“certification� and “licensure� (WAS Re: FW: Oil Spill Operations)

[Guest guest]

OK you make some good points.

I need to read the NREMT paper you cite as I have not done so.

Any of our JD types care to chime in with an opinion?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection Consultant

LNMolino@...

(Cell Phone)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

" Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

In a message dated 6/26/2010 7:55:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

ajl442@... writes:

I will have to disagree with you here. Every state licenses EMS

professionals no matter what they call it. When a govermental agency, in

this case the state, gives you the authority to do something that the

general public is not allowed to do it is a license. The states may call

it

a certification but in a legal stance it is a license no matter what it is

called.

The National Registry has a position on this issue:

https://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/Legal_Opinion.asp

*The Legal Differences Between Certification and Licensure*

Although the general public continues to use the terms interchangeably,

there are important functional distinctions between the two concepts.

The federal government has defined “certification†as the process by

which a

non-governmental organization grants recognition to an individual who has

met predetermined qualifications specified by that organization.1

Similarly,

the National Commission for Certifying Agencies has recently defined

certification as “a process, often voluntary, by which individuals who have

demonstrated the level of knowledge and skill required in the profession,

occupation, role, or skill are identified to the public and other

stakeholders.â€2

Accordingly, there are three hallmarks of certification (as functionally

defined).

Certification is:

1.

voluntary process;

2.

by a private organization;

3.

for the purpose of providing the public information on those individuals

who have successfully completed the certification process (usually

entailing

successful completion of educational and testing requirements) and

demonstrated their ability to perform their profession competently.

Nearly every profession certifies its members in some way, but a prime

example is medicine. Private certifying boards certify physician

specialists. Although certification may assist a physician in obtaining

hospital privileges, or participating as a preferred provider within a

health insurer’s network, it does not affect his legal authority to

practice

medicine. For instance, a surgeon can practice medicine in any state in

which he is licensed regardless of whether or not he is certified by the

American Board of Surgery.

Licensure, on the other hand, is the state’s grant of legal authority,

pursuant to the state’s police powers, to practice a profession within a

designated scope of practice. Under the licensure system, states define, by

statute, the tasks and function or scope of practice of a profession and

provide that these tasks may be legally performed only by those who are

licensed. As such, licensure prohibits anyone from practicing the

profession

who is not licensed, regardless of whether or not the individual has been

certified by a private organization.

Confusion between the terms “certification†and “licensure†arises

because

many states call their licensure processes “certification,†particularly

when they incorporate the standards and requirements of private certifying

bodies in their licensing statutes and require that an individual be

certified in order to have state authorization to practice. The use of

certification by the National Registry by some states as a basis for

granting individuals the right to practice as EMTs and calling the

authorization granted “certification†is an example of this practice.

Nevertheless, certification by the National Registry, by itself, does not

give an individual the right to practice.

Regardless of what descriptive title is used by a state agency, if an

occupation has a statutorily or regulatorily defined scope of practice and

only individuals authorized by the state can perform those functions and

activities, the authorized individuals are licensed. It does not matter if

the authorization is called something other than a license; the

authorization has the legal effect of a license.

In sum, the National Registry is a private certifying organization. The

various state offices of EMS or like agencies serve as the state licensing

agencies. Certification by the National Registry is a distinct process

from

licensure; and it serves the important independent purpose of identifying

for the public, state licensure agencies and employers, those individuals

who have successfully completed the Registry’s educational requirements and

demonstrated their skills and abilities in the mandated examinations.

Furthermore, the National Registry’s tracking of adverse licensure actions

and criminal convictions provides an important source of information which

protects the public and aids in the mobility of EMT providers.

1 U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, *Report on Licensure

and Related Health Personnel Credentialing* (Washington, D.C.: June, 1971

p.

7).

2 NCCA Standards for the Accreditation of Certification Programs, approved

by the member organizations of the National Commission for Certifying

Agencies in February, 2002 (effective January, 2003).

>

>

> Every EMS person in Texas practices without a license since we are not

> licensed professionals and that would include LP's. Further more I think

> tat

> is true in many if not most states but it may that some states do indeed

> licenses folks but they are the exception.

>

> I'll let the JD's on the list extrapolate if they choose as I would not

> want to be accused of practicing law without a licence to but it isn't

> semantics it's more fact.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> Freelance Consultant/Trainer/Author/Journalist/Fire Protection

Consultant

>

> LNMolino@...

>

> (Cell Phone)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> " Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds

> discuss people " Eleanor Roosevelt - US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

>

> In a message dated 6/25/2010 8:54:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> ajl442@... writes:

>

> The Governor issued an executive order on June 4th that waived the

> requirement for National Registry certification, however an out of state

> EMS

> professional must still apply for reciprocity. Practicing as an EMS

> professional without a license is against the law in every state

including

> Louisiana.

>

> I would caution any EMS professional who practices exclusively outside

of

> any state without a state license. The National Registry is not a license

> to practice and there is a statement to this on the back of every

National

> Registry certification card.

>

> An attorney friend of mine has a technical term for someone practicing

> without a license, especially medics who work offshore. The term is

> " payday " .

>

> If you know of anyone who is practicing without a license I encourage you

> to

> report it to the proper authorities.

>

> AJL

> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM, A Austin

> abaustin+yahoogroups@... <

> abaustin%2Byahoogroups@... >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > I don't know how Acadia (no 'r') is handling things, because in a

> > 'disaster' situation, the rules change quite a bit.

> >

> > Technically, to work within the State of Louisiana, you're supposed to

> have

> > a certification from the state. I know of more then a few people who

> don't

> > and are working onshore jobs related to oil cleanup, so I'm not sure if

> this

> > was officially waived or if noone gives a damn at the moment.

> Reciprocity is

> > just a ticket-punch from what I can tell if you hold registry anyway

(I

> > could be wrong, I'm not certified in LA.)

> >

> > Offshore, it doesn't matter, but most companies limit themselves to

> > National Registry only. The only actual standard is a USCG Certificate

of

> > Registry, and Paramedics aren't eligible for that. Therefore, the only

> thing

> > that matters is what the contract or the company suggest, along with

> " best

> > practices. "

> >

> > So, if you're interested, just apply. They were hurting for people, so

I

> > don't expect they'll give you any trouble unless they got all the spots

> > filled. Also, you might want to find out what other companies are

paying,

> > $19/hr isn't terribly competitive, IMO, especially since this is all

> coming

> > out of BP's pocket anyway.

> >

> > Austin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Let's try that again. email posted by Brad Sattler regarding the oil

> > spill

> > > operations. If someone could clarify if the request was specific to

> Texas

> > > EMS or out of state responders as well.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:03 PM

> > > To: texasems-l

<%27texasems-l%40yahoogroups.com><%27texasems-l%

> 40yahoogroups.com>'

>

> > > Subject: FW: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Folks, I am looking for information regarding the email posted by

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: JMeere [mailto:JMeere@...

40cox.net>]

>

> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:59 PM

> > > To: jeff.johnson@...

<%27jeff.johnson%40acadian.com><%27jeff.johnson%

> 40acadian.com>'

>

> > > Subject: Oil Spill Operations

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mr. ,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am a Nationally Certified Paramedic residing in Arizona and looking

> for

> > > short term work at various Oil Spill locations. I am employed full

time

> > but

> > > my employer may provide her blessing to work for your company at

> > > predetermined times.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do have a few questions of you:

> > >

> > > 1. Workman's compensation available while serving with Arcadian?

> > >

> > > 2. What are the deployment/redeployment specifics? By flight? By

> > > privately owned vehicle? Compensation?

> > >

> > > 3. Would we be considered to be under the employment of Arcadian or

> > > FEMA?

> > >

> > > 4. Does the week long deployment include travel time or does it begin

> > > upon arrival to assignment?

> > >

> > > 5. Will there be any advanced training courses in conjunction with

> > > deployment?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > J. Meere

> > >

> > > CEP, Arizona Ambulance

> > >

> > > U.S. Army, Retired

> > >

> > > JMeere@...

>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------------------------------

>

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