Adrenal Fatigue Questions

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I'm sorry that I don't post more often and I barely have time to read the posts.

I switched to digest just so I could still be on the group but not have my mail

box get too full.

Anyway, I have a question or two about adrenal fatigue. When I joined this list

in September I learned a whole lot about how that goes hand in hand with thyroid

stuff and I immediately began taking some adrenal glandulars. They didn't seem

to work for me though and I got some cortef which seemed to work wonders. I am

taking 20mg of it a day and have been doing great on it until very recently. It

seems that the adrenal fatigue symptoms are coming back again and I am not sure

why. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what did you do? Is it okay

to go up again for the cortef? I thought I had read that you couldn't take any

more than 20 mg. Next time I get some adrenal support, I am going to try

Isocort to see how that works for me.

This is what else I am on: 6 grains Armour (not a typo); 20 mcg of cytomel,

allergy meds (allegra and rhinocort). nexium, and a bunch of vitamins/minerals

separately since I can't take a multivitamin (am I the only one that get sick

from those?): iron (2x/day), b-complex, c, calcium, zinc, selenium, DHEA 7 keto

(I was breaking out with the regular DHEA) anc CoQ 10 for now.

I think that I am thyroid resistance or I just don't convert the free t4 into

free t3 very well because I was still feeling like crap and added the cytomel.

And when I started feeling better I started working out every day again like I

used to, even up to the point where I could start my kickboxing classes once a

week again. And I am starting to feel the adrenal fatigue set in again, I have

the shakes, really sore muscles and joint and a bad headache that doesn't seem

to go away. I know that I still need to add some more cytomel because my free

t3 is still low, but am I stressing my adrenals by doing so? I'm not going to

do any changes or additions any time soon though. Did I mess myself up by

starting to work out again?

I really hope I haven't messed up with the work outs, I was feeling so great.

And, between the medication and my being able to work out and get up and move

even at home, I have managed to lose 30 pounds. So back down to 160 and 130 is

my goal. So that is good....but this week that I haven't been able to work out

because of the adrenal symptoms, I have felt terrible. UGH!

Okay...before I continue blabbering endlessly, does anyone have any suggestions

or insight? I am on digest so you can email me directly, otherwise I will be

able to check back in a few days.

Hugs,

Deb (in Chicago)

[Guest guest]

Deb I am not an expert, but I would say that you may need to cut back on

one, some or all of what you are taking. Sometimes too much of a good

thing can cause the same problem as too little. Sheila

Sheila Bliesath

StarGate Travel

Phone:

For more information on travel or becoming an agent

info@...

[Guest guest]

I think I can tell you what might be happening. First, don't raise

your Cortef or whatever adrenal you are on anymore. You have by now

reduced your own adrenal output by at least half and have shrunk the

gland. The healthy human adrenal makes 35 to 40 mg of cortisol a

day. Long-term use of cortisone will lead to an adrenal gland that

can only make 15 to 20 mg a day. Of course hypothyroidism shrinks

the gland too. Your adrenals don't need to make more because you

provide it in pill form. The adrenal gland is much like a muscle and

if you don't use it, it gets weak.

So, what I think the problem is that when you do excercise, you need

another 10 mg of cortisol or maybe a lot more if it is vigorous

excercise. But, now that you are on cortisone and have an adrenal

gland that can only do half of what a healthy one can do, you are

running yourself down to empty with the activity because the glan

can't keep up with demand.

The heatlhy human adrenal stores 3 weeks worth of hormones for

things like excercise, illness and stess. But, with long term

steroid use and hypothyroidism (untreated), the adrenal gland looses

it's storage capacity for these extra things. So, adrenal support

tends to limit you in how much activity or stress you can handle.

So, if you raise your cortef dose you are just going to lower your

capacity for extra even more. So, what I think is happening is that

since you are feeling better and now doing a lot more activity, you

are depleting your adrenals on occasion and this results in a kind

of crash afterwards that can last up to a few days depending on how

much you overdid.

So, adrenal support makes you feel better overall and makes it

possible to get your thyroid dose up to where you need, but it

limits you in how much extra activity and stress you can do. The

gland does not have normal capacity for strenuous exercise and other

stresses.

The best solution, now is to start to get off the cortione slowly

and to try to build your adrenals back up to normal. You may have to

slow down on the excercise for a while to do this and be careful

about activities that go too far.

The other solutiion is to medicate for your excercise. In other

words take extra cortisol about 20 minutes before strenous

excercise. My former doc used to use 10 mg before he went to the

gym. I need about 7 mg for excercise. What you are doing with this

is supplying enough cortisol so as not to deplete your adrenals and

crash from the activity. It's kind of a guessing game how much you

need for this. Everybody is different.

But, really, if you want full function back, you will need to work

of the cortef. Every person is different and some can do it over a

month or so, and others need 8 months. It is not easy and this is

the downside of adrenal support.

Another solution is to break up your excercise into short sessions

and do three sessions in the day. This will not overtax the adrenals

and will give them time to recover before you do it again.

Tish

[Guest guest]

I think I can tell you what might be happening. First, don't raise

your Cortef or whatever adrenal you are on anymore. You have by now

reduced your own adrenal output by at least half and have shrunk the

gland. The healthy human adrenal makes 35 to 40 mg of cortisol a

day. Long-term use of cortisone will lead to an adrenal gland that

can only make 15 to 20 mg a day. Of course hypothyroidism shrinks

the gland too. Your adrenals don't need to make more because you

provide it in pill form. The adrenal gland is much like a muscle and

if you don't use it, it gets weak.

So, what I think the problem is that when you do excercise, you need

another 10 mg of cortisol or maybe a lot more if it is vigorous

excercise. But, now that you are on cortisone and have an adrenal

gland that can only do half of what a healthy one can do, you are

running yourself down to empty with the activity because the glan

can't keep up with demand.

The heatlhy human adrenal stores 3 weeks worth of hormones for

things like excercise, illness and stess. But, with long term

steroid use and hypothyroidism (untreated), the adrenal gland looses

it's storage capacity for these extra things. So, adrenal support

tends to limit you in how much activity or stress you can handle.

So, if you raise your cortef dose you are just going to lower your

capacity for extra even more. So, what I think is happening is that

since you are feeling better and now doing a lot more activity, you

are depleting your adrenals on occasion and this results in a kind

of crash afterwards that can last up to a few days depending on how

much you overdid.

So, adrenal support makes you feel better overall and makes it

possible to get your thyroid dose up to where you need, but it

limits you in how much extra activity and stress you can do. The

gland does not have normal capacity for strenuous exercise and other

stresses.

The best solution, now is to start to get off the cortione slowly

and to try to build your adrenals back up to normal. You may have to

slow down on the excercise for a while to do this and be careful

about activities that go too far.

The other solutiion is to medicate for your excercise. In other

words take extra cortisol about 20 minutes before strenous

excercise. My former doc used to use 10 mg before he went to the

gym. I need about 7 mg for excercise. What you are doing with this

is supplying enough cortisol so as not to deplete your adrenals and

crash from the activity. It's kind of a guessing game how much you

need for this. Everybody is different.

But, really, if you want full function back, you will need to work

of the cortef. Every person is different and some can do it over a

month or so, and others need 8 months. It is not easy and this is

the downside of adrenal support.

Another solution is to break up your excercise into short sessions

and do three sessions in the day. This will not overtax the adrenals

and will give them time to recover before you do it again.

Tish

[Guest guest]

You really shouldn't go above 20 mg of Cortef on a regular basis. If you are

having unusual stress (illness, dental work, family visiting, etc) you can go as

high as 40 for a week or so, but then you need to start cutting back. I don't

know what you do if the stress lasts longer than a week (my in-laws used to

visit for 5 weeks at a time!), I'm just saying what my doc told me.

The symptoms of adrenal fatigue can be similar to too much thyroid. Have you

tried the pupil dilation test to make sure adrenals are really the problem?

It's described in the FILES section for this group.

I would also be careful changing doses and/or types of adrenal support. The

feedback loop that regulates cortisol is fairly slow to react to changes. Some

people take months to slowly wean off adrenal support (I haven't done it yet,

but those who have say it's no picnic). If you change from Cortef to Isocort,

the dosage should be 8 pellets of Isocort = 20 mg Cortef, but Isocort is OTC and

its potency isn't guaranteed.

I'm also suspicious of the allergy meds. Can't those cause symptoms similar to

adrenals, like shakiness or nervousness? Not that you have much choice, though.

I also notice you're taking DHEA. I know the 7-keto is supposed to be better,

but DHEA made me *really* cranky. When I finally got tested, it turned out my

DHEA was fine, but cortisol was low. My point is, don't assume you need DHEA

just because your adrenals are fatigued. Have you done the saliva test?

Having said all that, overworking is probably the problem. I get horribly shaky

when I overdo it. I was feeling really great a while back, and decided to redo

the bedroom. By the end of the weekend, I was shaking so hard I couldn't hold

the screwdriver in the slot (my wife is a sloppy painter, so I always have to

change the switches and outlets when she's done). It took a couple of weeks to

really feel right again. This is something everyone here seems to do. It's

just so good to feel good again, you go nuts.

HTH! -- prr

Deb hedoblonde@... wrote:

Anyway, I have a question or two about adrenal fatigue. When I joined this

list in September I learned a whole lot about how that goes hand in hand with

thyroid stuff and I immediately began taking some adrenal glandulars. They

didn't seem to work for me though and I got some cortef which seemed to work

wonders. I am taking 20mg of it a day and have been doing great on it until

very recently. It seems that the adrenal fatigue symptoms are coming back again

and I am not sure why. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what did

you do? Is it okay to go up again for the cortef? I thought I had read that

you couldn't take any more than 20 mg. Next time I get some adrenal support, I

am going to try Isocort to see how that works for me.

This is what else I am on: 6 grains Armour (not a typo); 20 mcg of cytomel,

allergy meds (allegra and rhinocort). nexium, and a bunch of vitamins/minerals

separately since I can't take a multivitamin (am I the only one that get sick

from those?): iron (2x/day), b-complex, c, calcium, zinc, selenium, DHEA 7 keto

(I was breaking out with the regular DHEA) anc CoQ 10 for now.

I think that I am thyroid resistance or I just don't convert the free t4 into

free t3 very well because I was still feeling like crap and added the cytomel.

And when I started feeling better I started working out every day again like I

used to, even up to the point where I could start my kickboxing classes once a

week again. And I am starting to feel the adrenal fatigue set in again, I have

the shakes, really sore muscles and joint and a bad headache that doesn't seem

to go away. I know that I still need to add some more cytomel because my free

t3 is still low, but am I stressing my adrenals by doing so? I'm not going to

do any changes or additions any time soon though. Did I mess myself up by

starting to work out again?

I really hope I haven't messed up with the work outs, I was feeling so great.

And, between the medication and my being able to work out and get up and move

even at home, I have managed to lose 30 pounds. So back down to 160 and 130 is

my goal. So that is good....but this week that I haven't been able to work out

because of the adrenal symptoms, I have felt terrible. UGH!

Okay...before I continue blabbering endlessly, does anyone have any suggestions

or insight? I am on digest so you can email me directly, otherwise I will be

able to check back in a few days.

Hugs,

Deb (in Chicago)

[Guest guest]

You really shouldn't go above 20 mg of Cortef on a regular basis. If you are

having unusual stress (illness, dental work, family visiting, etc) you can go as

high as 40 for a week or so, but then you need to start cutting back. I don't

know what you do if the stress lasts longer than a week (my in-laws used to

visit for 5 weeks at a time!), I'm just saying what my doc told me.

The symptoms of adrenal fatigue can be similar to too much thyroid. Have you

tried the pupil dilation test to make sure adrenals are really the problem?

It's described in the FILES section for this group.

I would also be careful changing doses and/or types of adrenal support. The

feedback loop that regulates cortisol is fairly slow to react to changes. Some

people take months to slowly wean off adrenal support (I haven't done it yet,

but those who have say it's no picnic). If you change from Cortef to Isocort,

the dosage should be 8 pellets of Isocort = 20 mg Cortef, but Isocort is OTC and

its potency isn't guaranteed.

I'm also suspicious of the allergy meds. Can't those cause symptoms similar to

adrenals, like shakiness or nervousness? Not that you have much choice, though.

I also notice you're taking DHEA. I know the 7-keto is supposed to be better,

but DHEA made me *really* cranky. When I finally got tested, it turned out my

DHEA was fine, but cortisol was low. My point is, don't assume you need DHEA

just because your adrenals are fatigued. Have you done the saliva test?

Having said all that, overworking is probably the problem. I get horribly shaky

when I overdo it. I was feeling really great a while back, and decided to redo

the bedroom. By the end of the weekend, I was shaking so hard I couldn't hold

the screwdriver in the slot (my wife is a sloppy painter, so I always have to

change the switches and outlets when she's done). It took a couple of weeks to

really feel right again. This is something everyone here seems to do. It's

just so good to feel good again, you go nuts.

HTH! -- prr

Deb hedoblonde@... wrote:

Anyway, I have a question or two about adrenal fatigue. When I joined this

list in September I learned a whole lot about how that goes hand in hand with

thyroid stuff and I immediately began taking some adrenal glandulars. They

didn't seem to work for me though and I got some cortef which seemed to work

wonders. I am taking 20mg of it a day and have been doing great on it until

very recently. It seems that the adrenal fatigue symptoms are coming back again

and I am not sure why. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what did

you do? Is it okay to go up again for the cortef? I thought I had read that

you couldn't take any more than 20 mg. Next time I get some adrenal support, I

am going to try Isocort to see how that works for me.

This is what else I am on: 6 grains Armour (not a typo); 20 mcg of cytomel,

allergy meds (allegra and rhinocort). nexium, and a bunch of vitamins/minerals

separately since I can't take a multivitamin (am I the only one that get sick

from those?): iron (2x/day), b-complex, c, calcium, zinc, selenium, DHEA 7 keto

(I was breaking out with the regular DHEA) anc CoQ 10 for now.

I think that I am thyroid resistance or I just don't convert the free t4 into

free t3 very well because I was still feeling like crap and added the cytomel.

And when I started feeling better I started working out every day again like I

used to, even up to the point where I could start my kickboxing classes once a

week again. And I am starting to feel the adrenal fatigue set in again, I have

the shakes, really sore muscles and joint and a bad headache that doesn't seem

to go away. I know that I still need to add some more cytomel because my free

t3 is still low, but am I stressing my adrenals by doing so? I'm not going to

do any changes or additions any time soon though. Did I mess myself up by

starting to work out again?

I really hope I haven't messed up with the work outs, I was feeling so great.

And, between the medication and my being able to work out and get up and move

even at home, I have managed to lose 30 pounds. So back down to 160 and 130 is

my goal. So that is good....but this week that I haven't been able to work out

because of the adrenal symptoms, I have felt terrible. UGH!

Okay...before I continue blabbering endlessly, does anyone have any suggestions

or insight? I am on digest so you can email me directly, otherwise I will be

able to check back in a few days.

Hugs,

Deb (in Chicago)

[Guest guest]

> Where did you get the information that low dose cortef therapy

will shrink the adrenal glands?

_________________

Wiliam Mck Jeffries " Safe Uses of Cortisol " He gives a chart on how

much adrenal function will be lost on varying doses of cortisol

given long enough. He gives 20 mg a day as resulting in a 60% loss

of your own adrenal function. Same sort of thing happens to the

thyroid. It will become weak on thyroid replacement. It's the old

addage, use it or loose it. The gland is the size it needs to be to

have enough cells to produce the amount of hormones needed. Lots of

studies have shown that the adrenal gland shrinks under excess

stress or lack of use. The biggest researcher on this is Hans Seyle.

The more you use it, the larger it gets, the less, the smaller it

gets. Excess stress beyond the cpacity of the gland damages cells

and reduces it's function. Low circulating thyroid does not provide

enough stimulation to the gland and it will become smaller and loose

hormone storage capacity.

The adrenal gland is very dynamic and adapts to varying demands as

long as they are not excessive. So, the loss of 60% of function is

not permanent and with care the adrenals can return to normal in the

vast majority of people. Those that get stuck on adrenal support or

cortisone therapy are those that have extreemly sensitive

pituitary/hypothalamuses and they become reluctant to return to

normal function when steroids are discontinued and those with

autoimmune diseases and other more permanent damage. So, a very few

people will not be able to get off cortisone. Some practitioners

recommend an every other day program to try and force the

pituitary/hypothalamus back into action if the person is uable to

build back up their gland by slow reduction of cortisone. So, in

this situation, you do one day on cortisone and one day off. It is

not fun, but it will go further toward getting the brain back in

action.

Tish

[Guest guest]

How are you taking the 20mgs of cortef? Do you take it 5mgs 4 x a

day or do you take by some other protocol like 10mg's with breakfast,

5mg with lunch, and 5mg at midafternoon?

>

> Hi All,

>

> I'm sorry that I don't post more often and I barely have time to

read the posts. I switched to digest just so I could still be on the

group but not have my mail box get too full.

>

> Anyway, I have a question or two about adrenal fatigue. When I

joined this list in September I learned a whole lot about how that

goes hand in hand with thyroid stuff and I immediately began taking

some adrenal glandulars. They didn't seem to work for me though and

I got some cortef which seemed to work wonders. I am taking 20mg of

it a day and have been doing great on it until very recently. It

seems that the adrenal fatigue symptoms are coming back again and I

am not sure why. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what

did you do? Is it okay to go up again for the cortef? I thought I

had read that you couldn't take any more than 20 mg. Next time I get

some adrenal support, I am going to try Isocort to see how that works

for me.

>

> This is what else I am on: 6 grains Armour (not a typo); 20 mcg of

cytomel, allergy meds (allegra and rhinocort). nexium, and a bunch of

vitamins/minerals separately since I can't take a multivitamin (am I

the only one that get sick from those?): iron (2x/day), b-complex,

c, calcium, zinc, selenium, DHEA 7 keto (I was breaking out with the

regular DHEA) anc CoQ 10 for now.

>

> I think that I am thyroid resistance or I just don't convert the

free t4 into free t3 very well because I was still feeling like crap

and added the cytomel. And when I started feeling better I started

working out every day again like I used to, even up to the point

where I could start my kickboxing classes once a week again. And I

am starting to feel the adrenal fatigue set in again, I have the

shakes, really sore muscles and joint and a bad headache that doesn't

seem to go away. I know that I still need to add some more cytomel

because my free t3 is still low, but am I stressing my adrenals by

doing so? I'm not going to do any changes or additions any time soon

though. Did I mess myself up by starting to work out again?

>

> I really hope I haven't messed up with the work outs, I was feeling

so great. And, between the medication and my being able to work out

and get up and move even at home, I have managed to lose 30 pounds.

So back down to 160 and 130 is my goal. So that is good....but this

week that I haven't been able to work out because of the adrenal

symptoms, I have felt terrible. UGH!

>

> Okay...before I continue blabbering endlessly, does anyone have any

suggestions or insight? I am on digest so you can email me directly,

otherwise I will be able to check back in a few days.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Deb (in Chicago)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

How are you taking the 20mgs of cortef? Do you take it 5mgs 4 x a

day or do you take by some other protocol like 10mg's with breakfast,

5mg with lunch, and 5mg at midafternoon?

>

> Hi All,

>

> I'm sorry that I don't post more often and I barely have time to

read the posts. I switched to digest just so I could still be on the

group but not have my mail box get too full.

>

> Anyway, I have a question or two about adrenal fatigue. When I

joined this list in September I learned a whole lot about how that

goes hand in hand with thyroid stuff and I immediately began taking

some adrenal glandulars. They didn't seem to work for me though and

I got some cortef which seemed to work wonders. I am taking 20mg of

it a day and have been doing great on it until very recently. It

seems that the adrenal fatigue symptoms are coming back again and I

am not sure why. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what

did you do? Is it okay to go up again for the cortef? I thought I

had read that you couldn't take any more than 20 mg. Next time I get

some adrenal support, I am going to try Isocort to see how that works

for me.

>

> This is what else I am on: 6 grains Armour (not a typo); 20 mcg of

cytomel, allergy meds (allegra and rhinocort). nexium, and a bunch of

vitamins/minerals separately since I can't take a multivitamin (am I

the only one that get sick from those?): iron (2x/day), b-complex,

c, calcium, zinc, selenium, DHEA 7 keto (I was breaking out with the

regular DHEA) anc CoQ 10 for now.

>

> I think that I am thyroid resistance or I just don't convert the

free t4 into free t3 very well because I was still feeling like crap

and added the cytomel. And when I started feeling better I started

working out every day again like I used to, even up to the point

where I could start my kickboxing classes once a week again. And I

am starting to feel the adrenal fatigue set in again, I have the

shakes, really sore muscles and joint and a bad headache that doesn't

seem to go away. I know that I still need to add some more cytomel

because my free t3 is still low, but am I stressing my adrenals by

doing so? I'm not going to do any changes or additions any time soon

though. Did I mess myself up by starting to work out again?

>

> I really hope I haven't messed up with the work outs, I was feeling

so great. And, between the medication and my being able to work out

and get up and move even at home, I have managed to lose 30 pounds.

So back down to 160 and 130 is my goal. So that is good....but this

week that I haven't been able to work out because of the adrenal

symptoms, I have felt terrible. UGH!

>

> Okay...before I continue blabbering endlessly, does anyone have any

suggestions or insight? I am on digest so you can email me directly,

otherwise I will be able to check back in a few days.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Deb (in Chicago)

>

>

>