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Posted
Posted

Every EMS person in Texas practices without a license since we are not

licensed professionals and that would include LP's. Further more I think tat

is true in many if not most states but it may that some states do indeed

licenses folks but they are the exception.

I'll let the JD's on the list extrapolate if they choose as I would not

want to be accused of practicing law without a licence to but it isn't

semantics it's more fact.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/25/2010 8:54:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

ajl442@... writes:

The Governor issued an executive order on June 4th that waived the

requirement for National Registry certification, however an out of state

EMS

professional must still apply for reciprocity. Practicing as an EMS

professional without a license is against the law in every state including

Louisiana.

I would caution any EMS professional who practices exclusively outside of

any state without a state license. The National Registry is not a license

to practice and there is a statement to this on the back of every National

Registry certification card.

An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

" payday " .

If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you

to

report it to the proper authorities.

AJL

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

abaustin+yahoogroups@...abaustin%2Byahoogroups@...>

> wrote:

>

>

>

> I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

>

> Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to

have

> a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who

don't

> and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if

this

> was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment.

Reciprocity is

> just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I

> could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

>

> Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of

> Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only

thing

> that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with

" best

> practices. "

>

> So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I

> don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are paying,

> $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all

coming

> out of BP's pocket anyway.

>

> Austin

>

>

>

>

> > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> spill

> > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to

Texas

> > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > To: texasems-l <%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>'

> > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > To: jeff.johnson@... <%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com>'

> > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Mr. ,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking

for

> > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time

> but

> > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > predetermined times.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do have a few questions of you:

> >

> > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> >

> > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> >

> > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > FEMA?

> >

> > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > upon arrival to assignment?

> >

> > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > deployment?

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Meere

> >

> > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> >

> > U.S. Army, Retired

> >

> > JMeere@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Posted
Posted

I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a 'disaster'

situation, the rules change quite a bit.

Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to have a

certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who don't and are

working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if this was

officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment. Reciprocity is just a

ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I could be wrong,

I'm not certified in LA.)

Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to National

Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of Registry, and

Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only thing that matters is

what the contract or the company suggest, along with " best practices. "

So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I don't

expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots filled. Also,

you might want to find out what other companies are paying, $19/hr isn't

terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all coming out of BP's

pocket anyway.

Austin

> Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil spill

> operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to Texas

> EMS or out of state responders as well.

>

>

>

> From: JMeere

> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> To: texasems-l '

> Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

>

>

>

> Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

>

>

>

> From: JMeere

> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> To: jeff.johnson@...'

> Subject: Oil Spill Operations

>

>

>

> Mr. ,

>

>

>

> I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking for

> short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time but

> my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> predetermined times.

>

>

>

> I do have a few questions of you:

>

> 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

>

> 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

>

> 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> FEMA?

>

> 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> upon arrival to assignment?

>

> 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> deployment?

>

>

>

> J. Meere

>

> CEP, Arizona Ambulance

>

> U.S. Army, Retired

>

> JMeere@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I think there was a post about waivers in LA a few days ago. Maybe

Grayson or know?

Rules don't just change in a disaster unless they have a built in way

of changing or they are waived like what Texas did during Katrina and

Rita and Ike.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

On Jun 25, 2010, at 20:15, A Austin abaustin+yahoogroups@...>

wrote:

>

> I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

>

> Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed

> to have a certification from the state. I know of more then a few

> people who don't and are working onshore jobs related to oil

> cleanup, so I'm not sure if this was officially waived or if noone

> gives a damn at the moment. Reciprocity is just a ticket-punch from

> what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I could be wrong, I'm

> not certified in LA.)

>

> Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG

> Certificate of Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that.

> Therefore, the only thing that matters is what the contract or the

> company suggest, along with " best practices. "

>

> So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people,

> so I don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all

> the spots filled. Also, you might want to find out what other

> companies are paying, $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO,

> especially since this is all coming out of BP's pocket anyway.

>

> Austin

>

>

>

> > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the

> oil spill

> > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific

> to Texas

> > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > To: texasems-l '

> > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > To: jeff.johnson@...'

> > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Mr. ,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and

> looking for

> > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full

> time but

> > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > predetermined times.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do have a few questions of you:

> >

> > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> >

> > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> >

> > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > FEMA?

> >

> > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it

> begin

> > upon arrival to assignment?

> >

> > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > deployment?

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Meere

> >

> > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> >

> > U.S. Army, Retired

> >

> > JMeere@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

FYI: Louisiana Announces EMS Reciprocity Process Related to the Gulf Oil

Spill Cleanup

(06/07/10) An Executive

Orderhttp://www.gov.state.la.us/assets/docs/2010%20BJ%209%20EO%20Oil%20Spill%20\

Temporary%20EMTs.pdf>(EO)

[bJ 2010 –9] has been issued by Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal that

describes the process of reciprocity for temporary EMS workers to assist in

medical aid efforts related to the Gulf Oil Spill cleanup. Individuals who

are “duly licensed and in good standing in another state” may apply for

temporary reciprocity.

The EO outlines the steps that will enable EMS workers to respond to mutual

aid requests, EMAC deployments, and/or employment offers from British

Petroleum for direct assistance.

This information is NOT a call for volunteers. Individuals should NOT

respond to Louisiana to provide EMS care nor should they contact the

Louisiana Dept of Health or EMS Office to request information about

volunteering with the oil spill cleanup.

The executive order can be found at:

http://www.gov.state.la.us/assets/docs/2010%20BJ%209%20EO%20Oil%20Spill%20Tempor\

ary%20EMTs.pdf

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

abaustin+yahoogroups@...abaustin%2Byahoogroups@...>

> wrote:

>

>

>

> I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

>

> Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to have

> a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who don't

> and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if this

> was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment. Reciprocity is

> just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I

> could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

>

> Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of

> Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only thing

> that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with " best

> practices. "

>

> So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I

> don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are paying,

> $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all coming

> out of BP's pocket anyway.

>

> Austin

>

>

>

>

> > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> spill

> > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to Texas

> > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > To: texasems-l <%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>'

> > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > To: jeff.johnson@... <%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com>'

> > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Mr. ,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking for

> > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time

> but

> > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > predetermined times.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do have a few questions of you:

> >

> > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> >

> > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> >

> > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > FEMA?

> >

> > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > upon arrival to assignment?

> >

> > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > deployment?

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Meere

> >

> > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> >

> > U.S. Army, Retired

> >

> > JMeere@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

The Governor issued an executive order on June 4th that waived the

requirement for National Registry certification, however an out of state EMS

professional must still apply for reciprocity. Practicing as an EMS

professional without a license is against the law in every state including

Louisiana.

I would caution any EMS professional who practices exclusively outside of

any state without a state license. The National Registry is not a license

to practice and there is a statement to this on the back of every National

Registry certification card.

An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

" payday " .

If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

report it to the proper authorities.

AJL

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

abaustin+yahoogroups@...abaustin%2Byahoogroups@...>

> wrote:

>

>

>

> I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

>

> Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to have

> a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who don't

> and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if this

> was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment. Reciprocity is

> just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I

> could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

>

> Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of

> Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only thing

> that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with " best

> practices. "

>

> So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I

> don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are paying,

> $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all coming

> out of BP's pocket anyway.

>

> Austin

>

>

>

>

> > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> spill

> > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to Texas

> > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > To: texasems-l <%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>'

> > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> >

> >

> >

> > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@... ]

> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > To: jeff.johnson@... <%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com>'

> > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> >

> >

> >

> > Mr. ,

> >

> >

> >

> > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking for

> > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time

> but

> > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > predetermined times.

> >

> >

> >

> > I do have a few questions of you:

> >

> > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> >

> > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> >

> > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > FEMA?

> >

> > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > upon arrival to assignment?

> >

> > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > deployment?

> >

> >

> >

> > J. Meere

> >

> > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> >

> > U.S. Army, Retired

> >

> > JMeere@...

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Everything that happens offshore is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Paramedics have

no standing outside of state law and practice acts, so outside the state's

boundaries (>3nm, where most of the work happens) you're now in federal waters.

I have no idea what the relative laws, regulations, or rules are.

The only item close that I am aware of provides a Certificate of Registry for a

Medical Doctor, Physician Assistant, Registered Nurse or former Hospital

Corpsman (or similar). Paramedics are not permitted to get this Certificate. I

BELIEVE the responsibility for medical care offshore is delegated from the

Ship's Master, and if that is the case he may be able to delegate it to anyone

he wants--frequently on vessels without anyone medical the Captain or his

designee has had a " Medical Person in Charge " course with a pretty insane scope

of practice relative to the training.

I am not recommending that someone work without a valid card (which are

certificates in most places, not licenses) just saying that the " standards " are

related more to best practices rather then any specific rules, so far as I know.

If someone wants to correct me, please do, I'd love to have a real reference.

Austin

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

> report it to the proper authorities.

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Posted
Posted

I will have to disagree with you here. Every state licenses EMS

professionals no matter what they call it. When a govermental agency, in

this case the state, gives you the authority to do something that the

general public is not allowed to do it is a license. The states may call it

a certification but in a legal stance it is a license no matter what it is

called.

The National Registry has a position on this issue:

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/Legal_Opinion.asp

*The Legal Differences Between Certification and Licensure*

Although the general public continues to use the terms interchangeably,

there are important functional distinctions between the two concepts.

The federal government has defined “certification” as the process by which a

non-governmental organization grants recognition to an individual who has

met predetermined qualifications specified by that organization.1 Similarly,

the National Commission for Certifying Agencies has recently defined

certification as “a process, often voluntary, by which individuals who have

demonstrated the level of knowledge and skill required in the profession,

occupation, role, or skill are identified to the public and other

stakeholders.”2

Accordingly, there are three hallmarks of certification (as functionally

defined).

Certification is:

1.

voluntary process;

2.

by a private organization;

3.

for the purpose of providing the public information on those individuals

who have successfully completed the certification process (usually entailing

successful completion of educational and testing requirements) and

demonstrated their ability to perform their profession competently.

Nearly every profession certifies its members in some way, but a prime

example is medicine. Private certifying boards certify physician

specialists. Although certification may assist a physician in obtaining

hospital privileges, or participating as a preferred provider within a

health insurer’s network, it does not affect his legal authority to practice

medicine. For instance, a surgeon can practice medicine in any state in

which he is licensed regardless of whether or not he is certified by the

American Board of Surgery.

Licensure, on the other hand, is the state’s grant of legal authority,

pursuant to the state’s police powers, to practice a profession within a

designated scope of practice. Under the licensure system, states define, by

statute, the tasks and function or scope of practice of a profession and

provide that these tasks may be legally performed only by those who are

licensed. As such, licensure prohibits anyone from practicing the profession

who is not licensed, regardless of whether or not the individual has been

certified by a private organization.

Confusion between the terms “certification” and “licensure” arises because

many states call their licensure processes “certification,” particularly

when they incorporate the standards and requirements of private certifying

bodies in their licensing statutes and require that an individual be

certified in order to have state authorization to practice. The use of

certification by the National Registry by some states as a basis for

granting individuals the right to practice as EMTs and calling the

authorization granted “certification” is an example of this practice.

Nevertheless, certification by the National Registry, by itself, does not

give an individual the right to practice.

Regardless of what descriptive title is used by a state agency, if an

occupation has a statutorily or regulatorily defined scope of practice and

only individuals authorized by the state can perform those functions and

activities, the authorized individuals are licensed. It does not matter if

the authorization is called something other than a license; the

authorization has the legal effect of a license.

In sum, the National Registry is a private certifying organization. The

various state offices of EMS or like agencies serve as the state licensing

agencies. Certification by the National Registry is a distinct process from

licensure; and it serves the important independent purpose of identifying

for the public, state licensure agencies and employers, those individuals

who have successfully completed the Registry’s educational requirements and

demonstrated their skills and abilities in the mandated examinations.

Furthermore, the National Registry’s tracking of adverse licensure actions

and criminal convictions provides an important source of information which

protects the public and aids in the mobility of EMT providers.

1 U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, *Report on Licensure

and Related Health Personnel Credentialing* (Washington, D.C.: June, 1971 p.

7).

2 NCCA Standards for the Accreditation of Certification Programs, approved

by the member organizations of the National Commission for Certifying

Agencies in February, 2002 (effective January, 2003).

>

>

> Every EMS person in Texas practices without a license since we are not

> licensed professionals and that would include LP's. Further more I think

> tat

> is true in many if not most states but it may that some states do indeed

> licenses folks but they are the exception.

>

> I'll let the JD's on the list extrapolate if they choose as I would not

> want to be accused of practicing law without a licence to but it isn't

> semantics it's more fact.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

> In a message dated 6/25/2010 8:54:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> ajl442@... writes:

>

> The Governor issued an executive order on June 4th that waived the

> requirement for National Registry certification, however an out of state

> EMS

> professional must still apply for reciprocity. Practicing as an EMS

> professional without a license is against the law in every state including

> Louisiana.

>

> I would caution any EMS professional who practices exclusively outside of

> any state without a state license. The National Registry is not a license

> to practice and there is a statement to this on the back of every National

> Registry certification card.

>

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you

> to

> report it to the proper authorities.

>

> AJL

> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

> abaustin+yahoogroups@... <

> abaustin%2Byahoogroups@... >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> > 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

> >

> > Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to

> have

> > a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who

> don't

> > and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if

> this

> > was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment.

> Reciprocity is

> > just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I

> > could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

> >

> > Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> > National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of

> > Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only

> thing

> > that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with

> " best

> > practices. "

> >

> > So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I

> > don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> > filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are paying,

> > $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all

> coming

> > out of BP's pocket anyway.

> >

> > Austin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> > spill

> > > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to

> Texas

> > > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > > To: texasems-l

<%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><%27texasems-l%

> 40yahoogroups.com>'

>

> > > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > > To: jeff.johnson@...

<%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com><%27jeff.johnson%

> 40acadian.com>'

>

> > > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mr. ,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking

> for

> > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time

> > but

> > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > > predetermined times.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > >

> > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> > >

> > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > >

> > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > > FEMA?

> > >

> > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > >

> > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > > deployment?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > J. Meere

> > >

> > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > >

> > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > >

> > > JMeere@...

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

I will have to disagree with you here. Every state licenses EMS

professionals no matter what they call it. When a govermental agency, in

this case the state, gives you the authority to do something that the

general public is not allowed to do it is a license. The states may call it

a certification but in a legal stance it is a license no matter what it is

called.

The National Registry has a position on this issue:

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/Legal_Opinion.asp

*The Legal Differences Between Certification and Licensure*

Although the general public continues to use the terms interchangeably,

there are important functional distinctions between the two concepts.

The federal government has defined “certification” as the process by which a

non-governmental organization grants recognition to an individual who has

met predetermined qualifications specified by that organization.1 Similarly,

the National Commission for Certifying Agencies has recently defined

certification as “a process, often voluntary, by which individuals who have

demonstrated the level of knowledge and skill required in the profession,

occupation, role, or skill are identified to the public and other

stakeholders.”2

Accordingly, there are three hallmarks of certification (as functionally

defined).

Certification is:

1.

voluntary process;

2.

by a private organization;

3.

for the purpose of providing the public information on those individuals

who have successfully completed the certification process (usually entailing

successful completion of educational and testing requirements) and

demonstrated their ability to perform their profession competently.

Nearly every profession certifies its members in some way, but a prime

example is medicine. Private certifying boards certify physician

specialists. Although certification may assist a physician in obtaining

hospital privileges, or participating as a preferred provider within a

health insurer’s network, it does not affect his legal authority to practice

medicine. For instance, a surgeon can practice medicine in any state in

which he is licensed regardless of whether or not he is certified by the

American Board of Surgery.

Licensure, on the other hand, is the state’s grant of legal authority,

pursuant to the state’s police powers, to practice a profession within a

designated scope of practice. Under the licensure system, states define, by

statute, the tasks and function or scope of practice of a profession and

provide that these tasks may be legally performed only by those who are

licensed. As such, licensure prohibits anyone from practicing the profession

who is not licensed, regardless of whether or not the individual has been

certified by a private organization.

Confusion between the terms “certification” and “licensure” arises because

many states call their licensure processes “certification,” particularly

when they incorporate the standards and requirements of private certifying

bodies in their licensing statutes and require that an individual be

certified in order to have state authorization to practice. The use of

certification by the National Registry by some states as a basis for

granting individuals the right to practice as EMTs and calling the

authorization granted “certification” is an example of this practice.

Nevertheless, certification by the National Registry, by itself, does not

give an individual the right to practice.

Regardless of what descriptive title is used by a state agency, if an

occupation has a statutorily or regulatorily defined scope of practice and

only individuals authorized by the state can perform those functions and

activities, the authorized individuals are licensed. It does not matter if

the authorization is called something other than a license; the

authorization has the legal effect of a license.

In sum, the National Registry is a private certifying organization. The

various state offices of EMS or like agencies serve as the state licensing

agencies. Certification by the National Registry is a distinct process from

licensure; and it serves the important independent purpose of identifying

for the public, state licensure agencies and employers, those individuals

who have successfully completed the Registry’s educational requirements and

demonstrated their skills and abilities in the mandated examinations.

Furthermore, the National Registry’s tracking of adverse licensure actions

and criminal convictions provides an important source of information which

protects the public and aids in the mobility of EMT providers.

1 U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, *Report on Licensure

and Related Health Personnel Credentialing* (Washington, D.C.: June, 1971 p.

7).

2 NCCA Standards for the Accreditation of Certification Programs, approved

by the member organizations of the National Commission for Certifying

Agencies in February, 2002 (effective January, 2003).

>

>

> Every EMS person in Texas practices without a license since we are not

> licensed professionals and that would include LP's. Further more I think

> tat

> is true in many if not most states but it may that some states do indeed

> licenses folks but they are the exception.

>

> I'll let the JD's on the list extrapolate if they choose as I would not

> want to be accused of practicing law without a licence to but it isn't

> semantics it's more fact.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

> In a message dated 6/25/2010 8:54:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> ajl442@... writes:

>

> The Governor issued an executive order on June 4th that waived the

> requirement for National Registry certification, however an out of state

> EMS

> professional must still apply for reciprocity. Practicing as an EMS

> professional without a license is against the law in every state including

> Louisiana.

>

> I would caution any EMS professional who practices exclusively outside of

> any state without a state license. The National Registry is not a license

> to practice and there is a statement to this on the back of every National

> Registry certification card.

>

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you

> to

> report it to the proper authorities.

>

> AJL

> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

> abaustin+yahoogroups@... <

> abaustin%2Byahoogroups@... >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> > 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

> >

> > Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to

> have

> > a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who

> don't

> > and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if

> this

> > was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment.

> Reciprocity is

> > just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway (I

> > could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

> >

> > Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> > National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate of

> > Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only

> thing

> > that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with

> " best

> > practices. "

> >

> > So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so I

> > don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> > filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are paying,

> > $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all

> coming

> > out of BP's pocket anyway.

> >

> > Austin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> > spill

> > > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to

> Texas

> > > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > > To: texasems-l

<%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><%27texasems-l%

> 40yahoogroups.com>'

>

> > > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > > To: jeff.johnson@...

<%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com><%27jeff.johnson%

> 40acadian.com>'

>

> > > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mr. ,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking

> for

> > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full time

> > but

> > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > > predetermined times.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > >

> > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> > >

> > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > >

> > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > > FEMA?

> > >

> > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > >

> > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > > deployment?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > J. Meere

> > >

> > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > >

> > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > >

> > > JMeere@...

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Yes, at some point in the past past, which is past.

G

Oil Spill Operations

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mr. ,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and

> looking

> > for

> > > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed

> full time

> > > but

> > > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > > > predetermined times.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> > > >

> > > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > > >

> > > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of

> Arcadian or

> > > > FEMA?

> > > >

> > > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does

> it begin

> > > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > > >

> > > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction

> with

> > > > deployment?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > J. Meere

> > > >

> > > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > > >

> > > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > > >

> > > > JMeere@...

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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Posted
Posted

True and like ships that pass in the night the past is past but not

passé. Or is it?

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

> Yes, at some point in the past past, which is past.

>

> G

>

> Oil Spill Operations

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mr. ,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and

> > looking

> > > for

> > > > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed

> > full time

> > > > but

> > > > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your

> company at

> > > > > predetermined times.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with

> Arcadian?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By

> flight? By

> > > > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of

> > Arcadian or

> > > > > FEMA?

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does

> > it begin

> > > > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction

> > with

> > > > > deployment?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > J. Meere

> > > > >

> > > > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > > > >

> > > > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > > > >

> > > > > JMeere@...

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

jim davis

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

> report it to the proper authorities.

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Posted
Posted

Not always, but sometimes; it depends.

G

Oil Spill Operations

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Mr. ,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and

> > looking

> > > for

> > > > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed

> > full time

> > > > but

> > > > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your

> company at

> > > > > predetermined times.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with

> Arcadian?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By

> flight? By

> > > > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of

> > Arcadian or

> > > > > FEMA?

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does

> > it begin

> > > > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction

> > with

> > > > > deployment?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > J. Meere

> > > > >

> > > > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > > > >

> > > > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > > > >

> > > > > JMeere@...

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Posted
Posted

Jim's right.

But for those who want to work offshore, I would mention these items, and I

invite Jim to chime in and contribute more.

Generally, when you work offshore you're a contract employee. You work for a

service that provides medics under contract to an operator. The contractor

wants nothing to do with healthcare, and that's why they have you. Your MEDICAL

duties are defined in your employment contract with your employer. You will

have a medical director who will supervise your practice, and you will answer to

him or her medically. But for other things, such as what your ancillary duties

on the rig are, when you get up and go to bed, what you have to wear, where you

can go and can't go, are governed by the person who commands the rig or ship

where you are.

Now, if you've been watching the BP oil spill coverage, you have learned that

there a slew of contractors involved in a drilling operation. It's important to

know who the medic is contracted to, because the company man of that contractor

will have some things to say about what you do, but not involving your medical

practice.

Recently calls have gone out for medics to work for various services in the Gulf

during this crisis. Please listen to me. There are many pitfalls in this sort

of work, and I'll try to name a few.

1. Many promises will be made; few will be kept.

2. The companies who are seeking your services are in it to make money, and

you're nothing but a cog in the wheel to them.

3. They may promise you reimbursement for travel expenses, meals, per diem,

overtime, and champagne and caviar with each meal, but if it's not in writing,

they're not bound by their promises, and NONE of the companies who will hire you

EVER keep all their promises. This is my opinion only. I don't have evidence to

prove it, but it's my judgment from all that I know.

4. None of them will give you a written contract. If they offer you a written

contract, pay the money to have a lawyer analyze it and advise you.

5. If you trust an HR person from a private ambulance service, I have some

prime white-sand beach-front property here in Tucson for sale cheap.

6. Ask questions and demand answers before you sign on to any job offshore.

Get the terms in writing. Even if you take notes during your hiring interview

and write out what you're promised, that can help you when they decide to stiff

you, as they inevitably will.

7. If you cannot get the terms of your employment in writing, covering travel

expenses, pay scales, overtime rules, per diem expenses or meals provided, walk

quickly away.

Be very careful when you opt for things that are too good to be true. They're

almost never true.

GG

Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

jim davis

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

> report it to the proper authorities.

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Posted
Posted

I have been looking into locating to Louisiana soon just for the oil spill

employment. I had many questions before I was willing to make the great leap

from Alaska to Louisiana. I appreciate all of the information shared here as it

will help in making an informed decision.

DeFrance

________________________________

To: texasems-l

Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 9:16:48 PM

Subject: Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

Jim's right.

But for those who want to work offshore, I would mention these items, and I

invite Jim to chime in and contribute more.

Generally, when you work offshore you're a contract employee. You work for a

service that provides medics under contract to an operator. The contractor

wants nothing to do with healthcare, and that's why they have you. Your MEDICAL

duties are defined in your employment contract with your employer. You will

have a medical director who will supervise your practice, and you will answer to

him or her medically. But for other things, such as what your ancillary duties

on the rig are, when you get up and go to bed, what you have to wear, where you

can go and can't go, are governed by the person who commands the rig or ship

where you are.

Now, if you've been watching the BP oil spill coverage, you have learned that

there a slew of contractors involved in a drilling operation. It's important to

know who the medic is contracted to, because the company man of that contractor

will have some things to say about what you do, but not involving your medical

practice.

Recently calls have gone out for medics to work for various services in the Gulf

during this crisis. Please listen to me. There are many pitfalls in this sort

of work, and I'll try to name a few.

1. Many promises will be made; few will be kept.

2. The companies who are seeking your services are in it to make money, and

you're nothing but a cog in the wheel to them.

3. They may promise you reimbursement for travel expenses, meals, per diem,

overtime, and champagne and caviar with each meal, but if it's not in writing,

they're not bound by their promises, and NONE of the companies who will hire you

EVER keep all their promises. This is my opinion only. I don't have evidence to

prove it, but it's my judgment from all that I know.

4. None of them will give you a written contract. If they offer you a written

contract, pay the money to have a lawyer analyze it and advise you.

5. If you trust an HR person from a private ambulance service, I have some

prime white-sand beach-front property here in Tucson for sale cheap.

6. Ask questions and demand answers before you sign on to any job offshore.

Get the terms in writing. Even if you take notes during your hiring interview

and write out what you're promised, that can help you when they decide to stiff

you, as they inevitably will.

7. If you cannot get the terms of your employment in writing, covering travel

expenses, pay scales, overtime rules, per diem expenses or meals provided, walk

quickly away.

Be very careful when you opt for things that are too good to be true. They're

almost never true.

GG

Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

jim davis

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

> report it to the proper authorities.

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Posted
Posted

I would also concur with Gene's comments. As many of y'all may remember, there

were similar calls for medics post-Katrina. Many of the same promises were

made. I'm sure some of the long-term members of this list remember some of the

horror stories about unpaid wages, working conditions, etc.

In my regular career, I deal with a lot of government contractors and have some

familiarity with how they operate. In disasters like the oil spill and

hurricanes, everybody crawls out of the woodwork trying to get on Uncle Sugar's

gravy train. Some of these contractors are flat put crooked, some are just

ignorant as to how to submit invoices to be reimbursed by the government, and

there are some real professionals out there. My advice is to do the research

well before you go. If you've never heard of the company, there may be a good

reason why.

As the old Latin adage says, caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware. Or in the

case, the potential employee.

Don't let promises of vast sums of money prevent you from exercising your

ordinary good judgment.

Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/Lic.P.

Austin, Texas

Sent from my iPad

>

> Jim's right.

>

> But for those who want to work offshore, I would mention these items, and I

invite Jim to chime in and contribute more.

>

> Generally, when you work offshore you're a contract employee. You work for a

service that provides medics under contract to an operator. The contractor wants

nothing to do with healthcare, and that's why they have you. Your MEDICAL duties

are defined in your employment contract with your employer. You will have a

medical director who will supervise your practice, and you will answer to him or

her medically. But for other things, such as what your ancillary duties on the

rig are, when you get up and go to bed, what you have to wear, where you can go

and can't go, are governed by the person who commands the rig or ship where you

are.

>

> Now, if you've been watching the BP oil spill coverage, you have learned that

there a slew of contractors involved in a drilling operation. It's important to

know who the medic is contracted to, because the company man of that contractor

will have some things to say about what you do, but not involving your medical

practice.

>

> Recently calls have gone out for medics to work for various services in the

Gulf during this crisis. Please listen to me. There are many pitfalls in this

sort of work, and I'll try to name a few.

>

> 1. Many promises will be made; few will be kept.

>

> 2. The companies who are seeking your services are in it to make money, and

you're nothing but a cog in the wheel to them.

>

> 3. They may promise you reimbursement for travel expenses, meals, per diem,

overtime, and champagne and caviar with each meal, but if it's not in writing,

they're not bound by their promises, and NONE of the companies who will hire you

EVER keep all their promises. This is my opinion only. I don't have evidence to

prove it, but it's my judgment from all that I know.

>

> 4. None of them will give you a written contract. If they offer you a written

contract, pay the money to have a lawyer analyze it and advise you.

>

> 5. If you trust an HR person from a private ambulance service, I have some

prime white-sand beach-front property here in Tucson for sale cheap.

>

> 6. Ask questions and demand answers before you sign on to any job offshore.

Get the terms in writing. Even if you take notes during your hiring interview

and write out what you're promised, that can help you when they decide to stiff

you, as they inevitably will.

>

> 7. If you cannot get the terms of your employment in writing, covering travel

expenses, pay scales, overtime rules, per diem expenses or meals provided, walk

quickly away.

>

> Be very careful when you opt for things that are too good to be true. They're

almost never true.

>

> GG

>

> Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

>

> i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

> a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

>

> jim davis

>

>

>

> > An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

> > without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

> > " payday " .

>

> >

>

> > If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

>

> > report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

very good points, gene. i don't do that contract stuff. that is a mess, i agree.

i work for a company (BTW we don't drill-we do other stuff) my actual job title

is EHS advisor (Environmental, health, safety advisor) some companies call it

HSE (same thing, different acronymal order-i just made up a word!) well over 90%

of my work is preventative so i don't HAVE to do paramedic stuff, i make general

safety inspections, make sure people are wearing appropriate PPE, inspect such

things as fire extinguishers/ladder/fall protection systems, food sanitation ,

water testing,etc.

it's more of an occupational health environmental than EMS. I've had to treat

such diverse stuff as athlete's foot, skin infections, pink eye, bronchitis,

sinusitis, tonsillitis, dental absesses (sp?) if there are saturation divers on

board there are very complex neuro exams pre and post saturation to do and

having to assess them through a TV camera which is inside the chamber. they can

only get PO meds, if something really bad happens to them it's 3 hours to get

pressed down the their pressure and 72-120 hours to get you and them

decompressed back to atmospheric pressure.

in general for everyone on board the good side is that i know a) their

history/meds/allergies

i have some normal medical equipment and some stuff that would be considered off

the wall from what i've been used to: woods' lamp/fluorscein dye, reflex hammer,

tuning fork, steri-strips. i can't suture in the gulf of mexico but we do in SE

asia, etc.  I have no pedi/neonatal equipment. i have 36 OTC and 86

prescription meds and several abx, meds for gout, IBS. it's a whole different

world. most of them time i'm myself (no EMT,FF,etc to help) our medical control

isn't an ED doc but i have internal medicine, occupational med doc and a dive

physician. you can have epidemics of stuff like MRSA and GI illness. it's like a

cruise ship but the gumbo is better and there is no karoake.

jim davis

EHS Advisor

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

> report it to the proper authorities.

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Posted
Posted

This isn't really the point of the exercise. I'm looking for the law,

convention, or regulation that allows medical doctors the privilege of

delegating their practice to us in national or international waters. If you

think about things at their most basic, a physician needs legal authorization to

work, though I will grant that in the absence of a defined method for that

authorization few would say they have no right to practice. However, delegation

of practice is something that is very specific and in the absence of a specific

legal authorization would be generally assumed not to exist, no? I don't really

care how it works in reality, because I work offshore too along with tens of

thousands of other guys, and oftentimes the reality doesn't match up with the

regulation.

I do agree that at some point it boils down to a doctor authorizing 'someone' to

do 'something.' However, I'm not sure it has " nothing " to do with the master,

either, because I don't think if there is any language addressing it that it has

been brought into the modern era, and failing that, it would be customary for

the master to be ultimately responsible for everything on his vessel.

And if it just boils down to having a " doctor, " don't tell the third service

companies. 'Medics have been getting pushed off rigs in the parts of the world

because they can get a " qualified " TCN " doctor " for half the day-rate of a

medic. However, if what you're saying is the final word, there isn't much of a

reason they couldn't do it in the Gulf.

Austin

> i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

> a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

>

> jim davis

>

>

>

>

>

>> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

>> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

>> " payday " .

>

>>

>

>> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

>

>> report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

point taken. i'll ask around. someone, somewhere in my organization knows the

answer to this.

jim davis

>

>

>

>> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

>> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

>> " payday " .

>

>>

>

>> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

>

>> report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Gene,

On the topic of oilfield work, I think you are overstating the " sleazyness " of

oilfield operators a bit too much. It's no picnic, but most reputable companies

hold up to their promises most of the time, otherwise they get a bad reputation

and none of the " experienced hands " will work for them, and they'll either enter

a downward spiral of recruiting green hands and placing them on jobs (and piss

off their prime contractor by constantly supplying inexperienced people) or

they'll fix themselves and their reputation will improve. Reputation matters

both to the employers AND employees (many people forget about that part.)

Regarding reimbursement, I've only ever been stiffed on a few small items, like

a $35/day per diem for food while traveling. I've -never- not been paid for days

worked. I have been screwed on 'standby' time (where you should be getting paid

at least half day rate because you're committed to a project that hasn't started

yet.) I have specific requirements regarding my employment, and I make them

clear up front, and I've never had a problem with people not holding up to their

end of the bargain. Those requirements also frequently stop me from getting a

job, but that has probably been as much of a blessing as a curse in some

instances.

Try to ensure you're getting the " best deal " you can up front on every job

because that is frequently you're only position to negotiate. Most of the time,

you're making 50% of what is being billed for you daily. This is a " good "

figure. However, in times of crisis, the billed day rates of the medics go up

but the pay stays the same. So be aware particularly on 'emergency' work, that

if you're working for a 'normal' day rate, there are probably guys around making

1.5-2.5x what you may be. Remember that you live on a rig/boat/etc 24 hours a

day and are working 12 hour days 7 days in a row for however long you're out

there. At $235-250/day you should just stay home, you'd probably make more just

working for an ambulance. Medics should make $275-$300/day at least.

Make friends and contacts in the industry (both in your field and outside) and

communicate frequently with them. The " best jobs " are almost always from some

guy you met on a project four years ago who you kept in touch with and they need

a and are willing to pay you a lot of money for it.

At some point, you're going to get screwed. Don't take it personally. You just

have to look back at all the money you made and write it off as the cost of

doing business. Stick with larger more reputable companies (even if they pay

slightly less) until you get your feet under you to prevent it. Of course,

everyone's opinion of reputable varies.

There's a mailing list on yahoo called remotemedics. I'd recommend anyone who is

in or wants to be in the business lurk there. It's actually been much more quiet

the last couple years, which is sad, but I am always hopeful for good

conversation, and if you have a serious question or need help, there is a lot of

support there. Mind your Ps&Qs though (as you should on any list) as most of the

major third service companies monitor that list and have been known to make

hiring decisions based on it.

If anyone else has specific questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them on- or

off-line.

Austin

>

> Jim's right.

>

>

> But for those who want to work offshore, I would mention these items, and I

invite Jim to chime in and contribute more.

>

>

> Generally, when you work offshore you're a contract employee. You work for a

service that provides medics under contract to an operator. The contractor

wants nothing to do with healthcare, and that's why they have you. Your MEDICAL

duties are defined in your employment contract with your employer. You will

have a medical director who will supervise your practice, and you will answer to

him or her medically. But for other things, such as what your ancillary duties

on the rig are, when you get up and go to bed, what you have to wear, where you

can go and can't go, are governed by the person who commands the rig or ship

where you are.

>

>

> Now, if you've been watching the BP oil spill coverage, you have learned that

there a slew of contractors involved in a drilling operation. It's important to

know who the medic is contracted to, because the company man of that contractor

will have some things to say about what you do, but not involving your medical

practice.

>

>

> Recently calls have gone out for medics to work for various services in the

Gulf during this crisis. Please listen to me. There are many pitfalls in this

sort of work, and I'll try to name a few.

>

>

> 1. Many promises will be made; few will be kept.

>

>

> 2. The companies who are seeking your services are in it to make money, and

you're nothing but a cog in the wheel to them.

>

>

> 3. They may promise you reimbursement for travel expenses, meals, per diem,

overtime, and champagne and caviar with each meal, but if it's not in writing,

they're not bound by their promises, and NONE of the companies who will hire you

EVER keep all their promises. This is my opinion only. I don't have evidence to

prove it, but it's my judgment from all that I know.

>

>

> 4. None of them will give you a written contract. If they offer you a

written contract, pay the money to have a lawyer analyze it and advise you.

>

>

> 5. If you trust an HR person from a private ambulance service, I have some

prime white-sand beach-front property here in Tucson for sale cheap.

>

>

> 6. Ask questions and demand answers before you sign on to any job offshore.

Get the terms in writing. Even if you take notes during your hiring interview

and write out what you're promised, that can help you when they decide to stiff

you, as they inevitably will.

>

>

> 7. If you cannot get the terms of your employment in writing, covering travel

expenses, pay scales, overtime rules, per diem expenses or meals provided, walk

quickly away.

>

>

> Be very careful when you opt for things that are too good to be true. They're

almost never true.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

> Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

>

>

>

>

>

> i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

> a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

>

> jim davis

>

>

>

>> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

>> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

>> " payday " .

>

>>

>

>> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

>

>> report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Enough with the hyperbole. Although it's somewhat of an attraction on this

List to spread the populist notion that EMS workers are the hapless victims

of the greedy and predatory private-sector aristocracy, a blanket indictment

is not just unwarranted, it's irresponsible. Can one thus assume that all

companies, in all settings that " are in it to make money " should be

boycotted? Are we to conclude that EMS workers are mindless dolts who are

incapable of protecting their own financial and professional interests?

There's good and bad in every human endeavor - business, government, law,

medicine, education, etc. - take your pick.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 8:40 AM, james davis james_dav_bmcg@...>wrote:

>

>

> very good points, gene. i don't do that contract stuff. that is a mess, i

> agree. i work for a company (BTW we don't drill-we do other stuff) my actual

> job title is EHS advisor (Environmental, health, safety advisor) some

> companies call it HSE (same thing, different acronymal order-i just made up

> a word!) well over 90% of my work is preventative so i don't HAVE to do

> paramedic stuff, i make general safety inspections, make sure people are

> wearing appropriate PPE, inspect such things as fire

> extinguishers/ladder/fall protection systems, food sanitation , water

> testing,etc.

>

> it's more of an occupational health environmental than EMS. I've had to

> treat such diverse stuff as athlete's foot, skin infections, pink eye,

> bronchitis, sinusitis, tonsillitis, dental absesses (sp?) if there are

> saturation divers on board there are very complex neuro exams pre and post

> saturation to do and having to assess them through a TV camera which is

> inside the chamber. they can only get PO meds, if something really bad

> happens to them it's 3 hours to get pressed down the their pressure and

> 72-120 hours to get you and them decompressed back to atmospheric pressure.

>

> in general for everyone on board the good side is that i know a) their

> history/meds/allergies

>

> i have some normal medical equipment and some stuff that would be

> considered off the wall from what i've been used to: woods' lamp/fluorscein

> dye, reflex hammer, tuning fork, steri-strips. i can't suture in the gulf of

> mexico but we do in SE asia, etc. I have no pedi/neonatal equipment. i have

> 36 OTC and 86 prescription meds and several abx, meds for gout, IBS. it's a

> whole different world. most of them time i'm myself (no EMT,FF,etc to help)

> our medical control isn't an ED doc but i have internal medicine,

> occupational med doc and a dive physician. you can have epidemics of stuff

> like MRSA and GI illness. it's like a cruise ship but the gumbo is better

> and there is no karoake.

>

> jim davis

> EHS Advisor

>

>

>

> > An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

> > without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

> > " payday " .

>

> >

>

> > If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you

> to

>

> > report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Don't take offense at Gene's comments Austin, he's a medic... you plan for the

bad days, not the good ones.

We've heard a bit of personal experience on what an offshore medic can/can't do,

but we're all still without any case law on whether they are covered in their

actions. Specifically, can a treatment which is perfectly legitimate onshore

(say, giving someone a neb treatment) be considered malpractice outside the

state waters, as there is no certification to operate here?

I'm curious about this too... this is something that must have come up in the

past. Any offshore medics that can query their bosses? Would the act

affect this?

-Brad

> >

> >> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term

> for someone practicing

> >

> >> without a license, especially medics who work

> offshore. The term is

> >

> >> " payday " .

> >

> >>

> >

> >> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a

> license I encourage you to

> >

> >> report it to the proper authorities.

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

gotta watch out for Vibrio vulnificans as well- had to treat a couple of

cases of nasty skin infections from that organism due to folks working off

shore.

(while not an Occ Doc, I was qualified to monitor recompression therapy-

including the use of Navy Table Six)

ck

In a message dated 6/27/2010 08:40:46 Central Daylight Time,

james_dav_bmcg@... writes:

i have some normal medical equipment and some stuff that would be

considered off the wall from what i've been used to: woods' lamp/fluorscein

dye,

reflex hammer, tuning fork, steri-strips. i can't suture in the gulf of

mexico but we do in SE asia, etc. I have no pedi/neonatal equipment. i have 36

OTC and 86 prescription meds and several abx, meds for gout, IBS. it's a

whole different world. most of them time i'm myself (no EMT,FF,etc to help)

our medical control isn't an ED doc but i have internal medicine,

occupational med doc and a dive physician. you can have epidemics of stuff like

MRSA

and GI illness. it's like a cruise ship but the gumbo is better and there

is no karoake

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Posted
Posted

With all this talk going on... I think Safety Mgt Systems of Acadian has enough

experience with the offshore industry that any contracts they may have, that

have had legal input on just what Paramedics can do in state or federal waters.

It would be nice if individuals would have all their info before making a

blanket statement that Paramedics offshore or working on the oil spill are

lawsuits waiting to happen? Unless you know of someone who is filing or

planning on filing a lawsuit?

I would also concur with Gene's comments. As many of y'all may remember, there

were similar calls for medics post-Katrina. Many of the same promises were made.

I'm sure some of the long-term members of this list remember some of the horror

stories about unpaid wages, working conditions, etc.

In my regular career, I deal with a lot of government contractors and have some

familiarity with how they operate. In disasters like the oil spill and

hurricanes, everybody crawls out of the woodwork trying to get on Uncle Sugar's

gravy train. Some of these contractors are flat put crooked, some are just

ignorant as to how to submit invoices to be reimbursed by the government, and

there are some real professionals out there. My advice is to do the research

well before you go. If you've never heard of the company, there may be a good

reason why.

As the old Latin adage says, caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware. Or in the

case, the potential employee.

Don't let promises of vast sums of money prevent you from exercising your

ordinary good judgment.

Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, NREMT-P/Lic.P.

Austin, Texas

Sent from my iPad

>

> Jim's right.

>

> But for those who want to work offshore, I would mention these items, and I

invite Jim to chime in and contribute more.

>

> Generally, when you work offshore you're a contract employee. You work for a

service that provides medics under contract to an operator. The contractor wants

nothing to do with healthcare, and that's why they have you. Your MEDICAL duties

are defined in your employment contract with your employer. You will have a

medical director who will supervise your practice, and you will answer to him or

her medically. But for other things, such as what your ancillary duties on the

rig are, when you get up and go to bed, what you have to wear, where you can go

and can't go, are governed by the person who commands the rig or ship where you

are.

>

> Now, if you've been watching the BP oil spill coverage, you have learned that

there a slew of contractors involved in a drilling operation. It's important to

know who the medic is contracted to, because the company man of that contractor

will have some things to say about what you do, but not involving your medical

practice.

>

> Recently calls have gone out for medics to work for various services in the

Gulf during this crisis. Please listen to me. There are many pitfalls in this

sort of work, and I'll try to name a few.

>

> 1. Many promises will be made; few will be kept.

>

> 2. The companies who are seeking your services are in it to make money, and

you're nothing but a cog in the wheel to them.

>

> 3. They may promise you reimbursement for travel expenses, meals, per diem,

overtime, and champagne and caviar with each meal, but if it's not in writing,

they're not bound by their promises, and NONE of the companies who will hire you

EVER keep all their promises. This is my opinion only. I don't have evidence to

prove it, but it's my judgment from all that I know.

>

> 4. None of them will give you a written contract. If they offer you a written

contract, pay the money to have a lawyer analyze it and advise you.

>

> 5. If you trust an HR person from a private ambulance service, I have some

prime white-sand beach-front property here in Tucson for sale cheap.

>

> 6. Ask questions and demand answers before you sign on to any job offshore.

Get the terms in writing. Even if you take notes during your hiring interview

and write out what you're promised, that can help you when they decide to stiff

you, as they inevitably will.

>

> 7. If you cannot get the terms of your employment in writing, covering travel

expenses, pay scales, overtime rules, per diem expenses or meals provided, walk

quickly away.

>

> Be very careful when you opt for things that are too good to be true. They're

almost never true.

>

> GG

>

> Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations

>

> i work offshore. the ship's master has nothing to do with delegation of medial

care.

> a physician delegates medical care to us and we have protocols/standing orders

just like medics on land have.....

>

> jim davis

>

>

>

> > An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

>

> > without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

>

> > " payday " .

>

> >

>

> > If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you to

>

> > report it to the proper authorities.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Great , you sound like you have some input on the legal precedents that

allow medics to operate offshore in federal waters. Could you share some links

with us please?

- Brad

> >

> > > An attorney friend of mine has a technical term

> for someone practicing

> >

> > > without a license, especially medics who work

> offshore. The term is

> >

> > > " payday " .

> >

> > >

> >

> > > If you know of anyone who is practicing without a

> license I encourage you to

> >

> > > report it to the proper authorities.

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Do Registered Nurses and Licensed Practical Nurses meet your definition of a

licensed professional? In general they do not have a post graduate degree

nor do they practice independently yet they are licensed.

A Physican Assistant is also licensed but he/she may not practice

independently.

AJL

>

>

> Sorry, but you've got it backwards. The NREMT position paper is wrong and

> has no legal effect anyway. Licensure implies the privilege of independent

> practice and a post-graduate degree. Most states define the licensed

> professions in statutes. Paramedics are not allowed independent practice

> anywhere, and thus are not licensed.

>

> I realize that this is semantics, but trust me, the licensed professions do

> not include Paramedics.

>

> Gene Gandy, JD, LP, NREMT-P

> Licensed as a lawyer, certified as a Paramedic

>

>

> Oil Spill Operations

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mr. ,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking

> > for

> > > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full

> time

> > > but

> > > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > > > predetermined times.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> > > >

> > > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > > >

> > > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > > > FEMA?

> > > >

> > > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > > >

> > > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > > > deployment?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > J. Meere

> > > >

> > > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > > >

> > > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > > >

> > > > JMeere@...

40cox.net>

>

> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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