Re: Avosoy/muscles-potassium

[Guest guest]

Just a note of caution...based on personal experience. If you're

taking an ACE inhibitor for blood pressure control, DO NOT TAKE ANY

POTASSIUM without talking to your prescribing doc. A lot of the

folks in this group (my self included) are of an age in which

hypertension is a reality.

As ever... caution. That's the reason I didn't mention potassium

earlier the cramps discussion.

Alan

> > Hi Joyce,

> >

> > In a possible vain effort to explain what I think I learnt about

> muscles

> > last weekend I will try here as it has some relevance to what is

> bothering

> > you........

> >

> > Firstly getting muscles going again has some dependance on the

> starting

> > state thereof. i.e. Your shoulder/arm muscles may be fairly fit

> and okay so

> > you can help move things about whereas the leg muscles are not

> great and

> > will react quite differently to levels of use. Apparently upper

> muscles

> > remain more generally fit than lower muscles which doesn't help

> > either.......

> >

> > When we use a muscle anywhere in the body we do so by setting off

a

> chemical

> > reaction which incidently is very calcium dependant...........

When

> we are

> > talking muscles being forced to go beyond what that particular

> muscle

> > considers 'normal' right then - and the unfit 'normal' is

different

> from

> > more mobile 'normal' so we are talking relatives here - we often

> cause minor

> > stress damage to said muscle....... That is responsible for the

> > soreness............ that is chemical based too............. and

> said

> > soreness has something to do with the calcium leaking out through

> the stress

> > damage and creating mini havoc to the other cells...........

> >

> > The soreness

> > goes when the cleanup cells have eliminated the leakage material,

> repaired

> > the damage etc.......... as I understand it potassium plays a big

> role here

> > and why bananas are often eaten by super athletes...........and

> usually the

> > repair job gives you a marginally stronger muscle, so you can use

> it to

> > that level without it getting sore again i.e. you will be able to

> walk a

> > tiny bit further without encountering soreness.

> >

> > Now in bodies such as mine where atrophy is rampant, i.e. normal

is

> pretty

> > unfit.......... the actual blood vessels etc necessary to go in

and

> do the

> > repairs etc are not necessarily working too well either.........

> i.e. they

> > have gone shrunken with lack of use........... So soreness

doesn't

> vanish

> > as easily as it does in the relatively fitter.........

> >

> > Now at the same time if one stretches or massages said muscle you

> apparently

> > can force the calcium back into where it should be, aid to move

> some now

> > dead cells out into the blood stream, get more blood moving to

site

> etc and

> > that is why stretching helps relieve the soreness...............

> but of

> > course even that happening is still going to be a little

dependant

> on how

> > many well working clean up vessels are functioning in the

> area..........

> >

> > The catch 22 of a human body is that this process seems to be how

> muscles

> > are built up.......... and that they will only build up if one

keeps

> > subjecting them to forces above what they are being maintained

> at....... and

> > to even keep them maintained we have to keep a certain level of

> pressure on

> > them with daily living, walking etc........... leave off that

> pressure and

> > muscles fairly quickly appear to decide to down tools.........

> Anyone who

> > teaches can probably think of this as kids working in a

> class..........

> > leave off the pressure and there isn't much left to call on by

way

> of

> > cooperation.........

> >

> > When I first started using mine again I had a lot of funny weak

> feelings,

> > cramps etc...... With my little bit of maybe misguided knowledge

I

> would say

> > that some of this is because the firing processes were not

> adequate, the

> > body had difficulties moving the necessary chemicals along

channels

> because

> > of lack of use - so not enough was there for the amount of use I

> wanted the

> > muscles to do, and there wasn't enough healthy clean up channels

> open and

> > operating...... It sounds like at least some of your leg/lower

> back muscles

> > were in that atrophied state post op for them to be feeling weak,

> cramping

> > etc. now.

> >

> > Getting from that sort of state to a fairly normally operating

> state takes

> > time and some degree of patience........... I now can see that

> doing it in

> > gradual fashion is far better than rushing at it as

well...........

> which I

> > was inclinded to do first off.......... For that tends to create

> too much

> > soreness, too much for the still not too well functioning clean

up

> brigade

> > to handle - so too much soreness, stiffness etc for too

> long.............. A

> > bodies instinct is to rebuild but there are a heap of variables

in

> the rate

> > as I now appreciate...........a major one being what you consider

> normal and

> > what I consider normal.......... i.e. are we talking getting sore

> after a 3

> > mile hike or sore after a half mile one etc.

> >

> > If that is any help whatever and if there are others who can

> correct that

> > please do so............. i.e. I need to pass this

> course........smile.

> >

> > Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02

> >

> >

> > > & Alan -- thanks for the feedback. I see, on Dr Theo's

> website,

> > that

> > > there is an Avosoy coming in August -- that also contains

> chondrioton.

> > > Isn't chondroiton the " repair " part of the formula?? Anyway,

> I've order

> > > more and cannot wait for it to get here. did you do any

> sort of

> > > stretching/exercise on your muscles or was this just not a

> problem for

> > you?

> > > I swear, I get discouraged when I try walking and end up in

such

> a muscle

> > > mess. My last project was helping a friend rebuild porch,

deck,

> and

> > steps.

> > > I didn't seize up at all. But walking? Everytime. And hints,

> spells or

> > > incantations you can suggest would be appreciated. Joyce (Dr

> Gross, LHR,

> > > 2/2/04)

> > >

> > > sungold518@e...

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi...below is the address of the website that should give you

eveything you need to know about ACE inhibitors and potassium.

http://www.amda.com/m3/ace_potassium.htm

They talk specifically about supplments, so I don't know if organic

sources like bananas would also be a problem. But my understanding

(given that I only know what I read of what smarter people write) is

that ACE inhibitors have what they call a " potassium sparing "

function, which means, I think, that more potassium stays in your

body longer than it should...and, I believe, this is a concern

because it might cause some organ damage.

If there's a doc in the hippy house any time soon, he/she might make

this all more clear. I have only recently learned that there's a new

generation of ACE Inhibitors (I believe they are creatively called

ACE-2 inhibitors. Again, I hope a doc will put me right, if this is

wrong... )

All the best...

Alan

> > > Hey Edith! Just want to complement you on that outstanding

> > summary!

> > > WOW! You touched on all of the points that I had been thinking

> > > of ...bananas/potassium, stretching, etc....Thank you! I think

> > > you're going to be the valedictorian in your class! Susie in

> > Memphis

[Guest guest]

> Steve,

>

> You're right about the new generation of Angiotensin drugs.

Well, a little over three years ago I had the nearly fatal

" opportunity " to learn an awful lot about hypertension.

Steve (bilat C+ 4/20/04, Amstutz)

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Many thanks and yes well on reading the reference one wouldn't really be

wanting to take any potassium supplements with such a drug........

This sort of highlights the interesting issue of just what is safe to put in

a human body at any given time. I was reading yesterday that now they are

telling women who have either had breast cancer or have a high possibility

thereof to stay away from soy products............The high estogen

producing tendencies of soy being the hassle........

This here old body of ours is a fine line chemical balance it seems and

keeping it in good shape the challenge.

Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02

> Hi...below is the address of the website that should give you

> eveything you need to know about ACE inhibitors and potassium.

>

> http://www.amda.com/m3/ace_potassium.htm

>

> They talk specifically about supplments, so I don't know if organic

> sources like bananas would also be a problem. But my understanding

> (given that I only know what I read of what smarter people write) is

> that ACE inhibitors have what they call a " potassium sparing "

> function, which means, I think, that more potassium stays in your

> body longer than it should...and, I believe, this is a concern

> because it might cause some organ damage.

>

> If there's a doc in the hippy house any time soon, he/she might make

> this all more clear. I have only recently learned that there's a new

> generation of ACE Inhibitors (I believe they are creatively called

> ACE-2 inhibitors. Again, I hope a doc will put me right, if this is

> wrong... )

>

> All the best...

> Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Many thanks and yes well on reading the reference one wouldn't really be

wanting to take any potassium supplements with such a drug........

This sort of highlights the interesting issue of just what is safe to put in

a human body at any given time. I was reading yesterday that now they are

telling women who have either had breast cancer or have a high possibility

thereof to stay away from soy products............The high estogen

producing tendencies of soy being the hassle........

This here old body of ours is a fine line chemical balance it seems and

keeping it in good shape the challenge.

Edith LBHR Dr. L Walter Syd Aust 8/02

> Hi...below is the address of the website that should give you

> eveything you need to know about ACE inhibitors and potassium.

>

> http://www.amda.com/m3/ace_potassium.htm

>

> They talk specifically about supplments, so I don't know if organic

> sources like bananas would also be a problem. But my understanding

> (given that I only know what I read of what smarter people write) is

> that ACE inhibitors have what they call a " potassium sparing "

> function, which means, I think, that more potassium stays in your

> body longer than it should...and, I believe, this is a concern

> because it might cause some organ damage.

>

> If there's a doc in the hippy house any time soon, he/she might make

> this all more clear. I have only recently learned that there's a new

> generation of ACE Inhibitors (I believe they are creatively called

> ACE-2 inhibitors. Again, I hope a doc will put me right, if this is

> wrong... )

>

> All the best...

> Alan

[Guest guest]

Edith,

On the X-Files, they had it right: " The truth is out there " .

Sometimes, though, it's damned hard figure where " there " really is...

or even to guess how far out there " there " might be.

Glad the reference was of value. True, in its prime the body is in

fine chemical balance; but the prime lasts such a short time (even a

relatively shorter time, as our average life span grows); and the

range of stressor and environmental assaults that can alter the

balance is long, and growing. Supplements, ideally formulated and

used, should do only what the name suggests: They

should " supplement " , in the literal sense of the word, what our

bodies can produce.

All the best...

Alan

> Hi,

>

> Many thanks and yes well on reading the reference one wouldn't

really be

> wanting to take any potassium supplements with such a drug........

>

> This sort of highlights the interesting issue of just what is safe

to put in

> a human body at any given time.