Re: [texasems-L]

[Guest guest]

That is true in most states. The flip side is that it means that under

these BNE rules, nurses may NOT give directions to paramedics over the radio or

phone, even under protocols....seems that many base hospitals manage to

work around that problem.

This is one reason why many facilities either staff students to paramedics

already on duty in the ED or have them work directly with a (willing)

physician.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 09:55:28 Central Daylight Time,

turnbow31@... writes:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating

that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to

" look around the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting

please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

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n-US:WM_HMP:042010_3)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

That is true in most states. The flip side is that it means that under

these BNE rules, nurses may NOT give directions to paramedics over the radio or

phone, even under protocols....seems that many base hospitals manage to

work around that problem.

This is one reason why many facilities either staff students to paramedics

already on duty in the ED or have them work directly with a (willing)

physician.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 09:55:28 Central Daylight Time,

turnbow31@... writes:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating

that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to

" look around the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting

please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

_http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://www.whttp://www.winhttp://www.htt

p://wwhttp://wwwhttp://w_

(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:e\

n-US:WM_HMP:042010_3)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

That is true in most states. The flip side is that it means that under

these BNE rules, nurses may NOT give directions to paramedics over the radio or

phone, even under protocols....seems that many base hospitals manage to

work around that problem.

This is one reason why many facilities either staff students to paramedics

already on duty in the ED or have them work directly with a (willing)

physician.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 09:55:28 Central Daylight Time,

turnbow31@... writes:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating

that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to

" look around the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting

please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

_http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://www.whttp://www.winhttp://www.htt

p://wwhttp://wwwhttp://w_

(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:e\

n-US:WM_HMP:042010_3)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

some states consider that delegation. I had this conversation with the

Louisiana Board of Nursing some years ago, when a couple of bright, aggressive

LPNs wanted to take ACLS (they were also awaiting slots in the LPN to RN

bridge course, were off the days in question, and often worked the ED at

night when we were short staffed on RNs).

I was told in no uncertain terms that an RN could not delegate IV push

medications to an LPN, even if said LPN was otherwise IV certified and ACLS

qualified, and both were operating under ACLS protocols approved by the

medical staff and hospital board.

When I asked if the LPN could give an IV push medication under the direct

supervision of a physician, there was much hemming and hawwing before the

BoN reluctantly admitted that as long as the physician was (physically)

present, the LPN could legally follow physician orders, even to the point of

pushing emergency medications.

Had much the same conversation with another BoN reference paramedics

working in the ED, with the same results.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 10:39:16 Central Daylight Time,

richhenkel@... writes:

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

_http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://www.whttp://www.winhttp://www._

(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:)

ON:WL:en-US:ON:WL:en-US:

family:courier

ne>******** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****This

electronic transmission contains information from Methodist HealthSystem and should be considered confidential and privileged. Theinformation contained in the above messages is intended only for theuse

of the

individual(s) and entity(ies) named above. If you are not theintended

recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution,or

use of this information is prohibited. If you receive this

transmission< in error, please notify the sender immediately by return

e-mail.Methodist Health System, its subsidiaries and affiliates hereby claim allapplicable privileges related to the transmission of this communication.< pre>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

some states consider that delegation. I had this conversation with the

Louisiana Board of Nursing some years ago, when a couple of bright, aggressive

LPNs wanted to take ACLS (they were also awaiting slots in the LPN to RN

bridge course, were off the days in question, and often worked the ED at

night when we were short staffed on RNs).

I was told in no uncertain terms that an RN could not delegate IV push

medications to an LPN, even if said LPN was otherwise IV certified and ACLS

qualified, and both were operating under ACLS protocols approved by the

medical staff and hospital board.

When I asked if the LPN could give an IV push medication under the direct

supervision of a physician, there was much hemming and hawwing before the

BoN reluctantly admitted that as long as the physician was (physically)

present, the LPN could legally follow physician orders, even to the point of

pushing emergency medications.

Had much the same conversation with another BoN reference paramedics

working in the ED, with the same results.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 10:39:16 Central Daylight Time,

richhenkel@... writes:

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

_http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://www.whttp://www.winhttp://www._

(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:)

ON:WL:en-US:ON:WL:en-US:

family:courier

ne>******** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****This

electronic transmission contains information from Methodist HealthSystem and should be considered confidential and privileged. Theinformation contained in the above messages is intended only for theuse

of the

individual(s) and entity(ies) named above. If you are not theintended

recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution,or

use of this information is prohibited. If you receive this

transmission< in error, please notify the sender immediately by return

e-mail.Methodist Health System, its subsidiaries and affiliates hereby claim allapplicable privileges related to the transmission of this communication.< pre>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

some states consider that delegation. I had this conversation with the

Louisiana Board of Nursing some years ago, when a couple of bright, aggressive

LPNs wanted to take ACLS (they were also awaiting slots in the LPN to RN

bridge course, were off the days in question, and often worked the ED at

night when we were short staffed on RNs).

I was told in no uncertain terms that an RN could not delegate IV push

medications to an LPN, even if said LPN was otherwise IV certified and ACLS

qualified, and both were operating under ACLS protocols approved by the

medical staff and hospital board.

When I asked if the LPN could give an IV push medication under the direct

supervision of a physician, there was much hemming and hawwing before the

BoN reluctantly admitted that as long as the physician was (physically)

present, the LPN could legally follow physician orders, even to the point of

pushing emergency medications.

Had much the same conversation with another BoN reference paramedics

working in the ED, with the same results.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 10:39:16 Central Daylight Time,

richhenkel@... writes:

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: _texasems-l@yahoogrotexasem_ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email _turnbow31@..._ (mailto:turnbow31@...)

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

_http://www.windowslhttp://www.windohttp://www.whttp://www.winhttp://www._

(http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:)

ON:WL:en-US:ON:WL:en-US:

family:courier

ne>******** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****This

electronic transmission contains information from Methodist HealthSystem and should be considered confidential and privileged. Theinformation contained in the above messages is intended only for theuse

of the

individual(s) and entity(ies) named above. If you are not theintended

recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution,or

use of this information is prohibited. If you receive this

transmission< in error, please notify the sender immediately by return

e-mail.Methodist Health System, its subsidiaries and affiliates hereby claim allapplicable privileges related to the transmission of this communication.< pre>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

I think it's semantics most likely. It's probably correct that a nurse can't

delegate something they were delegated, but offhand, I can't see why a physician

would need to use a nurse as a middleman for the medication administration. In

other words, the ER doc could authorize a RN or a paramedic student to

administer the med.

On a tangent, this illustrates part of why I think EMS clinicals in the hospital

should be physician directed as opposed to being nurse directed. Not just to

eliminate some of the BNE bugaboos, but because EMS providers, like physicians

and unlike nurses, exercise independent judgement and decision-making without

having to wait for an " order. "

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/Lic.P.

-Austin, Texas

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question and

would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating that the

BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to " look around

the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting please let me

know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email turnbow31@...

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\

-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

[Guest guest]

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email turnbow31@...

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:

ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

[Guest guest]

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email turnbow31@...

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:

ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

[Guest guest]

The Paramedic students medication administration is being supervised by

the nurse, not delegated by the nurse.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of brandon turnbow

Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject:

Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question

and would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not

allowing Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility

stating that the BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice.

The ask me to " look around the state to see how its handled there " So if

you have anyhting please let me know. Thanks

Bt

Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

2617 76th Street

Lubbock Texas, 79423

Cell

Home

Email turnbow31@...

__________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:

ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

[Guest guest]

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better word)

it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they were not

properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse maybe?? Seems

like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic students would be

allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the task as it would

be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was stated earlier

semantics!?!. Just out of curiosity can nursing students as medical students

give meds, do you know?

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

>

> Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question and

would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating that the

BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to " look around

the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting please let me

know. Thanks

>

>

>

> Bt

>

>

>

>

> Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

> 2617 76th Street

> Lubbock Texas, 79423

> Cell

> Home

> Email turnbow31@...

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

>

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\

-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

>

>

[Guest guest]

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better word)

it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they were not

properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse maybe?? Seems

like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic students would be

allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the task as it would

be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was stated earlier

semantics!?!. Just out of curiosity can nursing students as medical students

give meds, do you know?

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

>

> Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question and

would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating that the

BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to " look around

the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting please let me

know. Thanks

>

>

>

> Bt

>

>

>

>

> Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

> 2617 76th Street

> Lubbock Texas, 79423

> Cell

> Home

> Email turnbow31@...

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

>

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\

-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

>

>

[Guest guest]

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better word)

it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they were not

properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse maybe?? Seems

like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic students would be

allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the task as it would

be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was stated earlier

semantics!?!. Just out of curiosity can nursing students as medical students

give meds, do you know?

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

>

> Hey gang hope all is well in ur neck of the EMS world. I have a question and

would APPRECIATE any insight into this. A local hospital is not allowing

Paramedic students to administer medications in their facility stating that the

BNE does not allow nurses to delegate this practice. The ask me to " look around

the state to see how its handled there " So if you have anyhting please let me

know. Thanks

>

>

>

> Bt

>

>

>

>

> Turnbow, NREMT-P, CCEMTP

> 2617 76th Street

> Lubbock Texas, 79423

> Cell

> Home

> Email turnbow31@...

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

>

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\

-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

>

>

[Guest guest]

In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

physician who is a nursing instructor).

Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

'supervised' by a nurse.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the

task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

" ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

[Guest guest]

In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

physician who is a nursing instructor).

Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

'supervised' by a nurse.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the

task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

" ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

[Guest guest]

In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

physician who is a nursing instructor).

Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

'supervised' by a nurse.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating the

task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

" ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

[Guest guest]

it depends.

Some hospital policies allow nurses to precept medic students doing

rotations in the ED, OR or ICU using one of several quirks in the BoN

regulations. Many hospitals treat Basic students under the same policies as

other

" Unlicensed Assistive Personnel " (Nursing Assistant, Medical Assistant)

students.

Often hospitals require a medic preceptor on station for the medic

students. Others have cooperating physicians (often the department/class

medical

director or one of the assistant medical directors) precept directly.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 18:19:06 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do

it? I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be

present for paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard

on my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2010, at 15:08, _krin135@..._ (mailto:krin135@...)

wrote:

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by

their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by

their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year

resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> _aggiesrwe03@aggies_ (mailto:aggiesrwe03@...) writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because

they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then

paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be

delegating the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?! stated earlier semantics!?! Makes me

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it depends.

Some hospital policies allow nurses to precept medic students doing

rotations in the ED, OR or ICU using one of several quirks in the BoN

regulations. Many hospitals treat Basic students under the same policies as

other

" Unlicensed Assistive Personnel " (Nursing Assistant, Medical Assistant)

students.

Often hospitals require a medic preceptor on station for the medic

students. Others have cooperating physicians (often the department/class

medical

director or one of the assistant medical directors) precept directly.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 18:19:06 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do

it? I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be

present for paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard

on my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2010, at 15:08, _krin135@..._ (mailto:krin135@...)

wrote:

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by

their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by

their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year

resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> _aggiesrwe03@aggies_ (mailto:aggiesrwe03@...) writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because

they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then

paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be

delegating the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?! stated earlier semantics!?! Makes me

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it depends.

Some hospital policies allow nurses to precept medic students doing

rotations in the ED, OR or ICU using one of several quirks in the BoN

regulations. Many hospitals treat Basic students under the same policies as

other

" Unlicensed Assistive Personnel " (Nursing Assistant, Medical Assistant)

students.

Often hospitals require a medic preceptor on station for the medic

students. Others have cooperating physicians (often the department/class

medical

director or one of the assistant medical directors) precept directly.

ck

In a message dated 4/29/2010 18:19:06 Central Daylight Time,

aggiesrwe03@... writes:

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do

it? I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be

present for paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard

on my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2010, at 15:08, _krin135@..._ (mailto:krin135@...)

wrote:

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by

their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by

their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year

resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> _aggiesrwe03@aggies_ (mailto:aggiesrwe03@...) writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because

they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then

paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be

delegating the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?! stated earlier semantics!?! Makes me

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do it?

I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be present for

paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> aggiesrwe03@... writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating

the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do it?

I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be present for

paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> aggiesrwe03@... writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating

the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guess that's where I'm confused then why can a nurse not supervise a medic

student or could the paramedic instructor if he is mentoring the student do it?

I know several hospitals in the Houston area require a mentor to be present for

paramedic students and basic students alike

-Chris

Sorry for the spelling and punctuation this was typed on the tiny keyboard on my

iPhone

> In general, nursing students may give medications when signed off by their

> instructor and supervised by an appropriate nurse (or, occasionally,

> physician who is a nursing instructor).

>

> Medical Students generally only give medications when supervised by their

> instructing (licensed) physician- usually at least a second year resident,

> sometimes a fellow or full attending, depending on the situation.

>

> It's vanishingly rare for a medical student to give medications when

> 'supervised' by a nurse.

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 4/29/2010 13:43:56 Central Daylight Time,

> aggiesrwe03@... writes:

>

> Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't " ruin " (for lack of better

> word) it by administering either the wrong medication or dose because they

> were not properly supervised and they are using BNE rules as am excuse

> maybe?? Seems like to me that if there is proper supervision then paramedic

> students would be allowed to give meds as it wouldn't so much be delegating

the

> task as it would be an extension of that nurses hand so to speak, as was

> stated earlier semantics!?!Makes me wonder if a paramedic student didn't

> " ruin " (for lack of better word) it by a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kenny,

Thanks for letting us know this. While I did not know Jack personally,

Bass is a former student and friend and a wonderful lady. Unfortunately I have

lost contact with her over the years.

If anybody can send 's contact information I would like to be able to send

my condolences directly to her.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

EMS Educator

Chief Jack Colley

Quotes from a dynamic, dedicated, caring leader; a true statesman:

“This is Jack Colley at the State Operations Center, thank you for being on

this callâ€

“Thank all of you for what you do for Texas, Jackâ€

“If you ask Jack Colley what is your number one priority, I will tell you that

it is to assure that every Texan is safe from harm in all disastersâ€

We were notified at 5:36 p.m. this date that Chief Jack Colley passed away

shortly after lunch today. He passed away very peacefully. The message was

delivered to Director Steve McGraw and Bass by Jack’s son, Chris.

Steve McCraw will make an official announcement to Jack’s employees and to the

public later today.

There is no information on services or funeral arrangements at this time, and it

may be awhile before we are informed of this information.

I wish to thank all of you for your understanding, prayers, and support for the

past week and half while we were all waiting for information on Chief Colley’s

condition. So many emails, phone calls, and personal contacts confirming your

concern and prayers were very much appreciated.

Please continue to remember Jack’s family in your prayers

Please continue your support as we go through this transitional period. Jack

made a positive impression on our division, and I suspect little will change for

quite awhile.

My last email from Jack on 04/28/10 “tks Jimmyâ€

Jimmie L. Badgett

Regional Liaison Officer 1A

Texas Division of Emergency Management

350 West Interstate 30

Garland, Texas 75043

Office phone:

Cell phone:

jimmie.badgett@...

[Guest guest]

Oh that is terrible. I am feel so bad for and for Jack's other family.

, if you are on here somewhere, please let me know if there is anything I

can do for you.

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l

From: wegandy@...

Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 00:40:23 -0400

Subject: Re:

Kenny,

Thanks for letting us know this. While I did not know Jack personally,

Bass is a former student and friend and a wonderful lady. Unfortunately I have

lost contact with her over the years.

If anybody can send 's contact information I would like to be able to send

my condolences directly to her.

Gene Gandy, JD, LP

EMS Educator

Chief Jack Colley

Quotes from a dynamic, dedicated, caring leader; a true statesman:

“This is Jack Colley at the State Operations Center, thank you for being on this

call”

“Thank all of you for what you do for Texas, Jack”

“If you ask Jack Colley what is your number one priority, I will tell you that

it is to assure that every Texan is safe from harm in all disasters”

We were notified at 5:36 p.m. this date that Chief Jack Colley passed away

shortly after lunch today. He passed away very peacefully. The message was

delivered to Director Steve McGraw and Bass by Jack’s son, Chris.

Steve McCraw will make an official announcement to Jack’s employees and to the

public later today.

There is no information on services or funeral arrangements at this time, and it

may be awhile before we are informed of this information.

I wish to thank all of you for your understanding, prayers, and support for the

past week and half while we were all waiting for information on Chief Colley’s

condition. So many emails, phone calls, and personal contacts confirming your

concern and prayers were very much appreciated.

Please continue to remember Jack’s family in your prayers

Please continue your support as we go through this transitional period. Jack

made a positive impression on our division, and I suspect little will change for

quite awhile.

My last email from Jack on 04/28/10 “tks Jimmy”

Jimmie L. Badgett

Regional Liaison Officer 1A

Texas Division of Emergency Management

350 West Interstate 30

Garland, Texas 75043

Office phone:

Cell phone:

jimmie.badgett@...

[Guest guest]

They are made and marketed by Physio-Control.

Wes Ogilvie

Sent from my iPhone

>

> Does any body know a representative for the lucas chest compression system

here in Texas? Is so, I would appreciate any help available. Thank you..

>

> Mr. Ruiz

>

>