Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

[Guest guest]

See that's where I understand this maritime stuff gets trickery.

As Gene Gandy said maritime law is complex and frankly he is my opinion

being nice. It is VERY ^%&(*(O$#*I complex.

I have a friend who is a Cruise Ship Nurse, his answer to my posting this

to him about the laws in play while he was docked here or in a foreign

country and at sea and such was it was ^*^(Y^)$#$%^&*()_ complicated.

A FEMA deployment is a whole nother animal as we say in Texas.

The GOM Oil Spill is NOT a Stafford Act incident as it falls under OPA 90

and that too is as clear as mud but FEMA isn't running this spill response

and has no legal standing in it as far as the ICS process. FEMA likely has

some roles in SUPPORT of the National IC (ADM. ) but I've been told it

is minimal and not in Command and Control aspects and this is not an issue

of semantics.

I would ASSUME (DANGER DANGER DANGER) that if you're on a dock on a barge

working say some temporary clinic type operation that it would be a state

thing as you're certainly not in International Waters at that point but as

they say I am not a lawyer (well maybe a Fire House Lawyer) nor do I play

one on TV as I have a face for radio!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

v.defrance@... writes:

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on a

barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) >

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

See that's where I understand this maritime stuff gets trickery.

As Gene Gandy said maritime law is complex and frankly he is my opinion

being nice. It is VERY ^%&(*(O$#*I complex.

I have a friend who is a Cruise Ship Nurse, his answer to my posting this

to him about the laws in play while he was docked here or in a foreign

country and at sea and such was it was ^*^(Y^)$#$%^&*()_ complicated.

A FEMA deployment is a whole nother animal as we say in Texas.

The GOM Oil Spill is NOT a Stafford Act incident as it falls under OPA 90

and that too is as clear as mud but FEMA isn't running this spill response

and has no legal standing in it as far as the ICS process. FEMA likely has

some roles in SUPPORT of the National IC (ADM. ) but I've been told it

is minimal and not in Command and Control aspects and this is not an issue

of semantics.

I would ASSUME (DANGER DANGER DANGER) that if you're on a dock on a barge

working say some temporary clinic type operation that it would be a state

thing as you're certainly not in International Waters at that point but as

they say I am not a lawyer (well maybe a Fire House Lawyer) nor do I play

one on TV as I have a face for radio!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

v.defrance@... writes:

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on a

barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) >

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

See that's where I understand this maritime stuff gets trickery.

As Gene Gandy said maritime law is complex and frankly he is my opinion

being nice. It is VERY ^%&(*(O$#*I complex.

I have a friend who is a Cruise Ship Nurse, his answer to my posting this

to him about the laws in play while he was docked here or in a foreign

country and at sea and such was it was ^*^(Y^)$#$%^&*()_ complicated.

A FEMA deployment is a whole nother animal as we say in Texas.

The GOM Oil Spill is NOT a Stafford Act incident as it falls under OPA 90

and that too is as clear as mud but FEMA isn't running this spill response

and has no legal standing in it as far as the ICS process. FEMA likely has

some roles in SUPPORT of the National IC (ADM. ) but I've been told it

is minimal and not in Command and Control aspects and this is not an issue

of semantics.

I would ASSUME (DANGER DANGER DANGER) that if you're on a dock on a barge

working say some temporary clinic type operation that it would be a state

thing as you're certainly not in International Waters at that point but as

they say I am not a lawyer (well maybe a Fire House Lawyer) nor do I play

one on TV as I have a face for radio!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:41:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

v.defrance@... writes:

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on a

barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) >

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something I

don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. " This is

a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing them,

which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying out

here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer the

offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time, 

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't  understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting  topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA  deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "  

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are 

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument 

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly  declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of 

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems  since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N.  Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance  Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection  Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

>

begin_of_the_skype_highlighting                    end_of_the_skype_\

highlighting (Cell  Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss  ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor  Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something I

don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. " This is

a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing them,

which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying out

here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer the

offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time, 

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't  understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting  topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA  deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "  

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are 

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument 

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly  declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of 

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems  since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N.  Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance  Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection  Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

>

begin_of_the_skype_highlighting                    end_of_the_skype_\

highlighting (Cell  Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss  ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor  Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something I

don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. " This is

a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing them,

which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying out

here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer the

offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time, 

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't  understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting  topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA  deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "  

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are 

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument 

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly  declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of 

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems  since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N.  Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance  Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection  Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

>

begin_of_the_skype_highlighting                    end_of_the_skype_\

highlighting (Cell  Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss  ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor  Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brad the Stafford Act itself doesn't bridge this or for that matter any

other particular gap. It sets up how disasters are dealt with up to the

Federal level in terms of declarations and who pays for what and the

complicated

nature of those issues as well as longer term issues like recovery and

rebuilding as we are seeing in the areas ravaged (or not seeing) by Katrina,

Ike, Rita and so on.

FEMA sets ups systems and rules for dealing with the day to day stuff just

like DSHS does to deal with day to day EMS issues.

I am sending you the PDF of the Stafford Act but it is 125 pages and won't

answer any specifics as it really is not designed to do so.

What has bridged these gaps is the EMAC system or Emergency Management

Assistance Compact (_http://www.emacweb.org/_ (http://www.emacweb.org/) ) which

is why you always hear things like don't self deploy to a disaster area

such. If you self deploy to a disaster and send FEMA a bill or claim and no

one in the world of emergency management has heard of you good luck on

getting any monies.

The beauty of EMAC is that this is where FEMA and the States are able to as

was said earlier " change the rules " in a disaster. States agree to relax

their regulations as needed and such.

Texas did it when we had all the evacuees in Austin and such and we needed

healthcare folks just like Louisiana is right now but the point you make

about the international waters and such is valid.

The stuff done under EMAC is a hell of a lot cleaner and clearer.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:26:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

bradsattler@... writes:

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brad the Stafford Act itself doesn't bridge this or for that matter any

other particular gap. It sets up how disasters are dealt with up to the

Federal level in terms of declarations and who pays for what and the

complicated

nature of those issues as well as longer term issues like recovery and

rebuilding as we are seeing in the areas ravaged (or not seeing) by Katrina,

Ike, Rita and so on.

FEMA sets ups systems and rules for dealing with the day to day stuff just

like DSHS does to deal with day to day EMS issues.

I am sending you the PDF of the Stafford Act but it is 125 pages and won't

answer any specifics as it really is not designed to do so.

What has bridged these gaps is the EMAC system or Emergency Management

Assistance Compact (_http://www.emacweb.org/_ (http://www.emacweb.org/) ) which

is why you always hear things like don't self deploy to a disaster area

such. If you self deploy to a disaster and send FEMA a bill or claim and no

one in the world of emergency management has heard of you good luck on

getting any monies.

The beauty of EMAC is that this is where FEMA and the States are able to as

was said earlier " change the rules " in a disaster. States agree to relax

their regulations as needed and such.

Texas did it when we had all the evacuees in Austin and such and we needed

healthcare folks just like Louisiana is right now but the point you make

about the international waters and such is valid.

The stuff done under EMAC is a hell of a lot cleaner and clearer.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:26:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

bradsattler@... writes:

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Brad the Stafford Act itself doesn't bridge this or for that matter any

other particular gap. It sets up how disasters are dealt with up to the

Federal level in terms of declarations and who pays for what and the

complicated

nature of those issues as well as longer term issues like recovery and

rebuilding as we are seeing in the areas ravaged (or not seeing) by Katrina,

Ike, Rita and so on.

FEMA sets ups systems and rules for dealing with the day to day stuff just

like DSHS does to deal with day to day EMS issues.

I am sending you the PDF of the Stafford Act but it is 125 pages and won't

answer any specifics as it really is not designed to do so.

What has bridged these gaps is the EMAC system or Emergency Management

Assistance Compact (_http://www.emacweb.org/_ (http://www.emacweb.org/) ) which

is why you always hear things like don't self deploy to a disaster area

such. If you self deploy to a disaster and send FEMA a bill or claim and no

one in the world of emergency management has heard of you good luck on

getting any monies.

The beauty of EMAC is that this is where FEMA and the States are able to as

was said earlier " change the rules " in a disaster. States agree to relax

their regulations as needed and such.

Texas did it when we had all the evacuees in Austin and such and we needed

healthcare folks just like Louisiana is right now but the point you make

about the international waters and such is valid.

The stuff done under EMAC is a hell of a lot cleaner and clearer.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 4:26:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

bradsattler@... writes:

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something

I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. "

This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing

them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer

the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on a barge

permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal control?

DeFrance

________________________________

To: texasems-l

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand something I

don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other people know. " This is

a very intelligent/informed group but no answer has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel acting

outside their normal operations area and without a state agency overseeing them,

which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying out

here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't answer the

offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are way from

the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that. i asked and was

told.

jim davis

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lpowell@... writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: _lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...)

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) > e-Mail: _FD707@..._ (mailto:FD707@...)

_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> _texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lpowell@... writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: _lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...)

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) > e-Mail: _FD707@..._ (mailto:FD707@...)

_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> _texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

,

You would fall under Louisiana jurisdiction if you are within 3 miles of

the Louisiana coast, beyond 3 miles you are considered to be in federal

waters....

Hope this helps.

Les

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/> e-Mail: FD707@...

%20FD707@...>

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/>

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

http://www.fireworld.com/>

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians http://www.naemt.org/>

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of DeFrance

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 16:42

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on

a barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal

control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler bradsattler@...

>

To: texasems-l

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand

something I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other

people know. " This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer

has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel

acting outside their normal operations area and without a state agency

overseeing them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't

answer the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: lnmolino@... lnmolino@...

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

You would fall under Louisiana jurisdiction if you are within 3 miles of

the Louisiana coast, beyond 3 miles you are considered to be in federal

waters....

Hope this helps.

Les

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/> e-Mail: FD707@...

%20FD707@...>

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/>

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

http://www.fireworld.com/>

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians http://www.naemt.org/>

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of DeFrance

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 16:42

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on

a barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal

control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler bradsattler@...

>

To: texasems-l

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand

something I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other

people know. " This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer

has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel

acting outside their normal operations area and without a state agency

overseeing them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't

answer the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: lnmolino@... lnmolino@...

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/> e-Mail: FD707@...

%20FD707@...>

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/>

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

http://www.fireworld.com/>

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians http://www.naemt.org/>

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: lnmolino@... lnmolino@...

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/> e-Mail: FD707@...

%20FD707@...>

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

http://www.apfire.us/ http://www.apfire.us/>

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

http://www.fireworld.com/>

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians http://www.naemt.org/>

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: lnmolino@... lnmolino@...

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: texasems-l

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> bradsattler@...

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And I spoke to a long time USCG Officer whom I know well and he stated that

the USCG has no jurisdiction on issues related to EMS Scope of Practice on

a vessel inside US Territorial Waters but that there are training

requirements for certain USCG licenses as far as medical training is concerned.

Is the 12 mile a HARD number? I've heard all sorts of numbers as high as

250 miles out and such.

Gene was right this crap is confusing.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:14:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12

miles from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical

regulations later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:44 AM, _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

wrote:

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: __lpowell@..._ (mailto:_lpowell@...) _

(mailto:_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) )

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) <__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) > e-Mail:

__FD707@..._ (mailto:_FD707@...) _ (mailto:_FD707@..._

(mailto:FD707@...)

)

__%20FD707@..._ (mailto:_%20FD707@...) _

(mailto:_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) ) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) <__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<__http://www.fireworld.com/__'>http://www.fireworld.com/__ (http://www.fireworld.com/_)

(_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) ) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <__http://www.naemt.org/__'>http://www.naemt.org/__ (http://www.naemt.org/_)

(_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) ) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <__http://www.texasemsat.org/__'>http://www.texasemsat.org/__ (http://www.texasemsat.org/_)

(_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) ) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

[mailto:__texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l )

_ (mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: __lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...) _

(mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

__lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...)

_ (mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> __bradsattler@..._ (mailto:_bradsattler@...) _

(mailto:_bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) )

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> __LNMolino@..._ (mailto:_LNMolino@...) _

(mailto:_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) )

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> __texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured ) )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

And I spoke to a long time USCG Officer whom I know well and he stated that

the USCG has no jurisdiction on issues related to EMS Scope of Practice on

a vessel inside US Territorial Waters but that there are training

requirements for certain USCG licenses as far as medical training is concerned.

Is the 12 mile a HARD number? I've heard all sorts of numbers as high as

250 miles out and such.

Gene was right this crap is confusing.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:14:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12

miles from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical

regulations later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:44 AM, _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

wrote:

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: __lpowell@..._ (mailto:_lpowell@...) _

(mailto:_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) )

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) <__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) > e-Mail:

__FD707@..._ (mailto:_FD707@...) _ (mailto:_FD707@..._

(mailto:FD707@...)

)

__%20FD707@..._ (mailto:_%20FD707@...) _

(mailto:_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) ) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) <__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<__http://www.fireworld.com/__'>http://www.fireworld.com/__ (http://www.fireworld.com/_)

(_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) ) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <__http://www.naemt.org/__'>http://www.naemt.org/__ (http://www.naemt.org/_)

(_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) ) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <__http://www.texasemsat.org/__'>http://www.texasemsat.org/__ (http://www.texasemsat.org/_)

(_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) ) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

[mailto:__texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l )

_ (mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: __lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...) _

(mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

__lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...)

_ (mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> __bradsattler@..._ (mailto:_bradsattler@...) _

(mailto:_bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) )

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> __LNMolino@..._ (mailto:_LNMolino@...) _

(mailto:_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) )

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> __texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured ) )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12 miles

from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical regulations

later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lpowell@... writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: _lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...)

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) > e-Mail: _FD707@..._ (mailto:FD707@...)

_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12 miles

from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical regulations

later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lpowell@... writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: _lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...)

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) > e-Mail: _FD707@..._ (mailto:FD707@...)

_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) <_http://www.apfire.us/_

(http://www.apfire.us/) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been told that inside the 3-Mile limit you are consider to be in

" State waters " between 3-12 miles " Federal Waters " and after 12 miles

" International Waters " .

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 10:35:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

james_dav_bmcg@... writes:

what I was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are way

from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that. i asked

and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

By treaty the international waters begin at 12 miles but the US maintains

jurisdiction out to 200 miles for fisheries, etc. There are exceptions

that are modified by treaty such as the Florida Straits with Cuba and off of

the Coast of Alaska.

Kirk

EMT-B

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:37:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

And I spoke to a long time USCG Officer whom I know well and he stated

that

the USCG has no jurisdiction on issues related to EMS Scope of Practice on

a vessel inside US Territorial Waters but that there are training

requirements for certain USCG licenses as far as medical training is

concerned.

Is the 12 mile a HARD number? I've heard all sorts of numbers as high as

250 miles out and such.

Gene was right this crap is confusing.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:14:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy

with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12

miles from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical

regulations later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:44 AM, _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

wrote:

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: __lpowell@..._ (mailto:_lpowell@...) _

(mailto:_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) )

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) )

<__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) > e-Mail:

__FD707@..._ (mailto:_FD707@...) _ (mailto:_FD707@..._

(mailto:FD707@...)

)

__%20FD707@..._ (mailto:_%20FD707@...) _

(mailto:_%20FD707@..._ (mailto:%20FD707@...) ) >

Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__ (http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) )

<__http://www.apfire.us/__'>http://www.apfire.us/__

(http://www.apfire.us/_)

(_http://www.apfire.us/_ (http://www.apfire.us/) ) >

Industrial Fire World Advisory Board - Industrial Fire World

<__http://www.fireworld.com/__'>http://www.fireworld.com/__ (http://www.fireworld.com/_)

(_http://www.fireworld.com/_ (http://www.fireworld.com/) ) >

Secretary - Geismar Area Mutual Aid Association (GAMA) -

http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <__http://www.naemt.org/__'>http://www.naemt.org/__ (http://www.naemt.org/_)

(_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) ) >

Board of Directors - Emergency Medical Services Association of Texas

(EMSAT) <__http://www.texasemsat.org/__'>http://www.texasemsat.org/__ (http://www.texasemsat.org/_)

(_http://www.texasemsat.org/_ (http://www.texasemsat.org/) ) >

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

[mailto:__texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l )

_ (mailto:_texasems-l _

(mailto:texasems-l )

) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

--- On Mon, 6/28/10, DeFrance __v.defrance@..._

(mailto:_v.defrance@...) _

(mailto:_v.defrance@..._ (mailto:v.defrance@...) )

> wrote:

From: DeFrance __v.defrance@..._

(mailto:_v.defrance@...)

_ (mailto:_v.defrance@..._ (mailto:v.defrance@...) )

>

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 4:41 PM

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on

a barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal

control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler __bradsattler@..._

(mailto:_bradsattler@...) _ (mailto:_bradsattler@..._

(mailto:bradsattler@...) )

>

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand

something I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other

people know. " This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer

has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel

acting outside their normal operations area and without a state agency

overseeing them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't

answer the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: __lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...) _

(mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

__lnmolino@..._

(mailto:_lnmolino@...)

_ (mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> __bradsattler@..._ (mailto:_bradsattler@...) _

(mailto:_bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) )

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> __LNMolino@..._ (mailto:_LNMolino@...) _

(mailto:_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) )

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> __texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured ) )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

By treaty the international waters begin at 12 miles but the US maintains

jurisdiction out to 200 miles for fisheries, etc. There are exceptions

that are modified by treaty such as the Florida Straits with Cuba and off of

the Coast of Alaska.

Kirk

EMT-B

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:37:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

And I spoke to a long time USCG Officer whom I know well and he stated

that

the USCG has no jurisdiction on issues related to EMS Scope of Practice on

a vessel inside US Territorial Waters but that there are training

requirements for certain USCG licenses as far as medical training is

concerned.

Is the 12 mile a HARD number? I've heard all sorts of numbers as high as

250 miles out and such.

Gene was right this crap is confusing.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 11:14:14 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

summedic@... writes:

I just contacted my local Coast Guard office, of course they were busy

with

hurrican readiness, but I did find out that international waters start 12

miles from shore. I should have more infomation on international medical

regulations later, I hope.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

On Jun 29, 2010, at 8:44 AM, _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

wrote:

The Coast Guard has regulations that affect how medical care is given?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/29/2010 7:19:59 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) writes:

Jim,

Actually, weather at the dock or not Coast Guard still has authority

over the vessel. There are also are agreements among USCG, OSHA and MMS

which allow them to enforce and or report if a violation is noted. Also

OSHA's jurisdiction does extent beyond the shoreline....

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Coordinator

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: __lpowell@..._ (mailto:_lpowell@...) _

(mailto:_lpowell@..._ (mailto:lpowell@...) )

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

Captain / Training Officer - 7th District Fire Department -

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Captain / Training Officer - Geismar Fire Department -

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http:www.gamaid.org

Affiliate Advisory Council - Texas: National Association of Emergency

Medical Technicians <__http://www.naemt.org/__'>http://www.naemt.org/__ (http://www.naemt.org/_)

(_http://www.naemt.org/_ (http://www.naemt.org/) ) >

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" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

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________________________________

From: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

[mailto:__texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l )

_ (mailto:_texasems-l _

(mailto:texasems-l )

) ] On

Behalf Of james davis

Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 22:36

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

what i was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are

way from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that.

i asked and was told.

jim davis

--- On Mon, 6/28/10, DeFrance __v.defrance@..._

(mailto:_v.defrance@...) _

(mailto:_v.defrance@..._ (mailto:v.defrance@...) )

> wrote:

From: DeFrance __v.defrance@..._

(mailto:_v.defrance@...)

_ (mailto:_v.defrance@..._ (mailto:v.defrance@...) )

>

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 4:41 PM

What Les posted helped, but at what point is it off-shore? Is working on

a barge permanently tied up to the dock off-shore and under federal

control?

DeFrance

________________________________

From: Brad Sattler __bradsattler@..._

(mailto:_bradsattler@...) _ (mailto:_bradsattler@..._

(mailto:bradsattler@...) )

>

To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 9:58:58 AM

Subject: Re: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

Louis,

Sorry my questions sound alarmist. I'm just trying to understand

something I don't understand. The answer I've heard is " I'm sure other

people know. " This is a very intelligent/informed group but no answer

has surfaced.

I wasn't aware that Stafford covers that bridge. Both are personnel

acting outside their normal operations area and without a state agency

overseeing them, which is why I made the connection.

I can't access the actual Stafford Act where I am (downloads keep dying

out here), but I think I should give it a good read. Shame it doesn't

answer the offshore worker question though. :-/

-Brad

> From: __lnmolino@..._ (mailto:_lnmolino@...) _

(mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

__lnmolino@..._

(mailto:_lnmolino@...)

_ (mailto:_lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) )

>

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: __texasems-l _ (mailto:_texasems-l ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> __bradsattler@..._ (mailto:_bradsattler@...) _

(mailto:_bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...) )

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> __LNMolino@..._ (mailto:_LNMolino@...) _

(mailto:_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...) )

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> __texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured ) _

(mailto:_texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured ) )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

***** Named to Fortune's 1000 list for 2009****

***** Ranked in Industry Week's " 1000 Largest Manufacturing Companies in

the World " 2009 list. *****

*

[Guest guest]

Texas state waters run to 3 leagues. All other states is 3 miles.

In a message dated 6/29/2010 16:40:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

I have been told that inside the 3-Mile limit you are consider to be in

" State waters " between 3-12 miles " Federal Waters " and after 12 miles

" International Waters " .

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/28/2010 10:35:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

james_dav_bmcg@... writes:

what I was told @ being tied up is osha is in charge and when you are way

from the dock it's the coast guard. i don't know the source of that. i

asked

and was told.

jim davis

> From: _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) _lnmolino@..._

(mailto:lnmolino@...) >

> Subject: Say what? (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

> To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

> Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 11:55 AM

>

>

> In a message dated 6/28/2010 11:29:25 A.M. Central Daylight

> Time,

> _bradsattler@..._ (mailto:bradsattler@...)

> writes:

>

> I don't understand how I'm " sounding a lawsuit

> alarm. " This is actually an

> interesting topic for me, because I can see the same

> issue coming up with

> FEMA deployments.

>

> Well I can see how someone might see your posts as " lawsuit

> alarmist "

> however that's another thread totally so I'll skip it.

>

> Just how do you see these issues from offshore where I

> admit the laws are

> as clear as mud to a FEMA deployment in the US and for the

> sake of argument

> assuming that they are properly requested through the EMAC

> systems in

> properly declared Stafford Act disaster?

>

> The compacts and federal law have dealt with these issues

> of scope of

> practice for well as long as I have been doing emergency

> management (mid 1980's)

> and in many cases they have very much improved upon those

> systems since

> Katrina and the other major storms of late?

>

> Apples and guavas isn't even close in this case.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire

> Protection Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting

end_of_the_skype_highlighting (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss

> events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat &

> reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

> _texasems-l-fullfeatured _

(mailto:texasems-l-fullfeatured )

>

>

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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