Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to see what kind of protection is being offered. ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, rick.moore@... writes: That's a good thing. Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM To: texasems-l Cc: Bledsoe Subject: CISM in a big way! As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. Just an FYI, y'all. Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 my point exactly. ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:21 Central Standard Time, kellow.bob@... writes: I'm sure it'll all be fleshed out going forward, but granting immunities without stipulating qualifications seems irrational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are pushing this... maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the subject? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (979) 690-7559 (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 my experience with CISM has been that the fire side seems to have pushed it more than the ambulance services. The hospital debriefings should already be covered under the M&M exclusion and should generally be run by someone from either nursing or pastoral care, where there would be professional credentials in place. so this is at least as much a case of perception on my part and not hard facts. ck In a message dated 03/03/11 11:01:03 Central Standard Time, ln molino@... writes: Chuck why do you make that statement? Any reason you think this is pushed from the fire side? Granted it may well be but why based on the information presented so far to this point are you saying that? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Office) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. In a message dated 3/3/2011 10:46:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are pushing this... maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the subject? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (979) 412-0890 (Cell) (979) 690-7559 (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 my experience with CISM has been that the fire side seems to have pushed it more than the ambulance services. The hospital debriefings should already be covered under the M&M exclusion and should generally be run by someone from either nursing or pastoral care, where there would be professional credentials in place. so this is at least as much a case of perception on my part and not hard facts. ck In a message dated 03/03/11 11:01:03 Central Standard Time, ln molino@... writes: Chuck why do you make that statement? Any reason you think this is pushed from the fire side? Granted it may well be but why based on the information presented so far to this point are you saying that? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Office) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. In a message dated 3/3/2011 10:46:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are pushing this... maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the subject? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (979) 412-0890 (Cell) (979) 690-7559 (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 That's a good thing. Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM To: texasems-l Cc: Bledsoe Subject: CISM in a big way! As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. Just an FYI, y'all. Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 It's interesting that the HB 2040 doesn't mention training, credentialing or competencies of said Emergency Response Team Member, but rather... *(4) " Emergency response team member " means an individual providing critical incident stress management services or crisis response services, or both, who is designated by an appropriate state or local governmental unit to provide those services as a member of an organized team or in association with the governmental unit.* I'm sure it'll all be fleshed out going forward, but granting immunities without stipulating qualifications seems irrational. Bob > > > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd > like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree, Bob. Tabor Disaster Behavioral Health Services 206.5513 BB 801.9816 Bldg 634, 125-B www.dshs.state.tx.us/comprep/cism CISM in a big way! > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Chuck why do you make that statement? Any reason you think this is pushed from the fire side? Granted it may well be but why based on the information presented so far to this point are you saying that? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant LNMolino@... (Cell Phone) (Office) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. In a message dated 3/3/2011 10:46:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, krin135@... writes: there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are pushing this... maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the subject? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (979) 690-7559 (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as well as many of my personal interactions. OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes to participate they should have some protections afforded. Fire Away! Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as well as many of my personal interactions. OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes to participate they should have some protections afforded. Fire Away! Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Respectfully, what accepted qualifications currently exist for CISM providers? Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad > It's interesting that the HB 2040 doesn't mention training, credentialing or > competencies of said Emergency Response Team Member, but rather... > > > *(4) " Emergency response team member " means an individual providing > critical incident stress management services or crisis response services, or > both, who is designated by an appropriate state or local governmental unit > to provide those services as a member of an organized team or in association > with the governmental unit.* > > I'm sure it'll all be fleshed out going forward, but granting immunities > without stipulating qualifications seems irrational. > > Bob > > >> >> >> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just >> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to >> >> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd >> like to >> see what kind of protection is being offered. >> >> ck >> >> >> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >> rick.moore@... writes: >> >> That's a good thing. >> Rick >> >> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >> To: texasems-l >> Cc: Bledsoe >> Subject: CISM in a big way! >> >> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill >> >> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >> >> Just an FYI, y'all. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Respectfully, what accepted qualifications currently exist for CISM providers? Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad > It's interesting that the HB 2040 doesn't mention training, credentialing or > competencies of said Emergency Response Team Member, but rather... > > > *(4) " Emergency response team member " means an individual providing > critical incident stress management services or crisis response services, or > both, who is designated by an appropriate state or local governmental unit > to provide those services as a member of an organized team or in association > with the governmental unit.* > > I'm sure it'll all be fleshed out going forward, but granting immunities > without stipulating qualifications seems irrational. > > Bob > > >> >> >> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just >> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to >> >> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd >> like to >> see what kind of protection is being offered. >> >> ck >> >> >> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >> rick.moore@... writes: >> >> That's a good thing. >> Rick >> >> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >> To: texasems-l >> Cc: Bledsoe >> Subject: CISM in a big way! >> >> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill >> >> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >> >> Just an FYI, y'all. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad > I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as well as many of my personal interactions. > OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes to participate they should have some protections afforded. > Fire Away! > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > To: texasems-l > Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > Training Program Manager > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > Please excuse any typos. > (Cell) > (Office) > (Office Fax) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > > > > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > > > ck > > > > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > rick.moore@... writes: > > > > That's a good thing. > > Rick > > > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > To: texasems-l > > Cc: Bledsoe > > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > > > Wes Ogilvie > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings associated with. " Bob > > > I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What > concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. > > > But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. > > In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long > as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective > and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I > firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane > enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced > levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better > ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as > well as many of my personal interactions. > > OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you > can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes > to participate they should have some protections afforded. > > Fire Away! > > Rick > > > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > > To: texasems-l > > Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > I'm funny that way. > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > Training Program Manager > > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > Please excuse any typos. > > (Cell) > > (Office) > > (Office Fax) > > > > LNMolino@... > > Lou@... > > > > On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@... > wrote: > > > > > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > just > > > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > need to > > > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > I'd like to > > > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > > > > > ck > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > > rick.moore@... writes: > > > > > > That's a good thing. > > > Rick > > > > > > From: texasems-l > [mailto:texasems-l ] > On > > > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > > To: texasems-l > > > Cc: Bledsoe > > > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > > > > > > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House > Bill > > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > legal > > > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > > > > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > > > > > Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings associated with. " Bob > > > I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What > concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. > > > But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. > > In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long > as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective > and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I > firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane > enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced > levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better > ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as > well as many of my personal interactions. > > OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you > can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes > to participate they should have some protections afforded. > > Fire Away! > > Rick > > > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > > To: texasems-l > > Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > I'm funny that way. > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > Training Program Manager > > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > Please excuse any typos. > > (Cell) > > (Office) > > (Office Fax) > > > > LNMolino@... > > Lou@... > > > > On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@... > wrote: > > > > > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > just > > > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > need to > > > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > I'd like to > > > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > > > > > ck > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > > rick.moore@... writes: > > > > > > That's a good thing. > > > Rick > > > > > > From: texasems-l > [mailto:texasems-l ] > On > > > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > > To: texasems-l > > > Cc: Bledsoe > > > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > > > > > > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House > Bill > > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > legal > > > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > > > > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > > > > > Wes Ogilvie > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 In other words you're " assuming " and starting up the tired old " the fire service is responsible " triad without any factual basis??  Greg Higgins > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 In other words you're " assuming " and starting up the tired old " the fire service is responsible " triad without any factual basis??  Greg Higgins > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree Wes. One’s participation in CISM should not be mandatory and CISM providers are taught that it is to be voluntary and not force someone unwilling to attend. Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:07 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. Wes Ogilvie Sent from my iPad On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:02, rick.moore@... wrote: > I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as well as many of my personal interactions. > OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes to participate they should have some protections afforded. > Fire Away! > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > To: texasems-l > Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > Training Program Manager > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > Please excuse any typos. > (Cell) > (Office) > (Office Fax) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@... wrote: > > > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > > > ck > > > > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > rick.moore@... writes: > > > > That's a good thing. > > Rick > > > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > To: texasems-l > > Cc: Bledsoe > > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > > > Wes Ogilvie > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Fair statement however the fire service has on a large part moved away from CISM per se and more fiestas the Psychological First Aid model. I just completed the Courage to be Safe T-t-T and CISM isn't mentioned but the idea of getting LODD Survivors to include FD and Agency Members appropriate counseling post an LODD is stressed. For the record I fully support the idea of getting help to a Responder who needs help post any incident that may adversely affect them in ant way physically or otherwise. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > my experience with CISM has been that the fire side seems to have pushed it > more than the ambulance services. > > The hospital debriefings should already be covered under the M&M exclusion > and should generally be run by someone from either nursing or pastoral > care, where there would be professional credentials in place. > > so this is at least as much a case of perception on my part and not hard > facts. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 11:01:03 Central Standard Time, ln > molino@... writes: > > Chuck why do you make that statement? > > Any reason you think this is pushed from the fire side? > > Granted it may well be but why based on the information presented so far > to this point are you saying that? > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection > Consultant > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > (Office) > (Office Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and > the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with > unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended > only > for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential > materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the > public > domain by the original author. > > > In a message dated 3/3/2011 10:46:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, > krin135@... writes: > > there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are > pushing > this... > > maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the > subject? > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, > lnmolino@... writes: > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > I'm funny that way. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > Training Program Manager > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > Please excuse any typos. > (979) 412-0890 (Cell) > (979) 690-7559 (Office) > (Office Fax) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > > >> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > just >> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > need > to >> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as > other > >> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > I'd like to >> see what kind of protection is being offered. >> >> ck >> >> >> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >> rick.moore@... writes: >> >> That's a good thing. >> Rick >> >> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] > On >> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >> To: texasems-l >> Cc: Bledsoe >> Subject: CISM in a big way! >> >> >> >> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when > the >> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, > House > > Bill >> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for > CISM >> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing > some > legal >> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >> >> Just an FYI, y'all. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Fair statement however the fire service has on a large part moved away from CISM per se and more fiestas the Psychological First Aid model. I just completed the Courage to be Safe T-t-T and CISM isn't mentioned but the idea of getting LODD Survivors to include FD and Agency Members appropriate counseling post an LODD is stressed. For the record I fully support the idea of getting help to a Responder who needs help post any incident that may adversely affect them in ant way physically or otherwise. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > my experience with CISM has been that the fire side seems to have pushed it > more than the ambulance services. > > The hospital debriefings should already be covered under the M&M exclusion > and should generally be run by someone from either nursing or pastoral > care, where there would be professional credentials in place. > > so this is at least as much a case of perception on my part and not hard > facts. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 11:01:03 Central Standard Time, ln > molino@... writes: > > Chuck why do you make that statement? > > Any reason you think this is pushed from the fire side? > > Granted it may well be but why based on the information presented so far > to this point are you saying that? > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection > Consultant > > LNMolino@... > > (Cell Phone) > (Office) > (Office Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds > discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962) > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and > the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with > unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended > only > for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential > materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the > public > domain by the original author. > > > In a message dated 3/3/2011 10:46:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, > krin135@... writes: > > there is that...but I'm betting that it's the fire officers who are > pushing > this... > > maybe you all need to get Dr. Gist down from KC to testify on the > subject? > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:43:27 Central Standard Time, > lnmolino@... writes: > > I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > I'm funny that way. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > Training Program Manager > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > Please excuse any typos. > (979) 412-0890 (Cell) > (979) 690-7559 (Office) > (Office Fax) > > LNMolino@... > Lou@... > > > >> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > just >> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > need > to >> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as > other > >> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > I'd like to >> see what kind of protection is being offered. >> >> ck >> >> >> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >> rick.moore@... writes: >> >> That's a good thing. >> Rick >> >> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] > On >> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >> To: texasems-l >> Cc: Bledsoe >> Subject: CISM in a big way! >> >> >> >> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when > the >> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, > House > > Bill >> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for > CISM >> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing > some > legal >> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >> >> Just an FYI, y'all. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Well said young Wes! However does a bill like this if it becomes law in some way legitimize the practice even if the practice were to be proven wrong? Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. > > But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. > > In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as well as many of my personal interactions. >> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes to participate they should have some protections afforded. >> Fire Away! >> Rick >> >> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >> To: texasems-l >> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >> >> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. >> >> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >> Training Program Manager >> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >> Please excuse any typos. >> (Cell) >> (Office) >> (Office Fax) >> >> LNMolino@... >> Lou@... >> >> >> >>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just >>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to >>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to >>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>> >>> ck >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>> rick.moore@... writes: >>> >>> That's a good thing. >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Cc: Bledsoe >>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> >>> >>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill >>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal >>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>> >>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>> >>> Wes Ogilvie >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > associated with. " > Bob > > >> >> >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. >> >> >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. >> >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as >> well as many of my personal interactions. >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. >>> Fire Away! >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but >> I'm funny that way. >>> >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >>> Training Program Manager >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >>> Please excuse any typos. >>> (Cell) >>> (Office) >>> (Office Fax) >>> >>> LNMolino@... >>> Lou@... >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@... >> wrote: >>> >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, >> just >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews >> need to >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but >> I'd like to >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>>> rick.moore@... writes: >>>> >>>> That's a good thing. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> From: texasems-l >> [mailto:texasems-l ] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>>> To: texasems-l >>>> Cc: Bledsoe >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 While some like cism, I detest it. I was involved in an mvc where a death occurred and essentially was told I had to go to a cism meeting, being told others from the incident would attend. However, I was the only participant amd felt like I was under a microscope and bombarded with lots of questions. CISM may have a function with some providers, but not with me. A horrible experience. Jb Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > associated with. " > Bob > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Wes Ogilvie wrote: > >> >> >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. >> >> >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. >> >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as >> well as many of my personal interactions. >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. >>> Fire Away! >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but >> I'm funny that way. >>> >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >>> Training Program Manager >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >>> Please excuse any typos. >>> (Cell) >>> (Office) >>> (Office Fax) >>> >>> LNMolino@...<mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com> >>> Lou@...<mailto:Lou%40fireworld.com> >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@...<mailto:krin135%40aol.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, >> just >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews >> need to >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but >> I'd like to >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>>> rick.moore@...<mailto:rick.moore%40stdavids.com> writes: >>>> >>>> That's a good thing. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>>> To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Cc: Bledsoe >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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