Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now EMTEducation)

March 8, 2011

It's not in many states.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Training Program Manager

Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

> WHAT????? Ok,.....I must be missing something here. Is Driver's Ed. no longer

required to get a TDL?

>

> I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

> You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> AMR

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

>

> EMT

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Education)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Can anyone name any Service in Texas that requires a behind the wheel

>

> EVOC

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Course before a person at any level can operate an ambulance?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

March 8, 2011

It's not in many states.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Training Program Manager

Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

> WHAT????? Ok,.....I must be missing something here. Is Driver's Ed. no longer

required to get a TDL?

>

> I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

> You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> AMR

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

>

> EMT

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Education)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>> Can anyone name any Service in Texas that requires a behind the wheel

>

> EVOC

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Course before a person at any level can operate an ambulance?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

March 8, 2011

Ah not since 2002. College Station is home.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Training Program Manager

Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

> Oh wait.....you are in Jersey......never mind.

>

> I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

> You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Coug,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> great

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

>

> 110%

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> that

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

>

> vast

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMT may

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> researched,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

>

> is

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

>

> and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> 1,000

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> routine on a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

>

> CEVO

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

>

> serve the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

>

> that ALL

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

>

> (and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> vans)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> situations.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

>

> situations, I

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> would

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Army

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> weapons

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

>

> whatever

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> people

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

>

> civilian EMT

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

>

> attention

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

>

> help.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> If

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> seek out

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

>

> are

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> happy

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> paycheck,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> constant

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

>

> Getting

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> those

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> different

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Springfield

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

March 8, 2011

Ah not since 2002. College Station is home.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Training Program Manager

Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

LNMolino@...

Lou@...

> Oh wait.....you are in Jersey......never mind.

>

> I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

> You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Coug,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> great

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

>

> 110%

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> that

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

>

> vast

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMT may

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> researched,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

>

> is

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

>

> and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> 1,000

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> routine on a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

>

> CEVO

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

>

> serve the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

>

> that ALL

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

>

> (and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> vans)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> situations.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

>

> situations, I

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> would

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Army

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> weapons

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

>

> whatever

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> people

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

>

> civilian EMT

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

>

> attention

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

>

> help.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> If

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> seek out

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

>

> are

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> happy

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> paycheck,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> constant

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

>

> Getting

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> those

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> different

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Springfield

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

March 8, 2011

Up until very recently, the only requirement to get a DL in texas for those that

were over the age of 18, was pass the written and driving test. I believe now

the age has gone up to like 21. When I got my TXDL at 16 I had to take a

Drivers Ed class at a state approved driving school. Now they let parents teach

drivers ed. My brother who got his license at 18 never took drivers ed.

W Vondran EMT-P

To: texasems-l

From: ems_cougar@...

Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0800

Subject: Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

EMTEducation)

WHAT????? Ok,.....I must be missing something here. Is Driver's Ed. no longer

required to get a TDL?

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMT¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÐ just my guess) of the Houston EMT¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMT¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMT¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMT¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and can¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 8, 2011

Up until very recently, the only requirement to get a DL in texas for those that

were over the age of 18, was pass the written and driving test. I believe now

the age has gone up to like 21. When I got my TXDL at 16 I had to take a

Drivers Ed class at a state approved driving school. Now they let parents teach

drivers ed. My brother who got his license at 18 never took drivers ed.

W Vondran EMT-P

To: texasems-l

From: ems_cougar@...

Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0800

Subject: Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

EMTEducation)

WHAT????? Ok,.....I must be missing something here. Is Driver's Ed. no longer

required to get a TDL?

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMT¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÐ just my guess) of the Houston EMT¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMT¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMT¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMT¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and can¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 8, 2011

Up until very recently, the only requirement to get a DL in texas for those that

were over the age of 18, was pass the written and driving test. I believe now

the age has gone up to like 21. When I got my TXDL at 16 I had to take a

Drivers Ed class at a state approved driving school. Now they let parents teach

drivers ed. My brother who got his license at 18 never took drivers ed.

W Vondran EMT-P

To: texasems-l

From: ems_cougar@...

Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:05:31 -0800

Subject: Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

EMTEducation)

WHAT????? Ok,.....I must be missing something here. Is Driver's Ed. no longer

required to get a TDL?

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMT¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÐ just my guess) of the Houston EMT¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMT¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMT¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMT¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and can¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 8, 2011

My 16 year old is being " Parent Taught " this summer. I have found that a lot

of high schools don't even have driver's ed anymore. TxDPS told me that they

prefer to have young drivers parent taught as it puts more responsibility on

the family and off the school.

Jay T.

Conroe, TX

RE: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

EMTEducation)

Up until very recently, the only requirement to get a DL in texas for those

that were over the age of 18, was pass the written and driving test. I

believe now the age has gone up to like 21. When I got my TXDL at 16 I had

to take a Drivers Ed class at a state approved driving school. Now they let

parents teach drivers ed. My brother who got his license at 18 never took

drivers ed.

W Vondran EMT-P

March 8, 2011

My 16 year old is being " Parent Taught " this summer. I have found that a lot

of high schools don't even have driver's ed anymore. TxDPS told me that they

prefer to have young drivers parent taught as it puts more responsibility on

the family and off the school.

Jay T.

Conroe, TX

RE: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now

EMTEducation)

Up until very recently, the only requirement to get a DL in texas for those

that were over the age of 18, was pass the written and driving test. I

believe now the age has gone up to like 21. When I got my TXDL at 16 I had

to take a Drivers Ed class at a state approved driving school. Now they let

parents teach drivers ed. My brother who got his license at 18 never took

drivers ed.

W Vondran EMT-P

March 8, 2011

Emergency Vehicle Operations by Lindsey and published by Brady is

about as " generic " as I've found.

VFIS has great stuff for their insured's.

CEVO Ambulance with behind the wheel is OK overall but can be cookie

cutter if the Instructor is lazy (as can anything canned.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

In a message dated 3/8/2011 1:10:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ems_cougar@... writes:

I have looked and looked and looked, for EVOC manuals,.... text books, I

cannot find them. I want something that is specific to EMS and concerning

ambulances and how to drive them,... I have found nothing. I did find a few

about POLICE EVOC, but.....I seriously doubt that an ambulance will ever

need to throw it in reverse, hit the gas, turn the wheel, jam it into drive

and then hit the gas again.

Any ideas? I would love to get hold of those old videos from P&S.

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 8, 2011

Emergency Vehicle Operations by Lindsey and published by Brady is

about as " generic " as I've found.

VFIS has great stuff for their insured's.

CEVO Ambulance with behind the wheel is OK overall but can be cookie

cutter if the Instructor is lazy (as can anything canned.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

In a message dated 3/8/2011 1:10:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ems_cougar@... writes:

I have looked and looked and looked, for EVOC manuals,.... text books, I

cannot find them. I want something that is specific to EMS and concerning

ambulances and how to drive them,... I have found nothing. I did find a few

about POLICE EVOC, but.....I seriously doubt that an ambulance will ever

need to throw it in reverse, hit the gas, turn the wheel, jam it into drive

and then hit the gas again.

Any ideas? I would love to get hold of those old videos from P&S.

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 8, 2011

Emergency Vehicle Operations by Lindsey and published by Brady is

about as " generic " as I've found.

VFIS has great stuff for their insured's.

CEVO Ambulance with behind the wheel is OK overall but can be cookie

cutter if the Instructor is lazy (as can anything canned.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

In a message dated 3/8/2011 1:10:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ems_cougar@... writes:

I have looked and looked and looked, for EVOC manuals,.... text books, I

cannot find them. I want something that is specific to EMS and concerning

ambulances and how to drive them,... I have found nothing. I did find a few

about POLICE EVOC, but.....I seriously doubt that an ambulance will ever

need to throw it in reverse, hit the gas, turn the wheel, jam it into drive

and then hit the gas again.

Any ideas? I would love to get hold of those old videos from P&S.

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>>

>

>>>> Coug,

>

>>>>

>

>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

> great

>

>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

110%

>

> that

>

>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

vast

>

>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

the

>

> EMT may

>

>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

> researched,

>

>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

is

>

> spent

>

>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

and

>

> 1,000

>

>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

> routine on a

>

>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

CEVO

>

>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

serve the

>

>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

that ALL

>

> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

(and

>

> vans)

>

>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

> situations.

>

>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

situations, I

>

> would

>

>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

the

>

> Army

>

>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

to

>

>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

> weapons

>

>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

whatever

>

> people

>

>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

civilian EMT

>

>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

attention

>

> spent

>

>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

help.

>

> If

>

>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

to

>

> seek out

>

>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

are

>

> happy

>

>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

> paycheck,

>

>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

> constant

>

>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

Getting

>

> the

>

>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

> those

>

>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

> different

>

>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>>>

>

>>>> Springfield

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

>

>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>>>

>

>>>>

March 9, 2011

OH!! Your up there with Dr. Saylak, cool!

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom and my MONEY,

You can keep the " CHANGE. "

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Coug,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I don't often post here, but do monitor the list daily. You have some

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> great

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> points I want to discuss. Namely, EVOC in EMT school. I also believe

>

> 110%

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> that

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> EVOC should be a part of EMT curriculum. In my experience, EMTÂ¹s do a

>

> vast

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> majority of the driving in EMS. Depending on the staffing scenario,

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMT may

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> well be driving all the time. I would estimate that about 75% (not

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> researched,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> not qualified by any studiesÃ just my guess) of the Houston EMTÂ¹s day

>

> is

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> driving the truck. Seems silly to spend months going through a course

>

> and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> 1,000

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> + page EMT text and still lack the skill to handle 75% of the daily

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> routine on a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> truck. Several of the better services in Houston do mandate EVOC or

>

> CEVO

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> courses for all of their drivers, so that helps. Still, it would

>

> serve the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> entire industry well to add this to the EMT curriculum and insure

>

> that ALL

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> EMTÂ¹s

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are actually trained to drive those massive, heavy, unwieldy boxes

>

> (and

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> vans)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> through technically challenging and sometimes adrenaline-pumping

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> situations.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Everyone, EMS and the general public would be safer.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Concerning the ability of most EMTÂ¹s to handle a variety of

>

> situations, I

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> would

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> say that depends. Personally, my past experience as a combat medic in

>

> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Army

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Reserve has served me exceptionally well. Training to triage and tend

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> multiple wounded soldiers as the sole medic while under the stress of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> weapons

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> fire, grenades, explosive devices, etc. made an MVA (or MVC, or

>

> whatever

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> people

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> are calling it today) seem pretty cut and dry. I highly doubt

>

> civilian EMT

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> instructors have those resources available, but extra time and

>

> attention

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> spent

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> on scenario based training with moulaged patients goes a long way to

>

> help.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> If

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> they do not get this kind of training during their course, they need

>

> to

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> seek out

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> some ITLS, PHTLS, or other courses and participate.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> For those EMTÂ¹s who get into EMS for whatever reason and decide they

>

> are

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> happy

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> scraping by with the bare minimum of knowledge and just show up for a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> paycheck,

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> I have no tolerance. This is an extremely dynamic industry requiring

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> constant

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> education to stay on top of changes that improve patient outcomes.

>

> Getting

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> the

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> mandated CE to recertify does not cut it. I have worked with plenty of

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> those

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> types and canÂ¹t encourage them to go find a higher paying job in a

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> different

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> industry fast enough.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> OK, getting off my soap box, too.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> Springfield

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>> ------------------------------------

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>>>

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Re: RE: Ambulance Companies Say Medicare... (Now EMTEducation)

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