Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Before we start castigating the air EMS industry let's find out what happened. Was there a problem with the aircraft that wasn't properly handled by the pilot? Did the pilot push weather, etc.? The FAA is the sole authority on aviation in this country because if you had every political entity wanting to regulate the airspace around them, no pilot would be able to fly because no one can remember all of the different rules. Something that is perfectly legal in one airspace would be illegal in another. It would be tantamount to allowing ambulances to drive 20 over the speed limit in one municipality but not allow any over the limit in the next. Your driver would be stopped for speeding when he had just left an area that speeding was allowed. Its too confusing for the operator. Unfortunately the FAA is a political organization and like all political organizations, they yield to the money. Air ambulance operators have a lot a sway with congress, who controls the purse strings. The NTSB recommends to the FAA. The FAA wants to implement a change but the lobbyist step in and a regulation gets watered down or deleted altogether. Its a sad fact of life but mistakes get made. Pilots will perceive pressure to fly a flight, either because of the " pilot to the rescue " syndrome or higher management is telling them that their numbers are too low and if more flights aren't generated, then the base may close. Pilots are human and as humans, they occassionally make mistakes. Just like ground crews make mistakes. We try to avoid them but mistakes happen. We don't have massive calls to do away with ground ambulances when one is involved in an accident. We don't have calls to do away with paramedics just because some use the wrong drug or procedure. Kirk EMT-B ATP COMM ASMEL-I Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don’t compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It’s just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It’s the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: rob.davis@... ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: texasems-l ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Kansas City Star is reporting it ran out of fuel. Jim< Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don't compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It's just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let's not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don't have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It's the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It's the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: rob.davis@... ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: texasems-l ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Besides the State of Texas having the 'â€full†power to issue an Air Medical EMS Provider License they have the legal authority to regulate them in Texas as well as issue penalties for those that fail to follow the regulations or rules. The power lies in Texas for those in Texas. Texas should shine and be a “leader†and not someone sitting in the stands as a fan, it’s the “Texas†responsibility by the Texas Legislature to promulgate the rules and investigate, which includes unannounced inspections. No one is castigating the Air EMS Industry from what I’ve read on this thread at all, if so then when and which post. You are making the same case of every crash and that would be well it may be the pilot, pressure, ect, etc,, Well you can’t just keep making excuses. Excuses are for those that like to follow and not lead and so far in the Safety area very few are leading, and there are some Air Medical Services that are doing things on their own, but that only makes their services safer and that is a start, but the end to the means. My 2 cents and an extra penny Ron From: Kirk Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 10:47 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash Before we start castigating the air EMS industry let's find out what happened. Was there a problem with the aircraft that wasn't properly handled by the pilot? Did the pilot push weather, etc.? The FAA is the sole authority on aviation in this country because if you had every political entity wanting to regulate the airspace around them, no pilot would be able to fly because no one can remember all of the different rules. Something that is perfectly legal in one airspace would be illegal in another. It would be tantamount to allowing ambulances to drive 20 over the speed limit in one municipality but not allow any over the limit in the next. Your driver would be stopped for speeding when he had just left an area that speeding was allowed. Its too confusing for the operator. Unfortunately the FAA is a political organization and like all political organizations, they yield to the money. Air ambulance operators have a lot a sway with congress, who controls the purse strings. The NTSB recommends to the FAA. The FAA wants to implement a change but the lobbyist step in and a regulation gets watered down or deleted altogether. Its a sad fact of life but mistakes get made. Pilots will perceive pressure to fly a flight, either because of the " pilot to the rescue " syndrome or higher management is telling them that their numbers are too low and if more flights aren't generated, then the base may close. Pilots are human and as humans, they occassionally make mistakes. Just like ground crews make mistakes. We try to avoid them but mistakes happen. We don't have massive calls to do away with ground ambulances when one is involved in an accident. We don't have calls to do away with paramedics just because some use the wrong drug or procedure. Kirk EMT-B ATP COMM ASMEL-I Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don’t compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It’s just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It’s the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Besides the State of Texas having the 'â€full†power to issue an Air Medical EMS Provider License they have the legal authority to regulate them in Texas as well as issue penalties for those that fail to follow the regulations or rules. The power lies in Texas for those in Texas. Texas should shine and be a “leader†and not someone sitting in the stands as a fan, it’s the “Texas†responsibility by the Texas Legislature to promulgate the rules and investigate, which includes unannounced inspections. No one is castigating the Air EMS Industry from what I’ve read on this thread at all, if so then when and which post. You are making the same case of every crash and that would be well it may be the pilot, pressure, ect, etc,, Well you can’t just keep making excuses. Excuses are for those that like to follow and not lead and so far in the Safety area very few are leading, and there are some Air Medical Services that are doing things on their own, but that only makes their services safer and that is a start, but the end to the means. My 2 cents and an extra penny Ron From: Kirk Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 10:47 PM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash Before we start castigating the air EMS industry let's find out what happened. Was there a problem with the aircraft that wasn't properly handled by the pilot? Did the pilot push weather, etc.? The FAA is the sole authority on aviation in this country because if you had every political entity wanting to regulate the airspace around them, no pilot would be able to fly because no one can remember all of the different rules. Something that is perfectly legal in one airspace would be illegal in another. It would be tantamount to allowing ambulances to drive 20 over the speed limit in one municipality but not allow any over the limit in the next. Your driver would be stopped for speeding when he had just left an area that speeding was allowed. Its too confusing for the operator. Unfortunately the FAA is a political organization and like all political organizations, they yield to the money. Air ambulance operators have a lot a sway with congress, who controls the purse strings. The NTSB recommends to the FAA. The FAA wants to implement a change but the lobbyist step in and a regulation gets watered down or deleted altogether. Its a sad fact of life but mistakes get made. Pilots will perceive pressure to fly a flight, either because of the " pilot to the rescue " syndrome or higher management is telling them that their numbers are too low and if more flights aren't generated, then the base may close. Pilots are human and as humans, they occassionally make mistakes. Just like ground crews make mistakes. We try to avoid them but mistakes happen. We don't have massive calls to do away with ground ambulances when one is involved in an accident. We don't have calls to do away with paramedics just because some use the wrong drug or procedure. Kirk EMT-B ATP COMM ASMEL-I Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don’t compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It’s just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It’s the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Haven’t we heard this on other crashes before? I’m pretty sure we have. Thanks for perhaps some insight Ron From: Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:15 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash Kansas City Star is reporting it ran out of fuel. Jim< Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don't compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It's just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let's not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don't have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It's the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It's the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Haven’t we heard this on other crashes before? I’m pretty sure we have. Thanks for perhaps some insight Ron From: Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:15 PM To: texasems-l Subject: RE: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash Kansas City Star is reporting it ran out of fuel. Jim< Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. As far as umber of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and oranges. How many ground MS calls are made compared to air medical. We don't compare autBefo accidents to ircraft crashes do we. It's just apples and oranges. NTSB are political ppointees also and are not necessary the best folks to investigate what they re investigating. Let's not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are etting away from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address nd really don't have to have state or federal involvement if we can clean it up n our communities at the local level. It's the person on the ground asking for ctivation. Is it not? It's the State giving the Provider License, is it not? So t seems that would be the most logical place to start from grassroots up. Just y opinion and everyone has one. on From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com ent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM o: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com ubject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash n Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " aid: > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash resulting in fatalities. That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far from eality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be thorough on. nd unless political pressure is present, they're most likely to walk away with " good guess " being good enough. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 My experience as a private pilot and with the Civil Air Patrol was that NTSB did a good job with the air craft crashes in which I had an interest. Your experience may well be different. But we do compare air travel with auto travel. When last I checked and on a per mile basis it was safer to go by plane (even private aircraft) than by car. It is that comparison that I suggested. That in no way negates the need to strive for increased safety in air medical. Any preventable air crash is one too many. What I don't see is any discussion of cause - poor maintenance, weather minimums, pilot error, training, etc. What is causing the accidents? Dick Celina Fire > > I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. > As far as number of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and > oranges. How many ground EMS calls are made compared to air medical. > We don’t compare auto accidents to aircraft crashes do we. It’s just > apples and oranges. NTSB are political appointees also and are not > necessary the best folks to investigate what they are investigating. > Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are getting away > from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address > and really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can > clean it up in our communities at the local level. It’s the person on > the ground asking for activation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the > Provider License, is it not? So it seems that would be the most > logical place to start from grassroots up. Just my opinion and > everyone has one. > Ron > > From: rob.davis@... > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM > To: texasems-l > Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash > > On Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " > said: > > > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash > > resulting in fatalities. > > That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far > from reality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be > thorough on. And unless political pressure is present, they're most > likely to walk away with a " good guess " being good enough. > > Rob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Along with your question, I’d ask “as any Air Medical Company been punished by any level of Government†for mistakes. They fine airlines all the time. Ron From: Dick Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:08 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash My experience as a private pilot and with the Civil Air Patrol was that NTSB did a good job with the air craft crashes in which I had an interest. Your experience may well be different. But we do compare air travel with auto travel. When last I checked and on a per mile basis it was safer to go by plane (even private aircraft) than by car. It is that comparison that I suggested. That in no way negates the need to strive for increased safety in air medical. Any preventable air crash is one too many. What I don't see is any discussion of cause - poor maintenance, weather minimums, pilot error, training, etc. What is causing the accidents? Dick Celina Fire > > I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. > As far as number of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and > oranges. How many ground EMS calls are made compared to air medical. > We don’t compare auto accidents to aircraft crashes do we. It’s just > apples and oranges. NTSB are political appointees also and are not > necessary the best folks to investigate what they are investigating. > Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are getting away > from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address > and really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can > clean it up in our communities at the local level. It’s the person on > the ground asking for activation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the > Provider License, is it not? So it seems that would be the most > logical place to start from grassroots up. Just my opinion and > everyone has one. > Ron > > From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM > To: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash > > On Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " > said: > > > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash > > resulting in fatalities. > > That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far > from reality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be > thorough on. And unless political pressure is present, they're most > likely to walk away with a " good guess " being good enough. > > Rob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yes, they fine airlines all the time, and it doesn't make a bit of difference in their conduct. Fines don't work. Now, if we want to make a difference we'll pass laws that attach criminal conduct to the CEOS that participate in this crap. But as long as the politicians are bought and sold by the business interests, there will be no improvement. No CEO or manager will ever be held responsible for anything that happens, nor will one ever be sent to jail. Too bad. In my version of justice, the CEO of any airline or other transportation entity found to violate the law would serve jail time. NO fines. Just jail time. For example, for every passenger denied boarding for over-booking, the CEO of the airline would serve 30 days in jail. For every minute that a passenger is forced to sit out on the runway because the airline doesn't have a gate available, the CEO will do an hour in jail. Can you get with this? LOL. If a provider was found to have violated a regulation, the CEO would serve time in jail for each and every violation. Or, if a politician, member of Congress or a State Legislature, was found to have voted on a bill that was in favor of a donor to her or his campaign. there would be a mandatory 1 year in jail imposed for each vote, no parole or probation possible. What fun! I would love to run the prison. Jail is a powerful negative motivation for conduct. But the wrong people go to jail. We send people to jail who are idiots, morons, and fools, but we don't send people to jail who are smart, clever, and who work the system to their advantage. We should. Fines don't work. Jail may. GG Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash > > On Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " > ; said: > > > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash > > resulting in fatalities. > > That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far > from reality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be > thorough on. And unless political pressure is present, they're most > likely to walk away with a " good guess " being good enough. > > Rob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yes, they fine airlines all the time, and it doesn't make a bit of difference in their conduct. Fines don't work. Now, if we want to make a difference we'll pass laws that attach criminal conduct to the CEOS that participate in this crap. But as long as the politicians are bought and sold by the business interests, there will be no improvement. No CEO or manager will ever be held responsible for anything that happens, nor will one ever be sent to jail. Too bad. In my version of justice, the CEO of any airline or other transportation entity found to violate the law would serve jail time. NO fines. Just jail time. For example, for every passenger denied boarding for over-booking, the CEO of the airline would serve 30 days in jail. For every minute that a passenger is forced to sit out on the runway because the airline doesn't have a gate available, the CEO will do an hour in jail. Can you get with this? LOL. If a provider was found to have violated a regulation, the CEO would serve time in jail for each and every violation. Or, if a politician, member of Congress or a State Legislature, was found to have voted on a bill that was in favor of a donor to her or his campaign. there would be a mandatory 1 year in jail imposed for each vote, no parole or probation possible. What fun! I would love to run the prison. Jail is a powerful negative motivation for conduct. But the wrong people go to jail. We send people to jail who are idiots, morons, and fools, but we don't send people to jail who are smart, clever, and who work the system to their advantage. We should. Fines don't work. Jail may. GG Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash > > On Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " > ; said: > > > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > crash > > resulting in fatalities. > > That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far > from reality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be > thorough on. And unless political pressure is present, they're most > likely to walk away with a " good guess " being good enough. > > Rob > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 States currently have difficulty trying to regulate commerce, safety and flight items. That is why air subscriptions have gotten out of control. It is based on Federal Exemptions. The feds are recognizing some of this. Please note below: You can gain access to the legislative language of these bills by clicking on the hyperlinks below. 1. S 1407 (Air Ambulance Services) – Introduced by Sens. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Cantwell (D-WA) on July 22. This bill would create a process to accredit air ambulances and place them within one of three (Level I, II or III) accreditation levels. Medicare reimbursement rates would be tied to accreditation level. Medicaid reimbursement dependent on state submission of air transport plans and subsequent compliance with FICEMS guidelines. 2. HR 1117 (Air Ambulance Patient Safety, Protection and Coordination Act) – Introduced by Reps. (R-MI) and Altmire (D-PA) on March 16. Authorizes states to regulate medical aspects of intrastate air ambulance services (quality, availability, communication, accessibility, physical attributes of air ambulances). Requires air ambulance service provider licensed in more than one state to comply with the most stringent regulation, if different. Requires states to negotiate mutual aid agreements with adjacent states. > > > > I worked on investigations with NTSB for two years and that is true. > > As far as number of ground accidents vs air medical is apples and > > oranges. How many ground EMS calls are made compared to air medical. > > We don’t compare auto accidents to aircraft crashes do we. It’s just > > apples and oranges. NTSB are political appointees also and are not > > necessary the best folks to investigate what they are investigating. > > Let’s not for get appointee Brown during Katrina. We are getting away > > from the SAFETY issue which we in the EMS community need to address > > and really don’t have to have state or federal involvement if we can > > clean it up in our communities at the local level. It’s the person on > > the ground asking for activation. Is it not? It’s the State giving the > > Provider License, is it not? So it seems that would be the most > > logical place to start from grassroots up. Just my opinion and > > everyone has one. > > Ron > > > > From: mailto:rob.davis%40armynursecorps.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:30 PM > > To: mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash > > > > On Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:45, " Dick " > > said: > > > > > My experience is that NTSB does a very thorough evaluation of every > > crash > > > resulting in fatalities. > > > > That's the illusion they want you to buy into, but trust me, it is far > > from reality. The NTSB cherry-picks what they do and do not want to be > > thorough on. And unless political pressure is present, they're most > > likely to walk away with a " good guess " being good enough. > > > > Rob > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 The state can't Ron because the FAA sets the rules of the game. The state tried to step in with a CAMTS type set of standards and were promptly swatted down by the courts and the FAA. Nice try to politicize this but.....swing and a miss. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T EMS Helo Crash > Reply-To: mailto:Paramedicine%40yahoogroups.com > > KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Lifenet helicopter crashed near Mosby Airport in > Excelsior Springs, Missouri Friday evening around 7 p.m. > > At 6:55 p.m. Lifenet called the Clay County Sheriff's Department stating > that they had a helicopter that was missing. Shortly thereafter the crash > was reported. > > NBC Action News has confirmed that all four on board the flight were killed > in the crash. Three of the individuals were crewmembers and one was a > passenger. > > Jim< > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 The state can't Ron because the FAA sets the rules of the game. The state tried to step in with a CAMTS type set of standards and were promptly swatted down by the courts and the FAA. Nice try to politicize this but.....swing and a miss. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T EMS Helo Crash > Reply-To: mailto:Paramedicine%40yahoogroups.com > > KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Lifenet helicopter crashed near Mosby Airport in > Excelsior Springs, Missouri Friday evening around 7 p.m. > > At 6:55 p.m. Lifenet called the Clay County Sheriff's Department stating > that they had a helicopter that was missing. Shortly thereafter the crash > was reported. > > NBC Action News has confirmed that all four on board the flight were killed > in the crash. Three of the individuals were crewmembers and one was a > passenger. > > Jim< > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I don’t know who this is posting, who you work for or represent. I don’t know anyone as spiband@... I think the rules of this group are you put you name on your post please. Also who are you, who do you represent, who do you work for? Where did you get your information? You “darn†sure swung and struck out when you thought you knew me in person or any other way other than Google or hearsay. Last but not least I will do everything I can to say an innocent life, even if you prefer innocent people die for you reasons unknown to me. It sounds like you would like nothing better than to see medics, pilots and patients to continue to die when they don’t have too. Hmmm!!!! The word CANâ€T doesn’t exist for me since I believe in “can do and will doâ€. Maybe you “can’t†but don’t underestimate, and judge others or their ability including me please. Sincerely with all respect to this unknown person, Ron Haussecker EMT –P From: spiband@... Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:58 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash The state can't Ron because the FAA sets the rules of the game. The state tried to step in with a CAMTS type set of standards and were promptly swatted down by the courts and the FAA. Nice try to politicize this but.....swing and a miss. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T EMS Helo Crash > Reply-To: mailto:Paramedicine%40yahoogroups.com > > KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Lifenet helicopter crashed near Mosby Airport in > Excelsior Springs, Missouri Friday evening around 7 p.m. > > At 6:55 p.m. Lifenet called the Clay County Sheriff's Department stating > that they had a helicopter that was missing. Shortly thereafter the crash > was reported. > > NBC Action News has confirmed that all four on board the flight were killed > in the crash. Three of the individuals were crewmembers and one was a > passenger. > > Jim< > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I don’t know who this is posting, who you work for or represent. I don’t know anyone as spiband@... I think the rules of this group are you put you name on your post please. Also who are you, who do you represent, who do you work for? Where did you get your information? You “darn†sure swung and struck out when you thought you knew me in person or any other way other than Google or hearsay. Last but not least I will do everything I can to say an innocent life, even if you prefer innocent people die for you reasons unknown to me. It sounds like you would like nothing better than to see medics, pilots and patients to continue to die when they don’t have too. Hmmm!!!! The word CANâ€T doesn’t exist for me since I believe in “can do and will doâ€. Maybe you “can’t†but don’t underestimate, and judge others or their ability including me please. Sincerely with all respect to this unknown person, Ron Haussecker EMT –P From: spiband@... Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 7:58 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: Fwd: EMS Helo Crash The state can't Ron because the FAA sets the rules of the game. The state tried to step in with a CAMTS type set of standards and were promptly swatted down by the courts and the FAA. Nice try to politicize this but.....swing and a miss. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T EMS Helo Crash > Reply-To: mailto:Paramedicine%40yahoogroups.com > > KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Lifenet helicopter crashed near Mosby Airport in > Excelsior Springs, Missouri Friday evening around 7 p.m. > > At 6:55 p.m. Lifenet called the Clay County Sheriff's Department stating > that they had a helicopter that was missing. Shortly thereafter the crash > was reported. > > NBC Action News has confirmed that all four on board the flight were killed > in the crash. Three of the individuals were crewmembers and one was a > passenger. > > Jim< > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 On Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:09, " Ron Haussecker " haussecker87@...> said: > I don’t know who this is posting, who you work for or represent. I > don’t know anyone as spiband@... I think the rules of this group are > you put you name on your post please. The forum rules were posted today, as they are on the first day of each month. There is no such rule, and never was. There is, however, a rule that you respect others' privacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Unfortunately, politics (from many directions) affect our lives every day. This issue of state regulation vs FAA is sadly true. I would encourage everyone to review this bill and contact your US Rep and Senators with your opinions on this matter. Since I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what the real impact would be... http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.1117: H.R.1117 -- Air Ambulance Patient Safety, Protection, and Coordination Act (Introduced in House - IH) HR 1117 IH 112th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 1117 To recognize and clarify the authority of the States to regulate the medical aspects of intrastate air ambulance services pursuant to their authority over health care services, patient safety and protection, emergency medical care, the quality and coordination of medical care, and the practice of medicine within their jurisdictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Unfortunately, politics (from many directions) affect our lives every day. This issue of state regulation vs FAA is sadly true. I would encourage everyone to review this bill and contact your US Rep and Senators with your opinions on this matter. Since I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what the real impact would be... http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.1117: H.R.1117 -- Air Ambulance Patient Safety, Protection, and Coordination Act (Introduced in House - IH) HR 1117 IH 112th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 1117 To recognize and clarify the authority of the States to regulate the medical aspects of intrastate air ambulance services pursuant to their authority over health care services, patient safety and protection, emergency medical care, the quality and coordination of medical care, and the practice of medicine within their jurisdictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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