Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El Paso , Tx.

[Guest guest]

Rob, I agree with you 100%.

All these extra duties is nothing more than job security.

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[Guest guest]

Rob, I agree with you 100%.

All these extra duties is nothing more than job security.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/2010 5:53:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

lwd7734@... writes:

All these extra duties is nothing more than job security.

And that's a bad thing?

Maybe explains why when cuts need to be made Cops and Fire guys (and gals)

are generally a bit safer than EMS folks?

Of course no EMS person could ever learn from a fire or LEO type, can't

happen.

LNM

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

I agree with this as well. Why are fire engines responding in an emergency mode,

blowing stop signs/lights and getting to the scene and then pull out the lock

kit or slim jim. If you have to respond in an emergency mode then pop the glass,

this is a " rescue. " These departments never even consider the liability they

have if they end up in a wreck and hurt or kill someone.

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[Guest guest]

Execellent points Gene, but what do we do in the mean time to educate the public

when it is appropriate to call 911?

____________________________________________________________

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If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program

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[Guest guest]

Execellent points Gene, but what do we do in the mean time to educate the public

when it is appropriate to call 911?

____________________________________________________________

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If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program

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[Guest guest]

Barry I agree with you, but the FD is responding on all 'lockouts' in an

emergency mode. In most jurisdictions the PD's quit unlocking cars because of

the liability for damages so why did the FD's take on the job?

____________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

You are making a general statement, I am familiar with two Fire Departments in

my area that run on " lock out " calls. They do not run lights and siren unless

information is there is a life threat. As far as PD's stopping due to liability,

why is there liability? Too damn many lawyers that's why (sorry Gene and Wes).

We should not have the ability to sue someone who came to our aid and performed

a service in good faith and to the best of their ability.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of lwd7734@...

Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:16 AM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El Paso

, Tx.

Barry I agree with you, but the FD is responding on all 'lockouts' in an

emergency mode. In most jurisdictions the PD's quit unlocking cars because of

the liability for damages so why did the FD's take on the job?

__________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/30/2010 9:55:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lwd7734@... writes:

I agree with this as well. Why are fire engines responding in an emergency

mode, blowing stop signs/lights and getting to the scene and then pull out

the lock kit or slim jim. If you have to respond in an emergency mode then

pop the glass, this is a " rescue. " These departments never even consider

the liability they have if they end up in a wreck and hurt or kill someone.

Guess what I agree but I also know that any RESPONSIBLE FIRE CHIEF would

beat the crap out of anyone doing that.

If he doesn't he has no right to wear the 5 crossed

horns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The vast majority of places that DO THESE " PR " type Service calls do NOT

RUN HOT!!!!!!

Not that I expect anyone in this discussion save a few will believe that as

a fact.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

Nah, Lou, it's more fun to make of the firemen.

Wes

Sent from my iPad

>

>

> In a message dated 7/30/2010 9:55:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

> lwd7734@... writes:

>

> I agree with this as well. Why are fire engines responding in an emergency

> mode, blowing stop signs/lights and getting to the scene and then pull out

> the lock kit or slim jim. If you have to respond in an emergency mode then

> pop the glass, this is a " rescue. " These departments never even consider

> the liability they have if they end up in a wreck and hurt or kill someone.

>

> Guess what I agree but I also know that any RESPONSIBLE FIRE CHIEF would

> beat the crap out of anyone doing that.

>

> If he doesn't he has no right to wear the 5 crossed

> horns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

>

> The vast majority of places that DO THESE " PR " type Service calls do NOT

> RUN HOT!!!!!!

>

> Not that I expect anyone in this discussion save a few will believe that as

> a fact.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

>

[Guest guest]

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and I

don't see a valid claim.

[Guest guest]

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and I

don't see a valid claim.

[Guest guest]

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and I

don't see a valid claim.

[Guest guest]

ok...that being the case, and considering that lawyers are not normally

allowed into Small Claims court unless they are an actual party involved, who

would respond for the city? the Mayor? Fire Commissioner? Fire Chief?

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 20:38:17 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Yes the city would have to respond or a default judgment would be taken.

G

Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El

Paso , Tx.

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

_wegandy@..._ (mailto:wegandy@...) writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and

I

don't see a valid claim.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

ok...that being the case, and considering that lawyers are not normally

allowed into Small Claims court unless they are an actual party involved, who

would respond for the city? the Mayor? Fire Commissioner? Fire Chief?

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 20:38:17 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Yes the city would have to respond or a default judgment would be taken.

G

Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El

Paso , Tx.

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

_wegandy@..._ (mailto:wegandy@...) writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and

I

don't see a valid claim.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

ok...that being the case, and considering that lawyers are not normally

allowed into Small Claims court unless they are an actual party involved, who

would respond for the city? the Mayor? Fire Commissioner? Fire Chief?

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 20:38:17 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Yes the city would have to respond or a default judgment would be taken.

G

Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El

Paso , Tx.

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

_wegandy@..._ (mailto:wegandy@...) writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and

I

don't see a valid claim.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

On Friday, July 30, 2010 10:30, rick.moore@... said:

> why is there liability? Too damn many lawyers that's why (sorry Gene and Wes).

We

> should not have the ability to sue someone who came to our aid and performed a

> service in good faith and to the best of their ability.

It's not about being sued. It's about your attempt at " customer satisfaction "

backfiring on you, and having an irate citizen calling the mayor because you

scratched his $200 dollar window tinting, scratched or broke his glass, shorted

out his electric windows or locks, broke the linkage, or popped his air bag just

because you wanted to pull a cheap political stunt. Now, the city is either

going to man-up and pay for the damages, still leaving the citizen pissed off,

or else stiff them and piss them off even more.

Not to mention the number of times that the fire department is unable to unlock

the car, and ends up calling a locksmith anyhow, after an hour of wasting the

customer's time.

If the numbers for this " service " are as low as everyone says, then it's simply

not worth the risk. If the numbers are as high as I hear from the Dallas, Fort

Worth, and Arlington Fire Departments, then they are heavily screwing local

locksmith services, who by they way, are also taxpaying citizens.

If the fire department wants to play politics like this, trying to be all things

to all people, let them limit it to services that do not compete with the local

businessmen who pay their salaries. After all, they are " customers " too, and

there seems to be no interest in their " satisfaction " .

Rob

[Guest guest]

On Friday, July 30, 2010 09:56, " lwd7734@... " lwd7734@...> said:

> Execellent points Gene, but what do we do in the mean time to educate the

public

> when it is appropriate to call 911?

After many years of pondering this question, I have concluded that public

education is not the answer. It just doesn't work. Instead, we should focus on

educating 911 operators to properly provide the needed resources and referrals

to the public when they call.

Rob

[Guest guest]

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[Guest guest]

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend $5,000 to

pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case against

the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and I don't see a

valid claim.

GG

RE: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El Paso

, Tx.

Barry I agree with you, but the FD is responding on all 'lockouts' in an

emergency mode. In most jurisdictions the PD's quit unlocking cars because of

the liability for damages so why did the FD's take on the job?

__________________________________________________________

TODAY: iPads for $123.74?

ALERT: iPads are being auctioned for 95% off today!

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[Guest guest]

Yes the city would have to respond or a default judgment would be taken.

G

Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El Paso

, Tx.

would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

ck

In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

wegandy@... writes:

Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

$5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and I

don't see a valid claim.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I am not sure that a city can be sued for most claims in state court,

due to sovereign immunity. You'd typically have to bring the claim in Federal

court, which would require a claim founded on Federal law. And sorry, but

damage due to a slim Jim job probably couldn't be construed into a Federal

claim.

Wes " not your lawyer " Ogilvie

Sent from my iPad

> ok...that being the case, and considering that lawyers are not normally

> allowed into Small Claims court unless they are an actual party involved, who

> would respond for the city? the Mayor? Fire Commissioner? Fire Chief?

>

> ck

>

>

> In a message dated 7/30/2010 20:38:17 Central Daylight Time,

> wegandy@... writes:

>

> Yes the city would have to respond or a default judgment would be taken.

>

> G

>

> Re: Re: Fewer Firefighters to Respond to Calls in El

> Paso , Tx.

>

> would the city have to respond to a Small Claims Court?

>

> IIRC, that's what happened in Monroe a decade or so ago.

>

> ck

>

> In a message dated 7/30/2010 19:14:10 Central Daylight Time,

> _wegandy@..._ (mailto:wegandy@...) writes:

>

> Liability for what? Damage to the car? I know of no lawyers who would take

> such a case without a hefty ratainer in advance. Who's going to spend

> $5,000 to pay a lawyer to get a $200 judgment? This does not compute.

>

> Litigation costs a lot of money. Even if somebody files a pro se case

> against the PD, it's going to cost them more than they would ever get, and

> I

> don't see a valid claim.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Friday, July 30, 2010 22:02, " Wes Ogilvie " wes.ogilvie@...> said:

> And sorry, but damage

> due to a slim Jim job probably couldn't be construed into a Federal claim.

Agreed. But the stink that citizen may raise in the media if the city didn't

pay out would be worth a LOT more than the money! Especially since this is

supposed to be all about " customer service " .

Rob

[Guest guest]

On Friday, July 30, 2010 22:02, " Wes Ogilvie " wes.ogilvie@...> said:

> And sorry, but damage

> due to a slim Jim job probably couldn't be construed into a Federal claim.

Agreed. But the stink that citizen may raise in the media if the city didn't

pay out would be worth a LOT more than the money! Especially since this is

supposed to be all about " customer service " .

Rob