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Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

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Posted
Posted

Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

recall him attacking anyone.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

>

> Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

> individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

> point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

>

> I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

> for trying to point things out is also wrong.

>

> We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

> and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

> here and elsewhere.

>

> One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

> points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

> points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

> the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

> On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

> > wrote:

>

> > Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

> community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

> trying to help others is just flat wrong.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

recall him attacking anyone.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

>

> Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

> individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

> point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

>

> I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

> for trying to point things out is also wrong.

>

> We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

> and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

> here and elsewhere.

>

> One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

> points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

> points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

> the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

> On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

> > wrote:

>

> > Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

> community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

> trying to help others is just flat wrong.

>

>

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Posted
Posted

The problem with this particular discussion is that the " newbies " were critical

of Gene for not being on scene, not knowing the area, not praising the on-scene

care provided and insisted that they knew the patients only lived because they

were transported by helicopter. Agreed Gene may not have been on-scene but I am

guessing neither were any of the newbies (based on the fact that nobody said " I

was there and this is how it went " ), Gene is very familiar with the area and

local EMS system and he never criticized the care provided by the medics, merely

the automatic dispatch of air EMS in an urban area, yet for the most part the

" newbies " failed to listen to those of us trying to point out Gene's knowledge

base, intent of his post and the fact that there is not any credible evidence

that any of these patients would have died if transported by ground.

Even though he is an " old dog " I would bet Gene is more familiar with current

data and evidence than a lot of us. The " newbies " did what everyone of us has

done in the past and will probably do again in the future and let emotion

overrule logic and experience as it applied to this conversation.

Rick

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of Louis N. Molino, Sr.

Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:31 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in

the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or trying

to help others is just flat wrong. "

I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie for trying

to point things out is also wrong.

We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest and is fine

but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point here and elsewhere.

One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good points

because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the points she made were

very pertinent to the conversations at hand and the masses lost out on hearing

them and that's a loss.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs

stevenhobbs@...> wrote:

> Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or trying to help

others is just flat wrong.

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Posted
Posted

I, too, have been blessed by Gene's presence in the classroom as well as a

confidant and friend.

I almost crapped my pants back in 2008 when I learned Gene had relocated to

Tucson.

I then DID soil those same pants when I asked Gene if he would be interested

in teaching in the paramedic program I was coordinating - and he said 'Yes'!

One of the best decisions I've ever made in my life.

Stay safe,

Mike Grill, MS., NREMT-P

Manager of EMS Education and Training

Porter, Littleton and Adventist Hospital EMS Team

Littleton, CO.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Joanna Burgan

Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 6:49 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Absolutely agree with you jane. I always learn from gene's posts and to

belittle him on this post is unwarranted.

Joanna CCEMTP, arizona

Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint

On Jan 10, 2011 6:42 AM, Jane Dinsmore <texas.paramedic@...

> wrote:

Mr. Chennault, I didn't plan to chime in here on this subject. I have been

on both sides of this fence - flying patients out and being on a flight

crew. I understand the issues and even though I am an ex-flightmedic, I do

agree that sometimes EMS people fly patients unnecessarily at great expense

to the patient and at great risk. I also know that there are plenty of times

where flight IS indicated and needed. I don't think Mr. Gandy has ever

disagreed with that last statement because he has also had to call for a

helo many times when we worked in a very rural area and the time savings for

the patient for whatever reason was of benefit.

His statements have to do with overutilization and times when there is

unnecessary utilization of helicopter transport, and he originally popped

the question about whether or not this was the case in this instance. Mr.

Gandy is a excellent teacher as well as a gifted and talented Paramedic who

has been serving the public in this capacity (and in the legal capacity) for

most of his life. He loves to throw questions such as this out to the group

to promote discussion of the issues which, in turn, makes us all think. Some

argue one way, some argue another, but we all learn and develop thanks to

discussions such as this one. Whether or not you agree with Mr. Gandy has

never been the point with him; the discussion was the point. And for you to

make denigrating comments to or about him is extremely offensive and

non-productive. Trust me, Mr. Gandy has more experience, knowledge and

education in Paramedicine than most of the people who serve in Texas EMS

today, including me, a

nd I have been doing this actively for 26 years now. While I don't always

agree with Gene on every little point, I have learned more from him than

ANYONE in EMS, Texas or nationwide, and I (and many others) highly respect

him. Please do NOT belittle him because it only makes you look bad. :)

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l

From: Grayson902@...

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:02:23 -0600

Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Being childish doesn't help your argument, .

Not that it was a very good argument to begin with...

Chennault wrote:

>

>

> Gene your right I'm stupid your the smart one and are god never make a

> poor decision on a medical call. Sorry I will not speak any longer you

> don't think anyone but you is correct on any issue I have ever read

> that you write about. You are an old bird that will never change your

> ways.

>

> Chennault EMT-I/FF

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Jan 9, 2011, at 22:00, Wegandy <wegandy@...

> <mailto:wegandy%40aol.com>> wrote:

>

> > , don't condescend to me. I have worked MCIs, thank you

very

> much. I am talking about an issue that is of great concern here in AZ.

> The use of helos when not medically helpful is an ingrained, cultural

> thing. I am not critical of the medics. I am critical of the culture,

> and I am not alone.

> >

> > Whether or not Ms. Giffords is still alive has nothing whatever to

> do with how she was transported. I don't know whether she went by land

> or air. She is alive because of the trajectory of the bullet and the

> skill of her neurosurgeons. The manner of transport has nothing to do

> with it.

> >

> > The fact is that there were plenty of ground units available and

> there was no medical reason for helicopter transport, nor any

> practical reason. Unknown to you, there has been great and long debate

> here about overuse of air resources, and there is an ongoing

> discussion. This is not the first questionable incident.

> >

> > I am neither a helophile nor a helophobe. I have transported many

> patients in helicopters and called them on numerous occasions, but in

> appropriate circumstances. This was not one.

> >

> > I will debate you on the issues but not the facts. I know the

facts.

> You do not.

> >

> > GG

> >

> > Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> > >

> > > I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an

MCI.

> > >

> > > Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling

staffed and

> available

> > > HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single

shooting

> victim then

> > > I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind

ground

> ambulance

> > > ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very

likely had

> many

> > > people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> everyone there

> > > for witness statements, etc.

> > >

> > > Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best

way

> to control

> > > it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and

North

> Oracle, the

> > > scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center

where

> she was

> > > taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns

and two

> right

> > > turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I

obeyed

> all traffic

> > > laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights,

each

> timed to

> > > 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have

expected

> at 1100

> > > this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I

had been

> > > operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all

green

> lights,

> > > cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo

can

> be on scene

> > > and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not

only

> shocking for its

> > > stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes.

What

> can these

> > > people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control

system

> and which

> > > dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County,

be

> thinking?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GG

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

I certainly didn't think I was belittling a newbie at any time or in any way in

what I wrote........

Jane Dinsmore

> To: texasems-l

> From: Grayson902@...

> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:11:25 -0600

> Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

> recall him attacking anyone.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

> >

> > Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

> > individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

> > point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

> >

> > I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

> > for trying to point things out is also wrong.

> >

> > We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

> > and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

> > here and elsewhere.

> >

> > One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

> > points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

> > points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

> > the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

> >

> > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> > Please excuse any typos.

> > (Cell)

> > LNMolino@...

> >

> > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

> > > wrote:

> >

> > > Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

> > community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

> > trying to help others is just flat wrong.

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

I certainly didn't think I was belittling a newbie at any time or in any way in

what I wrote........

Jane Dinsmore

> To: texasems-l

> From: Grayson902@...

> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:11:25 -0600

> Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

> recall him attacking anyone.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

> >

> > Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

> > individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

> > point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

> >

> > I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

> > for trying to point things out is also wrong.

> >

> > We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

> > and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

> > here and elsewhere.

> >

> > One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

> > points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

> > points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

> > the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

> >

> > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> > Please excuse any typos.

> > (Cell)

> > LNMolino@...

> >

> > On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

> > > wrote:

> >

> > > Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

> > community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

> > trying to help others is just flat wrong.

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

No one did. I should have changed the SUB LINE.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

>

> I certainly didn't think I was belittling a newbie at any time or in any way

in what I wrote........

>

> Jane Dinsmore

>

>> To: texasems-l

>> From: Grayson902@...

>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:11:25 -0600

>> Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>

>> Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

>> recall him attacking anyone.

>>

>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

>>>

>>> Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

>>> individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

>>> point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

>>>

>>> I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

>>> for trying to point things out is also wrong.

>>>

>>> We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

>>> and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

>>> here and elsewhere.

>>>

>>> One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

>>> points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

>>> points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

>>> the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

>>>

>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

>>> Please excuse any typos.

>>> (Cell)

>>> LNMolino@...

>>>

>>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

>>> > wrote:

>>>

>>>> Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

>>> community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

>>> trying to help others is just flat wrong.

>>>

>>>

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Posted
Posted

No one did. I should have changed the SUB LINE.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

>

> I certainly didn't think I was belittling a newbie at any time or in any way

in what I wrote........

>

> Jane Dinsmore

>

>> To: texasems-l

>> From: Grayson902@...

>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:11:25 -0600

>> Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>

>> Who belittled an EMS newbie? Gene stated his opinions, but I don't

>> recall him attacking anyone.

>>

>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote:

>>>

>>> Hobbs said; " Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected

>>> individuals in the EMS community, and to belittle him for trying to

>>> point out things, or trying to help others is just flat wrong. "

>>>

>>> I agree gene is respected but ya know to belittle even an EMS newbie

>>> for trying to point things out is also wrong.

>>>

>>> We often joke about eating our young and mostly that's said in jest

>>> and is fine but at the sane time we often go overboard on that point

>>> here and elsewhere.

>>>

>>> One EMS newbie has recently E-Mailed me off list with some very good

>>> points because of this. I dint mind off list conversations but the

>>> points she made were very pertinent to the conversations at hand and

>>> the masses lost out on hearing them and that's a loss.

>>>

>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

>>> Please excuse any typos.

>>> (Cell)

>>> LNMolino@...

>>>

>>> On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:02, steven Hobbs stevenhobbs@...

>>> > wrote:

>>>

>>>> Mr. Gandy is one of the most highly respected individuals in the EMS

>>> community, and to belittle him for trying to point out things, or

>>> trying to help others is just flat wrong.

>>>

>>>

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Posted
Posted

I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll just

say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful Texas EMS is.

All Texans should be proud of the system that has developed over the last 35

years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I helped write many of the rules.

We did the right thing. We chose the maximum amount of freedom for our

providers and medical directors. We all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and

many others for that. There are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and

again for years, struggling with language for the rules, developing testing

standards, and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we

developed that were, IMHO, a model for the country.

Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further from

the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic things were

done by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and Tucson Fire/EMS. But

they work within a framework that, in many ways, makes little sense.

I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I will try

to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many people from other

states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an issue in Texas as well as

AZ and in many other places. Third, I still know lots of people on the list and

think they might be interested in the problems we have here, as contrasted by

the problems they have.

By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas folks

appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then

I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there

for witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control

it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was

taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic

laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to

60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100

this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green lights,

cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on scene

and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll just

say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful Texas EMS is.

All Texans should be proud of the system that has developed over the last 35

years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I helped write many of the rules.

We did the right thing. We chose the maximum amount of freedom for our

providers and medical directors. We all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and

many others for that. There are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and

again for years, struggling with language for the rules, developing testing

standards, and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we

developed that were, IMHO, a model for the country.

Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further from

the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic things were

done by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and Tucson Fire/EMS. But

they work within a framework that, in many ways, makes little sense.

I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I will try

to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many people from other

states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an issue in Texas as well as

AZ and in many other places. Third, I still know lots of people on the list and

think they might be interested in the problems we have here, as contrasted by

the problems they have.

By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas folks

appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then

I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there

for witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control

it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was

taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic

laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to

60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100

this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green lights,

cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on scene

and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

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Posted

,

I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and " old

geezer. " You'll get both!

Gene

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> > >

> > > I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> > >

> > > Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> available

> > > HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> victim then

> > > I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> ambulance

> > > ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> many

> > > people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> everyone there

> > > for witness statements, etc.

> > >

> > > Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> to control

> > > it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> Oracle, the

> > > scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> she was

> > > taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> right

> > > turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> all traffic

> > > laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> timed to

> > > 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> at 1100

> > > this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> > > operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> lights,

> > > cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> be on scene

> > > and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> shocking for its

> > > stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> can these

> > > people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> and which

> > > dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> thinking?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GG

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

> ,

>

>

> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and " old

geezer. " You'll get both!

>

>

> Gene

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>>>

>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

>>>>

>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

>> available

>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

>> victim then

>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

>> ambulance

>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

>> many

>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

>> everyone there

>>>> for witness statements, etc.

>>>>

>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

>> to control

>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

>> Oracle, the

>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

>> she was

>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

>> right

>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

>> all traffic

>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

>> timed to

>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

>> at 1100

>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

>> lights,

>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

>> be on scene

>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

>> shocking for its

>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

>> can these

>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

>> and which

>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

>> thinking?

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> GG

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

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Posted
Posted

Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

>

>

> > ,

> >

> >

> > I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

> >

> >

> > Gene

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> >>>>

> >>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> >>>>

> >>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> >> available

> >>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> >> victim then

> >>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> >> ambulance

> >>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> >> many

> >>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> >> everyone there

> >>>> for witness statements, etc.

> >>>>

> >>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> >> to control

> >>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> >> Oracle, the

> >>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> >> she was

> >>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> >> right

> >>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> >> all traffic

> >>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> >> timed to

> >>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> >> at 1100

> >>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> >>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> >> lights,

> >>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> >> be on scene

> >>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> >> shocking for its

> >>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> >> can these

> >>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> >> and which

> >>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> >> thinking?

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> GG

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

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Posted
Posted

240

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

> Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

>

> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> CPR Instructor

>

>

>

>

>

>> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

>>

>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

>> Please excuse any typos.

>> (Cell)

>> LNMolino@...

>>

>>

>>

>>> ,

>>>

>>>

>>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

>>>

>>>

>>> Gene

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

>>>> available

>>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

>>>> victim then

>>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

>>>> ambulance

>>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

>>>> many

>>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

>>>> everyone there

>>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

>>>> to control

>>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

>>>> Oracle, the

>>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

>>>> she was

>>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

>>>> right

>>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

>>>> all traffic

>>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

>>>> timed to

>>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

>>>> at 1100

>>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

>>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

>>>> lights,

>>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

>>>> be on scene

>>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

>>>> shocking for its

>>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

>>>> can these

>>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

>>>> and which

>>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

>>>> thinking?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> GG

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

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Posted
Posted

Hey, as I've told many a patient, " I'm not the po-lice. "

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> 240

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

>

>

> > Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

> >

> > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> > CPR Instructor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

> >>

> >> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >> Please excuse any typos.

> >> (Cell)

> >> LNMolino@...

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>> ,

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Gene

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> >>>> available

> >>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> >>>> victim then

> >>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> >>>> ambulance

> >>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> >>>> many

> >>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> >>>> everyone there

> >>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> >>>> to control

> >>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> >>>> Oracle, the

> >>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> >>>> she was

> >>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> >>>> right

> >>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> >>>> all traffic

> >>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> >>>> timed to

> >>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> >>>> at 1100

> >>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> >>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> >>>> lights,

> >>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> >>>> be on scene

> >>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> >>>> shocking for its

> >>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> >>>> can these

> >>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> >>>> and which

> >>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> >>>> thinking?

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> GG

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

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Posted
Posted

I suppose that I need to put in my reservations for those as well...

ck

In a message dated 01/10/11 23:26:17 Central Standard Time, wegandy@...

writes:

,

I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

Gene

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> > >

> > > I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> > >

> > > Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> available

> > > HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> victim then

> > > I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> ambulance

> > > ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> many

> > > people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> everyone there

> > > for witness statements, etc.

> > >

> > > Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> to control

> > > it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> Oracle, the

> > > scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> she was

> > > taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> right

> > > turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> all traffic

> > > laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> timed to

> > > 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> at 1100

> > > this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> > > operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> lights,

> > > cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> be on scene

> > > and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> shocking for its

> > > stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> can these

> > > people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> and which

> > > dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> thinking?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GG

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > =

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

--

Grayson

www.kellygrayson.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Posted
Posted

I suppose that I need to put in my reservations for those as well...

ck

In a message dated 01/10/11 23:26:17 Central Standard Time, wegandy@...

writes:

,

I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

Gene

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> > >

> > > I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> > >

> > > Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> available

> > > HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> victim then

> > > I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> ambulance

> > > ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> many

> > > people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> everyone there

> > > for witness statements, etc.

> > >

> > > Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> to control

> > > it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> Oracle, the

> > > scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> she was

> > > taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> right

> > > turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> all traffic

> > > laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> timed to

> > > 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> at 1100

> > > this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> > > operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> lights,

> > > cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> be on scene

> > > and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> shocking for its

> > > stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> can these

> > > people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> and which

> > > dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> thinking?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GG

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > =

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

--

Grayson

www.kellygrayson.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Posted
Posted

But have you been shot at or had a round hit your truck on a job?

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

> Hey, as I've told many a patient, " I'm not the po-lice. "

>

> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> CPR Instructor

>

>

>

>

>

>> 240

>>

>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

>> Please excuse any typos.

>> (Cell)

>> LNMolino@...

>>

>>

>>

>>> Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

>>>

>>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

>>> CPR Instructor

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

>>>>

>>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

>>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

>>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

>>>> Please excuse any typos.

>>>> (Cell)

>>>> LNMolino@...

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> ,

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Gene

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

>>>>>> available

>>>>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

>>>>>> victim then

>>>>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

>>>>>> ambulance

>>>>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

>>>>>> many

>>>>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

>>>>>> everyone there

>>>>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

>>>>>> to control

>>>>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

>>>>>> Oracle, the

>>>>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

>>>>>> she was

>>>>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

>>>>>> right

>>>>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

>>>>>> all traffic

>>>>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

>>>>>> timed to

>>>>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

>>>>>> at 1100

>>>>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

>>>>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

>>>>>> lights,

>>>>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

>>>>>> be on scene

>>>>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

>>>>>> shocking for its

>>>>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

>>>>>> can these

>>>>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

>>>>>> and which

>>>>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

>>>>>> thinking?

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> GG

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

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Posted
Posted

Thank you Gene for your honest and insightful thoughts on this and every topic

you choose to chime in on. You are respected by the majority of us on this list;

the rest will eventually come around, if not their loss.

Sent from my iPhone

McGee, EMT-P

> I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll just

say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful Texas EMS is.

All Texans should be proud of the system that has developed over the last 35

years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I helped write many of the rules. We

did the right thing. We chose the maximum amount of freedom for our providers

and medical directors. We all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and many

others for that. There are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and again

for years, struggling with language for the rules, developing testing standards,

and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we developed that

were, IMHO, a model for the country.

>

> Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further from

the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic things were done

by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and Tucson Fire/EMS. But they work

within a framework that, in many ways, makes little sense.

>

> I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I will

try to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many people from

other states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an issue in Texas as

well as AZ and in many other places. Third, I still know lots of people on the

list and think they might be interested in the problems we have here, as

contrasted by the problems they have.

>

> By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas folks

appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

>

> GG

>

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

>

> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then

> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there

> for witness statements, etc.

>

> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control

> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

>

> >

> > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was

> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic

> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to

> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100

> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green lights,

> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on scene

> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >

> >

> > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

> >

> >

> > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >

> >

> > GG

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Thank you Gene for your honest and insightful thoughts on this and every topic

you choose to chime in on. You are respected by the majority of us on this list;

the rest will eventually come around, if not their loss.

Sent from my iPhone

McGee, EMT-P

> I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll just

say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful Texas EMS is.

All Texans should be proud of the system that has developed over the last 35

years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I helped write many of the rules. We

did the right thing. We chose the maximum amount of freedom for our providers

and medical directors. We all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and many

others for that. There are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and again

for years, struggling with language for the rules, developing testing standards,

and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we developed that

were, IMHO, a model for the country.

>

> Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further from

the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic things were done

by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and Tucson Fire/EMS. But they work

within a framework that, in many ways, makes little sense.

>

> I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I will

try to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many people from

other states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an issue in Texas as

well as AZ and in many other places. Third, I still know lots of people on the

list and think they might be interested in the problems we have here, as

contrasted by the problems they have.

>

> By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas folks

appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

>

> GG

>

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

>

> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then

> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there

> for witness statements, etc.

>

> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control

> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

>

> >

> > Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was

> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic

> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to

> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100

> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green lights,

> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on scene

> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >

> >

> > The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

> >

> >

> > I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >

> >

> > GG

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Gene, I would have to agree with you... moving back to Louisiana after

living in Texas for twenty years, along with traveling to different

parts of the country. I would have to say Texas EMS has to be at the top

of the country. When I first moved to Texas, it took some adjusting,

however moving back to Louisiana was a culture shock! Not going to get

into details, but let's just say, the people of Texas should be proud of

the EMS System in the state!

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Chief

Chlor-Alkali Project Safety Represenative

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Wegandy

Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 22:07

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll

just say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful

Texas EMS is. All Texans should be proud of the system that has

developed over the last 35 years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I

helped write many of the rules. We did the right thing. We chose the

maximum amount of freedom for our providers and medical directors. We

all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and many others for that. There

are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and again for years,

struggling with language for the rules, developing testing standards,

and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we

developed that were, IMHO, a model for the country.

Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further

from the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic

things were done by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and

Tucson Fire/EMS. But they work within a framework that, in many ways,

makes little sense.

I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I

will try to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many

people from other states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an

issue in Texas as well as AZ and in many other places. Third, I still

know lots of people on the list and think they might be interested in

the problems we have here, as contrasted by the problems they have.

By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas

folks appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim

then

I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone

there

for witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to

control

it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she

was

taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all

traffic

laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed

to

60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at

1100

this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

lights,

cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on

scene

and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for

its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can

these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and

which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Gene, I would have to agree with you... moving back to Louisiana after

living in Texas for twenty years, along with traveling to different

parts of the country. I would have to say Texas EMS has to be at the top

of the country. When I first moved to Texas, it took some adjusting,

however moving back to Louisiana was a culture shock! Not going to get

into details, but let's just say, the people of Texas should be proud of

the EMS System in the state!

Les

NREMT-Paramedic, HM-M, CSST, SAPA, RSO, AHA-TCF

Senior Safety Coordinator / Emergency Response Chief

Chlor-Alkali Project Safety Represenative

Westlake Chemical

P.O. Box 228

36045 LA 30

Geismar, LA 70734-0228

e-Mail: lpowell@...

Telephone:

Fax:

Cell: 225.439-6552

http://www.texasemsat.org/>

" Next to creating a life, the finest thing a man can do is save one. " -

Abraham Lincoln

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Wegandy

Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 22:07

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I could go on and on about the deficiencies in our system here, but I'll

just say that living in AZ has made me appreciate just how wonderful

Texas EMS is. All Texans should be proud of the system that has

developed over the last 35 years. I was in on it in the beginning, and I

helped write many of the rules. We did the right thing. We chose the

maximum amount of freedom for our providers and medical directors. We

all owe Gene Weatherall, Louis Hartley, and many others for that. There

are so many who, like me, went to Austin again and again for years,

struggling with language for the rules, developing testing standards,

and so forth. The skill testing standards were something that we

developed that were, IMHO, a model for the country.

Some think I'm down on the medics at the scene. Nothing could be further

from the truth. It is the system that's bad, not the medics. Heroic

things were done by Northwest Fire, Rural/Metro, Golder Ranch, and

Tucson Fire/EMS. But they work within a framework that, in many ways,

makes little sense.

I was asked today why I chose to post my concerns to the Texas list. I

will try to explain why. First, the Texas list is a big list and many

people from other states belond. Second, misuse of helicopter EMS is an

issue in Texas as well as AZ and in many other places. Third, I still

know lots of people on the list and think they might be interested in

the problems we have here, as contrasted by the problems they have.

By pointing out how things work or don't work here, I hope to help Texas

folks appreciate what they have and strive to keep it.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim

then

I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many

people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone

there

for witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to

control

it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the

scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she

was

taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right

turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all

traffic

laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed

to

60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected at

1100

this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

lights,

cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can be on

scene

and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for

its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can

these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and

which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Yes but I suspect that cops are shot at a little bit more and much more

frequently.

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> But have you been shot at or had a round hit your truck on a job?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

>

>

> > Hey, as I've told many a patient, " I'm not the po-lice. "

> >

> > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> > CPR Instructor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> 240

> >>

> >> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >> Please excuse any typos.

> >> (Cell)

> >> LNMolino@...

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>> Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

> >>>

> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> >>> CPR Instructor

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

> >>>>

> >>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >>>> Please excuse any typos.

> >>>> (Cell)

> >>>> LNMolino@...

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>> ,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Gene

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> >>>>>> available

> >>>>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> >>>>>> victim then

> >>>>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> >>>>>> ambulance

> >>>>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> >>>>>> many

> >>>>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> >>>>>> everyone there

> >>>>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> >>>>>> to control

> >>>>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> >>>>>> Oracle, the

> >>>>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> >>>>>> she was

> >>>>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> >>>>>> right

> >>>>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> >>>>>> all traffic

> >>>>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> >>>>>> timed to

> >>>>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> >>>>>> at 1100

> >>>>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> >>>>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> >>>>>> lights,

> >>>>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> >>>>>> be on scene

> >>>>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> >>>>>> shocking for its

> >>>>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> >>>>>> can these

> >>>>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> >>>>>> and which

> >>>>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> >>>>>> thinking?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> GG

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

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Posted
Posted

Yes but I suspect that cops are shot at a little bit more and much more

frequently.

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> But have you been shot at or had a round hit your truck on a job?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

>

>

> > Hey, as I've told many a patient, " I'm not the po-lice. "

> >

> > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> > CPR Instructor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> 240

> >>

> >> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >> Please excuse any typos.

> >> (Cell)

> >> LNMolino@...

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>> Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky Rescue " ?

> >>>

> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> >>> CPR Instructor

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

> >>>>

> >>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >>>> Please excuse any typos.

> >>>> (Cell)

> >>>> LNMolino@...

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>> ,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old bird " and

" old geezer. " You'll get both!

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Gene

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and

> >>>>>> available

> >>>>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting

> >>>>>> victim then

> >>>>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground

> >>>>>> ambulance

> >>>>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had

> >>>>>> many

> >>>>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> >>>>>> everyone there

> >>>>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> >>>>>> to control

> >>>>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> >>>>>> Oracle, the

> >>>>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where

> >>>>>> she was

> >>>>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two

> >>>>>> right

> >>>>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> >>>>>> all traffic

> >>>>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each

> >>>>>> timed to

> >>>>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have expected

> >>>>>> at 1100

> >>>>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been

> >>>>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all green

> >>>>>> lights,

> >>>>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> >>>>>> be on scene

> >>>>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> >>>>>> shocking for its

> >>>>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What

> >>>>>> can these

> >>>>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system

> >>>>>> and which

> >>>>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be

> >>>>>> thinking?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> GG

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

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Posted
Posted

At least they can return fire!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential

materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

domain by the original author.

In a message dated 1/11/2011 11:39:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,

amwoods8644@... writes:

Yes but I suspect that cops are shot at a little bit more and much more

frequently.

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

(210) 842-6428

> But have you been shot at or had a round hit your truck on a job?

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

>

>

> > Hey, as I've told many a patient, " I'm not the po-lice. "

> >

> > Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> > CPR Instructor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> 240

> >>

> >> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >> Please excuse any typos.

> >> (Cell)

> >> LNMolino@...

> >>

> >> On Jan 10, 2011, at 23:36, Alyssa Woods amwoods8644@...>

wrote:

> >>

> >>> Can I get one that says, " N00B " ? Or have I graduated to " Ricky

Rescue " ?

> >>>

> >>> Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

> >>> CPR Instructor

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>> And can I get a guess as to the third level? Old #?*!

> >>>>

> >>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> >>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> >>>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> >>>> Please excuse any typos.

> >>>> (Cell)

> >>>> LNMolino@...

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>> ,

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I am commissioning a pin, a patch, and a T-shirt for both " old

bird " and " old geezer. " You'll get both!

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Gene

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an

MCI.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed

and

> >>>>>> available

> >>>>>>>> HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single

shooting

> >>>>>> victim then

> >>>>>>>> I would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind

ground

> >>>>>> ambulance

> >>>>>>>> ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely

had

> >>>>>> many

> >>>>>>>> people trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep

> >>>>>> everyone there

> >>>>>>>> for witness statements, etc.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way

> >>>>>> to control

> >>>>>>>> it. I don't think this is an obvious example though.

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> --- In texasems-l

> >>>>>> ;

> >>>>>> ;; ,

> >>>>>>>> wegandy1938@... wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North

> >>>>>> Oracle, the

> >>>>>>>> scene of the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center

where

> >>>>>> she was

> >>>>>>>> taken. The distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and

two

> >>>>>> right

> >>>>>>>> turns between the scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed

> >>>>>> all traffic

> >>>>>>>> laws, drove exactly the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights,

each

> >>>>>> timed to

> >>>>>>>> 60 seconds. Traffic was moderate, about what I would have

expected

> >>>>>> at 1100

> >>>>>>>> this morning in that area. My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had

been

> >>>>>>>> operating Code 3, the Opticom system would have given me all

green

> >>>>>> lights,

> >>>>>>>> cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me that a helo can

> >>>>>> be on scene

> >>>>>>>> and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10 minutes.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only

> >>>>>> shocking for its

> >>>>>>>> stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes.

What

> >>>>>> can these

> >>>>>>>> people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control

system

> >>>>>> and which

> >>>>>>>> dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County,

be

> >>>>>> thinking?

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>> GG

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> =

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> --

> >>>>> Grayson

> >>>>> www.kellygrayson.com

> >>>>>

> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>>>>

> >>>>> ------------------------------------

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

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