Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

[Guest guest]

.... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport criteria.

Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

" Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers

by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of

Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and includes

the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

My favourite quote:

" " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center

at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

Rob

[Guest guest]

I kicked the article over to the Trauma List and sent a cc: to a chap who

knows the Rochester area quite well...we'll see what pops up from there...

ck

In a message dated 01/08/11 03:47:54 Central Standard Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

No possible bias there.

GG

-----Original Message-----

To: texasems-l

Sent: Fri, Jan 7, 2011 8:52 pm

Subject: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

" Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers

by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of

Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and includes the

largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

My favourite quote:

" " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center

at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

Rob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Guest guest]

No possible bias there.

GG

Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

" Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers by

ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of Trauma:

Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to examine the role

of helicopter transport on a national level and includes the largest number of

helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

My favourite quote:

" " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center at

the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

Rob

[Guest guest]

Gee timing is downright ironic given the AZ incident. I need to read this.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

On Jan 7, 2011, at 21:52, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...> wrote:

> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>

> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers by

ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of Trauma:

Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to examine the role

of helicopter transport on a national level and includes the largest number of

helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

>

> My favourite quote:

>

> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center at

the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>

> Rob

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the scene of

the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was taken. The

distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right turns between the

scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic laws, drove exactly

the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to 60 seconds. Traffic was

moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100 this morning in that area.

My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been operating Code 3, the Opticom system

would have given me all green lights, cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip.

Tell me that a helo can be on scene and back at the hospital ready to unload in

10 minutes.

The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Gee timing is downright ironic given the AZ incident. I need to read this.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

Please excuse any typos.

(Cell)

LNMolino@...

On Jan 7, 2011, at 21:52, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...> wrote:

> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>

> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers by

ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of Trauma:

Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to examine the role

of helicopter transport on a national level and includes the largest number of

helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

>

> My favourite quote:

>

> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center at

the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>

> Rob

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then I

would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many people

trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there for

witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control it.

I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the scene of

the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was taken. The

distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right turns between the

scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic laws, drove exactly

the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to 60 seconds. Traffic was

moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100 this morning in that area.

My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been operating Code 3, the Opticom system

would have given me all green lights, cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip.

Tell me that a helo can be on scene and back at the hospital ready to unload in

10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now, my experience is admittedly limited, but I have noted that some people call

a helicopter when they're scared. They have this belief that somehow, the

paramedic or nurse on the helicopter will be better able to handle the patient,

and will know what to do, due solely to the fact that they got the position on

the helicopter.

However, in this specific case, due to the high profile of the victim and the

large amount of news media on the scene, I can kind of understand using a

helicopter - the reporters cannot follow an air ambulance in droves, trying to

check out what's happening and snap pictures of the patients being unloaded.

Admittedly, maybe one or two news helicopters could, but they would most likely

be circling the scene itself instead. Provided that the difference between ETAs

was not that great, I cannot say I would have made the decision to transport the

patient myself.

And ultimately... I wasn't on-scene. So I don't know what all was going on, and

I'm not going to question the judgement of paramedics on a scene that I know

only secondhand information about.

No offense, Gandy, but I've been on one of those scenes where people are overly

critical without any information. It's unpleasant to be in that situation.

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the scene of

the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was taken. The

distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right turns between the

scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic laws, drove exactly

the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to 60 seconds. Traffic was

moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100 this morning in that area. My

elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been operating Code 3, the Opticom system would

have given me all green lights, cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip. Tell me

that a helo can be on scene and back at the hospital ready to unload in 10

minutes.

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

> GG

>

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> Gee timing is downright ironic given the AZ incident. I need to read this.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET

> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI

> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone.

> Please excuse any typos.

> (Cell)

> LNMolino@...

>

> On Jan 7, 2011, at 21:52, " rob.davis@... "

rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

> > Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

> >

> > " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma centers by

ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of Trauma:

Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to examine the role

of helicopter transport on a national level and includes the largest number of

helicopter-transport patients in a single analysis... "

> >

> > My favourite quote:

> >

> > " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma Center at

the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

> >

> > Rob

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I might defend the use in this case due to the fact it was an MCI.

Depending on unit availability, distance, etc; calling staffed and available

HEMS might not be unreasonable. If it was just a single shooting victim then I

would agree with you, Gene. You should also keep in mind ground ambulance

ingress/egress issues on this particular call. You very likely had many people

trying to leave the parking lot, police trying to keep everyone there for

witness statements, etc.

Overall, HEMS is an overused resource. I don't know the best way to control it.

I don't think this is an obvious example though.

>

> Earlier tonight I drove the route from West Ina and North Oracle, the scene of

the Giffords shooting, to University Medical Center where she was taken. The

distance is 8.7 miles. There are two left turns and two right turns between the

scene and the ambulance dock at UMC. I obeyed all traffic laws, drove exactly

the speed limit, and caught 6 red lights, each timed to 60 seconds. Traffic was

moderate, about what I would have expected at 1100 this morning in that area.

My elapsed time was 16:07. If I had been operating Code 3, the Opticom system

would have given me all green lights, cutting at least 6 minutes off the trip.

Tell me that a helo can be on scene and back at the hospital ready to unload in

10 minutes.

>

>

> The insane misuse of helicopter EMS in Tucson is not only shocking for its

stupidity but cannot possibly contribute to patient outcomes. What can these

people (the people who run Tucson Meds, the medical control system and which

dispatches all helicopters and all ambulances in Pima County, be thinking?

>

>

> I intend to find out. Stay tuned.

>

>

> GG

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake when

I was a kid.

Henry

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport criteria.

>

> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@... " <

> rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>

> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

> centers

> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of

> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and includes

> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

> analysis... "

>

> My favourite quote:

>

> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

> Center

> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake when

I was a kid.

Henry

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport criteria.

>

> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@... " <

> rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>

> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

> centers

> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of

> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and includes

> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

> analysis... "

>

> My favourite quote:

>

> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

> Center

> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, obviously you survived without the helicopter, although I can't

see how. You're a lucky, lucky man.

Henry Barber wrote:

>

> Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake

> when

> I was a kid.

>

> Henry

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> > ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport

> criteria.

> >

> > On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@...

> " <

> > rob.davis@...

> > wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

> >

> > " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene

> of an

> > accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

> > centers

> > by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The

> Journal of

> > Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

> > examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and

> includes

> > the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

> > analysis... "

> >

> > My favourite quote:

> >

> > " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

> > appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said

> Mark

> > Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

> > Center

> > at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

> >

> > Rob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well, obviously you survived without the helicopter, although I can't

see how. You're a lucky, lucky man.

Henry Barber wrote:

>

> Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake

> when

> I was a kid.

>

> Henry

> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>

> > ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport

> criteria.

> >

> > On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@...

> " <

> > rob.davis@...

> > wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

> >

> > " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene

> of an

> > accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

> > centers

> > by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The

> Journal of

> > Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

> > examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and

> includes

> > the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

> > analysis... "

> >

> > My favourite quote:

> >

> > " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

> > appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said

> Mark

> > Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

> > Center

> > at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

> >

> > Rob

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

He's surviving because of years of debriefings and other CISM modalities. Henry

just calls them fishing.

Wes

Sent from my iPad

> Well, obviously you survived without the helicopter, although I can't

> see how. You're a lucky, lucky man.

>

> Henry Barber wrote:

>>

>> Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake

>> when

>> I was a kid.

>>

>> Henry

>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>

>>> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport

>> criteria.

>>>

>>> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@...

>> " <

>>> rob.davis@...

>> > wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>>>

>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>>>

>>> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene

>> of an

>>> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

>>> centers

>>> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The

>> Journal of

>>> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

>>> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and

>> includes

>>> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

>>> analysis... "

>>>

>>> My favourite quote:

>>>

>>> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

>>> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said

>> Mark

>>> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

>>> Center

>>> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>>>

>>> Rob

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

He's surviving because of years of debriefings and other CISM modalities. Henry

just calls them fishing.

Wes

Sent from my iPad

> Well, obviously you survived without the helicopter, although I can't

> see how. You're a lucky, lucky man.

>

> Henry Barber wrote:

>>

>> Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake

>> when

>> I was a kid.

>>

>> Henry

>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>

>>> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport

>> criteria.

>>>

>>> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@...

>> " <

>>> rob.davis@...

>> > wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>>>

>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>>>

>>> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene

>> of an

>>> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

>>> centers

>>> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The

>> Journal of

>>> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

>>> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and

>> includes

>>> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

>>> analysis... "

>>>

>>> My favourite quote:

>>>

>>> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

>>> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said

>> Mark

>>> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

>>> Center

>>> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>>>

>>> Rob

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

So THAT'S what happened to you, Henry.... Explains a lot. LMAO

Jane Dinsmore

To: texasems-l

From: hbarber@...

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:09:39 -0600

Subject: Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake when

I was a kid.

Henry

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport criteria.

>

> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@... " <

> rob.davis@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>

> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene of an

> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

> centers

> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The Journal of

> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and includes

> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

> analysis... "

>

> My favourite quote:

>

> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said Mark

> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

> Center

> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>

> Rob

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, because he did not have helicopter transport to a Level I trauma

center following the assault by a rake handle, , Henry has experienced a

diminution of function, which has led him to concentrate his life on doing harm

to innocent fish.

GG

Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

He's surviving because of years of debriefings and other CISM modalities. Henry

just calls them fishing.

Wes

Sent from my iPad

> Well, obviously you survived without the helicopter, although I can't

> see how. You're a lucky, lucky man.

>

> Henry Barber wrote:

>>

>> Hey I resemble that remark. I almost knocked my self silly with a rake

>> when

>> I was a kid.

>>

>> Henry

>> Re: Helicopter EMS Re-Validated?

>>

>>> ... if you consider stepping on a rake as appropriate transport

>> criteria.

>>>

>>> On Jan 7, 2011 9:52 PM, " rob.davis@...

>> " ; <

>>> rob.davis@...

>> >; wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Interesting article, but haven't we already been through this?

>>>

>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110105102723.htm

>>>

>>> " Severely injured patients transported by helicopter from the scene

>> of an

>>> accident are more likely to survive than patients brought to trauma

>>> centers

>>> by ground ambulance, according to a new study published in The

>> Journal of

>>> Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care. The study is the first to

>>> examine the role of helicopter transport on a national level and

>> includes

>>> the largest number of helicopter-transport patients in a single

>>> analysis... "

>>>

>>> My favourite quote:

>>>

>>> " " On the national level, it appears as though helicopters are being used

>>> appropriately to transport injured patients to trauma centers, " said

>> Mark

>>> Gestring, M.D., lead study author and director of the Kessler Trauma

>>> Center

>>> at the University of Rochester Medical Center... "

>>>

>>> Rob

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>