things might happen: either I'd fall back on my faith as the one reliable thing in a sea of confusion; or I'd see my faith as the thing which unites me with all the successful people around me - so perhaps if I don't practice my faith, then I'll lose touch with all those successful people, and (a) have nothing against which to compare myself unfavourably, and ( prevent them from noticing that I'm not doing as well as them. As I say, pure speculation. Still, I *do* agree with all this research which has been reported over the past couple of years, that children are influenced at least as much by their peers as by their parents: so if Zehava is practising her religion, and his friends are observing theirs, then I suspect Yeshaya won't stray too far from the fold, even if he does have a short period of teenage rebellion. And one thing you've demonstrated consistently here, Ruthie, is an amazing ability to leave the doors open for your children, and a deep affection for and patience with them. Vicki Vicki Portman http://www.plushpants.co.uk Re: Shabbat ending, Ruthie? > Ruthie, this must be the longest Shabbat of the year, it's still > > quite light out here, presumably you're not unleashed onto the > > electrical system for another hour yet? (21.33 on my slow computer > > clock) > > love Caro > > Yup Caro, Shabbat ended tonight at 22.38 pm., the latest it gets. I > think it may be the same next Shabbat then start getting a little > earlier each week again. > > Feeling rather depressed this post-Shabbat night. Zehava my dd5 was > home from her religious college in Gateshead for Shabbat, which was > lovely in itself, but it kind of threw Yeshaya into stark relief. The > only way I can explain it is, that Zehava noticed how much her younger > brother had deteriorated in his religious observance and affiliation > since she was last home, something I knew inside too but was playing > ostrich about to some extent. Also when you are in it 24/7 it isn't > as noticeable as when you go away and come back. She told me about it > in strong terms and I felt really weepy and hopeless, and guilty too, > thinking that if only I hadn't had a TV in the house, he might have > turned out different...(many orthodox homes don't have one). > > Thing is, I don't know what I can *do* about it now. Except pray, and > be the best kind of example/guide myself (and his father too of > course) that we can. He is *extremely* stubborn and too big to force > to do anything any more. Although last night when the menfolk came > back from synagogue, Zehava and I weren't quite ready to begin the > Friday evening Shabbat meal, so DH said to Yeshaya: " come on let's > learn together a bit till Mummy is ready...any subject you'd > like(Jewish). " Yeshaya didn't want to do *anything* with his father, > but after some cajoling on my part, he said he'd learn by himself and > got out a translated tractate of the Mishnah (the Talmud) and started > looking at it, while Zehava and I said our Shabbat evening prayers > together. Within two minutes Yeshaya had got stuck on a point and sat > down next to his father at the table discussing it, so they *were* > learning together after all. I don't think I *ever* said my prayers > so deliberately slowly, so as to give them as much time together as > possible! > > The fact that Zehava is in the middle of a very intense Jewish > post-school education, means that she *is* passionate and intense > about her faith at the moment, and coming home to see her brother > " going off " as she sees it, obviously upsets her. They did have spats > and quarrels this weekend, but mostly got on OK. > > Ruthie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** NCT enquiry line - 0 *** > > Live chat http://www.yahoogroups.com/chat/nct-coffee > > Have you found out about all the other groups for the NCT online? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 Vicki, Thank you, your email was really heartwarming. As was a phonecall this morning to my DD4 Tavya (mother of Rafi, in Jerusalem). Tavya is SO level headed and wise, as I am sure I have said before. I *needed* to talk to her after the black-and-white attitude of Zehava. Tavya gave me hope. You see, Zehava said that Yeshaya had told her, if he doesn't get his 5 C's, he will go straight to an Israeli Yeshivah (theological college for boys) and picked one very close to our Jerusalem house, in fact when we are there we often have guests for meals from its students. Zehava's opinion of this yeshivah was that it was the " bummiest " yeshivah with a reputation for harbouring bums who don't study, which is why, in her view, he chose it. Also being in such close proximity to our house, it may give yeshaya access to video watching etc, all strongly discouraged in yeshivah life. (see my comment in my last email about having a TV). Tavya made me feel MUCH better about that yeshivah. She said firstly it hasn't got such a bad name any more, secondly yeshaya is unlikely to chose any yeshivah *without* a " bum " element, and thirdly the fact that we are friendly with the " Rosh yeshivah " (the dean, Rabbi M) means that he will keep a close eye on yeshaya. Not only that, but Rabbi M actually has access to our house there, he uses it as a quiet place to prepare his lessons. So he would certainly know if yeshaya was " partying " there. Also Tavya said she has seen so many boys who have really changed and improved when they go to yeshivah. I suppose now my worst case scenario would be if he fails his GCSE's AND refuses to go to any yeshivah. That would be a nightmare but that hasn't happened and I must just continue to pray that it doesn't. Thanks again Vicki Ruthie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 >Vicki, > >Thank you, your email was really heartwarming. > >As was a phonecall this morning to my DD4 Tavya (mother of Rafi, in >Jerusalem). Tavya is SO level headed and wise, as I am sure I have >said before. I *needed* to talk to her after the black-and-white attitude of Zehava. Hmm, yes - and didn't you say that Zehava has had to come home early from school, so she's got her own problems - is she feeling defensive and this is making her holier than thou about her brother, maybe hoping to deflect attention from herself? -- jennifer@... Vaudin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2001 Report Share Posted June 24, 2001 > >Vicki, > > > >Thank you, your email was really heartwarming. > > > >As was a phonecall this morning to my DD4 Tavya (mother of Rafi, in > >Jerusalem). Tavya is SO level headed and wise, as I am sure I have > >said before. I *needed* to talk to her after the black-and-white > attitude of Zehava. > > Hmm, yes - and didn't you say that Zehava has had to come home early > from school, so she's got her own problems - is she feeling defensive > and this is making her holier than thou about her brother, maybe > hoping to deflect attention from herself? I don't think so..she's just being judgmental and opinionated rather than defensive. Although there *may* be an element of " there but for the Grace of G-d go I.. " because she asked me today if I had ever wondered what path my life would have taken if I had made different decisions. Zehava has only come home for the weekend, not early for end of term, she's going back today. She just needed a break from the intense pressure of being with 300 girls 24/7. It has given her a chance to think through her friendships and their problems, and she has come to very sensible decisions. Ruthie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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