Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? Sent from my iPhone > I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. > > My favorite part: > > Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > > What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? Sent from my iPhone > I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. > > My favorite part: > > Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > > What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. > > I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > > > > > > > > > Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >> >> My favorite part: >> >> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >> >> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >> >> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Alyssa: You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. -Wes Ogilvie Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. > > I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > > > > > > > > > Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >> >> My favorite part: >> >> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >> >> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >> >> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. The Counselors will correct me I am sure but SHALL is a VERY STRONG legal word. My non legal reading of SHALL HONOR tells me if I have a valid TX OOH DNR and you do NOT HONOR it and you get hauled in front of the man in black and the 12 that were not able to get out of Jury Duty you but is likely in a sling. Counsels feel free to school me. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World (www.fireworld.com) LNMolino@... Lou@... (IFW/FSS Office) (IFW/FSS Fax) (Cell Phone) IFW/FSS Office Address: 540 Graham Road, College Station, Texas 77845 IFW/FSS Mailing Address: Post Office Box 9161, College Station, Texas 77842 In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:25:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amwoods8644@... writes: The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > (210) 842-6428 > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 This is consistent with Arizona law, which essentially says the same thing, but reinforces it by requiring that any OOH-DNR be written on ORANGE paper, or if a bracelet or wallet card is used, that they be ORANGE as well. Therefore, it is not likely that crews will run into any sort of a directive that would be questionable. The form is easily recognizable and familiar to medics who work in the field. Perhaps this would be a good things for Texas to adopt. It's about the only thing good about AZ EMS. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 The wording of the original bill (which I was looking at) did not include anything saying we should honor DNRs. Just said we could NOT honor any sort of written directive (which I assume would include a DNR, as it is written and is directive). Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone > SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. > > The Counselors will correct me I am sure but SHALL is a VERY STRONG legal > word. > > My non legal reading of SHALL HONOR tells me if I have a valid TX OOH DNR > and you do NOT HONOR it and you get hauled in front of the man in black and > the 12 that were not able to get out of Jury Duty you but is likely in a > sling. > > Counsels feel free to school me. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. > (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) > > Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World > (www.fireworld.com) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > (IFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/FSS Fax) > (Cell Phone) > > IFW/FSS Office Address: > 540 Graham Road, > College Station, Texas 77845 > > IFW/FSS Mailing Address: > Post Office Box 9161, > College Station, Texas 77842 > > In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:25:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > amwoods8644@... writes: > > The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. > > After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. > > (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued > out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device > in accordance with this subchapter; and > (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or > honor a person's other written directive, including a written > directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > Alyssa: > > > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at > the whole bill. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not > specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or > honor any written directives. > > > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB > 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and > further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced > directives. > >> > >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal > casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, > especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > >> > >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> > >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not > following it, House Bill 577 passed. > >>> > >>> My favorite part: > >>> > >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > >>> > >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to > honor it? > >>> > >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 That the way I understand it also. We still honor OOH DNR, but others we don't have to. Sent from my iPhone > I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. > > I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > > -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > > > > > > > > > Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >> >> My favorite part: >> >> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >> >> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >> >> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Besides you! Mg From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wegandy Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:39 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: House Bill 577 This is consistent with Arizona law, which essentially says the same thing, but reinforces it by requiring that any OOH-DNR be written on ORANGE paper, or if a bracelet or wallet card is used, that they be ORANGE as well. Therefore, it is not likely that crews will run into any sort of a directive that would be questionable. The form is easily recognizable and familiar to medics who work in the field. Perhaps this would be a good things for Texas to adopt. It's about the only thing good about AZ EMS. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... > wrote: > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@... > wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 18:32, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... > wrote: >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Besides you! Mg From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wegandy Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:39 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: House Bill 577 This is consistent with Arizona law, which essentially says the same thing, but reinforces it by requiring that any OOH-DNR be written on ORANGE paper, or if a bracelet or wallet card is used, that they be ORANGE as well. Therefore, it is not likely that crews will run into any sort of a directive that would be questionable. The form is easily recognizable and familiar to medics who work in the field. Perhaps this would be a good things for Texas to adopt. It's about the only thing good about AZ EMS. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... > wrote: > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@... > wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 18:32, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... > wrote: >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 On Wednesday, August 3, 2011 19:32, lnmolino@... said: > SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. If they don't honour mine, they'll get a gentle reminder from my mother. At gunpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Cheers Rob! Hope to see you soon (remember Labor Day.) Wish you'd quit writing like a dadgum Limey. ;~) Donn > Re: House Bill 577 > > On Wednesday, August 3, 2011 19:32, lnmolino@... said: > > > SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. > > If they don't honour mine, they'll get a gentle reminder from > my mother. At gunpoint. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Section (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or > honor a person's other written directive, including a written > directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. I am pretty sure having no duty to act and saying one could not are not the same thing. You are not doing a very good job of interpreting the words used in legal terms. I STRONGLY suggest you pay heed to those with the JD's. It is EASY to get mucked up in the use of words in law. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World (www.fireworld.com) LNMolino@... Lou@... (IFW/FSS Office) (IFW/FSS Fax) (Cell Phone) IFW/FSS Office Address: 540 Graham Road, College Station, Texas 77845 IFW/FSS Mailing Address: Post Office Box 9161, College Station, Texas 77842 In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:50:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amwoods8644@... writes: The wording of the original bill (which I was looking at) did not include anything saying we should honor DNRs. Just said we could NOT honor any sort of written directive (which I assume would include a DNR, as it is written and is directive). Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone > SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. > > The Counselors will correct me I am sure but SHALL is a VERY STRONG legal > word. > > My non legal reading of SHALL HONOR tells me if I have a valid TX OOH DNR > and you do NOT HONOR it and you get hauled in front of the man in black and > the 12 that were not able to get out of Jury Duty you but is likely in a > sling. > > Counsels feel free to school me. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. > (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) > > Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World > (www.fireworld.com) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > (IFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/FSS Fax) > (Cell Phone) > > IFW/FSS Office Address: > 540 Graham Road, > College Station, Texas 77845 > > IFW/FSS Mailing Address: > Post Office Box 9161, > College Station, Texas 77842 > > In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:25:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > amwoods8644@... writes: > > The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. > > After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. > > (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued > out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device > in accordance with this subchapter; and > (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or > honor a person's other written directive, including a written > directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > Alyssa: > > > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at > the whole bill. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not > specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or > honor any written directives. > > > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB > 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and > further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced > directives. > >> > >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal > casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, > especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > >> > >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@...> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> > >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not > following it, House Bill 577 passed. > >>> > >>> My favorite part: > >>> > >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > >>> > >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to > honor it? > >>> > >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Section (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or > honor a person's other written directive, including a written > directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. I am pretty sure having no duty to act and saying one could not are not the same thing. You are not doing a very good job of interpreting the words used in legal terms. I STRONGLY suggest you pay heed to those with the JD's. It is EASY to get mucked up in the use of words in law. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World (www.fireworld.com) LNMolino@... Lou@... (IFW/FSS Office) (IFW/FSS Fax) (Cell Phone) IFW/FSS Office Address: 540 Graham Road, College Station, Texas 77845 IFW/FSS Mailing Address: Post Office Box 9161, College Station, Texas 77842 In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:50:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, amwoods8644@... writes: The wording of the original bill (which I was looking at) did not include anything saying we should honor DNRs. Just said we could NOT honor any sort of written directive (which I assume would include a DNR, as it is written and is directive). Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone > SHALL HONOR means JUST THAT. > > The Counselors will correct me I am sure but SHALL is a VERY STRONG legal > word. > > My non legal reading of SHALL HONOR tells me if I have a valid TX OOH DNR > and you do NOT HONOR it and you get hauled in front of the man in black and > the 12 that were not able to get out of Jury Duty you but is likely in a > sling. > > Counsels feel free to school me. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/EMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant > > Training Program Manager, Fire and Safety Specialists, Inc. > (www.fireandsafetyspecialsits.com) > > Technical Editor, Industrial Fire World > (www.fireworld.com) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > (IFW/FSS Office) > (IFW/FSS Fax) > (Cell Phone) > > IFW/FSS Office Address: > 540 Graham Road, > College Station, Texas 77845 > > IFW/FSS Mailing Address: > Post Office Box 9161, > College Station, Texas 77842 > > In a message dated 8/3/2011 7:25:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > amwoods8644@... writes: > > The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. > > After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. > > (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued > out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device > in accordance with this subchapter; and > (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or > honor a person's other written directive, including a written > directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > Alyssa: > > > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at > the whole bill. > > > > -Wes Ogilvie > > > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not > specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or > honor any written directives. > > > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > > > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB > 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and > further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced > directives. > >> > >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal > casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, > especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. > >> > >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP > >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@...> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> > >> > >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not > following it, House Bill 577 passed. > >>> > >>> My favorite part: > >>> > >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > >>> > >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to > honor it? > >>> > >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 On Wednesday, August 3, 2011 20:34, " D.E. (Donn) " donn@...> said: > Cheers Rob! Hope to see you soon (remember Labor Day.) > > Wish you'd quit writing like a dadgum Limey. ;~) The word is " labour " ! See you there, Bro! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 On Wednesday, August 3, 2011 20:34, " D.E. (Donn) " donn@...> said: > Cheers Rob! Hope to see you soon (remember Labor Day.) > > Wish you'd quit writing like a dadgum Limey. ;~) The word is " labour " ! See you there, Bro! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 On Wednesday, August 3, 2011 20:34, " D.E. (Donn) " donn@...> said: > Cheers Rob! Hope to see you soon (remember Labor Day.) > > Wish you'd quit writing like a dadgum Limey. ;~) The word is " labour " ! See you there, Bro! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Well, Mike, I'm not a player in AZ EMS. Nobody here in AZ knows me or wants to know me. My credentials mean nothing to the locals. Trying to get into the middle of AZ EMS is like trying to penetrate al Qaeda. It's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@... ; > wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 18:32, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Well, Mike, I'm not a player in AZ EMS. Nobody here in AZ knows me or wants to know me. My credentials mean nothing to the locals. Trying to get into the middle of AZ EMS is like trying to penetrate al Qaeda. It's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@... ; > wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 18:32, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Well, Mike, I'm not a player in AZ EMS. Nobody here in AZ knows me or wants to know me. My credentials mean nothing to the locals. Trying to get into the middle of AZ EMS is like trying to penetrate al Qaeda. It's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is. GG Re: House Bill 577 The website I was looking at only had the first version of the bill. After revision, it's nice enough to say that we can only honor OOH DNR's. (1) shall honor only a properly executed or issued out-of-hospital DNR order or prescribed DNR identification device in accordance with this subchapter; and (2) have no duty to review, examine, interpret, or honor a person's other written directive, including a written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > Alyssa: > > You're probably only reading the underlined text. You need to look at the whole bill. > > -Wes Ogilvie > > On Aug 03, 2011, at 07:12 PM, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: > > > > Perhaps I have the wrong version; the version I'm looking at does not specify any special treatment for DNR's, just that we don't have to review or honor any written directives. > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > > > > >> I've read the whole legislation. The entire statute, as modified by HB 577, still states that the OOH DNR is to be honored. It just clarifies and further expands that EMS personnel have no duty to follow other advanced directives. >> >> I'm not your lawyer nor your medical director, but that's my informal casual reading of the bill. It's an art to learn how to read legislation, especially when you're only given bits and pieces of it. >> >> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/LP >> -Not your lawyer (at least not for free) >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 03, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Rick aggietrauma@... ; > wrote: >> >> >> >> Does this include the Texas out of hospital DNR? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 18:32, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@... ; > wrote: >> >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. >>> >>> My favorite part: >>> >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. >>> >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? >>> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 That's a shame Gene, They don't have any idea the wealth of information that they are missing out on. > >> > >>> I know we've talked about it on here, but for those of you not following it, House Bill 577 passed. > >>> > >>> My favorite part: > >>> > >>> Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, > >>> emergency medical services personnel who are providing emergency > >>> prehospital care to a person are not required to review, examine, > >>> interpret, or honor a person's written directive, including a > >>> written directive in the form prescribed by Section 166.033. > >>> > >>> What exactly *is* the point of getting a DNR if they don't have to honor it? > >>> > >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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