Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi Morag I can understand how stressed and worried you are. If I were in your position I would ring the consultant that you have already seen privately and ask him (directly or via his secretary) how many months your hip can wait. He may wish you to send over the x- ray (that I presume he took when you saw him??) in order to answer you. That will either allay your fears or give you the 'evidence' to discuss how you could be treated as an emergency on the NHS. Good luck and please post what happens. ine LHS April 03 RHS March 04 Mr Treacy > Hi Folks > > I'm in a lot of pain - I can't walk far at all, I limp very very > heavily, and my bones grind and pop when I try to move anywhere. I > cant's stand up/sit down easily. I can't put on shoes or socks etc > etc (you all know what I'm talking about.) I feel like I'm getting > less and less flexible daily... Is all this this 'normal' whan > waiting for a resurf? I'm worried that my hip might deteriorate past > the point of a resurfacing by the time my place comes up on a > waiting list. > > I'm 22 and am on a waiting list to see a consultant I've already > seen privately! I had to see him privately cos I'm from Glasgow and > no-one up here performs this procedure. During the private > consultation he said I'd be a suitable candidate for resurfacing but > that I'd have to have it done in Birmingham (uk). However - I now > have to have exactly the same consultation with the same doctor > (again in Birmingham) to get put on the NHS waiting list. Waiting > list to see him = 15 weeks. After that, waiting list for operation = > 7 -12 months. That's an awful long time to wait if I'm gonna be past > the point that a resurf is possible by the time my place comes up. > > Is there anything I should/shouldn't be doing at the moment to > protect myself? Should I get on my consultants back? (not literally - > I do have arthritis you know! ;0) ) I don't want to try to skip > the NHS queue if everyone on it is in the same boat as me. But if > I'm much worse and only gonna get much much worse I might make an > effort. > > > ANy advice anyone? It would be greatly appreciated! I'm very very > stressed about this? > > THanks > > Morag > xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi Morag I can understand how stressed and worried you are. If I were in your position I would ring the consultant that you have already seen privately and ask him (directly or via his secretary) how many months your hip can wait. He may wish you to send over the x- ray (that I presume he took when you saw him??) in order to answer you. That will either allay your fears or give you the 'evidence' to discuss how you could be treated as an emergency on the NHS. Good luck and please post what happens. ine LHS April 03 RHS March 04 Mr Treacy > Hi Folks > > I'm in a lot of pain - I can't walk far at all, I limp very very > heavily, and my bones grind and pop when I try to move anywhere. I > cant's stand up/sit down easily. I can't put on shoes or socks etc > etc (you all know what I'm talking about.) I feel like I'm getting > less and less flexible daily... Is all this this 'normal' whan > waiting for a resurf? I'm worried that my hip might deteriorate past > the point of a resurfacing by the time my place comes up on a > waiting list. > > I'm 22 and am on a waiting list to see a consultant I've already > seen privately! I had to see him privately cos I'm from Glasgow and > no-one up here performs this procedure. During the private > consultation he said I'd be a suitable candidate for resurfacing but > that I'd have to have it done in Birmingham (uk). However - I now > have to have exactly the same consultation with the same doctor > (again in Birmingham) to get put on the NHS waiting list. Waiting > list to see him = 15 weeks. After that, waiting list for operation = > 7 -12 months. That's an awful long time to wait if I'm gonna be past > the point that a resurf is possible by the time my place comes up. > > Is there anything I should/shouldn't be doing at the moment to > protect myself? Should I get on my consultants back? (not literally - > I do have arthritis you know! ;0) ) I don't want to try to skip > the NHS queue if everyone on it is in the same boat as me. But if > I'm much worse and only gonna get much much worse I might make an > effort. > > > ANy advice anyone? It would be greatly appreciated! I'm very very > stressed about this? > > THanks > > Morag > xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi Morag I can understand how stressed and worried you are. If I were in your position I would ring the consultant that you have already seen privately and ask him (directly or via his secretary) how many months your hip can wait. He may wish you to send over the x- ray (that I presume he took when you saw him??) in order to answer you. That will either allay your fears or give you the 'evidence' to discuss how you could be treated as an emergency on the NHS. Good luck and please post what happens. ine LHS April 03 RHS March 04 Mr Treacy > Hi Folks > > I'm in a lot of pain - I can't walk far at all, I limp very very > heavily, and my bones grind and pop when I try to move anywhere. I > cant's stand up/sit down easily. I can't put on shoes or socks etc > etc (you all know what I'm talking about.) I feel like I'm getting > less and less flexible daily... Is all this this 'normal' whan > waiting for a resurf? I'm worried that my hip might deteriorate past > the point of a resurfacing by the time my place comes up on a > waiting list. > > I'm 22 and am on a waiting list to see a consultant I've already > seen privately! I had to see him privately cos I'm from Glasgow and > no-one up here performs this procedure. During the private > consultation he said I'd be a suitable candidate for resurfacing but > that I'd have to have it done in Birmingham (uk). However - I now > have to have exactly the same consultation with the same doctor > (again in Birmingham) to get put on the NHS waiting list. Waiting > list to see him = 15 weeks. After that, waiting list for operation = > 7 -12 months. That's an awful long time to wait if I'm gonna be past > the point that a resurf is possible by the time my place comes up. > > Is there anything I should/shouldn't be doing at the moment to > protect myself? Should I get on my consultants back? (not literally - > I do have arthritis you know! ;0) ) I don't want to try to skip > the NHS queue if everyone on it is in the same boat as me. But if > I'm much worse and only gonna get much much worse I might make an > effort. > > > ANy advice anyone? It would be greatly appreciated! I'm very very > stressed about this? > > THanks > > Morag > xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Morag, You sound like your in need of an appointment before me. I too am waiting to see an OS in Birmingham UK on the NHS his name is Mr. Treacy. If it's the same one, then I will happilly swap appointments with you, to bring yours forward if mine is before yours. Once you have been put on the waiting list, you can offer to take a cancellation appointment which should cut your waiting time. I've been told that they are very good at that sort of thing at the Birmingham Royal orth hospital.Skip the queue if you can.!!! Zoe > Hi Folks > > I'm in a lot of pain - I can't walk far at all, I limp very very > heavily, and my bones grind and pop when I try to move anywhere. I > cant's stand up/sit down easily. I can't put on shoes or socks etc > etc (you all know what I'm talking about.) I feel like I'm getting > less and less flexible daily... Is all this this 'normal' whan > waiting for a resurf? I'm worried that my hip might deteriorate past > the point of a resurfacing by the time my place comes up on a > waiting list. > > I'm 22 and am on a waiting list to see a consultant I've already > seen privately! I had to see him privately cos I'm from Glasgow and > no-one up here performs this procedure. During the private > consultation he said I'd be a suitable candidate for resurfacing but > that I'd have to have it done in Birmingham (uk). However - I now > have to have exactly the same consultation with the same doctor > (again in Birmingham) to get put on the NHS waiting list. Waiting > list to see him = 15 weeks. After that, waiting list for operation = > 7 -12 months. That's an awful long time to wait if I'm gonna be past > the point that a resurf is possible by the time my place comes up. > > Is there anything I should/shouldn't be doing at the moment to > protect myself? Should I get on my consultants back? (not literally - > I do have arthritis you know! ;0) ) I don't want to try to skip > the NHS queue if everyone on it is in the same boat as me. But if > I'm much worse and only gonna get much much worse I might make an > effort. > > > ANy advice anyone? It would be greatly appreciated! I'm very very > stressed about this? > > THanks > > Morag > xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Morag, You sound like your in need of an appointment before me. I too am waiting to see an OS in Birmingham UK on the NHS his name is Mr. Treacy. If it's the same one, then I will happilly swap appointments with you, to bring yours forward if mine is before yours. Once you have been put on the waiting list, you can offer to take a cancellation appointment which should cut your waiting time. I've been told that they are very good at that sort of thing at the Birmingham Royal orth hospital.Skip the queue if you can.!!! Zoe > Hi Folks > > I'm in a lot of pain - I can't walk far at all, I limp very very > heavily, and my bones grind and pop when I try to move anywhere. I > cant's stand up/sit down easily. I can't put on shoes or socks etc > etc (you all know what I'm talking about.) I feel like I'm getting > less and less flexible daily... Is all this this 'normal' whan > waiting for a resurf? I'm worried that my hip might deteriorate past > the point of a resurfacing by the time my place comes up on a > waiting list. > > I'm 22 and am on a waiting list to see a consultant I've already > seen privately! I had to see him privately cos I'm from Glasgow and > no-one up here performs this procedure. During the private > consultation he said I'd be a suitable candidate for resurfacing but > that I'd have to have it done in Birmingham (uk). However - I now > have to have exactly the same consultation with the same doctor > (again in Birmingham) to get put on the NHS waiting list. Waiting > list to see him = 15 weeks. After that, waiting list for operation = > 7 -12 months. That's an awful long time to wait if I'm gonna be past > the point that a resurf is possible by the time my place comes up. > > Is there anything I should/shouldn't be doing at the moment to > protect myself? Should I get on my consultants back? (not literally - > I do have arthritis you know! ;0) ) I don't want to try to skip > the NHS queue if everyone on it is in the same boat as me. But if > I'm much worse and only gonna get much much worse I might make an > effort. > > > ANy advice anyone? It would be greatly appreciated! I'm very very > stressed about this? > > THanks > > Morag > xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Basically it's a supply and demand issue. The NHS waiting time varies from one part of the country to another i.e Patients in Manchester may have a 12 month wait whereas for Birmingham the wait could be half that. We also have a situation in the UK with a large population in a small country in that 90% of this population live within a 20 mile (32 kilometre) of a large hospital. Patients are intransigent and wish to use the local hospital and are not prepared to travel to one with lower waiting times. In the US it would be normal to travel hundreds of miles for an OS but in the UK this would be almost unheard of. A number of patients are not willing to take up cancellation appointments. For some there are very good reasons why they need at least a couple of weeks notice to take up such a cancellation. However most cancellations are done at the last minute. With the NHS critical patients take priority and are taken in immediately. Arthritic hips are not life threatening and therefore not critical so less funds are allocated. The current government is striving for a maximum English waiting list of 6 months. More money is allocated per head of population in Wales and Scotland who administer their own NHS but the funding for specific treatments can be lower than England's. One problem we have in the UK is care of the elderly - they can tie up a bed because there is no one that could give post operation care at their home. Some areas of the country have higher levels of older people than others. A younger person takes up a bed for say 5 days whilst two or three times that may be needed for older people We used to have convalescent hospitals which freed up the font line hospital beds but sadly these were got rid of as a cost cutting exercise There is also a shortage of NHS doctors and nurses. Most doctors work in both the private and public sectors so they can only devote a certain number of hours per week to the NHS - the NHS cannot get extra hours by increasing overtime which would increase the backlog. There are loads of other reasons but the ones stated are foremost in my mind. More funding would help but politically to increase taxation to pay for it would be unpopular. Personally I prefer to have both private and state medicine as is the current UK system - It does mean that everyone has free access to health care. For my hip resurfacing I travelled 50 miles to Birmingham and had my first hip operated on 4 months after seeing the OS - the second hip being done 2 months later. I can only speak as I find and having hip resurfacing at no cost is something I can't complain about. Rog BHR both hips 2001 Ronan Treacy RE: WAITING LIST BLUES!! > Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Joyce, Waiting lists in various countries reflect how the various govts allocate health care monies and the priority given to health care as against whether the govt want to spend said collected tax money on other things like education, war etc............. So often these allocations get further broken down by the various lobby groups that operate and how vocal they get from time to time i.e. whether health care money gets spent on preventative health care, research into cancer and heart matters, buying very expensive pieces of equipment for the use of a few etc. Sadly while we would all agree that hip surgery is critical it could well be getting measured up against something like heart surgery or a kidney transplant and thus loses out somewhat............ Further, I have rarely met health officials who seem to have the ability to think things through to the extent that they may see that having someone get their hip replaced may save considerable money down the track because they managed to keep their general health in a better state. I am glad to hear there are folk like yourself who are prepared to compaign for reform - may you be successful. Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02 > Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Joyce, Waiting lists in various countries reflect how the various govts allocate health care monies and the priority given to health care as against whether the govt want to spend said collected tax money on other things like education, war etc............. So often these allocations get further broken down by the various lobby groups that operate and how vocal they get from time to time i.e. whether health care money gets spent on preventative health care, research into cancer and heart matters, buying very expensive pieces of equipment for the use of a few etc. Sadly while we would all agree that hip surgery is critical it could well be getting measured up against something like heart surgery or a kidney transplant and thus loses out somewhat............ Further, I have rarely met health officials who seem to have the ability to think things through to the extent that they may see that having someone get their hip replaced may save considerable money down the track because they managed to keep their general health in a better state. I am glad to hear there are folk like yourself who are prepared to compaign for reform - may you be successful. Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02 > Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Joyce, Waiting lists in various countries reflect how the various govts allocate health care monies and the priority given to health care as against whether the govt want to spend said collected tax money on other things like education, war etc............. So often these allocations get further broken down by the various lobby groups that operate and how vocal they get from time to time i.e. whether health care money gets spent on preventative health care, research into cancer and heart matters, buying very expensive pieces of equipment for the use of a few etc. Sadly while we would all agree that hip surgery is critical it could well be getting measured up against something like heart surgery or a kidney transplant and thus loses out somewhat............ Further, I have rarely met health officials who seem to have the ability to think things through to the extent that they may see that having someone get their hip replaced may save considerable money down the track because they managed to keep their general health in a better state. I am glad to hear there are folk like yourself who are prepared to compaign for reform - may you be successful. Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02 > Hi, folks. I've been a campaigner for health care reform here in the US. But I keep reading about these long waiting lists in Canada and the UK. This is for " elective " surgery? Is hip pain/arthritis not a critical surgery? How is it, generally, with these waiting lists? And why are the waiting lists so long? Thanks, Joyce (LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Thanks, everyone, for writing to explain the waiting list issues. The thing about allocating money is interesting. I mean, here in the good ol' US, money is a HUGE factor. There are so many, many people who do not have insurance. I have it only because I'm employed where health insurance is part of the benefits, but for many years I had no health insurance. If my hip problem had reached its peak during those days, well.... In this country it seems that the pharmaceutical companies get rich, the research & development companies get rich, the insurance CEO's get rich -- the doctors do okay money-wise but have huge overhead w/ malpractice insurance and having to hire a cast of thousands to do all the paperwork. It's the patient who is sort of lost in the great shuffle. There is Medicare for the elderly (but that barely covers things and hasn't given RX drug coverage) and there's Medicaid for the very poor -- and that usually covers the children. The whole damned system is, to my mind, immoral. So I have always admired Canada and the UK for their progressive healthcare delivery system. And still do. What you've said about money going for other things: war, etc., drives me crazy! The US just allocated more than $87 BILLION for rebuilding Iraq -- and the same government, which now runs an enormous deficit, get righteous about " socialist medical care. " So that's why I was asking about how the system works in Canada and the UK. One of the scare tactics to defeat reform here is: " Do you want those long waiting lists?? " Well, no I don't. But there must be something reasonable between healthcare for the privileged and no care for the rest of the population! How about not charging $10 per asprin in the hospital? Ah well... As you can see, I can get going on quite a rant about the whole thing. I just know that I was lucky to be employed where health insurance is provided. Otherwise I wouldn't even be on a waiting list -- I'd just be SOL! Thanks for explaining things to me. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Joyce You're better off with both systems running parallel i.e. socialized and private. One problem with the socialized medicine is that because it's free - even to see your GP - then more people take up that right. People even go to the doctors for something to take for a cold instead of going to the chemist/drug store. This also clogs up the system. If it's free more people want it - that is a fact of life. I have Parkinson's and a ruptured Achilles tendon that couldn't be repaired at the time (now it's too late) and am out of work at 56 years of age. This reinforces my belief in good quality social medicine for all. Our system also allows for certain treatment to be free for other nationalities, especially those from other EEC countries - guess what? Yes this also hinders the waiting times. Rog BHR both hips 2001 Ronan Treacy Re: WAITING LIST BLUES!! > Thanks, everyone, for writing to explain the waiting list issues. The thing about allocating money is interesting. I mean, here in the good ol' US, money is a HUGE factor. There are so many, many people who do not have insurance. I have it only because I'm employed where health insurance is part of the benefits, but for many years I had no health insurance. If my hip problem had reached its peak during those days, well.... In this country it seems that the pharmaceutical companies get rich, the research & development companies get rich, the insurance CEO's get rich -- the doctors do okay money-wise but have huge overhead w/ malpractice insurance and having to hire a cast of thousands to do all the paperwork. It's the patient who is sort of lost in the great shuffle. There is Medicare for the elderly (but that barely covers things and hasn't given RX drug coverage) and there's Medicaid for the very poor -- and that usually covers the children. The whole damned system is > , to my mind, immoral. So I have always admired Canada and the UK for their progressive healthcare delivery system. And still do. What you've said about money going for other things: war, etc., drives me crazy! The US just allocated more than $87 BILLION for rebuilding Iraq -- and the same government, which now runs an enormous deficit, get righteous about " socialist medical care. " So that's why I was asking about how the system works in Canada and the UK. One of the scare tactics to defeat reform here is: " Do you want those long waiting lists?? " Well, no I don't. But there must be something reasonable between healthcare for the privileged and no care for the rest of the population! How about not charging $10 per asprin in the hospital? Ah well... As you can see, I can get going on quite a rant about the whole thing. I just know that I was lucky to be employed where health insurance is provided. Otherwise I wouldn't even be on a waiting list -- I'd just be SOL! > Thanks for explaining things to me. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 They try to tell us in Canada that we have the best healthcare system too - NOT. It is true that if you are almost on your deathbed you will get cared for, but prior to that unless you " know " someone you can forget it. At least in the Europe and in the States you have options - as in you can pay for it if you want. We can't do that here because that would be two tier and it is much better for everyone to suffer equally than to let someone pay and not only get done quickly be get off the waiting list for heaven's sake. I know the logic of that escapes me too. The result is that we still have a two tier system because those of us who are willing to make some sort of financial sacrifice (whether it's a second mortgage, borrow from family or just raid our retirement savings - granted there some with enough money they can just write a cheque too and that's OK) do it and go the England or Europe or even to the States. I recently found out that a woman who had been waiting two years in Oct of 2002 for a hip and who gave up and went to Belgium, just recently go " the call " from the doctor here for hip surgery. That would have been almost 3.5 YEARS on the wait list. We were told in Belgium that the people there are upset if they have to 4-5 weeks to speak to a specialist (in my dreams). I would take the US options or the public/private option any day over what we have here. In my opinion it is simply a universally inaccessible system, and the result is that everyone working in the system is angry and upset with everyone else... the doctors can't get OR time so they tell you to complain to the hospitals, the hospitals tell you they can't get the staff to work one minute past the " union time frames (a woman I know was all hooked up to her intravenous antibiotics on the table when the hospital cancelled her surgery because they couldn't get staff to work a minute overtime and since the surgery before her had gone over the alloted 1.5 hours, there just wasn't enough time to fit her in). Blames flies all over the place between hospital staff, authorities, doctors, government etc., etc., but nothing every changes and of course it's the patient who suffer every time. Unless you are very poor you have to pay for physio, massage, drugs, acupuncture, chiro, eye exams - all of that - no matter how much you need. I do not believe it is possible to have a fully funded public medical system - it is just too expensive and as Rog says when people think it is free it is abused over and over again. There is no way we can have the best people, machines, research etc on the public dollar so why not run parallel systems and allow those who are willing to pay pay and in that way get something besides tax dollars into the system. Why not let us spend the money we made in Canada right here in our own country? Everyone will win in the end. End of rant (for now!!) Pamela LBHR De Smet Oct 2002 > Hi Joyce > You're better off with both systems running parallel i.e. socialized and > private. One problem with the socialized medicine is that because it's > free - even to see your GP - then more people take up that right. People > even go to the doctors for something to take for a cold instead of going to > the chemist/drug store. This also clogs up the system. If it's free more > people want it - that is a fact of life. I have Parkinson's and a ruptured > Achilles tendon that couldn't be repaired at the time (now it's too late) > and am out of work at 56 years of age. This reinforces my belief in good > quality social medicine for all. Our system also allows for certain > treatment to be free for other nationalities, especially those from other > EEC countries - guess what? Yes this also hinders the waiting times. > Rog > BHR both hips 2001 Ronan Treacy > > Re: WAITING LIST BLUES!! > > > > Thanks, everyone, for writing to explain the waiting list issues. The > thing about allocating money is interesting. I mean, here in the good ol' > US, money is a HUGE factor. There are so many, many people who do not have > insurance. I have it only because I'm employed where health insurance is > part of the benefits, but for many years I had no health insurance. If my > hip problem had reached its peak during those days, well.... In this > country it seems that the pharmaceutical companies get rich, the research & > development companies get rich, the insurance CEO's get rich -- the doctors > do okay money-wise but have huge overhead w/ malpractice insurance and > having to hire a cast of thousands to do all the paperwork. It's the > patient who is sort of lost in the great shuffle. There is Medicare for the > elderly (but that barely covers things and hasn't given RX drug coverage) > and there's Medicaid for the very poor -- and that usually covers the > children. The whole damned system is > > , to my mind, immoral. So I have always admired Canada and the UK for > their progressive healthcare delivery system. And still do. What you've > said about money going for other things: war, etc., drives me crazy! The US > just allocated more than $87 BILLION for rebuilding Iraq -- and the same > government, which now runs an enormous deficit, get righteous about > " socialist medical care. " So that's why I was asking about how the system > works in Canada and the UK. One of the scare tactics to defeat reform here > is: " Do you want those long waiting lists?? " Well, no I don't. But there > must be something reasonable between healthcare for the privileged and no > care for the rest of the population! How about not charging $10 per asprin > in the hospital? Ah well... As you can see, I can get going on quite a rant > about the whole thing. I just know that I was lucky to be employed where > health insurance is provided. Otherwise I wouldn't even be on a waiting > list -- I'd just be SOL! > > Thanks for explaining things to me. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Yeah, I think that's a good idea, i.e., parallel systems. Then there's the issue of what's " necessary " health care and what is not? We all know that the pain and disability of bad hips is no laughing matter -- I wouldn't have put it in the " necessary " category until I experienced it. Actually, the doc(s) I'd seen prior to diagnosis of hip OA kept encouraging me to have back surgery! The thing is, it's obvious that cosmetic face lifts, etc. are not necessary. But what about someone struggling to walk, get to work, do his/her job?? Can't do it because of hip OA. And there are, I know, many other conditions which totally effect the quality of life. What happens to the person who gets a cancer diagnosis and has no health insurance?? It just is wrong that the basics of life are the things that cost the most: health care, food, housing. Since I don't know any mystics who can do with out, all of us depend upon these things to stay alive. The idea of insurance, i.e., we all pay in to a pool so that when someone needs the care, the money is available -- is a good one. No one thought about the CEO's (or whoever) taking their cut right off the top -- and taking a huge cut! Is that capitalism??? Nothing wrong with hard work rewarded with profit. But in those areas where folks must have the basics?? Something is wrong! I know people who, though they work at " good " full-time jobs, cannot even afford their part of health insurance coverage. Ah well...... This is not the forum for this, I reckon. I just feel so unbelievably lucky to have had the insurance coverage and the opportunity to see a top-flight surgeon --- and I know it's just that: luck. Actually, that's pretty scary. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Pamela I beg to differ - it is possible to have a universal publicly-funded health care system free at the point of delivery. I know, I lived in more than one society where this worked perfectly and for all. However, note the past tense in my sentence. When priorities change - wars seem to have become 'fashionable' again; wealth distribution is more unequal than it's been since the feudal times; profitability is the operative word even in public services - social systems suffer badly. You can find plenty of economists who will prove that publicly-funded health care systems are affordable today. Bare in mind that many a country introduced free health care for all after WW2 despite suffering badly during the war years and having to rebuild their countries, societies, infrastructures and having to foot massive war bills simultaneously. IT IS POSSIBLE - SADLY, IT IS NOT FASHIONABLE TO SAY SO, THINK SO, ACT SO IN THE SELFISH ERA OF FREE MARKET ECONOMY. Regards Dan Re: WAITING LIST BLUES!! They try to tell us in Canada that we have the best healthcare system too - NOT. It is true that if you are almost on your deathbed you will get cared for, but prior to that unless you " know " someone you can forget it. At least in the Europe and in the States you have options - as in you can pay for it if you want. We can't do that here because that would be two tier and it is much better for everyone to suffer equally than to let someone pay and not only get done quickly be get off the waiting list for heaven's sake. I know the logic of that escapes me too. The result is that we still have a two tier system because those of us who are willing to make some sort of financial sacrifice (whether it's a second mortgage, borrow from family or just raid our retirement savings - granted there some with enough money they can just write a cheque too and that's OK) do it and go the England or Europe or even to the States. I recently found out that a woman who had been waiting two years in Oct of 2002 for a hip and who gave up and went to Belgium, just recently go " the call " from the doctor here for hip surgery. That would have been almost 3.5 YEARS on the wait list. We were told in Belgium that the people there are upset if they have to 4-5 weeks to speak to a specialist (in my dreams). I would take the US options or the public/private option any day over what we have here. In my opinion it is simply a universally inaccessible system, and the result is that everyone working in the system is angry and upset with everyone else... the doctors can't get OR time so they tell you to complain to the hospitals, the hospitals tell you they can't get the staff to work one minute past the " union time frames (a woman I know was all hooked up to her intravenous antibiotics on the table when the hospital cancelled her surgery because they couldn't get staff to work a minute overtime and since the surgery before her had gone over the alloted 1.5 hours, there just wasn't enough time to fit her in). Blames flies all over the place between hospital staff, authorities, doctors, government etc., etc., but nothing every changes and of course it's the patient who suffer every time. Unless you are very poor you have to pay for physio, massage, drugs, acupuncture, chiro, eye exams - all of that - no matter how much you need. I do not believe it is possible to have a fully funded public medical system - it is just too expensive and as Rog says when people think it is free it is abused over and over again. There is no way we can have the best people, machines, research etc on the public dollar so why not run parallel systems and allow those who are willing to pay pay and in that way get something besides tax dollars into the system. Why not let us spend the money we made in Canada right here in our own country? Everyone will win in the end. End of rant (for now!!) Pamela LBHR De Smet Oct 2002 > Hi Joyce > You're better off with both systems running parallel i.e. socialized and > private. One problem with the socialized medicine is that because it's > free - even to see your GP - then more people take up that right. People > even go to the doctors for something to take for a cold instead of going to > the chemist/drug store. This also clogs up the system. If it's free more > people want it - that is a fact of life. I have Parkinson's and a ruptured > Achilles tendon that couldn't be repaired at the time (now it's too late) > and am out of work at 56 years of age. This reinforces my belief in good > quality social medicine for all. Our system also allows for certain > treatment to be free for other nationalities, especially those from other > EEC countries - guess what? Yes this also hinders the waiting times. > Rog > BHR both hips 2001 Ronan Treacy > > Re: WAITING LIST BLUES!! > > > > Thanks, everyone, for writing to explain the waiting list issues. The > thing about allocating money is interesting. I mean, here in the good ol' > US, money is a HUGE factor. There are so many, many people who do not have > insurance. I have it only because I'm employed where health insurance is > part of the benefits, but for many years I had no health insurance. If my > hip problem had reached its peak during those days, well.... In this > country it seems that the pharmaceutical companies get rich, the research & > development companies get rich, the insurance CEO's get rich -- the doctors > do okay money-wise but have huge overhead w/ malpractice insurance and > having to hire a cast of thousands to do all the paperwork. It's the > patient who is sort of lost in the great shuffle. There is Medicare for the > elderly (but that barely covers things and hasn't given RX drug coverage) > and there's Medicaid for the very poor -- and that usually covers the > children. The whole damned system is > > , to my mind, immoral. So I have always admired Canada and the UK for > their progressive healthcare delivery system. And still do. What you've > said about money going for other things: war, etc., drives me crazy! The US > just allocated more than $87 BILLION for rebuilding Iraq -- and the same > government, which now runs an enormous deficit, get righteous about > " socialist medical care. " So that's why I was asking about how the system > works in Canada and the UK. One of the scare tactics to defeat reform here > is: " Do you want those long waiting lists?? " Well, no I don't. But there > must be something reasonable between healthcare for the privileged and no > care for the rest of the population! How about not charging $10 per asprin > in the hospital? Ah well... As you can see, I can get going on quite a rant > about the whole thing. I just know that I was lucky to be employed where > health insurance is provided. Otherwise I wouldn't even be on a waiting > list -- I'd just be SOL! > > Thanks for explaining things to me. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Maybe this question of un affordable health care comes down to: How much is enough? That is the salient question about any sort of venture for profit, isn't it? I mean, how much is enough? And does every single venture fall into " for sale? " Is health care " for sale? " Obviously. And someone is making profits. Huge profits. Do human beings have any vestige of a moral code which affirms that every human is -- what? -- worthy of the basics? Food, shelter, health care, education? ARE those the basics? Benevolence? Welfare? Socialism? I don't know. But I do know that the insurance/provider/healthcare system -- as it stands -- is a total crap shoot. I read where JRI's prospective hip patients get denied coverage. My doc has his own methods of getting it accepted. Somebody we don't know, who has who-knows-what credentials sits in some office and decides, according to a formula, who gets treatment and who doesn't??? If the insurance carrier I have, through my employment, had turned down my surgery -- what the heck would I have done then??? I know what I would have done: a THR with a local surgeon who didn't even want to answer my questions! Anyway -- there must be a better way. Joyce (Dr Gross, LHR, 2/04) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi Dan, Australia is one country where once we did have that and now it is collapsing. Various States had slightly different versions of a universal publicly-funded health care system that was free - mine was one of the best........ While it still sort of exists the levels of govt are attempting to force the funding onto each other, the State cutting services, creating long waiting times to even see a doctor so people are forced to see private doctors and claim on the Commonwealth...... while the C'wealth keeps the rebate low so the number of bulk billing doctors are small and patients appear to be the last thing on anyones mind.............. Much of this started to deteriorate before we got ourselves embroiled in an expensive invasion of Iraq but it sure isn't helping.......... The general costs of health care seem to have blown out for a variety of reasons, i.e. the major being expensive equipment that has become a 'must have', the cost of heavily prescribed drugs, aging population that tie up beds, and the obsession with quality care standards that seems to care more about having something that meets standards even if that means no patients............ Sadly I don't see the political will to do much more than attempt to 'privatize' as much of the scene as possible which of course has little hope of making it work for everyone............. But of course it sounds nice in this day an age of free market economy............ I just regard myself as extremely lucky as I had enough health insurance and family support to get my Resurface........... Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02 > > I beg to differ - it is possible to have a universal publicly-funded health > care system free at the point of delivery. I know, I lived in more than one > society where this worked perfectly and for all. However, note the past > tense in my sentence. When priorities change - wars seem to have become > 'fashionable' again; wealth distribution is more unequal than it's been > since the feudal times; profitability is the operative word even in public > services - social systems suffer badly. > > You can find plenty of economists who will prove that publicly-funded health > care systems are affordable today. Bare in mind that many a country > introduced free health care for all after WW2 despite suffering badly during > the war years and having to rebuild their countries, societies, > infrastructures and having to foot massive war bills simultaneously. IT IS > POSSIBLE - SADLY, IT IS NOT FASHIONABLE TO SAY SO, THINK SO, ACT SO IN THE > SELFISH ERA OF FREE MARKET ECONOMY. > > Regards > Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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