Re: Self Defense for the Disabled

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I wrote this quite a while ago, but did not finish it. It was sitting

on my desktop, hidden behind open mailboxes... So I finished it now,

in case somebody should be interested...

Krav Maga is a perfect way of self defence for people with

disabilities. Being developed by the Israelian army so that even tiny

female agents in mini skirts should be able to defend their life and

also kill if necessary (without any obvious weapons), this form of

self defence sport, has become popular amongst many with physical

disabilities. Krav Maga means " contact combat " or something like

that, in hebrew. At the rare disease center we once got a surprise

visit from two Krav Maga instructors, as well as a 14 year old boy

with Osteogenesis Imperfecta (severly affected by it). He rarely went

out, and had a really tough time. He was being bullied very badly by

a gang of teenage boys living near him. But after starting Krav Maga,

nobody touches him or even tries to bully him in any way. Not because

he has kicked their butt, but because he has got great esteem and

knows very well that he can defend himself if necessary. The

personnell at the rare disease center could barely recognize him,

just because his attitude was so different... His mom came too, and

she was so happy, she had seen her son get totally transformed after

starting this sport. It was so fun to see him demonstrate, also a

lot of fun because this is the sport for all the dirty tricks you can

possibly think of. You use what you have, e.g. your wheelchair (power

chair foot rests are wonderful calf breakers, he-he), walker,

crutches, key chain, lipstick etc. etc.

We had 4 hours with them, and had a ball. Even a little old lady with

OI, who tried to sneak out of there because that certainly could not

be anything for her, less than 3' tall, with fragile bones and all.

But she ended up having a lot of fun too. Hildegunn who several of

you have met before, gave me her video camera to film her while she

had a try. You see her nicely through the routine, but then you hear

loud noises and all you can see is the floor, the ceiling, the walls

- it was all over the place. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of

my chair - and lost totally track of the camera in the process.

Because Hildegunn didn't just give it a try, when he said " give it

all you've got " , she did. She knocked him to the floor and he was

laying there, totally seeing stars for a while. He really almost

fainted, maybe he was even gone for a couple of seconds... LOL She

almost knocked him out completely. He was dizzy and feeling unwell

for quite a while, but he had a big smile on his face, thought it was

so fun... Because of the way this sport it, you take your abilities

and adapt the sport to them and use what you have there at the time,

it is perfect for people like us. The club that visited us, trains in

the park outside the Royal Palace in Oslo, because that way they can

keep the costs down, no gym to rent or anything. They are having a

lot of success though, and I am sure that new clubs will pop up all

over the country eventually. Right now there are 5, so three new

ones have been started since we met them...

It was actually so fun that if there had been a club where I live, I

would have joined them back then. Some of the people that lived one

of the two places they had clubs then, did join Krav Maga afterwards,

because we just had so much fun and learned so much during the short

hours, it was really encouraging even if what we learned was nothing

but a little taste of what it can be. The instructors thought it was

so fun that it was so suitable also for people with handicaps,

because their club had all kinds of people as members, and they all

had such a great time together. And as instructors it made it much

more exciting for them, it was not the same thing all the time, they

always had to be creative in finding new ways of doing things. It was

really amazing how much you can use a wheelchair for, be it a manual

or a power one. The instructor really loved my trick that I had up my

sleeve when I had a go. He told me to just do something, but never

expected that I would suddenly lift my legs and push forwards really

fast, hitting him in the tummy knocking him off his feet... He-he,

that was fun!!! The more rough we managed to be, the more applause we

got. She was one of the first to start with it here in Norway, and

she has specialized in courses for people with disabilities. Her " day

job " is really being an author, but...

Here they got quite a lot of media time, because this is so unusual

and different... One of the people they had trained had also been

really isolated. I think she was paralyzed after an accident, then

she had a really scary experience when a guy attacked her and tried

to rape her. Then she started Krav Maga, and found that using

something to punch with, was her thing. So she had applied to the

Police (as you do if you want a license to carry a gun) to be allowed

to carry a Totenschlager for her own safety. It is not easy to get a

license to own a weapon at all here, after all even the Police does

not carry guns... But she was granted the license. A Totenschlager

(means a " deadhitter " ) is really a horrible weapon, the Nazi's used

these a lot during WW2. It is a telescopic metal " bat " , with a metal

edge/cap at the end. When you strike it against somebody, the 2/3

which are hidden, comes out of the tip of the thing. Scary... But for

her it has allowed her to get out of the house again, knowing that

she can defend herself if she needs to.

If you want to read about Krav Maga, here's an American site:

http://www.kravmaga.com/

Krav Maga Norway:

http://www.kravmaga.no/

From this site:

learns Krav Maga in her new film " Enough "

Working class waitress Slim ( ) finds her life

transformed when she marries wealthy contractor Mitch (

). She settles into an idyllic suburban life and seems to

have everything she wants: loving husband, beautiful home, and

Gracie, an adorable 5-year-old daughter. Her dream is shattered when

she discovers her husband is anything but perfect. His abusive

behavior forces her to go on the run, eluding an increasingly

obsessive Mitch and his lethal henchmen. When, despite Slim's efforts

to make a new life, Mitch finds her and threatens her again, she puts

Gracie in safe keeping, toughens herself mentally and physically and

sets out to prove to Mitch she's had Enough.

Piece of an article from the website for the Disabled Athletes

Association/Norwegian Martial Arts Association (translated):

Adapting the techniques to the disability:

She met well prepared when it all started, because she had actually

already got an instructors's license from Krav Maga, in order to put

special focus on simple self defence. Normally she teaches tae kwon

do, but she also has experience with both Judo and Karate.

- I thought that focus on self defence had to be good. I wanted that

they would learn something during a short period of time, at the same

time as I wanted to give them the feeling of being able to achieve.

We have now decided to put together a 20 hour course, which will work

as a way into another martial art. During these hours we will get to

know them well enough to see which limitations and possibilities the

individual disability presents. Several of us have experience with

different martial arts, so we will see what is best suitable for the

different individuals in the long run. We are talking extremely

individual possibilities and needs. For that reason Krav Maga is just

perfect, because you can adapt the techniques from a standing to a

sitting position, and there are simple principles where everything is

built up from a basic technique. If you learn that one technique, you

can modify it to the disability by a wheelchair user e.g. choose to

direct a punch to the crotch area instead of the nose, explains

Blomquist.

(I can add that this must have been written a long time ago. There

are now groups, and lots of people training Krav Maga, people with

different disabilities...)

Aase Marit

>

>Self Defense for the Disabled

> http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?storyid=8796

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I wrote this quite a while ago, but did not finish it. It was sitting

on my desktop, hidden behind open mailboxes... So I finished it now,

in case somebody should be interested...

Krav Maga is a perfect way of self defence for people with

disabilities. Being developed by the Israelian army so that even tiny

female agents in mini skirts should be able to defend their life and

also kill if necessary (without any obvious weapons), this form of

self defence sport, has become popular amongst many with physical

disabilities. Krav Maga means " contact combat " or something like

that, in hebrew. At the rare disease center we once got a surprise

visit from two Krav Maga instructors, as well as a 14 year old boy

with Osteogenesis Imperfecta (severly affected by it). He rarely went

out, and had a really tough time. He was being bullied very badly by

a gang of teenage boys living near him. But after starting Krav Maga,

nobody touches him or even tries to bully him in any way. Not because

he has kicked their butt, but because he has got great esteem and

knows very well that he can defend himself if necessary. The

personnell at the rare disease center could barely recognize him,

just because his attitude was so different... His mom came too, and

she was so happy, she had seen her son get totally transformed after

starting this sport. It was so fun to see him demonstrate, also a

lot of fun because this is the sport for all the dirty tricks you can

possibly think of. You use what you have, e.g. your wheelchair (power

chair foot rests are wonderful calf breakers, he-he), walker,

crutches, key chain, lipstick etc. etc.

We had 4 hours with them, and had a ball. Even a little old lady with

OI, who tried to sneak out of there because that certainly could not

be anything for her, less than 3' tall, with fragile bones and all.

But she ended up having a lot of fun too. Hildegunn who several of

you have met before, gave me her video camera to film her while she

had a try. You see her nicely through the routine, but then you hear

loud noises and all you can see is the floor, the ceiling, the walls

- it was all over the place. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of

my chair - and lost totally track of the camera in the process.

Because Hildegunn didn't just give it a try, when he said " give it

all you've got " , she did. She knocked him to the floor and he was

laying there, totally seeing stars for a while. He really almost

fainted, maybe he was even gone for a couple of seconds... LOL She

almost knocked him out completely. He was dizzy and feeling unwell

for quite a while, but he had a big smile on his face, thought it was

so fun... Because of the way this sport it, you take your abilities

and adapt the sport to them and use what you have there at the time,

it is perfect for people like us. The club that visited us, trains in

the park outside the Royal Palace in Oslo, because that way they can

keep the costs down, no gym to rent or anything. They are having a

lot of success though, and I am sure that new clubs will pop up all

over the country eventually. Right now there are 5, so three new

ones have been started since we met them...

It was actually so fun that if there had been a club where I live, I

would have joined them back then. Some of the people that lived one

of the two places they had clubs then, did join Krav Maga afterwards,

because we just had so much fun and learned so much during the short

hours, it was really encouraging even if what we learned was nothing

but a little taste of what it can be. The instructors thought it was

so fun that it was so suitable also for people with handicaps,

because their club had all kinds of people as members, and they all

had such a great time together. And as instructors it made it much

more exciting for them, it was not the same thing all the time, they

always had to be creative in finding new ways of doing things. It was

really amazing how much you can use a wheelchair for, be it a manual

or a power one. The instructor really loved my trick that I had up my

sleeve when I had a go. He told me to just do something, but never

expected that I would suddenly lift my legs and push forwards really

fast, hitting him in the tummy knocking him off his feet... He-he,

that was fun!!! The more rough we managed to be, the more applause we

got. She was one of the first to start with it here in Norway, and

she has specialized in courses for people with disabilities. Her " day

job " is really being an author, but...

Here they got quite a lot of media time, because this is so unusual

and different... One of the people they had trained had also been

really isolated. I think she was paralyzed after an accident, then

she had a really scary experience when a guy attacked her and tried

to rape her. Then she started Krav Maga, and found that using

something to punch with, was her thing. So she had applied to the

Police (as you do if you want a license to carry a gun) to be allowed

to carry a Totenschlager for her own safety. It is not easy to get a

license to own a weapon at all here, after all even the Police does

not carry guns... But she was granted the license. A Totenschlager

(means a " deadhitter " ) is really a horrible weapon, the Nazi's used

these a lot during WW2. It is a telescopic metal " bat " , with a metal

edge/cap at the end. When you strike it against somebody, the 2/3

which are hidden, comes out of the tip of the thing. Scary... But for

her it has allowed her to get out of the house again, knowing that

she can defend herself if she needs to.

If you want to read about Krav Maga, here's an American site:

http://www.kravmaga.com/

Krav Maga Norway:

http://www.kravmaga.no/

From this site:

learns Krav Maga in her new film " Enough "

Working class waitress Slim ( ) finds her life

transformed when she marries wealthy contractor Mitch (

). She settles into an idyllic suburban life and seems to

have everything she wants: loving husband, beautiful home, and

Gracie, an adorable 5-year-old daughter. Her dream is shattered when

she discovers her husband is anything but perfect. His abusive

behavior forces her to go on the run, eluding an increasingly

obsessive Mitch and his lethal henchmen. When, despite Slim's efforts

to make a new life, Mitch finds her and threatens her again, she puts

Gracie in safe keeping, toughens herself mentally and physically and

sets out to prove to Mitch she's had Enough.

Piece of an article from the website for the Disabled Athletes

Association/Norwegian Martial Arts Association (translated):

Adapting the techniques to the disability:

She met well prepared when it all started, because she had actually

already got an instructors's license from Krav Maga, in order to put

special focus on simple self defence. Normally she teaches tae kwon

do, but she also has experience with both Judo and Karate.

- I thought that focus on self defence had to be good. I wanted that

they would learn something during a short period of time, at the same

time as I wanted to give them the feeling of being able to achieve.

We have now decided to put together a 20 hour course, which will work

as a way into another martial art. During these hours we will get to

know them well enough to see which limitations and possibilities the

individual disability presents. Several of us have experience with

different martial arts, so we will see what is best suitable for the

different individuals in the long run. We are talking extremely

individual possibilities and needs. For that reason Krav Maga is just

perfect, because you can adapt the techniques from a standing to a

sitting position, and there are simple principles where everything is

built up from a basic technique. If you learn that one technique, you

can modify it to the disability by a wheelchair user e.g. choose to

direct a punch to the crotch area instead of the nose, explains

Blomquist.

(I can add that this must have been written a long time ago. There

are now groups, and lots of people training Krav Maga, people with

different disabilities...)

Aase Marit

>

>Self Defense for the Disabled

> http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?storyid=8796

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I wrote this quite a while ago, but did not finish it. It was sitting

on my desktop, hidden behind open mailboxes... So I finished it now,

in case somebody should be interested...

Krav Maga is a perfect way of self defence for people with

disabilities. Being developed by the Israelian army so that even tiny

female agents in mini skirts should be able to defend their life and

also kill if necessary (without any obvious weapons), this form of

self defence sport, has become popular amongst many with physical

disabilities. Krav Maga means " contact combat " or something like

that, in hebrew. At the rare disease center we once got a surprise

visit from two Krav Maga instructors, as well as a 14 year old boy

with Osteogenesis Imperfecta (severly affected by it). He rarely went

out, and had a really tough time. He was being bullied very badly by

a gang of teenage boys living near him. But after starting Krav Maga,

nobody touches him or even tries to bully him in any way. Not because

he has kicked their butt, but because he has got great esteem and

knows very well that he can defend himself if necessary. The

personnell at the rare disease center could barely recognize him,

just because his attitude was so different... His mom came too, and

she was so happy, she had seen her son get totally transformed after

starting this sport. It was so fun to see him demonstrate, also a

lot of fun because this is the sport for all the dirty tricks you can

possibly think of. You use what you have, e.g. your wheelchair (power

chair foot rests are wonderful calf breakers, he-he), walker,

crutches, key chain, lipstick etc. etc.

We had 4 hours with them, and had a ball. Even a little old lady with

OI, who tried to sneak out of there because that certainly could not

be anything for her, less than 3' tall, with fragile bones and all.

But she ended up having a lot of fun too. Hildegunn who several of

you have met before, gave me her video camera to film her while she

had a try. You see her nicely through the routine, but then you hear

loud noises and all you can see is the floor, the ceiling, the walls

- it was all over the place. I laughed so hard I almost fell out of

my chair - and lost totally track of the camera in the process.

Because Hildegunn didn't just give it a try, when he said " give it

all you've got " , she did. She knocked him to the floor and he was

laying there, totally seeing stars for a while. He really almost

fainted, maybe he was even gone for a couple of seconds... LOL She

almost knocked him out completely. He was dizzy and feeling unwell

for quite a while, but he had a big smile on his face, thought it was

so fun... Because of the way this sport it, you take your abilities

and adapt the sport to them and use what you have there at the time,

it is perfect for people like us. The club that visited us, trains in

the park outside the Royal Palace in Oslo, because that way they can

keep the costs down, no gym to rent or anything. They are having a

lot of success though, and I am sure that new clubs will pop up all

over the country eventually. Right now there are 5, so three new

ones have been started since we met them...

It was actually so fun that if there had been a club where I live, I

would have joined them back then. Some of the people that lived one

of the two places they had clubs then, did join Krav Maga afterwards,

because we just had so much fun and learned so much during the short

hours, it was really encouraging even if what we learned was nothing

but a little taste of what it can be. The instructors thought it was

so fun that it was so suitable also for people with handicaps,

because their club had all kinds of people as members, and they all

had such a great time together. And as instructors it made it much

more exciting for them, it was not the same thing all the time, they

always had to be creative in finding new ways of doing things. It was

really amazing how much you can use a wheelchair for, be it a manual

or a power one. The instructor really loved my trick that I had up my

sleeve when I had a go. He told me to just do something, but never

expected that I would suddenly lift my legs and push forwards really

fast, hitting him in the tummy knocking him off his feet... He-he,

that was fun!!! The more rough we managed to be, the more applause we

got. She was one of the first to start with it here in Norway, and

she has specialized in courses for people with disabilities. Her " day

job " is really being an author, but...

Here they got quite a lot of media time, because this is so unusual

and different... One of the people they had trained had also been

really isolated. I think she was paralyzed after an accident, then

she had a really scary experience when a guy attacked her and tried

to rape her. Then she started Krav Maga, and found that using

something to punch with, was her thing. So she had applied to the

Police (as you do if you want a license to carry a gun) to be allowed

to carry a Totenschlager for her own safety. It is not easy to get a

license to own a weapon at all here, after all even the Police does

not carry guns... But she was granted the license. A Totenschlager

(means a " deadhitter " ) is really a horrible weapon, the Nazi's used

these a lot during WW2. It is a telescopic metal " bat " , with a metal

edge/cap at the end. When you strike it against somebody, the 2/3

which are hidden, comes out of the tip of the thing. Scary... But for

her it has allowed her to get out of the house again, knowing that

she can defend herself if she needs to.

If you want to read about Krav Maga, here's an American site:

http://www.kravmaga.com/

Krav Maga Norway:

http://www.kravmaga.no/

From this site:

learns Krav Maga in her new film " Enough "

Working class waitress Slim ( ) finds her life

transformed when she marries wealthy contractor Mitch (

). She settles into an idyllic suburban life and seems to

have everything she wants: loving husband, beautiful home, and

Gracie, an adorable 5-year-old daughter. Her dream is shattered when

she discovers her husband is anything but perfect. His abusive

behavior forces her to go on the run, eluding an increasingly

obsessive Mitch and his lethal henchmen. When, despite Slim's efforts

to make a new life, Mitch finds her and threatens her again, she puts

Gracie in safe keeping, toughens herself mentally and physically and

sets out to prove to Mitch she's had Enough.

Piece of an article from the website for the Disabled Athletes

Association/Norwegian Martial Arts Association (translated):

Adapting the techniques to the disability:

She met well prepared when it all started, because she had actually

already got an instructors's license from Krav Maga, in order to put

special focus on simple self defence. Normally she teaches tae kwon

do, but she also has experience with both Judo and Karate.

- I thought that focus on self defence had to be good. I wanted that

they would learn something during a short period of time, at the same

time as I wanted to give them the feeling of being able to achieve.

We have now decided to put together a 20 hour course, which will work

as a way into another martial art. During these hours we will get to

know them well enough to see which limitations and possibilities the

individual disability presents. Several of us have experience with

different martial arts, so we will see what is best suitable for the

different individuals in the long run. We are talking extremely

individual possibilities and needs. For that reason Krav Maga is just

perfect, because you can adapt the techniques from a standing to a

sitting position, and there are simple principles where everything is

built up from a basic technique. If you learn that one technique, you

can modify it to the disability by a wheelchair user e.g. choose to

direct a punch to the crotch area instead of the nose, explains

Blomquist.

(I can add that this must have been written a long time ago. There

are now groups, and lots of people training Krav Maga, people with

different disabilities...)

Aase Marit

>

>Self Defense for the Disabled

> http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?storyid=8796

>

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU!

As you know, I have long had an interest in self-defense and personal safety

for women and PWDs. I checked the USA website and found the class location

for Seattle. I was about a block away last night! With the MBA classes, I

don't have time to do this right now, but I think I'll check into it for me

and another friend of mine who may be interested too.

-Barb

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU!

As you know, I have long had an interest in self-defense and personal safety

for women and PWDs. I checked the USA website and found the class location

for Seattle. I was about a block away last night! With the MBA classes, I

don't have time to do this right now, but I think I'll check into it for me

and another friend of mine who may be interested too.

-Barb

[Guest guest]

Hi Aase,

This was WONDERFUL! I had no idea that a couple locations near me

teach this. I'm not in a wheelchair, but if I ever end up in one,

I'm going to go. I wonder if they would let me come and try to

become an instructor BEFORE I need it! I may try to give them a call

soon. Since I'm a 3rd degree BB instructor now, I wouldn't think it

would be too difficult for me to learn and become an instructor in

this!

I do so appreciate all the unique things you post, Aase! You are my

type of gal!

Love Lana

> Krav Maga is a perfect way of self defence for people with

> disabilities.

[Guest guest]

Aase, I forgot to tell you, that one of the instructors I teach with

will be testing in a year or so for his 5th degree. When he does, he

will be doing half of his form the normal way and the other half

using a cane. I've seen him do it, and it looks pretty lethal, let

me tell you!

Love Lana

[Guest guest]

Damn! You really are a mean little kid !

A couple of comments.

Your (or anybody else's) FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE is awareness. Most

victims are victims because they look like victims. Awareness of

your surroundings becomes even more important if you also happen to

have a physical disadvantage, whether that disadvantage is simply

being smaller sized or disabled.

Also make no mistake about the fact that you " project " self

confidence just as well as fear. And this is why the kid stopped

getting bullied. Predators, be they four-legged or two-legged,

sense that and act accordingly.

Remind me not to irritate you if you are facing me in your

wheelchair.

Totenschlager? I didn't realize that these particular devices were

that old. Over here they are called " tactical batons. " My personal

favorite (and the one I happen to keep on the floor in my car

between the driver's seat and the door) is made by ASP. It is a

combination of baton on the one end and a very powerful flashlight

on the other. It doesn't look so intimidating with the flashlight

attachment. On the other hand, the flashlight part also adds a few

extra inches in length - which increases your ability to " reach out

and touch someone " should the need arise. I also have another one

without the flashlight and it is very handy for just sticking in my

pocket.

In the States, ability to own, possess, or carry one depends

entirely on your particular state of residence. Alaska has no

restrictions (although most reputable dealers exercise self

restraint on sales - if you look like a punk, you don't get to buy

one, legal or not). Some other states strictly limit sales to law

enforcement or licensed security personnel. I don't know current law

in California, but it used to be illegal down there. In fact, it

was considered a felony concealed weapon if they caught you with

one.

I happen to personally think they are great self defense tools but

not for everyone by any means. And you most definitely need to be

aware of the laws involving concealed weapons and the use of deadly

force in your particular area before you even consider getting one.

I can't stress this last point enough. It doesn't take a

particularly hard strike with one of them to break someone's arm or

leg - or cause a fatality with a head hit. They should be treated

with every bit the same respect and caution in their carry and use

as a firearm. If you ever have to use one, its use will be viewed in

court in EXACTLY the same manner as if you shot someone.

My personal " line of defense " and what I recommend anytime I do any

advising on the subject is:

(1) Awareness

(2) Cell Phone

(3) Pepper Spray

(4) Tactical Baton

(5) Firearm (and then only with proper training).

[Guest guest]

----------

It wasn't Darlene. I didn't realize that she had signed me off of

the computer and logged on herself.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I checked the USA website and found the class location for Seattle.

I was about a block away last night! With the MBA classes, I don't

have time to do this right now, but I think I'll check into it for me

and another friend of mine who may be interested too.

>

> -Barb

-----------------

I obviously can't do anything with it for a few months either, but

let me know what you do find out about it when you check for more

details.

If Aase can have so much fun with it, sounds like it might be worth

taking.

[Guest guest]

He-he... Sorry Darlene, I obviously meant MIKE...

Aase Marit

[Guest guest]

Hi Darlene,

Yup, you are soooo right!!! Awareness, posture, body language etc.

was the first things they addressed. If you look like a possible

victim, you sure ask for it if the wrong people are around -

especially if you look vulnerable, e.g. because of a wheelchair.

Also they wanted us to train on screaming, like " NO " etc., but soon

discovered that none of us needed training in that, we all could do

it very well as it was, I guess probably because all of us are in

pain a lot, and have learned how to breathe properly. We had a lot of

fun yelling later though, scaring the heck out of people, he-he... I

can demonstrate when we meet, LOL... A little while ago I had trouble

getting my wheelchair up to the gate at the airport, and a stewardess

tried yelling to the guy handling it on the ground, out of the other

plane door. A really " girlish " yell, from the throat. Of course he

did not hear a thing, and she told me there was no way we could get

hold of it. I told her to move, and yelled to him, of course he heard

me. The stewardess looked shocked, LOL...

I could not agree with you more, it is a potentially very harmful

weapon. At the same time, it can be of vital help for people with

disabilities to carry if you have to move around in places where you

can risk getting in really bad trouble. But using one is certainly

something you just would do if you felt your life was in danger.

Because you could kill somebody if you strike against the head/face,

no doubt about it (hence the German name). Here in Norway it would be

considered a felony if you get caught carrying one and don't have a

permit, I am sure. If I was living in Oslo, and often had the need

to be out late etc., I would sure have considered applying for a

permit. Safety is not much of a concern here though, but of course -

you never know. But I do know that people with disabilities does end

up as victims of crime more and more often around the world, and I am

sure it will get worse here too. The baton you mention that you can

put in your pocket, sounds like it can be a useful weapon for

disabled people in need of some means of defending themselves!!! I

looked up the flashlight one you have on the web too, looks really

great!!! http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/batons/triad.php

The things we were showed, had been confiscated by the Police, and

the instructor's had borrowed them. Yes, they are that old, the

Nazi's killed a lot of people using them, heavy iron ones... The

instructor's had one with them, and the tip was much wider and

sharper, so it could obviously do a lot of damage... Quite scary...

Here we can actually not even buy pepper spray... Only the Police has

it (and criminals too, I am sure), as it is considered to be very

harmful to the eyes (a Policeman actually ended up in hospital with

bad damage to his eyes after a training session)...

One little thing to add to your list of things you can use to defend

yourself, is also something as simple as a small bottle of good old

fashioned Elnett hair spray - sure not nice to get in your eyes

either, and very easy to carry in your purse/pocket... But it does

not give you all that much time, I guess, so it would not be good in

any situation.

The best weapon for a person in a power wheelchair, is no doubt the

chair!!! Having a solid metal footrest is really great, that's some

calf breaker... Just drive full force forward, and break the person's

legs. In a situation where you feel that your life really is at

stake, or somebody tries to e.g. rape you - and you feel you have no

other options... Then that is a good thing to do...

But you really should have seen Hildegunn... I laughed so hard it

hurt... Oh my gosh, that was quite a moment... LOL... Amazing that

somebody can be that happy to be hurt, but that instructor was so

happy the rest of the day...

Tee-hee... Good that I am a good girl, right?

Aase Marit

>Damn! You really are a mean little kid !

>

>A couple of comments.

>

>Your (or anybody else's) FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE is awareness. Most

>victims are victims because they look like victims. Awareness of

>your surroundings becomes even more important if you also happen to

>have a physical disadvantage, whether that disadvantage is simply

>being smaller sized or disabled.

>

>Also make no mistake about the fact that you " project " self

>confidence just as well as fear. And this is why the kid stopped

>getting bullied. Predators, be they four-legged or two-legged,

>sense that and act accordingly.

>

>Remind me not to irritate you if you are facing me in your

>wheelchair.

>

>Totenschlager? I didn't realize that these particular devices were

>that old. Over here they are called " tactical batons. " My personal

>favorite (and the one I happen to keep on the floor in my car

>between the driver's seat and the door) is made by ASP. It is a

>combination of baton on the one end and a very powerful flashlight

>on the other. It doesn't look so intimidating with the flashlight

>attachment. On the other hand, the flashlight part also adds a few

>extra inches in length - which increases your ability to " reach out

>and touch someone " should the need arise. I also have another one

>without the flashlight and it is very handy for just sticking in my

>pocket.

>

>In the States, ability to own, possess, or carry one depends

>entirely on your particular state of residence. Alaska has no

>restrictions (although most reputable dealers exercise self

>restraint on sales - if you look like a punk, you don't get to buy

>one, legal or not). Some other states strictly limit sales to law

>enforcement or licensed security personnel. I don't know current law

>in California, but it used to be illegal down there. In fact, it

>was considered a felony concealed weapon if they caught you with

>one.

>

>I happen to personally think they are great self defense tools but

>not for everyone by any means. And you most definitely need to be

>aware of the laws involving concealed weapons and the use of deadly

>force in your particular area before you even consider getting one.

>I can't stress this last point enough. It doesn't take a

>particularly hard strike with one of them to break someone's arm or

>leg - or cause a fatality with a head hit. They should be treated

>with every bit the same respect and caution in their carry and use

>as a firearm. If you ever have to use one, its use will be viewed in

>court in EXACTLY the same manner as if you shot someone.

>

>My personal " line of defense " and what I recommend anytime I do any

>advising on the subject is:

>

>(1) Awareness

>(2) Cell Phone

>(3) Pepper Spray

>(4) Tactical Baton

>(5) Firearm (and then only with proper training).

>

>

>

>

>To learn more about EDS, visit our website: http://www.ehlersdanlos.ca

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

How neat!!! It will be really interesting to hear what they say. If

they haven't done this kind of work much before (I can't remember now

if the site said anything about that), show them my posting. They

could always try to contact Lise Blomquist too, if they are

interested in more input, since she has a lot of experience. I am

sure that it should be possible to locate an e-mail address for her,

I could always try to find her phone number and give her a call...

It was really, really fun!!!! I really liked the so much creative

part of it all too, that you try to use what you have etc. And it was

amazing how they had developed easy techniques for defending yourself

sitting in your wheelchair, be it a manual or a power one. It was

really easy to knock someone off their feet etc. But I am not sure if

I remember all now, of course the little intro we got, was just a

tiny bit, you would need to train and learn more to become good at it.

Good luck... Tell me how it goes!!!

Aase Marit

>THANK YOU!

>

>As you know, I have long had an interest in self-defense and personal safety

>for women and PWDs. I checked the USA website and found the class location

>for Seattle. I was about a block away last night! With the MBA classes, I

>don't have time to do this right now, but I think I'll check into it for me

>and another friend of mine who may be interested too.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lana,

It is really great for everybody, wheelchair or not. With EDS you

certainly need other ways of defending yourself, since most of us

aren't exactly that fit and strong. So Krav Maga is perfect also

then. They also use crutches, walkers etc. and use those as weapons.

I am sure they would have some creative idea's about things like

braces too. Or whatever it is you have.

Yes, I am sure they would let you come and become an instructor. Why

don't you contact them and go and have a talk with them? You don't

need to be a wheelchair user at all. This is not a self defence form

that are just for certain types of people, that is the beauty of it,

it is for everybody, no matter who you are and what shape you are in.

You adapt your techniques to your abilities.

So nice that you liked that I posted about it!!!

Ooooh, I can't wait... I have butterflies in my tummy!!!! This time

in two weeks, I am on the plane from NYC to Buffalo!!!!

Aase Marit

>Hi Aase,

>

>This was WONDERFUL! I had no idea that a couple locations near me

>teach this. I'm not in a wheelchair, but if I ever end up in one,

>I'm going to go. I wonder if they would let me come and try to

>become an instructor BEFORE I need it! I may try to give them a call

>soon. Since I'm a 3rd degree BB instructor now, I wouldn't think it

>would be too difficult for me to learn and become an instructor in

>this!

>

>I do so appreciate all the unique things you post, Aase! You are my

>type of gal!

>

>Love Lana

>

>

>

>> Krav Maga is a perfect way of self defence for people with

>> disabilities.

>

>

>

>

>To learn more about EDS, visit our website: http://www.ehlersdanlos.ca

>

[Guest guest]

I can imagine!!! Really neat!!!! Maybe he would be interested in

Krav Maga too?????

Aase Marit

>Aase, I forgot to tell you, that one of the instructors I teach with

>will be testing in a year or so for his 5th degree. When he does, he

>will be doing half of his form the normal way and the other half

>using a cane. I've seen him do it, and it looks pretty lethal, let

>me tell you!

[Guest guest]

I can imagine!!! Really neat!!!! Maybe he would be interested in

Krav Maga too?????

Aase Marit

>Aase, I forgot to tell you, that one of the instructors I teach with

>will be testing in a year or so for his 5th degree. When he does, he

>will be doing half of his form the normal way and the other half

>using a cane. I've seen him do it, and it looks pretty lethal, let

>me tell you!

[Guest guest]

Hi again Mike,

I can add that they at the rare disease center always have some

surprises up their sleeve when they have group stays for patients

(they have 7 diagnostic groups on their list, EDS, Marfan's, OI,

Arthrogryphosis Multiplex Congenita (AMC), " Dwarfism with bone

dysplasia's " (don't know what you call it, we sure don't use the word

" dwarfism " anymore, not PC), Spina Bifida and Dysmelia). It can be

things like a special concert by celebs that come there, a theater

group coming, a drummer coming with like 50 drums putting a drum

orchestra together with everybody participating etc. A lot of really

fun and different things. But this one with self defence/Krav Maga

was without doubt the most popular thing they had ever thought of.

Everybody was excited for days, I tell you... And had a lot of fun

yelling, screaming and laughing. I tell you, this center is part of a

large rehab hospital, the others there must have wondered what was

going on with this group, that is for sure!!! People standing outside

the ward afterwards, screaming things like " Don't Fuck with Me!!!! " ,

" Don't You Touch Me " , " No!!!!! " etc., and laughing their heads off...

It was no doubt a blast... I have thought of it later, that this

could have been something really perfect for an EDNF conference... If

they found the right instructors etc. Somebody really positive,

oriented towards finding every person's and group's strengths etc. in

a very nice and positive way (not some instructor full of himself,

bragging type, if you know what I mean - I really don't think that is

a good idea for this)...

Might be something great for you to look into... And then I am

thinking " in a wider sense " , also regarding your other work...

Because there is no doubt that doing this can have impact on a lot of

other sides of life and coping with a chronic disorder like EDS...

Don't you think?

Aase Marit

>I obviously can't do anything with it for a few months either, but

>let me know what you do find out about it when you check for more

>details.

>

>If Aase can have so much fun with it, sounds like it might be worth

>taking.

[Guest guest]

Here we can actually not even buy pepper spray... Only the Police

has it (and criminals too, I am sure), as it is considered to be

very harmful to the eyes (a Policeman actually ended up in hospital

with bad damage to his eyes after a training session)...

One little thing to add to your list of things you can use to defend

yourself...

---------------------

I would be very curious/interested in any documentation about the

eye injury from pepper spray because that is contrary to everything

I have ever heard about it. I can understand/accept that it did

happen in an isolated instance but do not accept/agree that it

is " very harmful to the eyes " in general. One of the very strong

plusses about pepper spray is that it does NOT cause permanent

injury. And, yes, I am VERY familiar with the stuff. Over the years

I have literally given cases of the stuff away as gifts and have

personally carried it myself for at least 20 years.

One little thing? There are lots of little things. You mentioned

hair spray. Any small bottle/can of aerosol product would work just

as well. As well as pepper spray? No. But it would at least serve

as a distraction while you threw your power chair into overdrive and

got the hell out of the area, while yelling at the top of your

lungs. With five vehicles around here, plus house and other keys, my

key ring has over a dozen keys on it. I have it set up on multiple

split rings with swivels. One of the rings has a small ASP pepper

spray on it that actually looks like a two cell AAA flashlight at

first glance. With that in my hand, I could either use the spray

itself as spray or as a handle to use the keys as a flail. I also

always carry two ballpoint pens in my shirt pocket. If you know what

you are doing (and I do), pens can become very effective striking

weapons.

Speaking of yelling, another excellent tool to carry is a GOOD

whistle. I always carried one when we lived in Alaska because of the

potential for earthquakes. The primary purpose was for getting help

or attracting attention if ever trapped in a building. It would

work equally well for that if being attacked and trying to flee. Of

course, when we lived in Alaska, I used to carry a LOT of stuff for

the same reason that I don't normally walk around with in Seattle. I

used to carry the small baton on me for the same reason. I didn't

carry it as a self defense tool, I carried it as part of my

emergency supplies equipment. Having it available as a self defense

device was just a bonus. I also always carried a good lock-back, one

hand opening, folding knife with a belt clip in my right rear

pocket. This was also just a tool for me. That it could be used as

a weapon was also just a bonus.

In both cases (baton and knife), they gave me a lesser level of

lethality if the need ever arose before having to resort to the

heavy stuff. And, yes, I also carried the heavy stuff. I got my

first carry permit over 40 years ago, have been licensed to carry in

Oregon, Washington and Alaska, and in fact did carry for better than

half of my adult life. The periods when I generally did not were

those times when we lived in California. I have been fortunate to

live in jurisdictions that for the most part do not treat the

average citizen like a criminal (California excepted).

All of this is fine when at home. Travel throws a whole new twist

to things, especially post 9-11. It used to be perfectly legal to

carry a small pocket knife on a plane as long as the cutting edge of

the blade was no longer than three inches and the blade was not

serrated. No more. It also used to be illegal to carry pepper spray

on a plane, even in checked luggage. That was changed a few years

back at the insistence of flight crews.

Travel issues include not only what is legal to transport (and how),

but also knowing what is legal to possess or carry at your

destination. And a very critical aspect of this is whether

the " offense " is considered a discretionary or mandatory bust. Using

vehicle laws as an example, if you get caught going 70 in a 65 zone,

the officer has enormous discretion. He can ignore it, as in not

even stopping you. He can stop you and give you a verbal warning by

just telling you to keep your speed down. He can give you a written

warning that does not involve a fine, or he can give you a ticket

that has a fine attached. In other words, the involved officer has

enormous discretion about what action he or she chooses to take.

Blast through a 25 mph school zone doing 90 when there are kids

waiting to cross, however, and the offense is no longer considered

discretionary. It now becomes a mandatory situation. The involved

officer has no choice. You will be arrested. Your car will be

impounded. And you are going to take a handcuffed ride in his back

seat to the nearest precinct house.

The same principle applies where defensive weapons are concerned,

but with a bit of an added twist. Get stopped in New York City with

a loaded .38 in your pocket and you are going to get arrested. In

jurisdictions where the offense is classed as a misdemeanor, the

officer has discretion. (If it is a felony, the bust is mandatory.)

So, let's say you are someplace where there is some discretion.

Now, let's first assume that you are a young, shapely, attractive

female and the involved officer is a father with a couple of teenage

daughters. How do you think that officer is going to react in your

situation versus the same officer stopping an obvious gang-banger?

He is going to bust the gang-banger, get " the weapon " (whatever it

is) off the street, and take advantage of the opportunity to ruin

the gang-banger's day. In the case of the young lady, he might

instead give her some additional pointers on how she can best

protect herself and send her on her way with a " have a nice day. "

When we first moved down from Alaska, I got stopped twice (once for

a cracked windshield and the other for a defective tail light).

Both cases involved two officers in the vehicle. Both cases also

involved my having in my possession two guns (both set up with

Crimson Trace Laser Grips), an ASP tactical baton, a top of the line

lock-back knife, and pepper spray. I immediately told the involved

officers that I was licensed to carry and was in fact carrying.

They then proceeded to follow standard procedure and secured all

obvious weapons while we discussed my infraction of the vehicle

code. Their reaction as to the weapons I had on me? In both cases,

one cop says to the other " He's got better gear than we do! " And in

one of the cases, one of the cops said " I wish more of the good guys

were like you. We can't always be where we are needed, when we are

needed, and people need to take responsibility for their own safety. "

And taking responsibility for your own safety where self defense is

involved covers a whole raft of issues. It goes well beyond just

taking a class and/or choosing to carry some kind of self defense

device, whether that device is pepper spray, a baton, a firearm or a

ball point pen. It makes no difference whether your " weapon of

choice " is an obvious weapon or an improvised weapon (like hair

spray). The issue is why you were carrying it in the first place,

what your intent was, and whether its use is deemed justifiable in a

court of law. The more serious the injury caused by your using it,

the greater your liklihood of facing some kind of civil proceeding,

regardless of whether you are ruled justified under criminal law.

The main point I want to stress here is that the decision to carry

or not carry is an individual one. But if you do make that

decision, you absolutely NEED to understand the implications and

ramifications of self defense law and the use of deadly force.

Ignorance can really ruin your day, as in a devasting civil

liability law suit or time in jail. It happens all the time and the

good guys don't always win in the end - even if they win on the

street.

One final thing I want to mention is called the " 21 Foot Rule. " It

was developed by a now-retired policeman named Dennis Tueller and is

currently taught in virtually all responsible law enforcement and

military weapons training programs. It is predicated on normal

reaction times, which for the normal person is about three quarters

of a second. In other words, from the time a threat is presented,

it takes at least that long to physically react to it. It generally

comes into play when a cop shoots someone who is armed with

something less than a firearm but which is capable of causing grave

bodily harm or death (club, knife, broken bottle, etc). Even if the

cop has his weapon drawn, a person within that 21 foot " killing

ground " can close the distance and attack in less time than the cop

can respond. I have seen video demonstrations of this and it is no

joke. I was unaware of this principle the last time someone pulled

a knife on me (and I was carrying at the time). I basically ran a

bluff on him and made him back off just from my body language and my

own " projection " of self confidence. Today? I would immediately

bring my own weapon into play and go from there, no hesitation, no

discussion.

Forgot one thing about travel, especially when flying. Because of

the already mentioned issues of airport security and lack of

complete knowledge of destination laws, I always travel with my

cane. But it is not just an ordinary cane - it is one of the LEKI

telescoping walking sticks. It is fully adjustable in length from a

very short cane to a standard sized walking stick. It also has a

curved cork caned handle that unscrews that lets you use it as a

monopod for a camera or pair of binoculars. In just normal

configuration, it can be used as an improvised weapon. But being

able to take the handle off gives a very compact, very effective,

striking tool that you can keep in your hand. And you are never

going to get questioned about why you have the cane.

Are you beginning to get the idea that I might know a thing or two

about this whole subject?

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

Last thing first...

Mike wrote:

>Are you beginning to get the idea that I might know a thing or two

>about this whole subject?

He-he... Doesn't take me that long to get the idea, Mike... LOL

Really interesting reading everything you said. Having to deal with

the possibility of earthquake etc. is sure something I never have had

to think about. I have learned a little bit about surviving in my

time as in the Red Cross volunteer rescue team here, but something

like that I never had to even think about...

What you say about the pepper spray, I really don't know a thing

about. I only refer to what I have read in the papers here...

There's no doubt that the whole thing about weapons etc. is totally

different here compared to in the US... Very different... I still

feel uneasy when I see Police with guns... Having a hand gun is

really not common here. I don't think I know anybody who owns one.

The only reason for having one, is if you are in a gun club (sport),

or you are working as a military officer (they have them locked away,

don't carry them around). The Police don't carry guns, even if there

has been some discussion about maybe starting to do so also here, but

there's still a lot of people against it, even if criminals more

commonly have illegal guns. The only exception is when people go

hunting, and use some kind of rifle. I have had a shotgun pointed at

me once. Now that was kind of crazy, and I got really shaky

afterwards, thinking of what I did. I just walked towards the gun,

put my hand under the barrel and pushed it up, saying " Come on,

that's enough " ... Thank God it worked... Later I was told that the

guy had been in prison for years for attempted murder...

You mention a few things, that reminds me of other things they

mentioned that time at the rare disorder center. One is carrying a

whistle. They mentioned that too, but also one of those cheap, small

alarms you can have in your pocket or on your keychain (or on your

wheelchair). Boy does those make a horrible sound. That can startle

anybody, that is for sure, it almost hurts. I would think that many

attackers would get out of there if they heard that sound... They

also gave ideas and showed a lot of other ordinary things that can be

used for self defence, as. e.g. pens, nail scissors etc. Do they

allow short nail scissors on the planes in the US now? They didn't

here for quite a while post 9-11, but now they do let you have the

really small ones, including my special ones for people with hand

problems, has long handles almost as on a pair of pliers...

You mention the legal sides of things, and I of course agree with

everything. How things work in the US, I don't know a thing about,

but I do know a thing or two about how it works here. There has been

some cases also here where people claimed self defence but ended up

in trouble afterwards, but also the opposite. There's sure no easy

answers about these things... But, I am sure that looking into self

defence training in some way or another sure is a good idea for many

people with disabilities, and I really think Krav Maga is a good

thing for people with physical challenges... Too bad there's no group

here where I live. Well, right now I wouldn't have the time for it

anyway, but...

Now I am going to veg out in the recliner and watch a movie on TV!!!

Have a nice evening!!!

Aase Marit

>

>

>Here we can actually not even buy pepper spray... Only the Police

>has it (and criminals too, I am sure), as it is considered to be

>very harmful to the eyes (a Policeman actually ended up in hospital

>with bad damage to his eyes after a training session)...

>

>One little thing to add to your list of things you can use to defend

>yourself...

>

> ---------------------

>

>I would be very curious/interested in any documentation about the

>eye injury from pepper spray because that is contrary to everything

>I have ever heard about it. I can understand/accept that it did

>happen in an isolated instance but do not accept/agree that it

>is " very harmful to the eyes " in general. One of the very strong

>plusses about pepper spray is that it does NOT cause permanent

>injury. And, yes, I am VERY familiar with the stuff. Over the years

>I have literally given cases of the stuff away as gifts and have

>personally carried it myself for at least 20 years.

>

>One little thing? There are lots of little things. You mentioned

>hair spray. Any small bottle/can of aerosol product would work just

>as well. As well as pepper spray? No. But it would at least serve

>as a distraction while you threw your power chair into overdrive and

>got the hell out of the area, while yelling at the top of your

>lungs. With five vehicles around here, plus house and other keys, my

>key ring has over a dozen keys on it. I have it set up on multiple

>split rings with swivels. One of the rings has a small ASP pepper

>spray on it that actually looks like a two cell AAA flashlight at

>first glance. With that in my hand, I could either use the spray

>itself as spray or as a handle to use the keys as a flail. I also

>always carry two ballpoint pens in my shirt pocket. If you know what

>you are doing (and I do), pens can become very effective striking

>weapons.

>

>Speaking of yelling, another excellent tool to carry is a GOOD

>whistle. I always carried one when we lived in Alaska because of the

>potential for earthquakes. The primary purpose was for getting help

>or attracting attention if ever trapped in a building. It would

>work equally well for that if being attacked and trying to flee. Of

>course, when we lived in Alaska, I used to carry a LOT of stuff for

>the same reason that I don't normally walk around with in Seattle. I

>used to carry the small baton on me for the same reason. I didn't

>carry it as a self defense tool, I carried it as part of my

>emergency supplies equipment. Having it available as a self defense

>device was just a bonus. I also always carried a good lock-back, one

>hand opening, folding knife with a belt clip in my right rear

>pocket. This was also just a tool for me. That it could be used as

>a weapon was also just a bonus.

>

>In both cases (baton and knife), they gave me a lesser level of

>lethality if the need ever arose before having to resort to the

>heavy stuff. And, yes, I also carried the heavy stuff. I got my

>first carry permit over 40 years ago, have been licensed to carry in

>Oregon, Washington and Alaska, and in fact did carry for better than

>half of my adult life. The periods when I generally did not were

>those times when we lived in California. I have been fortunate to

>live in jurisdictions that for the most part do not treat the

>average citizen like a criminal (California excepted).

>

>All of this is fine when at home. Travel throws a whole new twist

>to things, especially post 9-11. It used to be perfectly legal to

>carry a small pocket knife on a plane as long as the cutting edge of

>the blade was no longer than three inches and the blade was not

>serrated. No more. It also used to be illegal to carry pepper spray

>on a plane, even in checked luggage. That was changed a few years

>back at the insistence of flight crews.

>

>Travel issues include not only what is legal to transport (and how),

>but also knowing what is legal to possess or carry at your

>destination. And a very critical aspect of this is whether

>the " offense " is considered a discretionary or mandatory bust. Using

>vehicle laws as an example, if you get caught going 70 in a 65 zone,

>the officer has enormous discretion. He can ignore it, as in not

>even stopping you. He can stop you and give you a verbal warning by

>just telling you to keep your speed down. He can give you a written

>warning that does not involve a fine, or he can give you a ticket

>that has a fine attached. In other words, the involved officer has

>enormous discretion about what action he or she chooses to take.

>Blast through a 25 mph school zone doing 90 when there are kids

>waiting to cross, however, and the offense is no longer considered

>discretionary. It now becomes a mandatory situation. The involved

>officer has no choice. You will be arrested. Your car will be

>impounded. And you are going to take a handcuffed ride in his back

>seat to the nearest precinct house.

>

>The same principle applies where defensive weapons are concerned,

>but with a bit of an added twist. Get stopped in New York City with

>a loaded .38 in your pocket and you are going to get arrested. In

>jurisdictions where the offense is classed as a misdemeanor, the

>officer has discretion. (If it is a felony, the bust is mandatory.)

>So, let's say you are someplace where there is some discretion.

>Now, let's first assume that you are a young, shapely, attractive

>female and the involved officer is a father with a couple of teenage

>daughters. How do you think that officer is going to react in your

>situation versus the same officer stopping an obvious gang-banger?

>He is going to bust the gang-banger, get " the weapon " (whatever it

>is) off the street, and take advantage of the opportunity to ruin

>the gang-banger's day. In the case of the young lady, he might

>instead give her some additional pointers on how she can best

>protect herself and send her on her way with a " have a nice day. "

>

>When we first moved down from Alaska, I got stopped twice (once for

>a cracked windshield and the other for a defective tail light).

>Both cases involved two officers in the vehicle. Both cases also

>involved my having in my possession two guns (both set up with

>Crimson Trace Laser Grips), an ASP tactical baton, a top of the line

>lock-back knife, and pepper spray. I immediately told the involved

>officers that I was licensed to carry and was in fact carrying.

>They then proceeded to follow standard procedure and secured all

>obvious weapons while we discussed my infraction of the vehicle

>code. Their reaction as to the weapons I had on me? In both cases,

>one cop says to the other " He's got better gear than we do! " And in

>one of the cases, one of the cops said " I wish more of the good guys

>were like you. We can't always be where we are needed, when we are

>needed, and people need to take responsibility for their own safety. "

>

>And taking responsibility for your own safety where self defense is

>involved covers a whole raft of issues. It goes well beyond just

>taking a class and/or choosing to carry some kind of self defense

>device, whether that device is pepper spray, a baton, a firearm or a

>ball point pen. It makes no difference whether your " weapon of

>choice " is an obvious weapon or an improvised weapon (like hair

>spray). The issue is why you were carrying it in the first place,

>what your intent was, and whether its use is deemed justifiable in a

>court of law. The more serious the injury caused by your using it,

>the greater your liklihood of facing some kind of civil proceeding,

>regardless of whether you are ruled justified under criminal law.

>The main point I want to stress here is that the decision to carry

>or not carry is an individual one. But if you do make that

>decision, you absolutely NEED to understand the implications and

>ramifications of self defense law and the use of deadly force.

>Ignorance can really ruin your day, as in a devasting civil

>liability law suit or time in jail. It happens all the time and the

>good guys don't always win in the end - even if they win on the

>street.

>

>One final thing I want to mention is called the " 21 Foot Rule. " It

>was developed by a now-retired policeman named Dennis Tueller and is

>currently taught in virtually all responsible law enforcement and

>military weapons training programs. It is predicated on normal

>reaction times, which for the normal person is about three quarters

>of a second. In other words, from the time a threat is presented,

>it takes at least that long to physically react to it. It generally

>comes into play when a cop shoots someone who is armed with

>something less than a firearm but which is capable of causing grave

>bodily harm or death (club, knife, broken bottle, etc). Even if the

>cop has his weapon drawn, a person within that 21 foot " killing

>ground " can close the distance and attack in less time than the cop

>can respond. I have seen video demonstrations of this and it is no

>joke. I was unaware of this principle the last time someone pulled

>a knife on me (and I was carrying at the time). I basically ran a

>bluff on him and made him back off just from my body language and my

>own " projection " of self confidence. Today? I would immediately

>bring my own weapon into play and go from there, no hesitation, no

>discussion.

>

>Forgot one thing about travel, especially when flying. Because of

>the already mentioned issues of airport security and lack of

>complete knowledge of destination laws, I always travel with my

>cane. But it is not just an ordinary cane - it is one of the LEKI

>telescoping walking sticks. It is fully adjustable in length from a

>very short cane to a standard sized walking stick. It also has a

>curved cork caned handle that unscrews that lets you use it as a

>monopod for a camera or pair of binoculars. In just normal

>configuration, it can be used as an improvised weapon. But being

>able to take the handle off gives a very compact, very effective,

>striking tool that you can keep in your hand. And you are never

>going to get questioned about why you have the cane.

>

>Are you beginning to get the idea that I might know a thing or two

>about this whole subject?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

Last thing first...

Mike wrote:

>Are you beginning to get the idea that I might know a thing or two

>about this whole subject?

He-he... Doesn't take me that long to get the idea, Mike... LOL

Really interesting reading everything you said. Having to deal with

the possibility of earthquake etc. is sure something I never have had

to think about. I have learned a little bit about surviving in my

time as in the Red Cross volunteer rescue team here, but something

like that I never had to even think about...

What you say about the pepper spray, I really don't know a thing

about. I only refer to what I have read in the papers here...

There's no doubt that the whole thing about weapons etc. is totally

different here compared to in the US... Very different... I still

feel uneasy when I see Police with guns... Having a hand gun is

really not common here. I don't think I know anybody who owns one.

The only reason for having one, is if you are in a gun club (sport),

or you are working as a military officer (they have them locked away,

don't carry them around). The Police don't carry guns, even if there

has been some discussion about maybe starting to do so also here, but

there's still a lot of people against it, even if criminals more

commonly have illegal guns. The only exception is when people go

hunting, and use some kind of rifle. I have had a shotgun pointed at

me once. Now that was kind of crazy, and I got really shaky

afterwards, thinking of what I did. I just walked towards the gun,

put my hand under the barrel and pushed it up, saying " Come on,

that's enough " ... Thank God it worked... Later I was told that the

guy had been in prison for years for attempted murder...

You mention a few things, that reminds me of other things they

mentioned that time at the rare disorder center. One is carrying a

whistle. They mentioned that too, but also one of those cheap, small

alarms you can have in your pocket or on your keychain (or on your

wheelchair). Boy does those make a horrible sound. That can startle

anybody, that is for sure, it almost hurts. I would think that many

attackers would get out of there if they heard that sound... They

also gave ideas and showed a lot of other ordinary things that can be

used for self defence, as. e.g. pens, nail scissors etc. Do they

allow short nail scissors on the planes in the US now? They didn't

here for quite a while post 9-11, but now they do let you have the

really small ones, including my special ones for people with hand

problems, has long handles almost as on a pair of pliers...

You mention the legal sides of things, and I of course agree with

everything. How things work in the US, I don't know a thing about,

but I do know a thing or two about how it works here. There has been

some cases also here where people claimed self defence but ended up

in trouble afterwards, but also the opposite. There's sure no easy

answers about these things... But, I am sure that looking into self

defence training in some way or another sure is a good idea for many

people with disabilities, and I really think Krav Maga is a good

thing for people with physical challenges... Too bad there's no group

here where I live. Well, right now I wouldn't have the time for it

anyway, but...

Now I am going to veg out in the recliner and watch a movie on TV!!!

Have a nice evening!!!

Aase Marit

>

>

>Here we can actually not even buy pepper spray... Only the Police

>has it (and criminals too, I am sure), as it is considered to be

>very harmful to the eyes (a Policeman actually ended up in hospital

>with bad damage to his eyes after a training session)...

>

>One little thing to add to your list of things you can use to defend

>yourself...

>

> ---------------------

>

>I would be very curious/interested in any documentation about the

>eye injury from pepper spray because that is contrary to everything

>I have ever heard about it. I can understand/accept that it did

>happen in an isolated instance but do not accept/agree that it

>is " very harmful to the eyes " in general. One of the very strong

>plusses about pepper spray is that it does NOT cause permanent

>injury. And, yes, I am VERY familiar with the stuff. Over the years

>I have literally given cases of the stuff away as gifts and have

>personally carried it myself for at least 20 years.

>

>One little thing? There are lots of little things. You mentioned

>hair spray. Any small bottle/can of aerosol product would work just

>as well. As well as pepper spray? No. But it would at least serve

>as a distraction while you threw your power chair into overdrive and

>got the hell out of the area, while yelling at the top of your

>lungs. With five vehicles around here, plus house and other keys, my

>key ring has over a dozen keys on it. I have it set up on multiple

>split rings with swivels. One of the rings has a small ASP pepper

>spray on it that actually looks like a two cell AAA flashlight at

>first glance. With that in my hand, I could either use the spray

>itself as spray or as a handle to use the keys as a flail. I also

>always carry two ballpoint pens in my shirt pocket. If you know what

>you are doing (and I do), pens can become very effective striking

>weapons.

>

>Speaking of yelling, another excellent tool to carry is a GOOD

>whistle. I always carried one when we lived in Alaska because of the

>potential for earthquakes. The primary purpose was for getting help

>or attracting attention if ever trapped in a building. It would

>work equally well for that if being attacked and trying to flee. Of

>course, when we lived in Alaska, I used to carry a LOT of stuff for

>the same reason that I don't normally walk around with in Seattle. I

>used to carry the small baton on me for the same reason. I didn't

>carry it as a self defense tool, I carried it as part of my

>emergency supplies equipment. Having it available as a self defense

>device was just a bonus. I also always carried a good lock-back, one

>hand opening, folding knife with a belt clip in my right rear

>pocket. This was also just a tool for me. That it could be used as

>a weapon was also just a bonus.

>

>In both cases (baton and knife), they gave me a lesser level of

>lethality if the need ever arose before having to resort to the

>heavy stuff. And, yes, I also carried the heavy stuff. I got my

>first carry permit over 40 years ago, have been licensed to carry in

>Oregon, Washington and Alaska, and in fact did carry for better than

>half of my adult life. The periods when I generally did not were

>those times when we lived in California. I have been fortunate to

>live in jurisdictions that for the most part do not treat the

>average citizen like a criminal (California excepted).

>

>All of this is fine when at home. Travel throws a whole new twist

>to things, especially post 9-11. It used to be perfectly legal to

>carry a small pocket knife on a plane as long as the cutting edge of

>the blade was no longer than three inches and the blade was not

>serrated. No more. It also used to be illegal to carry pepper spray

>on a plane, even in checked luggage. That was changed a few years

>back at the insistence of flight crews.

>

>Travel issues include not only what is legal to transport (and how),

>but also knowing what is legal to possess or carry at your

>destination. And a very critical aspect of this is whether

>the " offense " is considered a discretionary or mandatory bust. Using

>vehicle laws as an example, if you get caught going 70 in a 65 zone,

>the officer has enormous discretion. He can ignore it, as in not

>even stopping you. He can stop you and give you a verbal warning by

>just telling you to keep your speed down. He can give you a written

>warning that does not involve a fine, or he can give you a ticket

>that has a fine attached. In other words, the involved officer has

>enormous discretion about what action he or she chooses to take.

>Blast through a 25 mph school zone doing 90 when there are kids

>waiting to cross, however, and the offense is no longer considered

>discretionary. It now becomes a mandatory situation. The involved

>officer has no choice. You will be arrested. Your car will be

>impounded. And you are going to take a handcuffed ride in his back

>seat to the nearest precinct house.

>

>The same principle applies where defensive weapons are concerned,

>but with a bit of an added twist. Get stopped in New York City with

>a loaded .38 in your pocket and you are going to get arrested. In

>jurisdictions where the offense is classed as a misdemeanor, the

>officer has discretion. (If it is a felony, the bust is mandatory.)

>So, let's say you are someplace where there is some discretion.

>Now, let's first assume that you are a young, shapely, attractive

>female and the involved officer is a father with a couple of teenage

>daughters. How do you think that officer is going to react in your

>situation versus the same officer stopping an obvious gang-banger?

>He is going to bust the gang-banger, get " the weapon " (whatever it

>is) off the street, and take advantage of the opportunity to ruin

>the gang-banger's day. In the case of the young lady, he might

>instead give her some additional pointers on how she can best

>protect herself and send her on her way with a " have a nice day. "

>

>When we first moved down from Alaska, I got stopped twice (once for

>a cracked windshield and the other for a defective tail light).

>Both cases involved two officers in the vehicle. Both cases also

>involved my having in my possession two guns (both set up with

>Crimson Trace Laser Grips), an ASP tactical baton, a top of the line

>lock-back knife, and pepper spray. I immediately told the involved

>officers that I was licensed to carry and was in fact carrying.

>They then proceeded to follow standard procedure and secured all

>obvious weapons while we discussed my infraction of the vehicle

>code. Their reaction as to the weapons I had on me? In both cases,

>one cop says to the other " He's got better gear than we do! " And in

>one of the cases, one of the cops said " I wish more of the good guys

>were like you. We can't always be where we are needed, when we are

>needed, and people need to take responsibility for their own safety. "

>

>And taking responsibility for your own safety where self defense is

>involved covers a whole raft of issues. It goes well beyond just

>taking a class and/or choosing to carry some kind of self defense

>device, whether that device is pepper spray, a baton, a firearm or a

>ball point pen. It makes no difference whether your " weapon of

>choice " is an obvious weapon or an improvised weapon (like hair

>spray). The issue is why you were carrying it in the first place,

>what your intent was, and whether its use is deemed justifiable in a

>court of law. The more serious the injury caused by your using it,

>the greater your liklihood of facing some kind of civil proceeding,

>regardless of whether you are ruled justified under criminal law.

>The main point I want to stress here is that the decision to carry

>or not carry is an individual one. But if you do make that

>decision, you absolutely NEED to understand the implications and

>ramifications of self defense law and the use of deadly force.

>Ignorance can really ruin your day, as in a devasting civil

>liability law suit or time in jail. It happens all the time and the

>good guys don't always win in the end - even if they win on the

>street.

>

>One final thing I want to mention is called the " 21 Foot Rule. " It

>was developed by a now-retired policeman named Dennis Tueller and is

>currently taught in virtually all responsible law enforcement and

>military weapons training programs. It is predicated on normal

>reaction times, which for the normal person is about three quarters

>of a second. In other words, from the time a threat is presented,

>it takes at least that long to physically react to it. It generally

>comes into play when a cop shoots someone who is armed with

>something less than a firearm but which is capable of causing grave

>bodily harm or death (club, knife, broken bottle, etc). Even if the

>cop has his weapon drawn, a person within that 21 foot " killing

>ground " can close the distance and attack in less time than the cop

>can respond. I have seen video demonstrations of this and it is no

>joke. I was unaware of this principle the last time someone pulled

>a knife on me (and I was carrying at the time). I basically ran a

>bluff on him and made him back off just from my body language and my

>own " projection " of self confidence. Today? I would immediately

>bring my own weapon into play and go from there, no hesitation, no

>discussion.

>

>Forgot one thing about travel, especially when flying. Because of

>the already mentioned issues of airport security and lack of

>complete knowledge of destination laws, I always travel with my

>cane. But it is not just an ordinary cane - it is one of the LEKI

>telescoping walking sticks. It is fully adjustable in length from a

>very short cane to a standard sized walking stick. It also has a

>curved cork caned handle that unscrews that lets you use it as a

>monopod for a camera or pair of binoculars. In just normal

>configuration, it can be used as an improvised weapon. But being

>able to take the handle off gives a very compact, very effective,

>striking tool that you can keep in your hand. And you are never

>going to get questioned about why you have the cane.

>

>Are you beginning to get the idea that I might know a thing or two

>about this whole subject?

>