Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I know. Some people will always insist on believing in a belief. It's just the way some things go. However, when those beliefs are expressed as proposed legislative language, then it goes beyond individual beliefs and is transposed on everyone. You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.... Lou@... > CISM will continue to be a t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I know. Some people will always insist on believing in a belief. It's just the way some things go. However, when those beliefs are expressed as proposed legislative language, then it goes beyond individual beliefs and is transposed on everyone. You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc.... Lou@... > CISM will continue to be a t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yep and this is why I have an issue with legislation such as this. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I know. Some people will always insist on believing in a belief. It's just > the way some things go. However, when those beliefs are expressed as > proposed legislative language, then it goes beyond individual beliefs and is > transposed on everyone. > > > > > > You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's > cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and > everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & > Safety Specialists, Inc.... > Lou@... > > > CISM > will continue to be a t... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yep and this is why I have an issue with legislation such as this. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I know. Some people will always insist on believing in a belief. It's just > the way some things go. However, when those beliefs are expressed as > proposed legislative language, then it goes beyond individual beliefs and is > transposed on everyone. > > > > > > You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's > cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and > everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & > Safety Specialists, Inc.... > Lou@... > > > CISM > will continue to be a t... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Even will tell you forced sessions are bad. So much so that they've become ugly to a point in some tales. Anecdotally of course. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > While some like cism, I detest it. I was involved in an mvc where a death occurred and essentially was told I had to go to a cism meeting, being told others from the incident would attend. However, I was the only participant amd felt like I was under a microscope and bombarded with lots of questions. CISM may have a function with some providers, but not with me. A horrible experience. > > Jb > > > > Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > Training Program Manager > > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > Please excuse any typos. > > (Cell) > > (Office) > > (Office Fax) > > > > LNMolino@... > > Lou@... > > > > > > > > > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > > > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > > > associated with. " > > > Bob > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Wes Ogilvie wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What > > >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. > > >> > > >> > > >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. > > >> > > >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long > > >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. > > >> > > >> Wes Ogilvie > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPad > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective > > >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I > > >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane > > >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced > > >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better > > >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as > > >> well as many of my personal interactions. > > >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you > > >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes > > >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. > > >>> Fire Away! > > >>> Rick > > >>> > > >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > > >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > > >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > > >>> To: texasems-l > > >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > >>> > > >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > > >> I'm funny that way. > > >>> > > >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > >>> Training Program Manager > > >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > >>> Please excuse any typos. > > >>> (Cell) > > >>> (Office) > > >>> (Office Fax) > > >>> > > >>> LNMolino@...<mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com> > > >>> Lou@...<mailto:Lou%40fireworld.com> > > >>> > > >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@...<mailto:krin135%40aol.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > > >> just > > >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > > >> need to > > >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > > >> I'd like to > > >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. > > >>>> > > >>>> ck > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > >>>> rick.moore@...<mailto:rick.moore%40stdavids.com> writes: > > >>>> > > >>>> That's a good thing. > > >>>> Rick > > >>>> > > >>>> From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] > > >> On > > >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > >>>> To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>> Cc: Bledsoe > > >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House > > >> Bill > > >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > > >> legal > > >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > >>>> > > >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wes Ogilvie > > >>>> > > >>>> Sent from my iPad > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Even will tell you forced sessions are bad. So much so that they've become ugly to a point in some tales. Anecdotally of course. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > While some like cism, I detest it. I was involved in an mvc where a death occurred and essentially was told I had to go to a cism meeting, being told others from the incident would attend. However, I was the only participant amd felt like I was under a microscope and bombarded with lots of questions. CISM may have a function with some providers, but not with me. A horrible experience. > > Jb > > > > Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. > > > > Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > Training Program Manager > > Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > Please excuse any typos. > > (Cell) > > (Office) > > (Office Fax) > > > > LNMolino@... > > Lou@... > > > > > > > > > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > > > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > > > associated with. " > > > Bob > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Wes Ogilvie wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What > > >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. > > >> > > >> > > >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. > > >> > > >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long > > >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. > > >> > > >> Wes Ogilvie > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPad > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective > > >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I > > >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane > > >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced > > >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better > > >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as > > >> well as many of my personal interactions. > > >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you > > >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes > > >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. > > >>> Fire Away! > > >>> Rick > > >>> > > >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > > >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. > > >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM > > >>> To: texasems-l > > >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! > > >>> > > >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but > > >> I'm funny that way. > > >>> > > >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET > > >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI > > >>> Training Program Manager > > >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. > > >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. > > >>> Please excuse any typos. > > >>> (Cell) > > >>> (Office) > > >>> (Office Fax) > > >>> > > >>> LNMolino@...<mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com> > > >>> Lou@...<mailto:Lou%40fireworld.com> > > >>> > > >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@...<mailto:krin135%40aol.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, > > >> just > > >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews > > >> need to > > >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > > >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > > >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but > > >> I'd like to > > >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. > > >>>> > > >>>> ck > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > > >>>> rick.moore@...<mailto:rick.moore%40stdavids.com> writes: > > >>>> > > >>>> That's a good thing. > > >>>> Rick > > >>>> > > >>>> From: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> > > >> [mailto:texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] > > >> On > > >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > > >>>> To: texasems-l <mailto:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com> > > >>>> Cc: Bledsoe > > >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > > >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House > > >> Bill > > >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > > >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some > > >> legal > > >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > >>>> > > >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wes Ogilvie > > >>>> > > >>>> Sent from my iPad > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Joanna, While that may have been labeled as a CISM, it wasn’t. That doesn’t follow any of the principles of CISM that I have been taught or participated in. Participants should not be required to attend nor should those who attend willingly be required to speak if they chose not to. Sorry you had that experience under the guise of CISM. Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Joanna Burgan Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:49 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! While some like cism, I detest it. I was involved in an mvc where a death occurred and essentially was told I had to go to a cism meeting, being told others from the incident would attend. However, I was the only participant amd felt like I was under a microscope and bombarded with lots of questions. CISM may have a function with some providers, but not with me. A horrible experience. Jb Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint On Mar 3, 2011 10:42 AM, Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote: You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:12, Bob Kellow wrote: > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > associated with. " > Bob > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Wes Ogilvie wrote: > >> >> >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. >> >> >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. >> >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:02, rick.moore@... wrote: >> >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as >> well as many of my personal interactions. >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. >>> Fire Away! >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but >> I'm funny that way. >>> >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >>> Training Program Manager >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >>> Please excuse any typos. >>> (Cell) >>> (Office) >>> (Office Fax) >>> >>> LNMolino@...<mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com> >>> Lou@...<mailto:Lou%40fireworld.com> >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@...<mailto:krin135%40aol.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, >> just >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews >> need to >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but >> I'd like to >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>>> rick.moore@...<mailto:rick.moore%4\ 0stdavids.com> writes: >>>> >>>> That's a good thing. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> From: texasems-l <mailto:texase\ ms-l%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:texasems-l <mailt\ o:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>>> To: texasems-l <mailto:texase\ ms-l%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Cc: Bledsoe >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Joanna, While that may have been labeled as a CISM, it wasn’t. That doesn’t follow any of the principles of CISM that I have been taught or participated in. Participants should not be required to attend nor should those who attend willingly be required to speak if they chose not to. Sorry you had that experience under the guise of CISM. Rick From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Joanna Burgan Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:49 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! While some like cism, I detest it. I was involved in an mvc where a death occurred and essentially was told I had to go to a cism meeting, being told others from the incident would attend. However, I was the only participant amd felt like I was under a microscope and bombarded with lots of questions. CISM may have a function with some providers, but not with me. A horrible experience. Jb Sent from my Palm Pixi on the Now Network from Sprint On Mar 3, 2011 10:42 AM, Louis N. Molino, Sr. wrote: You sure Bob? Even with a fair amount of evidence that it's not what it's cracked up to be the believers ate still just that and damn you me and everyone else who days otherwise even with evidence. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:12, Bob Kellow wrote: > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > associated with. " > Bob > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Wes Ogilvie wrote: > >> >> >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. >> >> >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. >> >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:02, rick.moore@... wrote: >> >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as >> well as many of my personal interactions. >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. >>> Fire Away! >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but >> I'm funny that way. >>> >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >>> Training Program Manager >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >>> Please excuse any typos. >>> (Cell) >>> (Office) >>> (Office Fax) >>> >>> LNMolino@...<mailto:LNMolino%40aol.com> >>> Lou@...<mailto:Lou%40fireworld.com> >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@...<mailto:krin135%40aol.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, >> just >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews >> need to >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but >> I'd like to >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>>> rick.moore@...<mailto:rick.moore%4\ 0stdavids.com> writes: >>>> >>>> That's a good thing. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> From: texasems-l <mailto:texase\ ms-l%40yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:texasems-l <mailt\ o:texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com>] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>>> To: texasems-l <mailto:texase\ ms-l%40yahoogroups.com> >>>> Cc: Bledsoe >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hi Louis, I, too, have looked extensively at CISM and find no evidence supporting its efficacy. Is CISM 'MAST for the Mind'? Mike Grill MS, NREMT-P mtgrill@... From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:43 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hi Louis, I, too, have looked extensively at CISM and find no evidence supporting its efficacy. Is CISM 'MAST for the Mind'? Mike Grill MS, NREMT-P mtgrill@... From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:43 AM To: texasems-l Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but I'm funny that way. Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI Training Program Manager Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. Please excuse any typos. (Cell) (Office) (Office Fax) LNMolino@... Lou@... > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 it is my perception, yes. I have seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise, as there are few other 500 pound Gorillas in the room with enough pull to get the attention of any legislature on this matter. CISM is not the sort of thing to catch the attention of the nurses, physicians, chiropractors or even the pshrinks...so who is left? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 20:54:16 Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: In other words you're " assuming " and starting up the tired old " the fire service is responsible " triad without any factual basis?? Greg Higgins > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 it is my perception, yes. I have seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise, as there are few other 500 pound Gorillas in the room with enough pull to get the attention of any legislature on this matter. CISM is not the sort of thing to catch the attention of the nurses, physicians, chiropractors or even the pshrinks...so who is left? ck In a message dated 03/03/11 20:54:16 Central Standard Time, gs.higgins@... writes: In other words you're " assuming " and starting up the tired old " the fire service is responsible " triad without any factual basis?? Greg Higgins > I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, just > like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews need to > be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM > providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other > psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but I'd like to > see what kind of protection is being offered. > > ck > > > In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, > rick.moore@... writes: > > That's a good thing. > Rick > > From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On > Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM > To: texasems-l > Cc: Bledsoe > Subject: CISM in a big way! > > > > As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the > Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House Bill > 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM > sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some legal > protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. > > Just an FYI, y'all. > > Wes Ogilvie > > Sent from my iPad > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 There's nothing out there that application of PASG and a Hare Traction Splint and administration of 3 liters of Ringers won't fix. CISD indeed! Humpff. Next thing you know they'll saying that rotating tourniquets don't work. Where's my jaw screw? GG CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 There's nothing out there that application of PASG and a Hare Traction Splint and administration of 3 liters of Ringers won't fix. CISD indeed! Humpff. Next thing you know they'll saying that rotating tourniquets don't work. Where's my jaw screw? GG CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Forget replacing " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings associated with " CISM -- let's try and replace that phrase in EMS as a whole. Alyssa Woods, NREMT-B Sent from the itty bitty keyboard on my iPhone > CISM will continue to be a third rail of discussion until such time that we > can replace the term " believe in " with " accept the empirical findings > associated with. " > Bob > > >> >> >> I'm enough of a pragmatist to accept that CISM may work for some. What >> concerns me is that some force others into CISM sessions against their will. >> >> >> But then, I also don't believe in chiropractic. >> >> In short, I'm usually ok with you believing whatever you'd like to, so long >> as I'm not forced to believe it too - or subsidize it. >> >> Wes Ogilvie >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> I agree that there is not much scientific evidence that CISM is effective >> and I also know that most on this list do not believe in it, however I >> firmly believe that had it not been for CISM I would not still be sane >> enough to work in EMS or Nursing. I have had both the basic and advanced >> levels of CISM training and found that to be valuable providing me better >> ways of communicating with people involved in these types of incidents as >> well as many of my personal interactions. >>> OK at this point you can all start telling me what crap CISM is and you >> can label me as a nut, but I believe that it has value and if someone wishes >> to participate they should have some protections afforded. >>> Fire Away! >>> Rick >>> >>> From: texasems-l [mailto:texasems-l ] On >> Behalf Of Louis N. Molino, Sr. >>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:43 AM >>> To: texasems-l >>> Subject: Re: CISM in a big way! >>> >>> I'd like to see some decent evidence of any value to the CISM model but >> I'm funny that way. >>> >>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET >>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI >>> Training Program Manager >>> Fire & Safety Specialists, Inc. >>> Typed by my fingers on my iPhone. >>> Please excuse any typos. >>> (Cell) >>> (Office) >>> (Office Fax) >>> >>> LNMolino@... >>> Lou@... >>> >>> On Mar 3, 2011, at 10:28, krin135@... >> wrote: >>> >>>> I can see the need to exempt the sessions from the Open Meetings Act, >> just >>>> like peer review and other forms of Mortality and Morbidity reviews >> need to >>>> be exempt....but I'm leary of legal protection from lawsuits for CISM >>>> providers. I can see where they might get the same protection as other >>>> psychological counselors (if they have the same qualifications), but >> I'd like to >>>> see what kind of protection is being offered. >>>> >>>> ck >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 03/03/11 10:19:37 Central Standard Time, >>>> rick.moore@... writes: >>>> >>>> That's a good thing. >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> From: texasems-l >> [mailto:texasems-l ] >> On >>>> Behalf Of Wes Ogilvie >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:17 AM >>>> To: texasems-l >>>> Cc: Bledsoe >>>> Subject: CISM in a big way! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As many a political pundit has said, no child or woman is safe when the >>>> Texas Legislature is in session. Two CISM bills have been filed, House >> Bill >>>> 2040 and Senate Bill 1065, which create some legal protections for CISM >>>> sessions, exempting them from the open meetings act and providing some >> legal >>>> protection from lawsuit for CISM providers. >>>> >>>> Just an FYI, y'all. >>>> >>>> Wes Ogilvie >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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