Re: Re: Questions Are For Doctors WAS: (unknown)

[Guest guest]

In response to:

" Unfortunately, some things such as " if they have a head, haul em " or " when in

doubt, fly 'em out " die very slowly. Mostly because of the attitude that says,

" we've always done it this way so it must be right " or " I can't question

anything, I'm not a doctor " . "

The reason that some of us still have this view is because some of us were flat

out told it, multiple times, by multiple people.

Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B

CPR Instructor

> Obviously, I worded that poorly. I did not mean to demean anyone. Most of the

vets that I worked with in EMS did not serve as medics in the military. That is

a trend I am glad to see changing. Most of these guys I see now are VERY

confident and excellent medics.

>

> Unfortunately, some got their training via ny and Roy and Drs. Pierce and

Honeycutt. (I joke that when I was a medic we got CE for watching Emergency! so

I wuz part of that group). I also love to pop the tops like ny in the

opening! I also feel knowing our past improves us, we just can't continue to

live there.

>

> Emergency! gave us long on scene times to " stabilize " everyone. MASH showed us

that helicopters save lives. Both have some place in medicine. The problem is

that it is a moving target.

>

> Who, fifteen or twenty years ago, would have believed we would be talking

about either getting a pulse back on scene and then transporting or stopping

efforts with CPR and leaving them on scene? I never would have said that would

be best back then.

>

> Unfortunately, some things such as " if they have a head, haul em " or " when in

doubt, fly 'em out " die very slowly. Mostly because of the attitude that says,

" we've always done it this way so it must be right " or " I can't question

anything, I'm not a doctor " .

>

> In Texas, I as a medical director bear the burden, but I want my people to

push me to read and expand too. Medicine evolves, so should EMS. That is really

the purpose of forums such as this. But for any growth to happen, we must know

where we came from, be willing to remove the things holding us back, and look in

a new direction, test the path and adjust.

>

> I apologize if I besmirched any vets. I truly appreciate your service.

Sometime, lets have a beer and swap stories.

>

>

> >

> > Dr. :

> >

> > as someone who came up through the ranks (NREMT-A 1976-1979, 1981-84,

> > 91B2-F (flight medic) 1980-3), and who worked with many VN combat medics,

and in

> > the MAST Program during its heyday (1980-83), I quite understand that mind

> > set. I was also part of a Division Clearing Company as a Field Surgeon

> > (CPT, MC, USAR) 1988-91, and was called up in support of Desert Storm,

> > backfilling at Darnall Army Hospital when the ground conflict was over in

100

> > hours.

> >

> > Most of the VN medics that I knew had worked in the field under combat

> > conditions and at the Battalion Aid station level or higher levels,

receiving

> > wounded. They understood the limitations of air, vehicular and foot

> > evacuation (and made sure to drum those lessons into our tender tails and

hard

> > heads!).

> >

> > While some of them might have considered that a Level III center wasn't

> > appropriate for a particular patient, I doubt that they would have painted

the

> > facility with that broad a brush...depending on the team working at the

> > facility.

> >

> > I also generally found the medics (both former military and pure civilian)

> > who were " medal conscious " were often *less* likely to call for

> > appropriate diversion to higher level of care, preferring to " shine " on

their own,

> > rather than calling for help.

> >

> > " A man has GOT to know his own Limitations! "

> >

> > ck

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 01/10/11 23:28:17 Central Standard Time,

> > phillipsdo@... writes:

> >

> > Just a thought, so probably not really related but...

> >

> > EMS started in the late 60s and early 70s. Many of our early paramedics

> > likely had service time in Korea and/or Vietnam. These were the first

> > conflicts to utilize helicopter evacuation. For these vets, a helicopter

meant

> > life for their buddies, even if they died they still didn't die in the bush!

> >

> > The TV show MASH portrayed the battalion aid surgeon as I'll trained,

> > overwhelmed, inept, and likely to die. Is this how the vet subconscience

sees a

> > level III or IV trauma center? " By God, if I let them go there they will

> > kill them or let them die! I've got to Evac them! They're counting on me. I

> > might get a medal "

> >

> > I'm sorry if this offends some. I am a vet also. I have worked with

> > several Vietnam vets. All (okay with one exception) were great medics.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >