Guest guest Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Howdy, Well I've been away and now I'm back because I'm ready, really READY to start chelating. My revisions were complete July '04 and I did an MD supervised adrenal supplementation with Hydrocortisol for a year to build up adrenals (this really helped but did not restore complete function). I have my scrip for DMPS and plan on starting very, very low dose for at least 4-5 rounds. With a body weight of 150 I'm pretty confident I can tolerate more than 12.5 mg dose but that's what I'm going to start. I've reviewed the links summarizing protocols and dosages but still have questions. 1)From what I can see the ideal dose ratio of DMPS to ALA is 1/1. What about a dose ratio of 1/2 DMPS to ALA? I don't know if a 12.5 mg dose of ALA could be had from anyone but a compounder but 25mg is readily available. Please reply especially if you have experience with the 1/2 dose ratio. 2)Which is the principal pathway via which DMPS/mercury compounds are excreted? Is it via liver/bile or kidney/urine? Is the same true with DMSA? (I seem to be producing lots of bile since my dental revisions). How does the inclusion of ALA alter excretion pathways? 3) DMPS only would tend to bind to HG in body stores but not the brain? So heart muscle, liver, where else would HG accumulate outside the brain? Connective tissue? Is the HPA considered outside the brain? Technically I think so. By adding ALA brain mercury can be moved across BBB and complexed by a chelator? Do I have this right? Most people start with chelator alone first to limit blood HG released from body stores being transported across BBB into brain by ALA? If this is correct are there any other reasons to start with chelator only? 4) Is it better to be faithful to a DMPS 8 hour protocol than to miss the occasional dose in the 3 hour DMPS/ALA dose schedule? How crappy does this make one feel? (OOPS... I slept through that 1 AM or 4 AM dose. This must happen quite often.) Personal experiences appreciated on this one. 5) I assume that I have been moving some small amount of HG back and forth across the BBB recently. Too bad that, I feel pretty psycho when this happens. I wonder if anyone thinks if soy may be protective in HG sick people. You see, I am a lacto/ovo vegetarian and for many years soy made up a large part of my diet. But recently food allergy test convinced me to go on a soy elimination diet. Well my sinus problems are dramatically better but I feel like I may have benefited from the phyto-estrogens in soy competing (successfully) with HG at hormone receptor sites. My HG symptoms from the start have included unpleasant aggressiveness/anger/impulse control testosterone related stuff. Since revisions completed these symptoms have been reduced in severity and frequency. Now back to the soy/phyto-estrogen hypothesis. Let me say first that there was plenty of soy in my diet. Perhaps as much as 80-150 grams of soy protein weekly (which I balanced for thyroid reasons with lots of iodine rich sea veges). Perhaps this is just a coincidence but since soy elimination not only are my sinuses better but the above described symptoms have become more prominent again. This is kind of another topic/thread perhaps but one I would appreciate feeback on. I am thinking of including a non-soy derived phyto-estrogen supplement in my daily routine. Peace to you all, looking forward to your feedback and references. Doug in NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 I only really know the answer for question 4: Dosing schedule is very important. You can't miss a dose. You just do whatever it takes to take the dose on time. And if you miss a dose you have to stop chelation and end the round or you will cause too much redistribution and side effects. This even means waking up 2-3 times in the middle of sleep. I wear a vibrating timer that clips to my underwear while I sleep plus my audible alarm clock and cell phone alarm. The only acceptable compromise on dose is taking ALA every 4 hours during sleep so that you might only have to wake up once in the middle of the night. And immediately return to every 3 hours during the day. But many people don't even tolerate that well. > > Howdy, > Well I've been away and now I'm back because I'm ready, really READY > to start chelating. My revisions were complete July '04 and I did an > MD supervised adrenal supplementation with Hydrocortisol for a year to > build up adrenals (this really helped but did not restore complete > function). I have my scrip for DMPS and plan on starting very, very > low dose for at least 4-5 rounds. With a body weight of 150 I'm pretty > confident I can tolerate more than 12.5 mg dose but that's what I'm > going to start. I've reviewed the links > summarizing protocols and dosages but still have questions. > > 1)From what I can see the ideal dose ratio of DMPS to ALA is 1/1. > What about a dose ratio of 1/2 DMPS to ALA? I don't know if a 12.5 mg > dose of ALA could be had from anyone but a compounder but 25mg is > readily available. Please reply especially if you have experience with > the 1/2 dose ratio. > > 2)Which is the principal pathway via which DMPS/mercury compounds are > excreted? Is it via liver/bile or kidney/urine? Is the same true > with DMSA? (I seem to be producing lots of bile since my dental > revisions). How does the inclusion of ALA alter excretion pathways? > > 3) DMPS only would tend to bind to HG in body stores but not the > brain? So heart muscle, liver, where else would HG accumulate outside > the brain? Connective tissue? Is the HPA considered outside the brain? > Technically I think so. By adding ALA brain mercury can be moved > across BBB and complexed by a chelator? Do I have this right? Most > people start with chelator alone first to limit blood HG released from > body stores being transported across BBB into brain by ALA? If this > is correct are there any other reasons to start with chelator only? > > 4) Is it better to be faithful to a DMPS 8 hour protocol than to miss > the occasional dose in the 3 hour DMPS/ALA dose schedule? How crappy > does this make one feel? (OOPS... I slept through that 1 AM or 4 AM > dose. This must happen quite often.) Personal experiences appreciated > on this one. > > 5) I assume that I have been moving some small amount of HG back and > forth across the BBB recently. Too bad that, I feel pretty psycho > when this happens. I wonder if anyone thinks if soy may > be protective in HG sick people. You see, I am a lacto/ovo vegetarian > and for many years soy made up a large part of my diet. But > recently food allergy test convinced me to go on a soy elimination > diet. Well my sinus problems are dramatically better but I feel like > I may have benefited from the phyto-estrogens in soy competing > (successfully) with HG at hormone receptor sites. My HG symptoms from > the start have included unpleasant aggressiveness/anger/impulse > control testosterone related stuff. Since revisions completed these > symptoms have been reduced in severity and frequency. > > Now back to the soy/phyto-estrogen hypothesis. Let me say first that > there was plenty of soy in my diet. Perhaps as much as 80-150 grams of > soy protein weekly (which I balanced for thyroid reasons with lots of > iodine rich sea veges). > Perhaps this is just a coincidence but since soy elimination not only > are my sinuses better but the above described symptoms have become > more prominent again. This is kind of another topic/thread perhaps > but one I would appreciate feeback on. I am thinking of including a > non-soy derived phyto-estrogen supplement in my daily routine. > > Peace to you all, looking forward to your feedback and references. > > Doug in NH > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation nhdougsimmons wrote: Howdy, Well I've been away and now I'm back because I'm ready, really READY to start chelating. My revisions were complete July '04 and I did an MD supervised adrenal supplementation with Hydrocortisol for a year to build up adrenals (this really helped but did not restore complete function). ---------Have you tried ACE (adrenal cortex extract)? I didn't tolerate it a couple years ago, but I do now, so you may want to consider it, if you think your adrenals still could use some help.---------Jackie I have my scrip for DMPS and plan on starting very, very low dose for at least 4-5 rounds. With a body weight of 150 I'm pretty confident I can tolerate more than 12.5 mg dose but that's what I'm going to start. I've reviewed the links summarizing protocols and dosages but still have questions. 1)From what I can see the ideal dose ratio of DMPS to ALA is 1/1. What about a dose ratio of 1/2 DMPS to ALA? I don't know if a 12.5 mg dose of ALA could be had from anyone but a compounder but 25mg is readily available. Please reply especially if you have experience with the 1/2 dose ratio. -------------I think I have read where anywhere from 2/1 to 1/2 is ok. This might be in the Andy Index, or search the archives, here and at A-M. You can buy empty capsules and split the 25mg ALA capsules into smaller doses yourself. Alot of us do this.----------Jackie 2)Which is the principal pathway via which DMPS/mercury compounds are excreted? Is it via liver/bile or kidney/urine? Is the same true with DMSA? (I seem to be producing lots of bile since my dental revisions). How does the inclusion of ALA alter excretion pathways? ---------DMSA and DMPS is through the urine, ALA is through feces------------Jackie --------See chart on page 207 of AI, we just discussed this. Without taking a chelator, the body naturally excretes some mercury, and this is mostly through the feces (first example in chart).---------Jackie 3) DMPS only would tend to bind to HG in body stores but not the brain? So heart muscle, liver, where else would HG accumulate outside the brain? Connective tissue? Is the HPA considered outside the brain? -----------According to Andy, only ALA crosses the BBB. DMPS and DMSA help lower your body burden, but I don't know if I can tell you exactly from where, so I don't want to guess on that. The Hypothalamus and Pituitary (part of the HPA axis) are in the brain, and only the Adrenal glands are outside, so part of the HPA is in the brain, and requires ALA chelation to clear them (my understanding).--------Jackie Technically I think so. By adding ALA brain mercury can be moved across BBB and complexed by a chelator? Do I have this right? -----------The BBB is a two way street. ALA can carry mercury into and out of your brain. If your body burden is high and you take ALA, chances are you will move more mercury into your brain than out. If body burden is low, and you take appropriate doses of ALA on a frequent schedule, then there should be net movement of mercury/metals out of the brain and out of the body.------Jackie Most people start with chelator alone first to limit blood HG released from body stores being transported across BBB into brain by ALA? If this is correct are there any other reasons to start with chelator only? ---------First question, yes, answered above. The other reason to start one chelator at a time, is so you know how you react to each one individually, so you know what is causing what. Some people tolerate different chelators differently.-------Jackie 4) Is it better to be faithful to a DMPS 8 hour protocol than to miss the occasional dose in the 3 hour DMPS/ALA dose schedule? How crappy does this make one feel? (OOPS... I slept through that 1 AM or 4 AM dose. This must happen quite often.) Personal experiences appreciated on this one. ----------Taking the doses on time and not missing any is critical. You can cause redistribution and should end the round if you miss a dose. The general rule is you can take the dose and continue chelating if you are only 1 hour late, maximum. I think some people have reported missing by 1-1/2 hours and continuing, and I think they were ok, but this might not be true for everyone. If you miss a whole dose by 3 hours, you should not continue.-----------Jackie 5) I assume that I have been moving some small amount of HG back and forth across the BBB recently. Too bad that, I feel pretty psycho when this happens. I wonder if anyone thinks if soy may be protective in HG sick people. You see, I am a lacto/ovo vegetarian and for many years soy made up a large part of my diet. But recently food allergy test convinced me to go on a soy elimination diet. Well my sinus problems are dramatically better but I feel like I may have benefited from the phyto-estrogens in soy competing (successfully) with HG at hormone receptor sites. My HG symptoms from the start have included unpleasant aggressiveness/anger/impulse control testosterone related stuff. Since revisions completed these symptoms have been reduced in severity and frequency. -------------I have no idea about your soy theory, but I do know that mercury messes up your hormones, mine are a mess. Have you done any hormone testing? I gave links to a number of sites on a previous post, including one for ZRT Labs, and they have symptom lists/questionaires, for men too.----------Jackie Now back to the soy/phyto-estrogen hypothesis. Let me say first that there was plenty of soy in my diet. Perhaps as much as 80-150 grams of soy protein weekly (which I balanced for thyroid reasons with lots of iodine rich sea veges). Perhaps this is just a coincidence but since soy elimination not only are my sinuses better but the above described symptoms have become more prominent again. This is kind of another topic/thread perhaps but one I would appreciate feeback on. I am thinking of including a non-soy derived phyto-estrogen supplement in my daily routine. Peace to you all, looking forward to your feedback and references. Doug in NH _._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages MARKETPLACE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Earn your degree in as few as 2 years - Advance your career with an AS, BS, MS degree - College-Finder.net. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! 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Guest guest Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 In frequent-dose-chelation nhdougsimmons wrote: Howdy, Well I've been away and now I'm back because I'm ready, really READY to start chelating. My revisions were complete July '04 and I did an MD supervised adrenal supplementation with Hydrocortisol for a year to build up adrenals (this really helped but did not restore complete function). ---------Have you tried ACE (adrenal cortex extract)? I didn't tolerate it a couple years ago, but I do now, so you may want to consider it, if you think your adrenals still could use some help.---------Jackie I have my scrip for DMPS and plan on starting very, very low dose for at least 4-5 rounds. With a body weight of 150 I'm pretty confident I can tolerate more than 12.5 mg dose but that's what I'm going to start. I've reviewed the links summarizing protocols and dosages but still have questions. 1)From what I can see the ideal dose ratio of DMPS to ALA is 1/1. What about a dose ratio of 1/2 DMPS to ALA? I don't know if a 12.5 mg dose of ALA could be had from anyone but a compounder but 25mg is readily available. Please reply especially if you have experience with the 1/2 dose ratio. -------------I think I have read where anywhere from 2/1 to 1/2 is ok. This might be in the Andy Index, or search the archives, here and at A-M. You can buy empty capsules and split the 25mg ALA capsules into smaller doses yourself. Alot of us do this.----------Jackie 2)Which is the principal pathway via which DMPS/mercury compounds are excreted? Is it via liver/bile or kidney/urine? Is the same true with DMSA? (I seem to be producing lots of bile since my dental revisions). How does the inclusion of ALA alter excretion pathways? ---------DMSA and DMPS is through the urine, ALA is through feces------------Jackie --------See chart on page 207 of AI, we just discussed this. Without taking a chelator, the body naturally excretes some mercury, and this is mostly through the feces (first example in chart).---------Jackie 3) DMPS only would tend to bind to HG in body stores but not the brain? So heart muscle, liver, where else would HG accumulate outside the brain? Connective tissue? Is the HPA considered outside the brain? -----------According to Andy, only ALA crosses the BBB. DMPS and DMSA help lower your body burden, but I don't know if I can tell you exactly from where, so I don't want to guess on that. The Hypothalamus and Pituitary (part of the HPA axis) are in the brain, and only the Adrenal glands are outside, so part of the HPA is in the brain, and requires ALA chelation to clear them (my understanding).--------Jackie Technically I think so. By adding ALA brain mercury can be moved across BBB and complexed by a chelator? Do I have this right? -----------The BBB is a two way street. ALA can carry mercury into and out of your brain. If your body burden is high and you take ALA, chances are you will move more mercury into your brain than out. If body burden is low, and you take appropriate doses of ALA on a frequent schedule, then there should be net movement of mercury/metals out of the brain and out of the body.------Jackie Most people start with chelator alone first to limit blood HG released from body stores being transported across BBB into brain by ALA? If this is correct are there any other reasons to start with chelator only? ---------First question, yes, answered above. The other reason to start one chelator at a time, is so you know how you react to each one individually, so you know what is causing what. Some people tolerate different chelators differently.-------Jackie 4) Is it better to be faithful to a DMPS 8 hour protocol than to miss the occasional dose in the 3 hour DMPS/ALA dose schedule? How crappy does this make one feel? (OOPS... I slept through that 1 AM or 4 AM dose. This must happen quite often.) Personal experiences appreciated on this one. ----------Taking the doses on time and not missing any is critical. You can cause redistribution and should end the round if you miss a dose. The general rule is you can take the dose and continue chelating if you are only 1 hour late, maximum. I think some people have reported missing by 1-1/2 hours and continuing, and I think they were ok, but this might not be true for everyone. If you miss a whole dose by 3 hours, you should not continue.-----------Jackie 5) I assume that I have been moving some small amount of HG back and forth across the BBB recently. Too bad that, I feel pretty psycho when this happens. I wonder if anyone thinks if soy may be protective in HG sick people. You see, I am a lacto/ovo vegetarian and for many years soy made up a large part of my diet. But recently food allergy test convinced me to go on a soy elimination diet. Well my sinus problems are dramatically better but I feel like I may have benefited from the phyto-estrogens in soy competing (successfully) with HG at hormone receptor sites. My HG symptoms from the start have included unpleasant aggressiveness/anger/impulse control testosterone related stuff. Since revisions completed these symptoms have been reduced in severity and frequency. -------------I have no idea about your soy theory, but I do know that mercury messes up your hormones, mine are a mess. Have you done any hormone testing? I gave links to a number of sites on a previous post, including one for ZRT Labs, and they have symptom lists/questionaires, for men too.----------Jackie Now back to the soy/phyto-estrogen hypothesis. Let me say first that there was plenty of soy in my diet. Perhaps as much as 80-150 grams of soy protein weekly (which I balanced for thyroid reasons with lots of iodine rich sea veges). Perhaps this is just a coincidence but since soy elimination not only are my sinuses better but the above described symptoms have become more prominent again. This is kind of another topic/thread perhaps but one I would appreciate feeback on. I am thinking of including a non-soy derived phyto-estrogen supplement in my daily routine. Peace to you all, looking forward to your feedback and references. Doug in NH _._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages MARKETPLACE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Earn your degree in as few as 2 years - Advance your career with an AS, BS, MS degree - College-Finder.net. Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 11New Members b.. 3New Links Visit Your Group Meditation and Lovingkindness A Yahoo! Group to share and learn. Yahoo! Health Achy Joint? Common arthritis myths debunked. Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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