RE: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

[Guest guest]

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@... writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Dick I fully agree with what you say, as a 45 year old man that is. I did a

bit of a social experiment with my kids 20 - 25 all were like " yea I get

it " but their body language and such told me otherwise.

Now granted my kids are well my kids so they by default are warped so it's

certainly not empirical but I do think they are representative of the age

group.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 10:38:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

dsmith@... writes:

I think (or at least hope) that the difference here is that the viewer

tends to put themselves in the shoes of the drivers. The scenes of

" look what I have done " and " see what the consequences are to me " are

very powerful. I hope it has the proper effect on my grandsons.

*Dick - EMT-B

*

*Celina Fire Department

*

On 6/3/2010 9:57 AM, _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...) wrote:

>

> I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect

> that we

> tend to think they do.

>

> Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

> movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

>

> Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

>

> I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

> of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

> and

> the news too that they get numb in a way.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

>

> _LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

I think (or at least hope) that the difference here is that the viewer

tends to put themselves in the shoes of the drivers. The scenes of

" look what I have done " and " see what the consequences are to me " are

very powerful. I hope it has the proper effect on my grandsons.

*Dick - EMT-B

*

*Celina Fire Department

*

>

> I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect

> that we

> tend to think they do.

>

> Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

> movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

>

> Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

>

> I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

> of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

> and

> the news too that they get numb in a way.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

[Guest guest]

I purposefully avoided mentioning Shattered Dreams and or programs like

DARE and GREAT where the studies post fact are negative as it is as hard to

convince someone who has " bought into " those regardless of age or proof etc

that those things don't work and in fact may even be harmful.

Sounds like we could talk about CISM, MAST, The Golden Hour etc. etc. etc.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:35:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

rick.moore@... writes:

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury preventionâ€

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered dreams type

of

program and feel they are successful. In reality studies have shown that a

very small number of the participants may alter behavior for up to a 6

month period of time and there is not any real modification with any of those

who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each of the

kids said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they were very good at

texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot tall and bullet

proof teenager.

Rick

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ;

_Paramedicine _ (mailto:Paramedicine ) ;

_nemsma (AT) google_ (mailto:nemsma (AT) google)

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_PRECEPTER@..._ (mailto:PRECEPTER@...)

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

Don I am saying in the face of PROOF that these programs may cause

harm????????

That's not reason enough?????????

Do we not stop medical trials when we see the POTENTIAL for harm? Hemopure

comes to mind as do a few others of light and those were things touted as

revolutionary changes to the clinical care side.

If we apply the " standard " of EBM to clinical care why would we not in

injury prevention and operations topics???????????

EMS is not, never has been nor never will be ONLY about medicine and in

fact I think one might argue in light of very few studies showing efficacy of

" street medicine " maybe it is even less about medicine than some would like

to think!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:43:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

delbert@... writes:

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> _rick.moore@..._ (mailto:rick.moore@...) > 6/3/2010

2:35 PM >>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury preventionâ€

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each

of the kids said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ;

_Paramedicine _ (mailto:Paramedicine ) ;

_nemsma (AT) google_ (mailto:nemsma (AT) google)

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_PRECEPTER@..._ (mailto:PRECEPTER@...)

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury prevention†programs

in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered dreams type of

program and feel they are successful. In reality studies have shown that a very

small number of the participants may alter behavior for up to a 6 month period

of time and there is not any real modification with any of those who merely

watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of teens

who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each of the kids

said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they were very good at texting

and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot tall and bullet proof

teenager.

Rick

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: texasems-l ; Paramedicine ;

nemsma (AT) google

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@... writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> rick.moore@...> 6/3/2010 2:35 PM >>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury preventionâ€

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each

of the kids said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: texasems-l ; Paramedicine ;

nemsma (AT) google

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@... writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

You probably don’t believe in evidence based medicine either.

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of Don Elbert

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:43 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> rick.moore@...> 6/3/2010 2:35 PM

>>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury preventionâ€

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each

of the kids said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: texasems-l

[mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: texasems-l ;

Paramedicine ;

nemsma (AT) google

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@...

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

Actually if rigorous and objective evaluations repeatedly show that an

intervention doesn't have the desired effect, i.e. changing youth

behaviors, then that is exactly the argument for not continuing them. As

good steward of public dollars and trust, funds should be put into those

things which have been proven effective rather than continuing to poor

dollars into things that aren't effective.

If there is just reason to be skeptical, then that is a valid argument

for the need to have rigorous and objective evaluation done to determine

if it works (or not) and why (or why not). The evaluation may lead to a

tweaking or changing of the intervention that can make it effective or

it may lead to discontinuing the intervention.

While there are some things we have to do based on the desires of the

community, even if they aren't effective, we don't need to do them on

the grounds that they are an effective behavior change intervention.

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

Tobacco Prevention & Control Program Coordinator

Substance Abuse Services Unit

Mental Health and Substance Abuse Division

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Don Elbert

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:43 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> rick.moore@... >

6/3/2010 2:35 PM >>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the " injury prevention "

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each

of the kids said that this wouldn't happen to them because they were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: texasems-l

[mailto:texasems-l

] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: texasems-l ;

Paramedicine ;

nemsma (AT) google

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@...

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

I usually don't say anything on here, but do listen to all going on. This time I

noticed something Rick said that shook my senses. He wrote: It is just hard to

convince a 10 foot tall and bullet proof teenager " how right you are Rick! BUT,

also my husband complains non-stop about the women that txt or talk while

driving, then stop at the light and reach for make-up and brushes, lights turn

and here they go applying lipstick and brushing their hair while talking on the

phone. Then they speed in and out of two semi's because they don't like driving

behind them. All the time having kids in the car.

Think there could be a good video for that one too? Some might not be massive

effective, but if just one single accident/injury/death could be avoided? Just

one is very much worth it. All we have seen about DWI and DUI's causing injury

and death, has it saved one - probably, has it stopped it, never. But, is it a

good thing to show this to teenagers, They need to see it, they need to hear

about, they need to hopefully prevent it from involving them.

EMS folks are the ones that have to go when called and see what should never

have happened, EMS folks live with what they see that most never will. It sinks

in to the EMS folks, it needs to sink into everyone and be available to seen by

everyone.

Thank you for letting my two cents worth of thoughts out.

Marilyn Ollarzabal, Director

CCAT, CPAT, CMRS, RMC

CLAIMS ACTION

Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@... writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

I usually don't say anything on here, but do listen to all going on. This time I

noticed something Rick said that shook my senses. He wrote: It is just hard to

convince a 10 foot tall and bullet proof teenager " how right you are Rick! BUT,

also my husband complains non-stop about the women that txt or talk while

driving, then stop at the light and reach for make-up and brushes, lights turn

and here they go applying lipstick and brushing their hair while talking on the

phone. Then they speed in and out of two semi's because they don't like driving

behind them. All the time having kids in the car.

Think there could be a good video for that one too? Some might not be massive

effective, but if just one single accident/injury/death could be avoided? Just

one is very much worth it. All we have seen about DWI and DUI's causing injury

and death, has it saved one - probably, has it stopped it, never. But, is it a

good thing to show this to teenagers, They need to see it, they need to hear

about, they need to hopefully prevent it from involving them.

EMS folks are the ones that have to go when called and see what should never

have happened, EMS folks live with what they see that most never will. It sinks

in to the EMS folks, it needs to sink into everyone and be available to seen by

everyone.

Thank you for letting my two cents worth of thoughts out.

Marilyn Ollarzabal, Director

CCAT, CPAT, CMRS, RMC

CLAIMS ACTION

Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@... writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

I'm not a big believer in these events nor one that sees that they should

discontinue. Where is there rigorous and objective evaluations on this stuff?

>>> " Sharp, Barry " barry.sharp@...> 6/3/2010 2:51 PM >>>

Actually if rigorous and objective evaluations repeatedly show that an

intervention doesn't have the desired effect, i.e. changing youth

behaviors, then that is exactly the argument for not continuing them. As

good steward of public dollars and trust, funds should be put into those

things which have been proven effective rather than continuing to poor

dollars into things that aren't effective.

If there is just reason to be skeptical, then that is a valid argument

for the need to have rigorous and objective evaluation done to determine

if it works (or not) and why (or why not). The evaluation may lead to a

tweaking or changing of the intervention that can make it effective or

it may lead to discontinuing the intervention.

While there are some things we have to do based on the desires of the

community, even if they aren't effective, we don't need to do them on

the grounds that they are an effective behavior change intervention.

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Barry Sharp, MSHP, CHES

Tobacco Prevention & Control Program Coordinator

Substance Abuse Services Unit

Mental Health and Substance Abuse Division

________________________________

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On

Behalf Of Don Elbert

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:43 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> rick.moore@... >

6/3/2010 2:35 PM >>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the " injury prevention "

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program each

of the kids said that this wouldn't happen to them because they were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10 foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: texasems-l

[mailto:texasems-l

] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: texasems-l ;

Paramedicine ;

nemsma (AT) google

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@...

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Guest guest]

Rick - As many comments come from you on this list serve - has any ever been

positive? Cannot remember any as many as you throw out there. I'm not sure how

you connected evidence-based medicine to an opinion on these presentations. If

there is valid evidence that drinking & driving should be discontinued - and

there are no requests for them - let's quit doing them. If the schools seek them

because their faculty believe in them and they believe there is reason to

conduct them.....let's give that some respect and continue them. My sole point

lies there. I don't participate in these myself but if my child or yours MIGHT

be impacted by one.....I'm for it.

Don, Tyler

===========================================================

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of this message is strictly prohibited. If you

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===========================================================

[Guest guest]

Lou - Maybe I missed the proof. I'm against these things if there is

hard proof. Is there?

>>> lnmolino@...> 6/3/2010 2:47 PM >>>

Don I am saying in the face of PROOF that these programs may cause

harm????????

That's not reason enough?????????

Do we not stop medical trials when we see the POTENTIAL for harm?

Hemopure

comes to mind as do a few others of light and those were things touted

as

revolutionary changes to the clinical care side.

If we apply the " standard " of EBM to clinical care why would we not in

injury prevention and operations topics???????????

EMS is not, never has been nor never will be ONLY about medicine and in

fact I think one might argue in light of very few studies showing

efficacy of

" street medicine " maybe it is even less about medicine than some would

like

to think!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:43:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

delbert@... writes:

While there is reason to be skeptical as to the effect of these

programs....it's still not a valid argument to discontinuing them.

>>> _rick.moore@..._ (mailto:rick.moore@...) >

6/3/2010

2:35 PM >>>

Unfortunately this is the way with many of the “injury

preventionâ€

programs in use today. Everybody has heard of or seen the shattered

dreams type of program and feel they are successful. In reality

studies

have shown that a very small number of the participants may alter

behavior for up to a 6 month period of time and there is not any real

modification with any of those who merely watch the program.

I recently watched a program where a young man who had hit and killed

a

pedestrian while he was texting and driving told his story to a group

of

teens who were known to text and drive. At the end of the program

each

of the kids said that this wouldn’t happen to them because they

were

very good at texting and driving. It is just hard to convince a 10

foot

tall and bullet proof teenager.

Rick

From: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l )

[mailto:_texasems-l _

(mailto:texasems-l ) ] On

Behalf Of _lnmolino@..._ (mailto:lnmolino@...)

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:57 AM

To: _texasems-l _ (mailto:texasems-l ) ;

_Paramedicine _ (mailto:Paramedicine ) ;

_nemsma (AT) google_ (mailto:nemsma (AT) google)

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect

that

we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV,

in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they

do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or

another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the

kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these

things

and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

_LNMolino@..._ (mailto:LNMolino@...)

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 -

1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

_PRECEPTER@..._ (mailto:PRECEPTER@...)

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

===========================================================

This message is confidential, intended only

for the named recipient(s) and may contain

information that is privileged or exempt from

disclosure under applicable law. If you are

not the intended recipient(s), you are notified

that the dissemination, distribution or copying

of this message is strictly prohibited. If you

received this message in error, or are not the

named recipient(s), please notify the sender

and delete this e-mail from your computer.

ETMC has implemented secure messaging for

certain types of messages. For more information

about our secure messaging system, go to:

_http://www.etmc.org/mail/_ (http://www.etmc.org/mail/)

Thank you.

===========================================================

[Guest guest]

Sounds good Lou....What proof? Are you or Rick or Barry saying there is true

proof that DWI programs for high-schoolers have no value? Just wondering. Maybe

there is - I'd like to know actually...... I ONLY offered my thought that there

is skepticism but see no reason to discontinue these programs and 3 guys jump on

it with one asking if I believe in evidence-based medicine and another with a

comparison to doing things only because they " feel-good " . What?

There's a big difference between skepticism and evidence.

Do you guys sit at your desks all day just waiting on someone to post a

comment/opinion so you can shoot holes in it? Do you know what presumptuous

means? Argumentative?

It's why a lot of good folks say they stay away from this listserve. I see what

they mean.

>>> lnmolino@...> 6/3/2010 3:08 PM >>>

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

Sounds good Lou....What proof? Are you or Rick or Barry saying there is true

proof that DWI programs for high-schoolers have no value? Just wondering. Maybe

there is - I'd like to know actually...... I ONLY offered my thought that there

is skepticism but see no reason to discontinue these programs and 3 guys jump on

it with one asking if I believe in evidence-based medicine and another with a

comparison to doing things only because they " feel-good " . What?

There's a big difference between skepticism and evidence.

Do you guys sit at your desks all day just waiting on someone to post a

comment/opinion so you can shoot holes in it? Do you know what presumptuous

means? Argumentative?

It's why a lot of good folks say they stay away from this listserve. I see what

they mean.

>>> lnmolino@...> 6/3/2010 3:08 PM >>>

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

It would seem that some interdisciplinary collaboration maybe helpful here.

There are those with expertise in applied behavioral modification techniques per

se in the advertising / marketing field as well as in academia with behavioral

sciences. Perhaps engaging those sorts of people to collaborate with EMS on this

sort of public education campaign could lead things in a new and more effective

direction. The same sort of collaboration may help with campaigns to reduce

delays from symptom onset to 9-1-1 activation for heart attack and stroke;

seatbelt use; bystander first aid and chest compressions; drinking and driving,

etc.

--- Mic

Mic Gunderson

President, IPS

PO Box 2128

Lakeland, Fl 33806

mic@...

www.onlineips.com/publicsafety

>

> I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

> tend to think they do.

>

> Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

> movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

>

> Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

>

> I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

> of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

> the news too that they get numb in a way.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

[Guest guest]

It would seem that some interdisciplinary collaboration maybe helpful here.

There are those with expertise in applied behavioral modification techniques per

se in the advertising / marketing field as well as in academia with behavioral

sciences. Perhaps engaging those sorts of people to collaborate with EMS on this

sort of public education campaign could lead things in a new and more effective

direction. The same sort of collaboration may help with campaigns to reduce

delays from symptom onset to 9-1-1 activation for heart attack and stroke;

seatbelt use; bystander first aid and chest compressions; drinking and driving,

etc.

--- Mic

Mic Gunderson

President, IPS

PO Box 2128

Lakeland, Fl 33806

mic@...

www.onlineips.com/publicsafety

>

> I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

> tend to think they do.

>

> Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

> movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

>

> Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

>

> I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

> of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

> the news too that they get numb in a way.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

>

[Guest guest]

I goes without saying, another example of EMS eating their own. Come on people,

let's just agree to disagree. Even if this, or any program like this only saves

one child it is worth it. Every life is precious, and deserves every possible

chance of survival.

Just my $0.02.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

Sounds good Lou....What proof? Are you or Rick or Barry saying there is true

proof that DWI programs for high-schoolers have no value? Just wondering. Maybe

there is - I'd like to know actually...... I ONLY offered my thought that there

is skepticism but see no reason to discontinue these programs and 3 guys jump on

it with one asking if I believe in evidence-based medicine and another with a

comparison to doing things only because they " feel-good " . What?

There's a big difference between skepticism and evidence.

Do you guys sit at your desks all day just waiting on someone to post a

comment/opinion so you can shoot holes in it? Do you know what presumptuous

means? Argumentative?

It's why a lot of good folks say they stay away from this listserve. I see what

they mean.

>>> lnmolino@...> 6/3/2010 3:08 PM >>>

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

I goes without saying, another example of EMS eating their own. Come on people,

let's just agree to disagree. Even if this, or any program like this only saves

one child it is worth it. Every life is precious, and deserves every possible

chance of survival.

Just my $0.02.

Sent from my iPhone,

McGee, EMT-P, EMT-T

Sounds good Lou....What proof? Are you or Rick or Barry saying there is true

proof that DWI programs for high-schoolers have no value? Just wondering. Maybe

there is - I'd like to know actually...... I ONLY offered my thought that there

is skepticism but see no reason to discontinue these programs and 3 guys jump on

it with one asking if I believe in evidence-based medicine and another with a

comparison to doing things only because they " feel-good " . What?

There's a big difference between skepticism and evidence.

Do you guys sit at your desks all day just waiting on someone to post a

comment/opinion so you can shoot holes in it? Do you know what presumptuous

means? Argumentative?

It's why a lot of good folks say they stay away from this listserve. I see what

they mean.

>>> lnmolino@...> 6/3/2010 3:08 PM >>>

In a message dated 6/3/2010 2:52:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

barry.sharp@... writes:

Maybe they are only good as a public relations activity that promotes

the agency as " good guys " . Then you have to decide if the " good guy "

feeling is worth the costs of doing the activity.

Yet even in the face of PROOF where things do or likely do (forget the MAY

word) we see things done in the name of " it feels good " and that just isn't

right!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

[Guest guest]

Don,

I apologize that you think all my comments are negative, I don't but that is

probably just me. The irony here is that I took your comment as being negative.

As one who is very active in injury prevention activities I try to participate

in those that are discussed in the CDC Clinical Guide for Prevention and the

Community Guide for Prevention. In order to make the CDC guide the program must

have data backing up its effectiveness.

I take the approach I do based on dwindling funding sources and a down economy.

If a system has unlimited dollars for these programs then sure lets do them all

regardless of the effectiveness. If dollars are short we need to do what is most

effective for the amount of money spent. I often hear " but Rick, if it saves

just one child isn't it worth it? I like to think of it this way. I have a

certain amount of money budgeted to feed my family for a week. I can splurge and

buy steaks and lobster tails and feed them one good meal or I can scrimp and

feed them hamburgers and beans and they eat all week. I love steak and lobster

(as do my wife and kids) but we choose to eat all week.

Rick

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of Don Elbert

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 3:08 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: RE: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

Rick - As many comments come from you on this list serve - has any ever been

positive? Cannot remember any as many as you throw out there. I'm not sure how

you connected evidence-based medicine to an opinion on these presentations. If

there is valid evidence that drinking & driving should be discontinued - and

there are no requests for them - let's quit doing them. If the schools seek them

because their faculty believe in them and they believe there is reason to

conduct them.....let's give that some respect and continue them. My sole point

lies there. I don't participate in these myself but if my child or yours MIGHT

be impacted by one.....I'm for it.

Don, Tyler

===========================================================

This message is confidential, intended only

for the named recipient(s) and may contain

information that is privileged or exempt from

disclosure under applicable law. If you are

not the intended recipient(s), you are notified

that the dissemination, distribution or copying

of this message is strictly prohibited. If you

received this message in error, or are not the

named recipient(s), please notify the sender

and delete this e-mail from your computer.

ETMC has implemented secure messaging for

certain types of messages. For more information

about our secure messaging system, go to:

http://www.etmc.org/mail/

Thank you.

===========================================================

[Guest guest]

You are exactly right. We don’t do a good job of modeling proper behavior, not

only as parents to our own children but as a society and truly I think one of

the big problems is that there are too many lawyers (sorry, Wes and Gene). We

know without a doubt that drunk driving is an epidemic in this country, but how

many times have you heard this: “don’t drink and drive but if you do call

(insert lawyer’s name here) I will get you offâ€. We try to establish

sobriety check points and get shot down because we may violate someone’s

rights, we hold “no refusal weekends†and the lawyers gripe that we are

violating the drunk drivers rights to not self incriminate or submit to

unreasonable search and seizure. I think it is sad that we have gotten to the

point in this country that we are more concerned with not violating the rights

of criminals and not protecting the rights of you and me and our loved ones to

not be hit and killed by a drunk driver.

Apologies for the negativity.

Rick

From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf

Of marilyn

Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:55 PM

To: texasems-l

Subject: Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I usually don't say anything on here, but do listen to all going on. This time I

noticed something Rick said that shook my senses. He wrote: It is just hard to

convince a 10 foot tall and bullet proof teenager " how right you are Rick! BUT,

also my husband complains non-stop about the women that txt or talk while

driving, then stop at the light and reach for make-up and brushes, lights turn

and here they go applying lipstick and brushing their hair while talking on the

phone. Then they speed in and out of two semi's because they don't like driving

behind them. All the time having kids in the car.

Think there could be a good video for that one too? Some might not be massive

effective, but if just one single accident/injury/death could be avoided? Just

one is very much worth it. All we have seen about DWI and DUI's causing injury

and death, has it saved one - probably, has it stopped it, never. But, is it a

good thing to show this to teenagers, They need to see it, they need to hear

about, they need to hopefully prevent it from involving them.

EMS folks are the ones that have to go when called and see what should never

have happened, EMS folks live with what they see that most never will. It sinks

in to the EMS folks, it needs to sink into everyone and be available to seen by

everyone.

Thank you for letting my two cents worth of thoughts out.

Marilyn Ollarzabal, Director

CCAT, CPAT, CMRS, RMC

CLAIMS ACTION

Re: Drive Safely - warning graphic violence

I'm not so sure these have affect or at least the wholesale affect that we

tend to think they do.

Sadly the target audience is so use to graphic blood and gore on TV, in

movies and such they see through these or at least I sense that they do.

Are there any empirical studies showing these work in one way or another?

I'd love to think they do have some affect but I just think that the kids

of at least the past two generations are so use to seeing these things and

the news too that they get numb in a way.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/3/2010 9:53:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

PRECEPTER@...

writes:

No Joke,,,,,,,, wow excellent for young drivers

Eddie