I Have a Word for Hashi's But Can't Say It Here

February 22, 2005

As some of you may know, I've been self treating for over a yr (almost 1 and 1/2

now) with Armour, switched myself from T4 synthetics at that time. It has

gotten me out of my sore body, depression, and myriads of other things.

Now there's a relapse or whatever you would call it. I have very high

antibodies for both of the major ones (over 1000 and almost 2000 on the other;

as far as I know, they're still that high or are still there). I've not been

talking about this til now, til I was sure I was having a reaction specifically

to the Naturethroid. What, Naturethroid?! Yep, like so many other self

treaters, I can only find the Naturethroid, not Armour, and made this change a

couple of 100 count one grain bottles ago. Well, starting about 10 days ago, I

started getting sick and sweaty and you name it, yet I can still scarf down the

carbs, and I mean specifically high carbs. I'm still eating all the good foods,

but this craving has gotten ridiculous, but, at this point, it's not making me

feel better at all, even shortly after eating. I was still taking every single

30 mg dose of my Naturethroid (135 mgs in a 24 hr period) up until 3 days ago.

In order to determine if that's what's been causing the nausea, sweating,

shakiness, etc...I would take a dose, have the reaction, then go without the

next dose, then would feel better after skipping two more doses. As a matter of

fact, day before yesterday, I took one 30 mg dose of it, got sick as a dog, then

went without it for the rest of the day, or rather night, and felt wonderful,

even breathing, etc.!!! Then, I felt great until I took a dose yesterday

evening, and the nausea and all the rest of the nightmare started all over again

and lasted until about 1:00 in the morning, while I was at work. I never took

another dose of hormone after the dose at approximately 6:30 in the evening

yesterday. Also, important to know, my pulse was NOT up during these times, was

running it's usual 72, but my blood pressure is a little iffy right now, and has

been on and off anyway, but the pulse has been steady, NOT the temp though. I

feel wonderful for the last 6 or 7 hrs or so (it's now almost 8 in the morning

and I'm at home now). For at least the last week, every single dose of it that

I have taken has scored me a body temp of 99 degrees or over, but get this. I

just took my temp (axillary), and it's registering 97.2. This has been

happening on and off for at least the last week, so I'm absolutely POSITIVE of

the pattern of it all. It's the thyroid, or at least, it might be something

that my OWN thyroid is doing

Since I've been on the 120 mgs for at least 3 to 4 months now, then how can that

be, unLESS my own thyroid function is doing a schiz thing OR possibly a

hyperfunctioning nodule that's throwing some T3 out on it's own????????? Don't

know. I DO know that I probably need an ultra sound by now.

BTW, strange thing is that my neck has shrunk, and there is NO swelling in it,

and no pain, which lately, is unusual. NOone can tell me that I should be

taking 3 to 4 grains at this point because Hashi's glands are very strange and

unpredictable. I would think adrenal, except that I've BEEN ON THIS DOSE FOR

ALMOST 4 MONTHS NOW, SO IF IT WAS ADRENAL IN NATURE, SEEMS LIKE I WOULD HAVE

ALREADY HAD THIS PROBLEM, DUHH!!

February 22, 2005

but this craving has gotten ridiculous,

___________________________

This sounds like you are inadvertantly getting more thyroid from the

new medication and it is causing you to have adrenal problems. This

results in thryoid building up in the blood and that causes muscles

to be using energy like crazy and low adrenal causes glucose to drop

too low in the blood. The result is cravaing carbos like crazy. Your

body is desperately trying to get energy to use that thyroid and to

get more glucose in the blood, but can't because cortisol is low.

When thyroid gets out of balance with cortisol, then you cannot

maintain blood glucose and the muscles go into having to break down

protien or themselves to get energy. This is not efficient and makes

them shaky and weak. When cortisol is not sufficient for the amount

of thyroid, thyrid hormone builds up in the blood and can cause

symptoms of overdose. At the same time tissues are deprived of

sufficient thyroid. Often it will be worse in the morning and then

by afternoon things settle down if you aren't too tired from it all

by then.

______________________

nausea and all the rest of the nightmare started all over again and

lasted until about 1:00 in the morning, while I was at work.

______________________

Once again sounds like low cortisol. Nausea classic sign of adrenal

depletion.

_______________________

the pulse has been steady, NOT the temp though.

scored me a body temp of 99 degrees or over, but get this. I just

took my temp (axillary), and it's registering 97.2.

__________________________

Classic adrenal problems are very irratic temps. When the adrenals

become overstressed by increasing thyroid, they go into a kind of

big up and down activity, where one minute you are ok and the next,

not. When there is not enough cortisol, thyroid can't get into

tissues and body temp drops like a rock. The adrenals work this way

when over stressed. First the increase in thyroid causes an

increased demand for cortisol because you are speeding up the body,

like a car uses more gas when you drive faster. Second, you are

increasing the breakdown of cortiosl in the liver because you have

increased your metabolic rate with more thyroid. The result is that

the adrenals will soon become depoleted. Then they must stop

production to rebuild hormones. While they are stopped, you feel bad

and your brain is pumping out ACTH demanding more cortisol, because

it sees that it's low. But, the adrenals can't respond untill they

are ready. So, ACTH builds up in the blood. Finally, when the

adrenals are ready to put out some hormone, they detect lots of ACTH

and think there is a crisis and dump everything they just made. Then

they have to shut down again to rebuild more hormones. The result it

irratic up and down function all day and this results in a combo of

both hypo and hyper symtpoms. When cortisol is low, thyroid builds

up in the blood and you get nasty symptoms like nausia and the

shakes. Then, when the adrenals have done a dump, you kind of

recover for a bit.

____________________________

Since I've been on the 120 mgs for at least 3 to 4 months now, then

how can that be,

________________________

Your thyroid could be hyperfunctioning, but if you are absorbing

more thyroid from the new meds, then you have really accidentally

given yourself a dose raise. Why not drop your dose a bit untill you

start to feel better, then try to raise it back up, only make a tiny

raise and wait till you feel good again before going up another tiny

bit. This may take 4 weeks or more with low adrenal function. To see

if adrenal is playing a role in what is happening to you, go to

Rind's page: http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp Irratic temps are

classic low adrenal.

___________________________

> BTW, strange thing is that my neck has shrunk, and there is NO

swelling in it, and no pain, which lately, is unusual.

_______________________

This fits with the idea that you have accidentally given yourself a

dose raise by absorbing more thyroid out of the new meds. The more

thyroid you take, the more you suppress your own thryoid. This

reduces activity in the gland, which in turn slows antibody

production and inflammation from the damage they cause.

It has long been know that suppressive doses of thyroid that are

high enough to pretty much stop all thyroid production in the gland

for 6 to 8 years can cure Hashi's in about 11% of people. It is also

known that suppressive doses of thyroid get rid of goiter or a

swolen gland. So, the more thyroid you take, the more the gland will

shrink and the less it will be damaged.

Since the healthy human thyroid makes 3 to 5 grains a day, when you

take 1 grain, your thyroid needs to make another 2 to 4 grains. So,

the more thyroid you take, and the more you suppress your own

thyroid, the fewer antibodies are stimulated to be made by activity

inside the thyroid.

In the old days before TSH tests, thyroid doses were 2 to 3 times

higher than they are today. Doctors used to treat Hashimotos and

goiter with high suppressive doses of thyroid as this will shink the

thyroid down eventually. Average doses were 2 to 5 grains. Studies

have found that you cnanot raise the metabolic rate of people with

doses less than 3 to 5 grains. The goal back then was to suppress

your own thyroid function to nil. This takes out of the system the

stimulators of antibody production. Over time, the body can forget

the knowledge that it is supposed to attack the thyroid, just like

the body looses antibody resistance to flu after a flu shot has worn

off in a year.

So, any time you have problems with thyroid doses less than about 3

grains, it is usually caused by low adrenal, anemia and other

deficiencies that are interfering with the body's ability to use

thyroid. Since, when you take any dose less than your healthy

thyroid would make, your pituitary drops production of TSH to drop

production in the thyroid by the amount or more than the dose you

are taking. In this way the pituitary guards against overdose.

So, really, your dose is still quite small and I am betting the

problem is that you have low adrenal fucntion from long standing

hypothryoidism. The amount of thyroid in the blood controls the

function and size of the adrenal glands. So, if a person has been

hypo or undermedicated for hypo for a long time, the adrenal glands

become weak. Then, when they take thyroid or make dose raises, they

get into trouble.

The solution for this problem is to go very slowly with dose raises

and make dose raises very tiny. I could only do 1/8th grain dose

raises every 4 weeks or more due to adrenal problems. Going slowly

gives the adrenals a chance to recover and build their strength

before another raise. It is a very slow process in adrenal fatige.

The adrenals can take 4 months to 2 years to get back to normal.

________________________

NOone can tell me that I should be taking 3 to 4 grains at this

point because Hashi's glands are very strange and unpredictable. I

would think adrenal, except that I've BEEN ON THIS DOSE FOR ALMOST 4

MONTHS NOW, SO IF IT WAS ADRENAL IN NATURE, SEEMS LIKE I WOULD HAVE

ALREADY HAD THIS PROBLEM, DUHH!!

____________________

You are definitely not ready for 4 grains. Being on low dose therapy

for a long time can actually make the adrenals weak. This is how it

works: Starting thyroid therapy at low doses often overly suppresses

the pituitary. The result is that if you take 1 grain and your

pituitary gets overly suppressed by this, it will not make enough

TSH to tell your thyroid to make the rest of what you need to be

healthy or another 2 to 4 grains. This happened to me. 2 grains made

me more hypothyroid than on nothing.

It is thought that taking a pill twice a day, gives a big spike in

thyroid levels that shuts down the pituitary and it does not have

time to recover before the next dose is due. The healthy thyroid

puts out hormone in only a few micrograms an hour. This is not the

same as taking 60 mg once in the morning which gives a big spike.

So, it is thought that the pituitary gets turned off temporarily by

this and the result is that it does not make enough TSH to tell the

thyroid to make enough hormone to add to your medicine to get you

where you need to be. So, you can acually get more hypo on low dose

therapy and this happened to me. But, research has shown that low

dose therapy in most people will keep things exactly the same as

they were before treatment. Hypos tend to have pituitary problems

anyway and may not make enough TSH in the first place. Between 15

and 40% have pituitary problems. The reuslt is that you really get

nowhere on doses less than something close to total of what your

healthy thyroid would make.

So, if you have been on low dose therapy long enough, and you have

had low circulating levels of thyroid for at least 4 months and this

can result in weakened adrenals. It only takes about 4 weeks of this

situation to have an impact on the adrenal glands. So, this may be

why you did not experiience problems early on. You were not really

changing your thyroid status or even worsening it. Now you have

accidentally given yourself a dose raise by using a medication that

is more absorbable for you.

Tish

February 22, 2005