Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 , My HMO (M-CARE) did not cover my procedure. I went through the appeals process but they would not budge. Changed policies to a point of service plan for coverage (limited, with a 20% copay) to be able to go out of network. Send your x-rays to Dr. Gross. He should be able to tell you whether there is a concern with waiting until October. I believe that most of the concern with waiting is with AVN where the head of the femur breaks down. Are you taking any medication to help with the pain? If not try Vioxx (or Celebrex) and acetaminophen. Best of luck, Fred Dr. Gross, C2K 1/21/04 > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > procedure? > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > help. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 ... Suggest you try to get to get a prescription for Celebrex. One 200 mg. a day worked for me...and I'm living with end-stage OA... we're talking zero cartilage. I don't know you level of physical condition/muscle development, but I can tell you, if you have lat development at all, shoulder crutches will just rub the hell out of your upper arms, and lats. I didn't know about elbow crutches a few years ago when I had arthro on my right knee. The friction pain from using the shoulder crutches was far worse the post-op pain in the knee. I'm still waiting to find out what my insurance will do, but I can tell you this: even if you have a little cartilage left... with pain that keeps you up at night, you should move as fast as you can to get the needed repairs. Hobble on,Hippy... Alan > Thanks > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > help. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 ... Suggest you try to get to get a prescription for Celebrex. One 200 mg. a day worked for me...and I'm living with end-stage OA... we're talking zero cartilage. I don't know you level of physical condition/muscle development, but I can tell you, if you have lat development at all, shoulder crutches will just rub the hell out of your upper arms, and lats. I didn't know about elbow crutches a few years ago when I had arthro on my right knee. The friction pain from using the shoulder crutches was far worse the post-op pain in the knee. I'm still waiting to find out what my insurance will do, but I can tell you this: even if you have a little cartilage left... with pain that keeps you up at night, you should move as fast as you can to get the needed repairs. Hobble on,Hippy... Alan > Thanks > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > help. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Fred & Alan, I'm currently taking 600 mg Ibuprofen at every meal. That seems to help, but yesterday I fertilized the grass, with 2 passes, and I think that might be why I was so sore. My doctor told me the Ibruprofen wouldn't really hurt me to continue to take, as long as I try to take it with food. He told me my HMO wouldn't cover Viox or Celebrex unless my stomach couldn't take at least two other drugs such as Ibuprofen. Maybe it's time for my stomach to " act up " so I can graduate to better drugs. I'm too honest for my own good. Fred, I'm in good shape, but not sure it's to the point my crutches would rub extra. Currently my routine is upper body weights 3 days a week and ride a stationary bike two days a week. I'm hoping if I stay lean and keep in shape, it will help with the surgery and healing process. I'm really worried that I'm going to find out my HMO won't cover the procedure. If I want to switch plans, I think I have to wait until the end of the fiscal year which is the end of February. Sounds like that might make it too late to be a resurfacing candidate. It would be a big stretch to go it alone without insurance coverage. Hopefully I'll get some feedback from Dr. Gross's office next week. Thanks guys, > > Thanks > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > > help. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Fred & Alan, I'm currently taking 600 mg Ibuprofen at every meal. That seems to help, but yesterday I fertilized the grass, with 2 passes, and I think that might be why I was so sore. My doctor told me the Ibruprofen wouldn't really hurt me to continue to take, as long as I try to take it with food. He told me my HMO wouldn't cover Viox or Celebrex unless my stomach couldn't take at least two other drugs such as Ibuprofen. Maybe it's time for my stomach to " act up " so I can graduate to better drugs. I'm too honest for my own good. Fred, I'm in good shape, but not sure it's to the point my crutches would rub extra. Currently my routine is upper body weights 3 days a week and ride a stationary bike two days a week. I'm hoping if I stay lean and keep in shape, it will help with the surgery and healing process. I'm really worried that I'm going to find out my HMO won't cover the procedure. If I want to switch plans, I think I have to wait until the end of the fiscal year which is the end of February. Sounds like that might make it too late to be a resurfacing candidate. It would be a big stretch to go it alone without insurance coverage. Hopefully I'll get some feedback from Dr. Gross's office next week. Thanks guys, > > Thanks > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > > help. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > procedure? Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover resurfacing. Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from getting this done!!! > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in April. > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > that much, it was killing me yesterday. I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way constant pain eats away at your quality of life. Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > procedure? Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover resurfacing. Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from getting this done!!! > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in April. > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > that much, it was killing me yesterday. I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way constant pain eats away at your quality of life. Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi, : I'm sure you'll hear from Dr. Gross or Lee Webb,his nurse/assistant, very soon. But I know Dr. Gross is on vacation this week and next, and I think it's likely that Lee is on vacation, too. If you want to check with their office, the phone no. is on the website grossortho.com. They are very prompt, so if you don't hear anything almost immediately (Lee usually answers within 24h) assume vacation. All best, > > > Thanks > > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > > > help. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? Or, if my hip doesn't wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would probably come by Februrary or March of next year. Does that seem accurate? I read a recent post where it cost about $15.5K for a couple to go to Belgium, including their expenses. I'm not sure if that's still a good number or not. Any ideas??? Steelhead Wanna Be, > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > > procedure? > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > resurfacing. > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from > getting this done!!! > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > April. > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? Or, if my hip doesn't wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would probably come by Februrary or March of next year. Does that seem accurate? I read a recent post where it cost about $15.5K for a couple to go to Belgium, including their expenses. I'm not sure if that's still a good number or not. Any ideas??? Steelhead Wanna Be, > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > > procedure? > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > resurfacing. > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from > getting this done!!! > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > April. > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 , If your stomache can handle it, you could probably go to 800 mg of ibuprofen for those days when you are more active. You may want to check with your MD as that is perscription strength (what my MD perscribed for me anyway). You can also take acetaminophen for the pain while you are taking ibuprofen for the inflamation. I had asked an OS about that after surgery for another operation that I had. If you still can't sleep, try an OTC sleep aid. On the elbow crutches, are you needing something now or are you thinking ahead to after surgery? Prior to surgery I used a cane if I had to do much walking or was going to be on my feet long. After surgery, I used under the arm crutches for 1-2 weeks, then a cane and nothing after six weeks. I don't have any experience with the elbow crutches. On the insurance, my HMO would not allow me to go out of network for a problem they could take care of in network. They had a third party provide a report on resurfacing vs. THR and they referred to THR as " gold standard " . This does not consider age or patients desired level of activity. But the insurance company is only looking for a way to say NO! Regardless, go through the process (including appeals) with your HMO. You have nothing to lose. Who knows, they may say yes. If they do say no, you can change policies at open enrollment. Regards, Fred Dr. Gross, C2K 1/21/04 ps - Your reference to Steelhead in another post, do you fish? Muskegon is close to some great river fishing spots for steelhead and salmon. > > > Thanks > > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for your > > > help. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi , This is what I projected for our (wife and I) expenses to be in September: Hospital: $6.9K Doctor's fee: $3K Adm Fee: $2.6K Airfare: $1.689K (AA RT for 2) departing from Florida. Lodging: Holliday Inn for 12 days: $106 per day = $1.272K Transportation: 2 options for 12 days Public Transportation: $100 (meaning no taxi, only train or buses), or Car Rental: $389 (insurance not included) - stick-shift, no air Food/Miscelaneous: $400 (including phone cards and sightseeing) Total: $16.250K The cost above has been already coverted to dollars. Keep in mind that it could cost more or less depending on what your plans are. For example, we are planning to rent a car and stay for 12 days minimum. So, I know it is going to cost us more than $16K. But if you reduce your stay to 10 days and use public transportation, then you could be in the $15.5K figure. Remember that you will get some reimbursement from your Health Insurance Co. But if you wait until 1st quarter 2005, you may not be eligeble for reimbursement anymore. Let me know if you have more questions. Mark. Prentice theprentices@...> wrote: Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? Or, if my hip doesn't wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would probably come by Februrary or March of next year. Does that seem accurate? I read a recent post where it cost about $15.5K for a couple to go to Belgium, including their expenses. I'm not sure if that's still a good number or not. Any ideas??? Steelhead Wanna Be, > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > > procedure? > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > resurfacing. > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from > getting this done!!! > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > April. > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi , This is what I projected for our (wife and I) expenses to be in September: Hospital: $6.9K Doctor's fee: $3K Adm Fee: $2.6K Airfare: $1.689K (AA RT for 2) departing from Florida. Lodging: Holliday Inn for 12 days: $106 per day = $1.272K Transportation: 2 options for 12 days Public Transportation: $100 (meaning no taxi, only train or buses), or Car Rental: $389 (insurance not included) - stick-shift, no air Food/Miscelaneous: $400 (including phone cards and sightseeing) Total: $16.250K The cost above has been already coverted to dollars. Keep in mind that it could cost more or less depending on what your plans are. For example, we are planning to rent a car and stay for 12 days minimum. So, I know it is going to cost us more than $16K. But if you reduce your stay to 10 days and use public transportation, then you could be in the $15.5K figure. Remember that you will get some reimbursement from your Health Insurance Co. But if you wait until 1st quarter 2005, you may not be eligeble for reimbursement anymore. Let me know if you have more questions. Mark. Prentice theprentices@...> wrote: Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? Or, if my hip doesn't wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would probably come by Februrary or March of next year. Does that seem accurate? I read a recent post where it cost about $15.5K for a couple to go to Belgium, including their expenses. I'm not sure if that's still a good number or not. Any ideas??? Steelhead Wanna Be, > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm qualified > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for October > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this type of > > procedure? > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I think > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > resurfacing. > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you from > getting this done!!! > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long can I > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? Could > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > April. > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow crutches > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a lot > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow crutches > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I did > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the whole > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering me > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thanks ! I called their office before I sent Lee an email. Lee is on vacation this week and is supposed to be back next week. I'm on the edge of my seat for an answer. It's one of those things, when you decide you've found the best solution and you make up your mind to do it, but you're not sure if your HMO will cover it. It's like the feeling you got when you were trying to get your daughter a Cabbage Patch doll for X-Mas, but you couldn't get one because they were so popular. I've got my fingers crossed. I suppose worst case, I can always get referred to have a metal/metal THR. We'll see. > > > > Thanks > > > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > > crutches > > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > > lot > > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > > whole > > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't > bothering > > > me > > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for > your > > > > help. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Fred, I was thinking about crutches after surgery. Curently, I just walk with a limp. I haven't graduated to a cane yet. I may try 800 Ibuprofens as my next step. I worry about using Tylenol due to possible kidney damage. I do fish some and go out with my brother-in- law who is rigged up with electric downriggers for Salmon fishing on Lake Michigan. I live on Bear Lake in North Muskegon, but usually go " boat drinking " rather than fishing. That flows much better with my wife who's not a fisherman, but can boat drink with the best of them. Stay tuned and I'll see if I get lucky with my HMO. Thanks Fred, > , > If your stomache can handle it, you could probably go to 800 mg of > ibuprofen for those days when you are more active. You may want to > check with your MD as that is perscription strength (what my MD > perscribed for me anyway). > > You can also take acetaminophen for the pain while you are taking > ibuprofen for the inflamation. I had asked an OS about that after > surgery for another operation that I had. If you still can't sleep, > try an OTC sleep aid. > > On the elbow crutches, are you needing something now or are you > thinking ahead to after surgery? Prior to surgery I used a cane if > I had to do much walking or was going to be on my feet long. After > surgery, I used under the arm crutches for 1-2 weeks, then a cane > and nothing after six weeks. I don't have any experience with the > elbow crutches. > > On the insurance, my HMO would not allow me to go out of network for > a problem they could take care of in network. They had a third > party provide a report on resurfacing vs. THR and they referred to > THR as " gold standard " . This does not consider age or patients > desired level of activity. But the insurance company is only > looking for a way to say NO! > > Regardless, go through the process (including appeals) with your > HMO. You have nothing to lose. Who knows, they may say yes. If > they do say no, you can change policies at open enrollment. > > Regards, > Fred > Dr. Gross, C2K 1/21/04 > > ps - Your reference to Steelhead in another post, do you fish? > Muskegon is close to some great river fishing spots for steelhead > and salmon. > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > > crutches > > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are > a > > lot > > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > > whole > > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't > bothering > > > me > > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for > your > > > > help. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Fred, I was thinking about crutches after surgery. Curently, I just walk with a limp. I haven't graduated to a cane yet. I may try 800 Ibuprofens as my next step. I worry about using Tylenol due to possible kidney damage. I do fish some and go out with my brother-in- law who is rigged up with electric downriggers for Salmon fishing on Lake Michigan. I live on Bear Lake in North Muskegon, but usually go " boat drinking " rather than fishing. That flows much better with my wife who's not a fisherman, but can boat drink with the best of them. Stay tuned and I'll see if I get lucky with my HMO. Thanks Fred, > , > If your stomache can handle it, you could probably go to 800 mg of > ibuprofen for those days when you are more active. You may want to > check with your MD as that is perscription strength (what my MD > perscribed for me anyway). > > You can also take acetaminophen for the pain while you are taking > ibuprofen for the inflamation. I had asked an OS about that after > surgery for another operation that I had. If you still can't sleep, > try an OTC sleep aid. > > On the elbow crutches, are you needing something now or are you > thinking ahead to after surgery? Prior to surgery I used a cane if > I had to do much walking or was going to be on my feet long. After > surgery, I used under the arm crutches for 1-2 weeks, then a cane > and nothing after six weeks. I don't have any experience with the > elbow crutches. > > On the insurance, my HMO would not allow me to go out of network for > a problem they could take care of in network. They had a third > party provide a report on resurfacing vs. THR and they referred to > THR as " gold standard " . This does not consider age or patients > desired level of activity. But the insurance company is only > looking for a way to say NO! > > Regardless, go through the process (including appeals) with your > HMO. You have nothing to lose. Who knows, they may say yes. If > they do say no, you can change policies at open enrollment. > > Regards, > Fred > Dr. Gross, C2K 1/21/04 > > ps - Your reference to Steelhead in another post, do you fish? > Muskegon is close to some great river fishing spots for steelhead > and salmon. > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > >> 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > > crutches > > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are > a > > lot > > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > > whole > > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't > bothering > > > me > > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. Thanks Everyone for > your > > > > help. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I'm on vacation today and getting addicted to this message board. I've got to go for a boat ride with my wife soon, or she is going to disown me. Mark, why would my insurance cover some of this now, and not in the 1st quarter of FY05? Is there an estimate of how much of your $16K they will cover? My thoughts were, if this procedure gets FDA approval around the end of this year or first part of next year, then the HMOs would probably cover it completely. Do you think that's not going to be the case? It makes so much sense as the right procedure for people, you'd think they would have a little more compassion that they are showing. > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm > qualified > > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for > October > > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this > type of > > > procedure? > > > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I > think > > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > > resurfacing. > > > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you > from > > getting this done!!! > > > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long > can I > > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? > Could > > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > > April. > > > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow > crutches > > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I > did > > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I'm on vacation today and getting addicted to this message board. I've got to go for a boat ride with my wife soon, or she is going to disown me. Mark, why would my insurance cover some of this now, and not in the 1st quarter of FY05? Is there an estimate of how much of your $16K they will cover? My thoughts were, if this procedure gets FDA approval around the end of this year or first part of next year, then the HMOs would probably cover it completely. Do you think that's not going to be the case? It makes so much sense as the right procedure for people, you'd think they would have a little more compassion that they are showing. > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm > qualified > > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for > October > > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this > type of > > > procedure? > > > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I > think > > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > > resurfacing. > > > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you > from > > getting this done!!! > > > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long > can I > > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? > Could > > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > > April. > > > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow > crutches > > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I > did > > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 > Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts > on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is > so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would > be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? I think your least expensive option would probably be to go to Apollo Hospital in Chennai, India: http://www.hipresurfacingindia.com/web_links.htm So much for Bush's statement (January 28, 2004) that we have " the best healthcare system in the world " . > Or, if my hip doesn't > wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would > probably come by Februrary or March of next year. It depends. applied for market approval of the C+ in December 2003 (December 8, I think). Most of us thought approval would follow the March meeting of the orthopedic devices advisory panel, but that meeting was cancelled. Then we thought it would follow the June advisory panel, but that one was cancelled,too. Then we thought it would come after the August panel meeting. Guess what? The August meeting was also cancelled. The next scheduled panel meeting is in December, which is why people are talking about February. This all depends on whether the lazy bastards actually decide to do some work. Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 > Steve, from what I've been reading the last couple of days in posts > on this site is if my insurance won't cover thie procdeure, which is > so close to FDA approval it kills me, my least expensive option would > be to go to Belgium and get it done there??? I think your least expensive option would probably be to go to Apollo Hospital in Chennai, India: http://www.hipresurfacingindia.com/web_links.htm So much for Bush's statement (January 28, 2004) that we have " the best healthcare system in the world " . > Or, if my hip doesn't > wear down too fast, I could wait until FDA approval, which would > probably come by Februrary or March of next year. It depends. applied for market approval of the C+ in December 2003 (December 8, I think). Most of us thought approval would follow the March meeting of the orthopedic devices advisory panel, but that meeting was cancelled. Then we thought it would follow the June advisory panel, but that one was cancelled,too. Then we thought it would come after the August panel meeting. Guess what? The August meeting was also cancelled. The next scheduled panel meeting is in December, which is why people are talking about February. This all depends on whether the lazy bastards actually decide to do some work. Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi , Your going down a well-traveled road in trying to get insurance coverage for resurfacing. In dealing with my PPO, I went through a few emotional stages before becoming total jaded on health care insurance in the United States. Not that it's much better in the rest of the world. Initially I thought it was possible to reason with my provider, after all I had a great story – they approved my first resurfacing but denied the second. I got nowhere and received a boilerplate denial. After sound reasoning didn't work I was downheartened, but I considered it a challenge and went all out on my appeal. I had a great appeal letter with several pages of factual information to address their one sentence reason for denial. It got their attention so they pulled out some big guns, and in the end could not medically substantiate their denial so they ended up saying they had a legal right to exclude investigational devices. I was pretty angry so I talked with a couple of attorneys specializing in insurance and was about to file a lawsuit. But wait, there's more. The internal systems of insurance companies are so screwed up that mine actually paid for most of my surgery even after their preauth denial! How crazy is that? So I naturally bagged the legal action and considered myself very lucky. I understand that with most HMOs you need to get a referral to a specialist from your primary care physician. Additionally, the surgeon may need to be a network partner, meaning they've established a relationship with the HMO. Even with FDA approval, HMO coverage might be a problem as it depends to a large part on your primary care physician and his/her comfort level with the resurfacing as opposed to THR. You can ask prospective resurfacing surgeons about their HMO experiences. If you can't swing the $17,500 cash price for Belgium or JRI, and you don't want to wait the estimated 7 –9 months (hopefully sooner) for FDA approval, you may want to consider a large head, Metal on Metal THR. See http://www.wmt.com/bigfemoralhead/patients/default.asp for the manufacturer's info. It's FDA approved and probably the next best option to resurfacing. Again, ask prospective surgeons about it and keep doing your homework. Hang in there and stay positive. Dave, C+, Amstutz, 3.24.98, 2.12.04 > > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. > Gross's > > > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm > > qualified > > > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for > > October > > > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this > > type of > > > > procedure? > > > > > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I > > think > > > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > > > resurfacing. > > > > > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you > > from > > > getting this done!!! > > > > > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long > > can I > > > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? > > Could > > > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > > > > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss > this > > > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > > > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced > in > > > April. > > > > > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > > crutches > > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > > lot > > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > > > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > > > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow > > crutches > > > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was > too > > > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but > after > > > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. > I > > did > > > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > > > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > > whole > > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't > bothering > > me > > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > > > > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think > I > > > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > > > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > > > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > > > > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 , If you read Fred Steelhead's point it is exactly what I was trying to lead you on. There are two points to take into consideration: Assuming the FDA approves the procedure in the U.S. by next year first semester, then all Health Insurance Co. will deny any claim filed for procedures done overseas. Why, because it will not make sense to pay for overseas resurfacing when there will be the same kind of services here at home. This will be great for many of us, and I am for it. But as Fred well meant, it will take sometime until we see standards to the level where all hippies qualify for resurfacing here at home. There will be a generation of hippies who will require experient OS for their resurfacing. So, those with less chances in the U.S. who decided to go overseas prior FDA approval, will get some reimbursement. For those with complicated cases requiring more experient OS, after FDA approval, there will be no reimbursment. I may be wrong, but this makes a lot of sense to me. Mark. Prentice theprentices@...> wrote: I'm on vacation today and getting addicted to this message board. I've got to go for a boat ride with my wife soon, or she is going to disown me. Mark, why would my insurance cover some of this now, and not in the 1st quarter of FY05? Is there an estimate of how much of your $16K they will cover? My thoughts were, if this procedure gets FDA approval around the end of this year or first part of next year, then the HMOs would probably cover it completely. Do you think that's not going to be the case? It makes so much sense as the right procedure for people, you'd think they would have a little more compassion that they are showing. > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm > qualified > > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for > October > > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this > type of > > > procedure? > > > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I > think > > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > > resurfacing. > > > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you > from > > getting this done!!! > > > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long > can I > > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? > Could > > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > > April. > > > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow > crutches > > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I > did > > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 , If you read Fred Steelhead's point it is exactly what I was trying to lead you on. There are two points to take into consideration: Assuming the FDA approves the procedure in the U.S. by next year first semester, then all Health Insurance Co. will deny any claim filed for procedures done overseas. Why, because it will not make sense to pay for overseas resurfacing when there will be the same kind of services here at home. This will be great for many of us, and I am for it. But as Fred well meant, it will take sometime until we see standards to the level where all hippies qualify for resurfacing here at home. There will be a generation of hippies who will require experient OS for their resurfacing. So, those with less chances in the U.S. who decided to go overseas prior FDA approval, will get some reimbursement. For those with complicated cases requiring more experient OS, after FDA approval, there will be no reimbursment. I may be wrong, but this makes a lot of sense to me. Mark. Prentice theprentices@...> wrote: I'm on vacation today and getting addicted to this message board. I've got to go for a boat ride with my wife soon, or she is going to disown me. Mark, why would my insurance cover some of this now, and not in the 1st quarter of FY05? Is there an estimate of how much of your $16K they will cover? My thoughts were, if this procedure gets FDA approval around the end of this year or first part of next year, then the HMOs would probably cover it completely. Do you think that's not going to be the case? It makes so much sense as the right procedure for people, you'd think they would have a little more compassion that they are showing. > > > Thanks for the feedback on doctors. I sent a note to Dr. Gross's > > > assistant yesterday to see how I start the process, if I'm > qualified > > > & if my HMO will cover the procedure. I'm going to shoot for > October > > > if that fits in their schedule. A few questions: > > > > > > 1) Does anyone have any feedback on if HMOs are covering this > type of > > > procedure? > > > > Insurance converage varies a lot from company to company, but I > think > > it's fair to say that HMOs in general are less likely to cover > > resurfacing. > > > > Don't let some greedy, penny-pinching insurance company keep you > from > > getting this done!!! > > > > > 2) My X-Ray looks like the cartilage is about gone, so how long > can I > > > wait before I will no longer be a candidate for resurfacing? > Could > > > October be too late, or is that too difficult to predict? > > > > It's difficult to predict. Obviously, it's best if you discuss this > > with Dr. Gross (he is, after all, the expert). Just as a point of > > information, I went bone-on-bone last November and was resurfaced in > > April. > > > > > 3) Elbow Crutches? Just saw a post that said to get elbow > crutches > > > instead of the under arm style. Do those work better and are a > lot > > > of people using them? I never thought much about if before. > > > > They're more compact, easier to handle, and they're *much* more > > comfortable. I think they take a little more upper body work to > > stabilize. I had both (underarm crutches from JRI, and elbow > crutches > > that were lent to me by a friend). What I found was this: I was too > > wobbly to use the elbow crutches the first couple of days, but after > > that I put the underarm crutches away and never used them again. I > did > > find that I had to be careful with the elbow crutches when I had > > worked up a sweat (my upper arms tended to slip out of them). > > > > > > > > Couldn't sleep tonight, pain in the hip and thinking about the > whole > > > replacement process. Just when I thought my hip wasn't bothering > me > > > that much, it was killing me yesterday. > > > > I was in a lot of pain right before my surgery, but I don't think I > > realized just how bad the pain had been until I woke up in the > > recovery room and it was *gone*. It's really insidious the way > > constant pain eats away at your quality of life. > > > > Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.