EMSAT

April 22, 2010

Fighting is good, but you also need to know when to stop fighting, and

have the ability to completely line up behind whichever side " wins " ,

and remain loyal to the organization, even if you might disagree with

some of the decisions.

Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2010, at 22:24, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...

> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 21, 2010 09:39, " Wayne D " rxmd911@...>

> said:

>

> > As long as we fight among ourselves, no one will want to join.

>

> True. But if we don't fight among ourselves, we'll never work things

> out and acquire a focused vision. Damned if we do. Damned if we

> don't. But I am of the opinion that we are in the pickle we are in

> because we don't fight enough. If we just walk merrily along,

> pretending everything is fine, and that we all agree on everything,

> we're going to continue to go nowhere.

>

> Fighting is good. Fighting is what built this country.

>

> Rob

>

April 22, 2010

Fighting is good, but you also need to know when to stop fighting, and

have the ability to completely line up behind whichever side " wins " ,

and remain loyal to the organization, even if you might disagree with

some of the decisions.

Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2010, at 22:24, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...

> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 21, 2010 09:39, " Wayne D " rxmd911@...>

> said:

>

> > As long as we fight among ourselves, no one will want to join.

>

> True. But if we don't fight among ourselves, we'll never work things

> out and acquire a focused vision. Damned if we do. Damned if we

> don't. But I am of the opinion that we are in the pickle we are in

> because we don't fight enough. If we just walk merrily along,

> pretending everything is fine, and that we all agree on everything,

> we're going to continue to go nowhere.

>

> Fighting is good. Fighting is what built this country.

>

> Rob

>

April 22, 2010

Fighting is good, but you also need to know when to stop fighting, and

have the ability to completely line up behind whichever side " wins " ,

and remain loyal to the organization, even if you might disagree with

some of the decisions.

Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2010, at 22:24, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...

> wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 21, 2010 09:39, " Wayne D " rxmd911@...>

> said:

>

> > As long as we fight among ourselves, no one will want to join.

>

> True. But if we don't fight among ourselves, we'll never work things

> out and acquire a focused vision. Damned if we do. Damned if we

> don't. But I am of the opinion that we are in the pickle we are in

> because we don't fight enough. If we just walk merrily along,

> pretending everything is fine, and that we all agree on everything,

> we're going to continue to go nowhere.

>

> Fighting is good. Fighting is what built this country.

>

> Rob

>

April 22, 2010

Well you know, nah never happen but maybe orangutans..............

Gene thanks for such a clear explanation and even history of EMSAT. I was a

member but never notified when membership was to expire and when I guessed it

should be time could not get on the web site to renew.

I really think a way to get membership up quickly would be to contact the

educational programs in the state and ask them to include the cost of membership

in the class fees. Then as part of the education include a lesson or two on

activities that get the students involved, heck even Doc Bledsoe's book mentions

Paramedics being active in the advancement of EMS. Would all remain active?

No, but it would help get operational funds and maybe at least a decent

percentage would remain active.

Then with an organization having some funds those already in EMS would see the

possibilities and more would join.

Perhaps this has been tried. Perhaps it is to late.

Renny Spencer

Paramedic

Their motto is " Go with the flow. " If the state decides that chimpanzees can

be EMTs, so be it.

April 22, 2010

Well you know, nah never happen but maybe orangutans..............

Gene thanks for such a clear explanation and even history of EMSAT. I was a

member but never notified when membership was to expire and when I guessed it

should be time could not get on the web site to renew.

I really think a way to get membership up quickly would be to contact the

educational programs in the state and ask them to include the cost of membership

in the class fees. Then as part of the education include a lesson or two on

activities that get the students involved, heck even Doc Bledsoe's book mentions

Paramedics being active in the advancement of EMS. Would all remain active?

No, but it would help get operational funds and maybe at least a decent

percentage would remain active.

Then with an organization having some funds those already in EMS would see the

possibilities and more would join.

Perhaps this has been tried. Perhaps it is to late.

Renny Spencer

Paramedic

Their motto is " Go with the flow. " If the state decides that chimpanzees can

be EMTs, so be it.

April 22, 2010

Well you know, nah never happen but maybe orangutans..............

Gene thanks for such a clear explanation and even history of EMSAT. I was a

member but never notified when membership was to expire and when I guessed it

should be time could not get on the web site to renew.

I really think a way to get membership up quickly would be to contact the

educational programs in the state and ask them to include the cost of membership

in the class fees. Then as part of the education include a lesson or two on

activities that get the students involved, heck even Doc Bledsoe's book mentions

Paramedics being active in the advancement of EMS. Would all remain active?

No, but it would help get operational funds and maybe at least a decent

percentage would remain active.

Then with an organization having some funds those already in EMS would see the

possibilities and more would join.

Perhaps this has been tried. Perhaps it is to late.

Renny Spencer

Paramedic

Their motto is " Go with the flow. " If the state decides that chimpanzees can

be EMTs, so be it.

April 22, 2010

Just one more thought from me.... have any of these organizations that

claim to represent EMS shown us why EMS as a whole (as opposed to just

firefighters, volunteers, or private EMS) needs an umbrella voice? Are there

issues that impact ALL of us in EMS and that require a unified voice?

-Wes

In a message dated 4/22/2010 4:22:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

rick.moore@... writes:

This is a great reply Gene, I know I was not aware of the history of EMSAT.

I do have to say that I donâ€™t know if itâ€™s apathy or suspicion or

economic issues but it really doesnâ€™t seem to make any difference how

productive

an organization is if the proposed membership does not believe in it. TETAF

is an organization that has full time staff, has a proven record of

legislative awareness and has gotten farther with the proposed â€œplatinum

planâ€

for EMS CE than anyone else, yet the EMS division seems to struggle with

participation and membership. Comments that I hear most often are that TETAF is

all about trauma and hospitals and does nothing for EMS and EMS needs its

own statewide organization, yet here is evidence that didnâ€™t work either. I

also have to say that we are inundated now days with associations and

organizations on the local, state and national level that want our membership

and insist they are the only ones who can provide the services we need. Add

to that NR fees, state cert or license fees, fees for CE, subscriptions for

journals, etc. that low $35.00 membership fee is now multiplied several

times over. Sure we may spend that on pizza and beer, but at least pizza

nourishes and beer hydrates. Unfortunately if I am having a tough time paying

the bills and feeding my family any fees that are not required to maintain

the license that allows me to perform my job are going to get cut from the

budget. At this point I think that is the bigger reason EMSAT is where itâ€™s

at now and probably the reason it wonâ€™t bounce back anytime soon.

Rick

From: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of _wegandy1938@wegandy_ (mailto:wegandy1938@...)

Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:22 PM

To: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject: Re: EMSAT

I have held off commenting on EMSAT, not wanting to become a part of a

kerfuffle, but perhaps I can help those who haven't been around for

lebenty-eight years like me and Louis and Ron and so forth.

I am a former board member and (I think) officer. It's been a while since

I was involved, since I have spent much of my time out of Texas in the last

few years but remain convinced that Texas has the best EMS of any state in

the union.

1. At one time NAEMT had a presence in Texas, and it had local chapters,

something EMSAT never did, and probably one of the reasons EMSAT failed.

However, people also lost interest in NAEMT and it basically folded as a local

entity in Texas.

2. About that time, Ron Haussecker and others, with the encouragement of

the then Bureau Chief, formed EMSAT. It was formed as a tax exempt

corporation and it had full IRS recognition as a tax free entity. There were

also

other attempts at starting organizations. I can't remember the names of any

of them but none of them survived. Legally, EMSAT is a legitimate, legal,

organization. It is a private organization as are most corporations, but it's

no different from the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, or the Catholic

Church. It is a charitable corporatioin.

3. EMSAT's mission was to monitor the actions of the legislature and what

was then the Texas Department of Health to see what was going on and make

sure that the interests of the rank and file EMS provider were promoted and

protected. It also tried to do some other things like offer CE, insurance,

and so forth, but its primary purpose was as a watchdog for EMS providers

and as a lobbyist at the legislature.

4. After it got started, it had enough members to hire a legislative

lobbyist to track legislation that could effect EMS, to work to kill

legislation

that was detrimental to EMS, and to promote legislation that was friendly

to EMS. Without going into details, EMSAT was successful in killing a

number of bills that would have been harmful to EMS. This was done by an

organization that never achieved even 1% of the 50,000+ certificants in Texas.

Why do Texas EMS people not want to join an organization that makes sense

for them and costs little? There are many reasons. Big city firefighter EMS

folks are generally union members, and they feel that their union takes

care of their needs. They see themselves as members of their department, not

as members of the Texas EMS family. So they see no reason to join. Others

feel that they cannot afford the dues ($35) although the routinely spend

that on pizza and beer. Others are simply not interested in what happens to

them. Their motto is " Go with the flow. " If the state decides that

chimpanzees can be EMTs, so be it.

5. One of the major failings was not having an office with a paid

full-time person to answer the phone, keep books, handle memberships, write

correspondence, and so forth. There simply was never enough money to do that.

That

probably was the one greatest thing that held EMSAT back. It's the old

problem, you can't get eggs till you have chickens, but if you can't afford a

chicken, you can't have any eggs.

6. Attempts were made to hire part-time people to work from home handling

the business and contacts with members. One such individual was a disaster,

while another did her best to keep things running and for a time improved

the situation but, once again, the money was just not there due to lack of

memberships.

7. Why won't people join EMSAT? There are many answers, but the number one

reason is apathy. Many folks never knew about EMSAT, or if they did had a

skewed understanding of what it did, or simply didn't see it as worth $35.

When I was on the board, the most frequent question I got from prospective

members was, " What's in it for me? " The second most frequent was " What has

EMSAT done? " I thought I had good explanations for both those questions,

but there seemed to be a notion that EMSAT had never done anything

meaningful. Most folks do not follow the actions of the legislature and simply

do not

appreciate all the near misses EMSAT avoided through its lobbying

activities and the bad things it helped keep from happening. That's a part of

apathy.

So people refused to join because they didn't think EMSAT had done

anything, but EMSAT was hampered by not having enough revenue from memberships

to

maintain a staff and a lobbyist, so its lobbying efforts eventually failed,

and it eventually reached its present state as a non-functional

organization. For an organization to be able to make a difference, it has to

have

money. There has to be some trust somewhere. Some will say that EMSAT

squandered its trust, and to an extent, that's true, because it has not always

been

responsive to members and prospective members, but again, without money,

you can't do those things.

8. Throughout, as with any organization, there have been internecine spats

among the board and the members, which didn't help, but in my judgment

didn't sink the organization. What sunk the organization was lack of

membership.

9. My comments are not meant to criticize ANYBODY. Ron Houssecker gave his

heart and soul to EMSAT and to EMS. I know him well, and while I have not

always agreed with him, I will defend until the death his dedication to

EMS. The present President, Louis Molino, has done his best to keep things

going. One man with a full-time job cannot run an organization like EMSAT and

do anything but try to keep it from sliding under the waves.

10. Can EMSAT be salvaged? I doubt it. If only 500 people would join, it

would be on solid footing once again, but if 500 people tried to join right

now, I don't know how they would do it. Who would the contact to join? Who

would process their memberships? Perhaps Lou can clarify this.

11. Texas NEEDS an organization like EMSAT. If all 50,000 of our

certified/licensed personnel were members, do not think that the Texas

Legislature

would not listen to us.

Case in point. I'm a lawyer, and I belong to the Texas Bar Association. I

have no choice. I MUST belong and pay dues or I can't practice law. What do

I get? Some lawyers say not much, but the TBA is one of the most powerful

lobbying organizations in the state. It has the ear of the legislature, big

time.

At EMSAT we once debated different ideas to increase membership, one of

which was some way to link membership in EMSAT to certification. When I pay

my annual Bar dues (well, now that I'm over 70 I don't have to pay them

anymore), I automatically pay my dues to the Texas Bar. Perhaps some such

arrangement might work for EMSAT. But don't hold your breath.

I expect that if such a thing was proposed, there would be Tea Parties all

over the place, and the proposal would quickly die.

Bottom line: EMS folks are like cats. You love them or hate them, but you

can't herd them.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP, NREMT-P

EMS Education and Consulting

Tucson, AZ

Re: EMSAT

>

> I tried to join a few months ago and could not make the website work

> for

> me. I intended to try again but forgot. I would still like to join and

> support the effort. If EMSAT is a good idea (and I think it is), let's

> not let the setback cause it to go away. So many individuals,

> organizations and companies have seen very hard times before ultimate

> success. There does appear to be a need for EMSAT as DSHS is the only

> voice EMS has in the state.

>

> Perhaps this list can be used to determine what needs to be done and

> the

> directions EMSAT needs to go. That may well grow the organization and

> yield even more interesting projects.

>

> I have tried the website again with no luck. So, this time I will just

> put the requested information on a piece of paper, enclose an check

> and

> use snail-mail. Oh the anguish when technology fails!

>

> Be safe everyone and think about getting this organization into gear

> again ---

>

> Dick -- EMT-B

> Celina Fire Department

>

> >

> > Our BoD is down to Four. We have no support and extremely little

> > intrest from anyone except for the occasional message here or to our

> > info E-Mail address on our website which has no one maintaining it

> >

> > I could blame these facts on a variety of factors but I won't. I

> will

> > accept the blame as the current and to be frank likely the last

> > President of EMSAT.

> >

> > In ways I am sorry and apologize to the whole of Trxas EMS but I do

> > sleep soundly knowing I have tried my personal bet to build EMSAT.

> > I've failed and that bothers me greatly.

> >

> > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> > FF/NREMT/FSI/ EMSI

> > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> > Please excuse any typos.

> > (Cell)

> > LNMolino (AT) aol (DOT) com

> >

> > On Apr 19, 2010, at 20:48, Neil White

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Anyone know if EMSAT is still going? If so, what projects do they

> > > have going

> > > at this time?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance,

> > >

> > > Neil

> > >

> > > --

> > > Neil White, RN, LP

> > >

April 22, 2010