Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yep - see 'em on the ALS sheets but not the BLS sheets. Thanks. Mg new NR skills sheets I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us about are - Pediatric Respiratory Compromise Cardiac Arrest with AED Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone Immobilization and Joint Immobilization I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your time. Jane Dinsmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 A perfect example of NREMT not communicating with it's shareholders. At the very least they should announce to those waiting to test which forms are to be used and at which times. A simple notice on their website homepage would do the trick. Sent from my iPhone McGee, EMT-P > So; a question on behalf of everyone about to take these tests: is this change going to be implemented immediately? I was informed during my course that registry would not change skills or written until November, and so I would not need to worry about it. Should I prepare for one or both tests to be different now? > > Regards, > > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B > CPR Instructor > > > Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone > > On Jun 30, 2011, at 9:32, " knavarro141 " kenneth.navarro@...> wrote: > > > >>> The Reps were informed, I received my new manual a couple of weeks ago. .... I have never found NREMT to be unaccountable. They have always been very responsive to my questions. <<< > > > > (and and others), > > > > How are we ever going to raise a decent mob if you keep posting facts? > > > > Kenny Navarro > > Dallas > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 New NR skills evaluation forms went into effect upon receipt of the NR Reps, we were told by NR to discard any of the old forms we had. So in answer to your question, there is an immediate implementation. Berry From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Alyssa Woods Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:24 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Re: new NR skills sheets So; a question on behalf of everyone about to take these tests: is this change going to be implemented immediately? I was informed during my course that registry would not change skills or written until November, and so I would not need to worry about it. Should I prepare for one or both tests to be different now? Regards, Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B CPR Instructor Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone On Jun 30, 2011, at 9:32, " knavarro141 " kenneth.navarro@... > wrote: > >>> The Reps were informed, I received my new manual a couple of weeks ago. .... I have never found NREMT to be unaccountable. They have always been very responsive to my questions. <<< > > (and and others), > > How are we ever going to raise a decent mob if you keep posting facts? > > Kenny Navarro > Dallas > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Some historical perspective from an EMS Dinosaur. My opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of any of my affiliates or anybody else. There are pros and cons about NREMT. These are my thoughts, and mine only. The idea behind NREMT was great. It was designed to be a national clearing house for EMTs at all levels and provide the basis for reciprocity at all levels. Sadly, it has failed. And it will always fail given the lack of any unified understanding of what EMS standards ought to be. NREMT says its testing reflects tasks performed by EMTs, but its analysis is fatally flawed. It is fatally flawed because its premise is fatally flawed, and does not take into consideration the learning that is necessary for an EMT to gain the knowledge and experience to perform well in the field. NREMT tests lots of things that are largely irrelevant, and ignores things that are of major relevance, such as identification of STEMI and its variances. It gets a failing grade on this. When I started in EMS, in 1973, Texas did not require NREMT, nor did it for many years after. In those years, pre-1990-something when we switched to NR, we had an excellent testing program and excellent exams, all of which were, in my not so humble opinion, because I helped write them along with a number of others, better than the current NREMT exams. Our skills exams were superior to NREMT and would still be so today if they were in use, and our written exams were also. I worked on an ad hoc committee for years developing the skill testing criteria and the exam questions. The committee members were highly representative of EMS in Texas, and included people from all parts of the EMS system. But the state ran out of money for maintaining a testing program, and, in a series of events that should be viewed with the shame they deserve, the state of Texas went with NREMT without a valid RFP process, and, to this day, if my understanding is correct, without a contract, in direct violation of state contracting law. The state took the path of least resistance, and, overnight, and without the support of the majority of providers, suddenly became a NREMT state. There was much under-the-table and behind-the-scenes lobbying and jockeying that went on at that time, of which nobody ought to be proud. Many of the people involved are now dead and cannot speak. I was not privy to the insider negotiations that went on, but I know basically how they happened. Panic set in over the budget, and decisions were made that were, perhaps, not the best. There are other exam providers, and other states have engaged them rather than NREMT. NREMT has always promoted itself as being a force for standardization in EMS requirements, which would lead to reciprocity among all states for all NREMT-certifed folks. This is far from the truth. I have served on an exam writing committee and written exam questions for NREMT. The guidelines given us were, seemingly good, but in retrospect, did not result in questions that were always relevant to practice, regardless of the intentions. It is hard to write exam questions that are not flawed, and multiple choice questions are the least effective in determining competency. I only mention to you in passing what this meant to NREMT in terms of money. While NREMT is, as Kenny correctly says, a non-profit corporation, as Jane correctly says, all that means is that you can't show a profit consistently and must spend your money on salaries, expenses, and so forth. Gaining 50,000+ folks to charge for certifications was an enormous asset to NREMT. At one time, before Texas became a NREMT state, it was virtually impossible for a Texas EMT or Paramedic to pass a NREMT skill exam. There were no NR reps in Texas, so one had to go to Louisiana or Oklahoma to take the exams, and nobody ever passed the first time. It was, to put it bluntly, a scam. Keep 'em coming back and charge them the fees for retest. To be perfectly fair, I can't say that there was a connection between the practices of the local examiners in those states and NREMT. I suspect that there was not, but nevertheless, NREMT closed its eyes to it. The folks at the top of NREMT will deny that this ever existed, and so be it. They are very busy and probably don't have time to devote to these mundane matters. Once Texas became a NREMT state, things miraculously changed. Go figure. Now, to address the current kerfuffle. I attended a NREMT " roll-out " sometime late last year here in Tucson, at which the NREMT reps laid out the changes that were going to be made. Most of us in attendance thought they were good changes and supported them. They told us that changes were coming, and we knew that. But we didn't expect to see the changes show up without publicity that they had been put into effect. NREMT is NOT GOOD at disseminating information. It is TERRIBLE at reaching its constituents, which are the due paying medics who pay them for certifications. They get an F- on this. Yes, they will say that they sent out manuals to reps and so forth, but where was their public announcement on the lists about the changes that were coming about. Don't tell me, Bill Brown, that you don't monitor the Paramedic list and the EMS-L list and the Texas EMS-L list. Of course you do. So why not simply post a message that says exactly what you're doing? Is that asking too much? How does the information get out to the troops? By sending notices to NR reps? What about all the EMS educators out there? They are the ones who are responsible for teaching the skills. Where was the advisory to all of us? Are the NR reps supposed to disseminate this information? If so, who's going to pay for it? Given the power of the Internet and the availability for mass communications, it is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE that the NREMT has failed to promulgate its new skill testing criteria to all its constituents. It could easily have done that, but it chose not to. I don't expect you to send me a snail mail notice about this. I would be livid if you did. All you have to do is send me an email. Why not do it? It is time for NREMT to recognize who its " customers " are and begin to serve them, rather than its own interests. I do not expect that to ever happen, because it has never happened before. When one looks at the Board of NREMT, and sees the names of famous and respected physicians and EMTS on it, one wonders just how much time they actually spend on NREMT matters. I suspect that the answer is little. How nice it would be if ONE of the mighty on the NREMT board would, for once, speak up about one of these issues. As I said in the beginning, my opinions are my own. Gene Gandy, JD, LP, NREMT-P (maybe until they read this). Tucson, AZ. new NR skills sheets > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > about are - > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > Cardiac Arrest with AED > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > time. > > Jane Dinsmore > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Some historical perspective from an EMS Dinosaur. My opinions are my own, and do not reflect those of any of my affiliates or anybody else. There are pros and cons about NREMT. These are my thoughts, and mine only. The idea behind NREMT was great. It was designed to be a national clearing house for EMTs at all levels and provide the basis for reciprocity at all levels. Sadly, it has failed. And it will always fail given the lack of any unified understanding of what EMS standards ought to be. NREMT says its testing reflects tasks performed by EMTs, but its analysis is fatally flawed. It is fatally flawed because its premise is fatally flawed, and does not take into consideration the learning that is necessary for an EMT to gain the knowledge and experience to perform well in the field. NREMT tests lots of things that are largely irrelevant, and ignores things that are of major relevance, such as identification of STEMI and its variances. It gets a failing grade on this. When I started in EMS, in 1973, Texas did not require NREMT, nor did it for many years after. In those years, pre-1990-something when we switched to NR, we had an excellent testing program and excellent exams, all of which were, in my not so humble opinion, because I helped write them along with a number of others, better than the current NREMT exams. Our skills exams were superior to NREMT and would still be so today if they were in use, and our written exams were also. I worked on an ad hoc committee for years developing the skill testing criteria and the exam questions. The committee members were highly representative of EMS in Texas, and included people from all parts of the EMS system. But the state ran out of money for maintaining a testing program, and, in a series of events that should be viewed with the shame they deserve, the state of Texas went with NREMT without a valid RFP process, and, to this day, if my understanding is correct, without a contract, in direct violation of state contracting law. The state took the path of least resistance, and, overnight, and without the support of the majority of providers, suddenly became a NREMT state. There was much under-the-table and behind-the-scenes lobbying and jockeying that went on at that time, of which nobody ought to be proud. Many of the people involved are now dead and cannot speak. I was not privy to the insider negotiations that went on, but I know basically how they happened. Panic set in over the budget, and decisions were made that were, perhaps, not the best. There are other exam providers, and other states have engaged them rather than NREMT. NREMT has always promoted itself as being a force for standardization in EMS requirements, which would lead to reciprocity among all states for all NREMT-certifed folks. This is far from the truth. I have served on an exam writing committee and written exam questions for NREMT. The guidelines given us were, seemingly good, but in retrospect, did not result in questions that were always relevant to practice, regardless of the intentions. It is hard to write exam questions that are not flawed, and multiple choice questions are the least effective in determining competency. I only mention to you in passing what this meant to NREMT in terms of money. While NREMT is, as Kenny correctly says, a non-profit corporation, as Jane correctly says, all that means is that you can't show a profit consistently and must spend your money on salaries, expenses, and so forth. Gaining 50,000+ folks to charge for certifications was an enormous asset to NREMT. At one time, before Texas became a NREMT state, it was virtually impossible for a Texas EMT or Paramedic to pass a NREMT skill exam. There were no NR reps in Texas, so one had to go to Louisiana or Oklahoma to take the exams, and nobody ever passed the first time. It was, to put it bluntly, a scam. Keep 'em coming back and charge them the fees for retest. To be perfectly fair, I can't say that there was a connection between the practices of the local examiners in those states and NREMT. I suspect that there was not, but nevertheless, NREMT closed its eyes to it. The folks at the top of NREMT will deny that this ever existed, and so be it. They are very busy and probably don't have time to devote to these mundane matters. Once Texas became a NREMT state, things miraculously changed. Go figure. Now, to address the current kerfuffle. I attended a NREMT " roll-out " sometime late last year here in Tucson, at which the NREMT reps laid out the changes that were going to be made. Most of us in attendance thought they were good changes and supported them. They told us that changes were coming, and we knew that. But we didn't expect to see the changes show up without publicity that they had been put into effect. NREMT is NOT GOOD at disseminating information. It is TERRIBLE at reaching its constituents, which are the due paying medics who pay them for certifications. They get an F- on this. Yes, they will say that they sent out manuals to reps and so forth, but where was their public announcement on the lists about the changes that were coming about. Don't tell me, Bill Brown, that you don't monitor the Paramedic list and the EMS-L list and the Texas EMS-L list. Of course you do. So why not simply post a message that says exactly what you're doing? Is that asking too much? How does the information get out to the troops? By sending notices to NR reps? What about all the EMS educators out there? They are the ones who are responsible for teaching the skills. Where was the advisory to all of us? Are the NR reps supposed to disseminate this information? If so, who's going to pay for it? Given the power of the Internet and the availability for mass communications, it is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE that the NREMT has failed to promulgate its new skill testing criteria to all its constituents. It could easily have done that, but it chose not to. I don't expect you to send me a snail mail notice about this. I would be livid if you did. All you have to do is send me an email. Why not do it? It is time for NREMT to recognize who its " customers " are and begin to serve them, rather than its own interests. I do not expect that to ever happen, because it has never happened before. When one looks at the Board of NREMT, and sees the names of famous and respected physicians and EMTS on it, one wonders just how much time they actually spend on NREMT matters. I suspect that the answer is little. How nice it would be if ONE of the mighty on the NREMT board would, for once, speak up about one of these issues. As I said in the beginning, my opinions are my own. Gene Gandy, JD, LP, NREMT-P (maybe until they read this). Tucson, AZ. new NR skills sheets > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > about are - > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > Cardiac Arrest with AED > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > time. > > Jane Dinsmore > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well, a " non-profit " organization can use its income to do almost anything it wants. Now, at some point, it may be audited by IRS and asked to justify salaries and so forth. So, for example, if the non-profit is paying its CEO a salary of $21,000,000 per year, the IRS will ask what he is doing to earn that $21M per year, and if it can't they will find a problem. I have no idea what the NREMT's finances are, but they are available since they are a non-profit. I neither have the time nor the interest to look it up. I view NREMT in the same focus as, for example, the Institute for the Support of the Two-Headed Dutch Orphans of Brazil. NREMT is a money-generating entity, and it matters little that they're technically " non-profit. " GG Re: new NR skills sheets >>> It doesn't mean they don't or can't make money out the nose the rest of the time, and it doesn't meant that they can't have a huge operating revenue and keep growing to more beauracracy and make and spend more money. <<< I know. I wasn't making a political comment on the benefits of unfettered capitalism. No " true American " would ever begrudge an organization the ability to make as much money as it possibly can. I was merely correcting the misconception that the NREMT is a for-profit organization. It is not. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well, a " non-profit " organization can use its income to do almost anything it wants. Now, at some point, it may be audited by IRS and asked to justify salaries and so forth. So, for example, if the non-profit is paying its CEO a salary of $21,000,000 per year, the IRS will ask what he is doing to earn that $21M per year, and if it can't they will find a problem. I have no idea what the NREMT's finances are, but they are available since they are a non-profit. I neither have the time nor the interest to look it up. I view NREMT in the same focus as, for example, the Institute for the Support of the Two-Headed Dutch Orphans of Brazil. NREMT is a money-generating entity, and it matters little that they're technically " non-profit. " GG Re: new NR skills sheets >>> It doesn't mean they don't or can't make money out the nose the rest of the time, and it doesn't meant that they can't have a huge operating revenue and keep growing to more beauracracy and make and spend more money. <<< I know. I wasn't making a political comment on the benefits of unfettered capitalism. No " true American " would ever begrudge an organization the ability to make as much money as it possibly can. I was merely correcting the misconception that the NREMT is a for-profit organization. It is not. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Kenny, That's fine, but how does that get out to the thousands of NREMT constituents (certificate holders) and educators who were not in the loop? Are the NR reps required to disseminate this to everybody? It's one thing to say that NREMT has always been " accountable " and quite another to say that it has been forthcoming with changes to its skill sheets in a manner that is accessible to others than NR reps. What did NREMT do to get this information out at the gut level of EMTs? Nothing, I say. Gene Re: new NR skills sheets >>> The Reps were informed, I received my new manual a couple of weeks ago. ... I have never found NREMT to be unaccountable. They have always been very responsive to my questions. <<< (and and others), How are we ever going to raise a decent mob if you keep posting facts? Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Kenny, That's fine, but how does that get out to the thousands of NREMT constituents (certificate holders) and educators who were not in the loop? Are the NR reps required to disseminate this to everybody? It's one thing to say that NREMT has always been " accountable " and quite another to say that it has been forthcoming with changes to its skill sheets in a manner that is accessible to others than NR reps. What did NREMT do to get this information out at the gut level of EMTs? Nothing, I say. Gene Re: new NR skills sheets >>> The Reps were informed, I received my new manual a couple of weeks ago. ... I have never found NREMT to be unaccountable. They have always been very responsive to my questions. <<< (and and others), How are we ever going to raise a decent mob if you keep posting facts? Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 First off Gene...LOL I want to thank you for making me feel old! I am technically still a youngster when it comes to EMS but old enough to be one of those paramedics who took the Texas state exam. And as far as your opinions about National Registry, well I will second them! > > > > I had no idea---- > > > > > > > > new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 First off Gene...LOL I want to thank you for making me feel old! I am technically still a youngster when it comes to EMS but old enough to be one of those paramedics who took the Texas state exam. And as far as your opinions about National Registry, well I will second them! > > > > I had no idea---- > > > > > > > > new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well, glad to hear from you. There are still a few of us Dinos around. LOL I don't expect everybody to agree with me on the NREMT. It has it's pros and cons. I think it has failed to do the basic things that a great organization would have done to make itself relevant and customer friendly. I do NOT think it's customer friendly, but that's just my take. GG new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well, glad to hear from you. There are still a few of us Dinos around. LOL I don't expect everybody to agree with me on the NREMT. It has it's pros and cons. I think it has failed to do the basic things that a great organization would have done to make itself relevant and customer friendly. I do NOT think it's customer friendly, but that's just my take. GG new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> At one time, before Texas became a NREMT state, it was virtually impossible for a Texas EMT or Paramedic to pass a NREMT skill exam. <<< That was not my experience with the paramedic level NR exam in the 1980s. I saw many medics pass both the written and the skills exam on the first attempt. They were usually well prepared. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> That's fine, but how does that get out to the thousands of NREMT constituents (certificate holders) and educators who were not in the loop? Are the NR reps required to disseminate this to everybody? <<< Probably not any more required than the AHA is required to meet with EMS instructors and students ... or the Traumatic Brain Foundation ... or the PHTLS folks (NAEMT) ... or ... Perhaps the responsibility for preparing students for the testing phases lies with their instructors. Maybe instructors should be more proactive about updating their program before each class starts. At a minimum, the instuctor could have the student download the skill sheets directly from the NREMT website before the skills lab. In my opinion, the fact that individual instructors are unaware of changes in content and testing standards says more about the instructor than about the NREMT. When commented about NREMT accountability, I interpreted his remarks as an admission that, if he had a question about testing standards or procedures, he would just pick up the phone and call them. I admire instructors who work to keep themselves (and their students) current. Perhaps the NREMT could save themselves from a barraige of phone calls by communicating more clearly. But, we could make the same argument about any organization, instructor, or individual. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> NREMT is a money-generating entity, and it matters little that they're technically " non-profit. " <<< Except in the matter of accuracy. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> NREMT is a money-generating entity, and it matters little that they're technically " non-profit. " <<< Except in the matter of accuracy. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> NREMT is a money-generating entity, and it matters little that they're technically " non-profit. " <<< Except in the matter of accuracy. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Kenny, You must admit that ALL of the agencies that you listed do a considerably better job at communicating changes than NREMT.  For PHTLS & AMLS Instructor updates NAEMT had an internationally attended rollout in Dallas, AHA had an online renewal for Instructors for the 2010 updates (BCLS, ACLS, PALS), BTF sends a periodic e-newsletter with information...  NREMT should examine their customer service techniques and make improvements. , FF/LP/NREMTP " Live your life. Respect its brevity. " FBFD1426@... Subject: Re: new NR skills sheets To: texasems-l Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 1:30 PM  >>> That's fine, but how does that get out to the thousands of NREMT constituents (certificate holders) and educators who were not in the loop? Are the NR reps required to disseminate this to everybody? <<< Probably not any more required than the AHA is required to meet with EMS instructors and students ... or the Traumatic Brain Foundation ... or the PHTLS folks (NAEMT) ... or ... Perhaps the responsibility for preparing students for the testing phases lies with their instructors. Maybe instructors should be more proactive about updating their program before each class starts. At a minimum, the instuctor could have the student download the skill sheets directly from the NREMT website before the skills lab. In my opinion, the fact that individual instructors are unaware of changes in content and testing standards says more about the instructor than about the NREMT. When commented about NREMT accountability, I interpreted his remarks as an admission that, if he had a question about testing standards or procedures, he would just pick up the phone and call them. I admire instructors who work to keep themselves (and their students) current. Perhaps the NREMT could save themselves from a barraige of phone calls by communicating more clearly. But, we could make the same argument about any organization, instructor, or individual. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> You must admit that ALL of the agencies that you listed do a considerably better job at communicating changes than NREMT. <<< Some agencies (instructors, people)are much better than others at communicating. That, I do admit. As I mentioned, all agencies (instructors, people) could be more effective at communication. I, and apparantly many others on this list) have never had problems communicating with the NR. My premise is that NR is NOT responsible for communicating testing (or content) expectations to my students ... I am. I own the responsibility to make sure that I am current in curriculum and testing standards. If I want to know about the most up-to-date psychomotor testing standards, I can go to the NREMT website and download the skill sheets. If my students are unprepared for the exam, the failure belongs to me, not to the NR. BTW, if I am unprepared, I also consider that my failure. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 While I both commend you and respect your position on this topic, it still does not change the fact that the student (the individual that pays their money for the right to test) is the consumer. They, and they alone, are the ones that should be notified of any changes, conflicts, or addendum's. The consumer is the one that stands to take a loss, not NREMT or the instructors. Especially if these changes happen within the time frame of a course. So are instructors expected to check the NR website daily for any potential changes? Perhaps before, during, and after each class session just to be sure. How ridiculous would to be? Sent from my iPhone McGee, EMT-P On Jul 1, 2011, at 10:47 AM, " knavarro141 " kenneth.navarro@...> wrote: > > > > >>> You must admit that ALL of the agencies that you listed do a considerably better job at communicating changes than NREMT. <<< > > Some agencies (instructors, people)are much better than others at communicating. That, I do admit. As I mentioned, all agencies (instructors, people) could be more effective at communication. I, and apparantly many others on this list) have never had problems communicating with the NR. > > My premise is that NR is NOT responsible for communicating testing (or content) expectations to my students ... I am. I own the responsibility to make sure that I am current in curriculum and testing standards. If I want to know about the most up-to-date psychomotor testing standards, I can go to the NREMT website and download the skill sheets. If my students are unprepared for the exam, the failure belongs to me, not to the NR. > > BTW, if I am unprepared, I also consider that my failure. > > Kenny Navarro > Dallas > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Well said, . Pat Elmes > > > > I had no idea---- > > > > > > > > new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Perhaps National should wait until all students, across the country, are in a lull or between classes, all at the same time, so that they don't need to use thier critical thinking skills to adapt to changes to appropriate standards. Pat Elmes > > > > I had no idea---- > > > > > > > > new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > about are - > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > time. > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 >>> While I both commend you and respect your position on this topic, it still does not change the fact that the student (the individual that pays their money for the right to test) is the consumer. <<< I disagree. Students are not the NR customer ... candidates eligible for national certification are. A student only becomes an eligible candidate when he or she completes the training program. The instructor (or course director) of that program should be testing more skills than what the national registry tests. To supplement the national test, the course director must develop skill sheets to define the procedures. That skill sheet developer must use current standards. Before starting each course, the competent course director should review the testing material to make sure it is still current. That includes locally developed material as well as national standard testing material. >>> They, and they alone, are the ones that should be notified of any changes, conflicts, or addendum's. <<< Well of course that isn't true. Students know the objectives through their instructors. Instructors know the objectives through the course director. The course director should work with the program's medical director to establish the standards for that training. It is not the responsibility of the groups who establish the standards (NREMT, AHA, ITLS, NAEMT, Traumatic Brain Foundation, CDC, various working groups for various diseases and injuries) to insure that the course director is current. The course director has that responsibility. If he or she does not have the initiative to be responsible, he or she should retire. Kenny Navarro Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 Considering the rate of decline in potential EMS students, especially after this new Dennis Leary series, it shouldn't be too long from now. Sent from my iPhone McGee, EMT-P > Perhaps National should wait until all students, across the country, are in a lull or between classes, all at the same time, so that they don't need to use thier critical thinking skills to adapt to changes to appropriate standards. > > Pat Elmes > > > > > > > > I had no idea---- > > > > > > > > > > > > new NR skills sheets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may have missed the post on here because I was gone to Europe for 3 > > > weeks but I asked around and other instructors and coordinators I spoke > > > with who I KNOW are on this list said they never saw anything posted > > > about this so here I go. I came back from Europe to see if NR had > > > posted the new skills sheet for Pediatric Respiratory Compromise for > > > all skills levels on their website yet and then opened a couple of > > > other skills sheets randomly that I needed to send to an instructor and > > > noticed that they were ALSO edited. So then I opened EVERY skills sheet > > > on the NR website under Practice Exam Information. Were you guys aware > > > that almost every skills sheet for BLS and Advanced has been edited in > > > some shape, form or fashion? To see which ones are edited to review, > > > open each one individually and look at the date in the lower right hand > > > column. All new sheets were edited either 05-11 or 06-11 - don't know > > > when they were posted. I am a Rep and STILL didn't know they were > > > posting almost ALL new/edited skills sheets, and I attended the webinar > > > for Reps in April - maybe I just missed that part??? I mean, I knew > > > they told us they were making lots of changes over the next few years, > > > and they told us they were adding new skills sheets but not that they > > > were editing everything now. New skills sheets for sure they told us > > > about are - > > > > > > Pediatric Respiratory Compromise > > > Cardiac Arrest with AED > > > Spinal Immobilization Supine (mandatory) > > > Two new in the Random Basic Skill as possibilities - Long Bone > > > Immobilization and Joint Immobilization > > > > > > I received my new NR Rep book but haven't opened it yet because I just > > > got back in the country but the fact that I was surprised when I went > > > to the website yet again means that I feel like many of you will be > > > surprised. But maybe I am wrong, and you guys knew all this because it > > > was all posted while I was gone and if so, I apologize for wasting your > > > time. > > > > > > Jane Dinsmore > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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