RE: What's wrong with EMS (Was: EMSAT)

[Guest guest]

When you say " the problem is... " thats where the mistake is made. Unfortnately

it is not a problem it is multiple problems. EMS, God love us, is really just

now in the second maybe third generation. We are absolutely having growing pains

not just between service models, but government and sadly between each other.

There are great organizations, I am a member of NAEMT and NAEMSE and I am proud

to be apart of them. However not all EMT's and paramedics are and they do not

feel compelled to join. I dont think this is a " dipshit " problem rather its not

handled at a grass root level. We all see the booths at conference, but thats

usually where it ends. Cool web sites but no face to face time to generate

intrest or get the message of what is going on with EMS locally, regionally,

state or national level. EMS on the Hill Day should have thousands of EMS folks

there, the word was should. I do not have a magic wand I do not have a quick

fix. It will take time and individuals willing to go and talk to services thats

any model of service EMT's and paramedics perform their duties. Be safe

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

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To: texasems-l

From: Grayson902@...

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:53:13 -0500

Subject: What's wrong with EMS (Was: EMSAT)

If you polled a representative sample of EMS providers, and asked them

" What's the biggest threat to EMS, ignorance or apathy? "

75% of them would answer, " I don't know, and I don't care. "

As much as we joust, fight and argue on these lists, what we have here

is a raging case of selection bias. We assume that everyone else in EMS

is just as passionate as we are, but they aren't.

*We* are the outliers in EMS. The other 75% of our colleagues love EMS

only so much as it is the source of their next paycheck.

This is why EMSAT, LANREMT, NAEMT, AEIOU and Sometimes Y, and every

other organization that purports to represent us will never be very

effective. The organizations aren't the problem, they're just cursed

with representing a profession of dipshits.

rick.moore@... wrote:

>

>

> This is a great reply Gene, I know I was not aware of the history of

> EMSAT. I do have to say that I don’t know if it’s apathy or suspicion

> or economic issues but it really doesn’t seem to make any difference

> how productive an organization is if the proposed membership does not

> believe in it. TETAF is an organization that has full time staff, has

> a proven record of legislative awareness and has gotten farther with

> the proposed “platinum plan” for EMS CE than anyone else, yet the EMS

> division seems to struggle with participation and membership. Comments

> that I hear most often are that TETAF is all about trauma and

> hospitals and does nothing for EMS and EMS needs its own statewide

> organization, yet here is evidence that didn’t work either. I also

> have to say that we are inundated now days with associations and

> organizations on the local, state and national level that want our

> membership and insist they are the only ones who can provide the

> services we need. Add to that NR fees, state cert or license fees,

> fees for CE, subscriptions for journals, etc. that low $35.00

> membership fee is now multiplied several times over. Sure we may spend

> that on pizza and beer, but at least pizza nourishes and beer

> hydrates. Unfortunately if I am having a tough time paying the bills

> and feeding my family any fees that are not required to maintain the

> license that allows me to perform my job are going to get cut from the

> budget. At this point I think that is the bigger reason EMSAT is where

> it’s at now and probably the reason it won’t bounce back anytime soon.

> Rick

>

> From: texasems-l

> [mailto:texasems-l

> ] On Behalf Of

> wegandy1938@...

> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:22 PM

> To: texasems-l

> Subject: Re: EMSAT

>

>

>

> I have held off commenting on EMSAT, not wanting to become a part of a

> kerfuffle, but perhaps I can help those who haven't been around for

> lebenty-eight years like me and Louis and Ron and so forth.

>

> I am a former board member and (I think) officer. It's been a while

> since I was involved, since I have spent much of my time out of Texas

> in the last few years but remain convinced that Texas has the best EMS

> of any state in the union.

>

> 1. At one time NAEMT had a presence in Texas, and it had local

> chapters, something EMSAT never did, and probably one of the reasons

> EMSAT failed. However, people also lost interest in NAEMT and it

> basically folded as a local entity in Texas.

>

> 2. About that time, Ron Haussecker and others, with the encouragement

> of the then Bureau Chief, formed EMSAT. It was formed as a tax exempt

> corporation and it had full IRS recognition as a tax free entity.

> There were also other attempts at starting organizations. I can't

> remember the names of any of them but none of them survived. Legally,

> EMSAT is a legitimate, legal, organization. It is a private

> organization as are most corporations, but it's no different from the

> Red Cross, the Salvation Army, or the Catholic Church. It is a

> charitable corporatioin.

>

> 3. EMSAT's mission was to monitor the actions of the legislature and

> what was then the Texas Department of Health to see what was going on

> and make sure that the interests of the rank and file EMS provider

> were promoted and protected. It also tried to do some other things

> like offer CE, insurance, and so forth, but its primary purpose was as

> a watchdog for EMS providers and as a lobbyist at the legislature.

>

> 4. After it got started, it had enough members to hire a legislative

> lobbyist to track legislation that could effect EMS, to work to kill

> legislation that was detrimental to EMS, and to promote legislation

> that was friendly to EMS. Without going into details, EMSAT was

> successful in killing a number of bills that would have been harmful

> to EMS. This was done by an organization that never achieved even 1%

> of the 50,000+ certificants in Texas.

>

> Why do Texas EMS people not want to join an organization that makes

> sense for them and costs little? There are many reasons. Big city

> firefighter EMS folks are generally union members, and they feel that

> their union takes care of their needs. They see themselves as members

> of their department, not as members of the Texas EMS family. So they

> see no reason to join. Others feel that they cannot afford the dues

> ($35) although the routinely spend that on pizza and beer. Others are

> simply not interested in what happens to them. Their motto is " Go with

> the flow. " If the state decides that chimpanzees can be EMTs, so be it.

>

> 5. One of the major failings was not having an office with a paid

> full-time person to answer the phone, keep books, handle memberships,

> write correspondence, and so forth. There simply was never enough

> money to do that. That probably was the one greatest thing that held

> EMSAT back. It's the old problem, you can't get eggs till you have

> chickens, but if you can't afford a chicken, you can't have any eggs.

>

> 6. Attempts were made to hire part-time people to work from home

> handling the business and contacts with members. One such individual

> was a disaster, while another did her best to keep things running and

> for a time improved the situation but, once again, the money was just

> not there due to lack of memberships.

>

> 7. Why won't people join EMSAT? There are many answers, but the number

> one reason is apathy. Many folks never knew about EMSAT, or if they

> did had a skewed understanding of what it did, or simply didn't see it

> as worth $35. When I was on the board, the most frequent question I

> got from prospective members was, " What's in it for me? " The second

> most frequent was " What has EMSAT done? " I thought I had good

> explanations for both those questions, but there seemed to be a notion

> that EMSAT had never done anything meaningful. Most folks do not

> follow the actions of the legislature and simply do not appreciate all

> the near misses EMSAT avoided through its lobbying activities and the

> bad things it helped keep from happening. That's a part of apathy.

>

> So people refused to join because they didn't think EMSAT had done

> anything, but EMSAT was hampered by not having enough revenue from

> memberships to maintain a staff and a lobbyist, so its lobbying

> efforts eventually failed, and it eventually reached its present state

> as a non-functional organization. For an organization to be able to

> make a difference, it has to have money. There has to be some trust

> somewhere. Some will say that EMSAT squandered its trust, and to an

> extent, that's true, because it has not always been responsive to

> members and prospective members, but again, without money, you can't

> do those things.

>

> 8. Throughout, as with any organization, there have been internecine

> spats among the board and the members, which didn't help, but in my

> judgment didn't sink the organization. What sunk the organization was

> lack of membership.

>

> 9. My comments are not meant to criticize ANYBODY. Ron Houssecker gave

> his heart and soul to EMSAT and to EMS. I know him well, and while I

> have not always agreed with him, I will defend until the death his

> dedication to EMS. The present President, Louis Molino, has done his

> best to keep things going. One man with a full-time job cannot run an

> organization like EMSAT and do anything but try to keep it from

> sliding under the waves.

>

> 10. Can EMSAT be salvaged? I doubt it. If only 500 people would join,

> it would be on solid footing once again, but if 500 people tried to

> join right now, I don't know how they would do it. Who would the

> contact to join? Who would process their memberships? Perhaps Lou can

> clarify this.

>

> 11. Texas NEEDS an organization like EMSAT. If all 50,000 of our

> certified/licensed personnel were members, do not think that the Texas

> Legislature would not listen to us.

>

> Case in point. I'm a lawyer, and I belong to the Texas Bar

> Association. I have no choice. I MUST belong and pay dues or I can't

> practice law. What do I get? Some lawyers say not much, but the TBA is

> one of the most powerful lobbying organizations in the state. It has

> the ear of the legislature, big time.

>

> At EMSAT we once debated different ideas to increase membership, one

> of which was some way to link membership in EMSAT to certification.

> When I pay my annual Bar dues (well, now that I'm over 70 I don't have

> to pay them anymore), I automatically pay my dues to the Texas Bar.

> Perhaps some such arrangement might work for EMSAT. But don't hold

> your breath.

>

> I expect that if such a thing was proposed, there would be Tea Parties

> all over the place, and the proposal would quickly die.

>

> Bottom line: EMS folks are like cats. You love them or hate them, but

> you can't herd them.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP, NREMT-P

> EMS Education and Consulting

> Tucson, AZ

>

> Re: EMSAT

>

> Ok, you two, we can all point fingers at each other, but what good

> will that do? Maybe this right here is why EMSAT is no more, too much

> fighting among ourselves and over the way an association should be

> run. This only shows that we as a group of EMS personnel can't even

> get along long enough to help EMS in Texas. We all have our views and

> opinions on what we want EMS in Texas to be. We also know that the

> next person may not see it the way we do, or they may see something

> totally different then someone else.

>

> I'm not a member of EMSAT, but tried to be after the last EMS

> Conference, but the address was not accepting mail. If you want to

> re-organize this group, then maybe new people need to take it over. As

> long as we fight among ourselves, no one will want to join.

>

> Just my $0.02 worth.

>

> Wayne

>

>

> > >

> > > > Anyone know if EMSAT is still going? If so, what projects do they

> > > > have going

> > > > at this time?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance,

> > > >

> > > > Neil

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Neil White, RN, LP

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >