Re: Sulfation Problems - On the Genova test.

[Guest guest]

Jackie - I know DDI has an amino acids panel, which would be a way of

testing cysteine levels. Has Andy worked out the validity of this test?

(And I looked it up, but don't see the difference between " plasma " and

" serum " . I think they are the same (?). I believe Andy's point was

that the equipment used at Great Smokies was changed when they were

taken over by Genova, and that the test is simply no longer valid.

Perhaps DDI does it correctly? In any case, please correct me if I'm

wrong.)

Dave.

----------------

But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now

do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to

do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't

accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this,

but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is

any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help.

Anyone else remember details about this?-------

--Jackie

[Guest guest]

Jackie - I know DDI has an amino acids panel, which would be a way of

testing cysteine levels. Has Andy worked out the validity of this test?

(And I looked it up, but don't see the difference between " plasma " and

" serum " . I think they are the same (?). I believe Andy's point was

that the equipment used at Great Smokies was changed when they were

taken over by Genova, and that the test is simply no longer valid.

Perhaps DDI does it correctly? In any case, please correct me if I'm

wrong.)

Dave.

----------------

But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now

do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to

do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't

accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this,

but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is

any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help.

Anyone else remember details about this?-------

--Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Dave - AM&FDC Posts wrote:

Jackie - I know DDI has an amino acids panel, which would be a way of

testing cysteine levels. Has Andy worked out the validity of this test?

----------I don't know Dave. This stuff is usually talked about more on the

A-M board, because those parents do alot more testing than we do, in general.

Hopefully one of those that are in both groups will be able to answer this for

us. I haven't had time to read over there for a long time. Also, somebody

could try searching onibasu and see if they find anything. But my understanding

from is that Great Smokies (Genova) was the only place that used to do the

correct test, and now it's done differently, and Andy says it's not useful

anymore. I have not heard of any alternatives that Andy says is worthwhile. Is

the DDI test urine or plasma or what? If we don't get any feedback from

members, we could ask Andy, but not sure how busy he is right

now.---------Jackie

(And I looked it up, but don't see the difference between " plasma " and

" serum " . I think they are the same (?).

----------You could be right, I really don't know. This chemistry stuff is

not my thing! But I thought that was how I remembered hearing it, that it

changed from plasma to serum, but I could wrong, scary to trust this mercury

brain!---------Jackie

I believe Andy's point was

that the equipment used at Great Smokies was changed when they were

taken over by Genova, and that the test is simply no longer valid.

---------There is probably a post by him explaining this, but I haven't had

time to try to find it. If somebody has time to search onibasu?----------Jackie

Perhaps DDI does it correctly? In any case, please correct me if I'm

wrong.)

------------I have no idea if DDI does it correctly, but if they did, I would

think that it would be public knowledge on these boards, and that someone from

A-M would tell us. And honestly, I don't even understand what makes one type of

this test valid and useful and the other not. Andy would need to explain it.

Possibly someone like would understand why also.------------Jackie

Dave.

----------------

But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now

do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to

do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't

accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this,

but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is

any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help.

Anyone else remember details about this?-------

--Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Dave - AM&FDC Posts wrote:

Jackie - I know DDI has an amino acids panel, which would be a way of

testing cysteine levels. Has Andy worked out the validity of this test?

----------I don't know Dave. This stuff is usually talked about more on the

A-M board, because those parents do alot more testing than we do, in general.

Hopefully one of those that are in both groups will be able to answer this for

us. I haven't had time to read over there for a long time. Also, somebody

could try searching onibasu and see if they find anything. But my understanding

from is that Great Smokies (Genova) was the only place that used to do the

correct test, and now it's done differently, and Andy says it's not useful

anymore. I have not heard of any alternatives that Andy says is worthwhile. Is

the DDI test urine or plasma or what? If we don't get any feedback from

members, we could ask Andy, but not sure how busy he is right

now.---------Jackie

(And I looked it up, but don't see the difference between " plasma " and

" serum " . I think they are the same (?).

----------You could be right, I really don't know. This chemistry stuff is

not my thing! But I thought that was how I remembered hearing it, that it

changed from plasma to serum, but I could wrong, scary to trust this mercury

brain!---------Jackie

I believe Andy's point was

that the equipment used at Great Smokies was changed when they were

taken over by Genova, and that the test is simply no longer valid.

---------There is probably a post by him explaining this, but I haven't had

time to try to find it. If somebody has time to search onibasu?----------Jackie

Perhaps DDI does it correctly? In any case, please correct me if I'm

wrong.)

------------I have no idea if DDI does it correctly, but if they did, I would

think that it would be public knowledge on these boards, and that someone from

A-M would tell us. And honestly, I don't even understand what makes one type of

this test valid and useful and the other not. Andy would need to explain it.

Possibly someone like would understand why also.------------Jackie

Dave.

----------------

But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now

do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to

do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't

accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this,

but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is

any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help.

Anyone else remember details about this?-------

--Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Dave - AM&FDC Posts wrote:

Jackie - I know DDI has an amino acids panel, which would be a way of

testing cysteine levels. Has Andy worked out the validity of this test?

----------I don't know Dave. This stuff is usually talked about more on the

A-M board, because those parents do alot more testing than we do, in general.

Hopefully one of those that are in both groups will be able to answer this for

us. I haven't had time to read over there for a long time. Also, somebody

could try searching onibasu and see if they find anything. But my understanding

from is that Great Smokies (Genova) was the only place that used to do the

correct test, and now it's done differently, and Andy says it's not useful

anymore. I have not heard of any alternatives that Andy says is worthwhile. Is

the DDI test urine or plasma or what? If we don't get any feedback from

members, we could ask Andy, but not sure how busy he is right

now.---------Jackie

(And I looked it up, but don't see the difference between " plasma " and

" serum " . I think they are the same (?).

----------You could be right, I really don't know. This chemistry stuff is

not my thing! But I thought that was how I remembered hearing it, that it

changed from plasma to serum, but I could wrong, scary to trust this mercury

brain!---------Jackie

I believe Andy's point was

that the equipment used at Great Smokies was changed when they were

taken over by Genova, and that the test is simply no longer valid.

---------There is probably a post by him explaining this, but I haven't had

time to try to find it. If somebody has time to search onibasu?----------Jackie

Perhaps DDI does it correctly? In any case, please correct me if I'm

wrong.)

------------I have no idea if DDI does it correctly, but if they did, I would

think that it would be public knowledge on these boards, and that someone from

A-M would tell us. And honestly, I don't even understand what makes one type of

this test valid and useful and the other not. Andy would need to explain it.

Possibly someone like would understand why also.------------Jackie

Dave.

----------------

But now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)? My understanding is that they now

do *serum* cysteine and sulfate, instead of *plasma* which they used to

do and Andy preferred. I believe Andy says that the new test isn't

accurate/relevant? I don't have a link handy to him posting about this,

but maybe or somebody else does. But I still don't think there is

any harm in supplementing molybdenum and sulfate to see if they help.

Anyone else remember details about this?-------

--Jackie

[Guest guest]

Jackie -

>but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

>Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure which,

but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

might be an alternative - thought it could be expensive since it's not

just one amino acid, it's all of them.

But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

Dave.

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Dave - AM&FDC Posts wrote:

Jackie -

>but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

>Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure which,

but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

might be an alternative - though it could be expensive since it's not

just one amino acid, it's all of them.

But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

Dave.

-----------------------

Dave,

Let me know if you find anything, and if anyone is an active member on A-M,

they could ask over there. And searching posts from that group would probably

be good also. I was hoping one of the parents who belong to both would have had

an answer for us, but must not have seen this message. And I agree, it seems to

be an important test, and I would think that there would be a number of people

who want to order it, so I am surprised that *some lab* doesn't offer it any

more. I really don't understand what is so special about this test, that only

one lab was doing it, and now it's not done the same way anymore. Let's see

what we come up with, but if we don't get a good answer, then we can ask Andy.

I just don't like bothering him with too many things, and like to make sure that

the answer isn't already out there.

Also, wouldn't you think that all these parents of autistic kids and Andy and

us poisoned adults would have some influence over these labs to offer what they

need/want? It really baffles me that no one offers this useful test done the

right way.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

In frequent-dose-chelation Dave - AM&FDC Posts wrote:

Jackie -

>but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

>Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure which,

but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

might be an alternative - though it could be expensive since it's not

just one amino acid, it's all of them.

But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

Dave.

-----------------------

Dave,

Let me know if you find anything, and if anyone is an active member on A-M,

they could ask over there. And searching posts from that group would probably

be good also. I was hoping one of the parents who belong to both would have had

an answer for us, but must not have seen this message. And I agree, it seems to

be an important test, and I would think that there would be a number of people

who want to order it, so I am surprised that *some lab* doesn't offer it any

more. I really don't understand what is so special about this test, that only

one lab was doing it, and now it's not done the same way anymore. Let's see

what we come up with, but if we don't get a good answer, then we can ask Andy.

I just don't like bothering him with too many things, and like to make sure that

the answer isn't already out there.

Also, wouldn't you think that all these parents of autistic kids and Andy and

us poisoned adults would have some influence over these labs to offer what they

need/want? It really baffles me that no one offers this useful test done the

right way.

Jackie

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that Great Smokies used to test for plasma

cysteine and that test was useful, by Andy's standards. Not too long

ago they changed the way that they do the test and now it is no longer

useful (to determine if someone needs to increase sulfur food intake

or reduce it). The only way to know, now, is with trials of food

exclusion and challenge. Andy has stated this on autism mercury.

Searching for the post would take some time.

I haven't heard Andy say anything about a cysteine test from DDI. I

would think that if it was useful for this purpose he would have said

something.

As far as I know the plasma sulfate test Genova (formerly Great

Smokies) does is still useful for determining if sulfate intake needs

to be increased.

J

>

>

> Jackie -

>

> >but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

> >Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

>

> No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

> figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

> would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

> earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure

which,

> but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

> might be an alternative - though it could be expensive since it's not

> just one amino acid, it's all of them.

>

> But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

>

> I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

>

> Dave.

> -----------------------

>

> Dave,

>

> Let me know if you find anything, and if anyone is an active

member on A-M, they could ask over there. And searching posts from

that group would probably be good also. I was hoping one of the

parents who belong to both would have had an answer for us, but must

not have seen this message. And I agree, it seems to be an important

test, and I would think that there would be a number of people who

want to order it, so I am surprised that *some lab* doesn't offer it

any more. I really don't understand what is so special about this

test, that only one lab was doing it, and now it's not done the same

way anymore. Let's see what we come up with, but if we don't get a

good answer, then we can ask Andy. I just don't like bothering him

with too many things, and like to make sure that the answer isn't

already out there.

>

> Also, wouldn't you think that all these parents of autistic kids

and Andy and us poisoned adults would have some influence over these

labs to offer what they need/want? It really baffles me that no one

offers this useful test done the right way.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that Great Smokies used to test for plasma

cysteine and that test was useful, by Andy's standards. Not too long

ago they changed the way that they do the test and now it is no longer

useful (to determine if someone needs to increase sulfur food intake

or reduce it). The only way to know, now, is with trials of food

exclusion and challenge. Andy has stated this on autism mercury.

Searching for the post would take some time.

I haven't heard Andy say anything about a cysteine test from DDI. I

would think that if it was useful for this purpose he would have said

something.

As far as I know the plasma sulfate test Genova (formerly Great

Smokies) does is still useful for determining if sulfate intake needs

to be increased.

J

>

>

> Jackie -

>

> >but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

> >Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

>

> No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

> figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

> would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

> earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure

which,

> but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

> might be an alternative - though it could be expensive since it's not

> just one amino acid, it's all of them.

>

> But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

>

> I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

>

> Dave.

> -----------------------

>

> Dave,

>

> Let me know if you find anything, and if anyone is an active

member on A-M, they could ask over there. And searching posts from

that group would probably be good also. I was hoping one of the

parents who belong to both would have had an answer for us, but must

not have seen this message. And I agree, it seems to be an important

test, and I would think that there would be a number of people who

want to order it, so I am surprised that *some lab* doesn't offer it

any more. I really don't understand what is so special about this

test, that only one lab was doing it, and now it's not done the same

way anymore. Let's see what we come up with, but if we don't get a

good answer, then we can ask Andy. I just don't like bothering him

with too many things, and like to make sure that the answer isn't

already out there.

>

> Also, wouldn't you think that all these parents of autistic kids

and Andy and us poisoned adults would have some influence over these

labs to offer what they need/want? It really baffles me that no one

offers this useful test done the right way.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Jackie -

>

> >but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

> >Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

>

> No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

> figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

> would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

> earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure which,

> but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

The plasma amino acids test checks cystine, not cysteine.

At least that was true for the DDI version when I had it done,

I haven't checked recently.

Cystine is different and doesn't help with knowing cysteine status.

--

> might be an alternative - thought it could be expensive since it's not

> just one amino acid, it's all of them.

>

> But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

>

> I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

>

> Dave.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Jackie -

>

> >but now, after saying all of that, did you just recently do the Liver

> >Detox Panel by Genova (Great Smokies)?

>

> No, I didn't; but the thing that helped me the most years ago was

> figuring out that my sulfur was high. So, if there is a test, then it

> would be very useful for others. I was talking to the people at DDI

> earlier this week, and they told me of a serum/plasma (not sure which,

> but it's a blood test) amino acid panel. So, I suddenly thought there

The plasma amino acids test checks cystine, not cysteine.

At least that was true for the DDI version when I had it done,

I haven't checked recently.

Cystine is different and doesn't help with knowing cysteine status.

--

> might be an alternative - thought it could be expensive since it's not

> just one amino acid, it's all of them.

>

> But you're right, it would probably be public knowledge.

>

> I'll go have a look at Onibasu in a bit...

>

> Dave.

>

[Guest guest]

. I see that you are right. I found a sample test here:

http://www.doctorsdata.com/repository.asp?id=1416

This is a bit odd, given that their urine amino acids test, includes

cysteine under " Essential Amino Acids " , and this is the only one they

are leaving out of the plasma test. I'm going to go and ask them why.

Dave.

------------

The plasma amino acids test checks cystine, not cysteine.

At least that was true for the DDI version when I had it done,

I haven't checked recently.

Cystine is different and doesn't help with knowing cysteine status.

--