Re: *TISH (or others)- question

[Guest guest]

Tish, you once wrote:

" Low adrenal function slows thyrod function. It won't neccessarily

show up on tests. When cortisol is low thyroid can't get into

tissues nor will T4 be well converted to T3. So, the thyroid hormone

stays in the blood and the pituitary thinks everything is fine or

drops TSH to lower blood levels. But since the pituitary is making

it's decision by what's going on in the blood, it doesn't realize

the problem in the tissues. So, blood levels are normal or even

high, but tissues are deprived.

The solution would be to try low dose adrenal support 10 to 20 mg of

cortisol per day (1 to 2 IsoCorts every 4 hours). If the thyroid is

fine, then this should do the trick. IF the thyroid is sick also,

then adding adrenal support will cause blood thyroid levels to

decline in a couple of weeks and the hypothyroidism will worsen. "

>>Well, I started CORTEF about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I take 10 mg in the am and 10 mg

in the late afternoon or pm.

>>At first, I was hitting a few 98.6's.

>>This last week or so, I have been having more and more temperature

swings...even down as low as 94.1 and 94.6 in the afternoon. Could this be

from dosng incorrectly, or is there something else gong on.

>>Also, I have been getting more and more depressd/(near) suicidal feeling.

>>Can you shed any light on this at all?

>>Also. Is tarted taking progesterone about a week before I started the CORTEF.

For about 2 day I suddenly felt quasi normal, and after that it all went

right back to the same, and now downhill.

>>I am currently taking 4 grains of thyroid. It seems to me that the mornings

where I start out with taking 3 grains right off the bat, my temps will hit

98.6 for a few hours, then soon drops back down to the 97's.

>>Is this suggesting that I need to try just plain T3/CYTOMEL or something?

>>I am sure my receptor sites are all gunked up by mercury, et al.....so do we

just keep on upping the dose and bombarding the receptors????

>>Any input/thoughts appreciated.

>>~Inga

[Guest guest]

Tish, you once wrote:

" Low adrenal function slows thyrod function. It won't neccessarily

show up on tests. When cortisol is low thyroid can't get into

tissues nor will T4 be well converted to T3. So, the thyroid hormone

stays in the blood and the pituitary thinks everything is fine or

drops TSH to lower blood levels. But since the pituitary is making

it's decision by what's going on in the blood, it doesn't realize

the problem in the tissues. So, blood levels are normal or even

high, but tissues are deprived.

The solution would be to try low dose adrenal support 10 to 20 mg of

cortisol per day (1 to 2 IsoCorts every 4 hours). If the thyroid is

fine, then this should do the trick. IF the thyroid is sick also,

then adding adrenal support will cause blood thyroid levels to

decline in a couple of weeks and the hypothyroidism will worsen. "

>>Well, I started CORTEF about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I take 10 mg in the am and 10 mg

in the late afternoon or pm.

>>At first, I was hitting a few 98.6's.

>>This last week or so, I have been having more and more temperature

swings...even down as low as 94.1 and 94.6 in the afternoon. Could this be

from dosng incorrectly, or is there something else gong on.

>>Also, I have been getting more and more depressd/(near) suicidal feeling.

>>Can you shed any light on this at all?

>>Also. Is tarted taking progesterone about a week before I started the CORTEF.

For about 2 day I suddenly felt quasi normal, and after that it all went

right back to the same, and now downhill.

>>I am currently taking 4 grains of thyroid. It seems to me that the mornings

where I start out with taking 3 grains right off the bat, my temps will hit

98.6 for a few hours, then soon drops back down to the 97's.

>>Is this suggesting that I need to try just plain T3/CYTOMEL or something?

>>I am sure my receptor sites are all gunked up by mercury, et al.....so do we

just keep on upping the dose and bombarding the receptors????

>>Any input/thoughts appreciated.

>>~Inga

[Guest guest]

Well, I started CORTEF about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I take 10 mg in the am

and 10 mg

> in the late afternoon or pm.

________________

First off, this dosing you are doing is not very helpful for your

situation. Cortisol only lasts in the blood about 4 hours. So, four

hours after you take your 10 mg, you are dead in the water and your

temps will tank or go very low at some time after that and probably

you will also deplete the adrenals.

__________________

>

> >>At first, I was hitting a few 98.6's.

>

> >>This last week or so, I have been having more and more

temperature

> swings...even down as low as 94.1 and 94.6 in the afternoon. Could

this be

> from dosng incorrectly,

_______________________

Yes, I think your dosing is not helping you and may be hindering a

little by causing big swings in cortisol levels in the blood.

________________________

Also, I have been getting more and more depressd/(near) suicidal

feeling.

______________________

Classic adrenal crash or depletion symptoms. You are having periods

where cortisol is going way too low and this causes irrational crazy

behavior and thinking. Been there done that for sure. Your dosing is

probably contributing to the problem.

____________________________

> >>Can you shed any light on this at all?

_____________________--

The healthy adrenals need to make double the amount of hormones in

the morning than they do for the rest of the day. so, when you take

one big dose in the morning, you are kind of slowing down your own

adrenal production more than you should be for a few hours. Then

after about 4 hours, it's all used up. But at the same time, adrenal

demand is still a higher than later in the day. This will probably

result in a giant drop in cortisol levels either in the second half

of the morning or later in the day. It will be causing you a real

adrenal stress sometime following about 4 hours after your morning

dose. Everybody is different as to when this will occur. Then at

night, when you hardly need any cortisol and it needs to be low for

you to prepare for sleep, your are giving yourself a big wammy with

another 10 mg. This will totally turn off your gland and pituitary.

Over time, this sort of dosing will give you problems with pituitary

suppression and may worsen your adrenal response to stress and

higher morning higher demands. It will also work against you as far

as supporting the gland goes because you are having very large

swings in cortisol levels in the day. This is what you want to avoid

in adrenal support. Stopping big swings is the point of adrenal

support.

__________________

>

> >>Also. Is tarted taking progesterone about a week before I

started the CORTEF.

________________________

I've had some problems with progesterone and adrenal fatigue.

Progesterone will make my adrenal problems worse. Progesterone works

to counteract cortisol a little bit and it also pushes the body a

bit more toward hypoglycemia, which people with adrenal fatigue

already have a problem with. So, if you have adrenal fatigue and low

cortisol levels, progesterone can worsen the situation for some

people. For me it makes my life miserable.

_______________________

>

> >>I am currently taking 4 grains of thyroid. It seems to me that

the mornings

> where I start out with taking 3 grains right off the bat, my temps

will hit

> 98.6 for a few hours, then soon drops back down to the 97's.

______________________--

Bet your temperature tanks some time following 4 hours after your

big 10 mg IsoCort dose. When cortisol goes too low, temperature

drops hugely. 3 grains in the morning is giving you quite a big

adrenal stress, also. Then taking 10 mg of cortisol in the evening

is causing you to burn up more thyroid, but then, your dose is

apparently much smaller or tiny in comparison. This is another

adrenal stress. The body actually needs a little more thyroid at

night. Most people take equal thyroid doses in the morning and

night. I take slightly more at night and this helps me sleep better.

They body actually needs a little more thyroid at night. But for

sure, I think you need to work on balancing out your thyroid doses

and your adrenal support. When you take a great big dose of thyroid

in the morning, you are getting too much T3 in the blood at one

time. The liver will deactivate some of it to try and get T3 levels

more normal. So, in a way, it's more wastefull of T3 to take too big

of a dose at once.

In adrenal fatigue, it is hard on the adrenals to get big T3 spikes

in the blood. It would be better if you could spread out your

thyroid doses more evenly. I would suggest you do two equal doses a

day minimum or better yet 3 equal doses every 8 hours. This works

out to one in the morning, one in the early afternoon and one at

bedtime. I think you need to balance out your dosing so blood levels

of hormones stay constant in the blood as much as possible. This is

much better for the adrenals overall and for your whole body -

closer to normal thyroid function. But, you may find if you make

your doses equal that you will need a slightly higher daily thyroid

dose overall or more than 4 grains.

__________________

> >>Is this suggesting that I need to try just plain T3/CYTOMEL or

something?

_____________________

No, not at all. You just need to start dosing both thyroid and

adrenal much better. You are making it hard on your body to use

thyroid properly with your dosing.

___________________

> >>I am sure my receptor sites are all gunked up by mercury, et

al.....so do we

> just keep on upping the dose and bombarding the receptors????

______________________

First get your dosing corrected so you aren't killing yourself with

uneven dosing then figure out if you need to raise thyroid further.

But, the way you are dosing is causing metabolic chaos. It will be

very difficult to figure anything out when blood hormone levels of

both thyroid and adrenal are all over the place at different times

of the day.

Tish

[Guest guest]

My dose is not yet optimal, but here's what I've seen so far.

Taking 1 grain in the morning did not change my temps at ALL.

Taking 1.5 grains, 1 in the morning and .5 at 2 pm did not change my

temps at ALL>

Taking 1.5 grains, .5 in the morning, .5 at 2 and .5 just before bed

brought my am temp up by about .7, from a pre-ovulation average of

96.2 to 96.8.

Taking 2 grain split into 4 doses, .5 at each meal and .5 before bed

brought my AM temps into the 97.4 range. My dattime temp is still

under 98.

Cheers,

Friday

> Thanks so much Tish for a very informative and thougthful reply.

> I get confused, becasue I have read many times that people say to

take most

> of their thyroid in the AM and then a little bit more in the

afternoon or

> evening, and so I thought I would try it that way.

>

> The doctor that initially gave me the natural thyroid simply told

me to take

> 3 grains in the morning...I was splitting it up some on my own

anyway.

>

> I feel like a real NIMROD here, but I tell you, I was trying real

hard to

> get up to a temperature of 98.6. The ONLY time I have been able to

get a

> 98.6 is by taking 3 grains of thyroid along with 10 mg of

CORTISONE. If I do

> that, then about 3-4 hours after I take it a get a 98.6 that lasts

for

> several hours. Sometimes it has lasted until mid evening...and

that was when

> I would take my next dose of 1 grain thyroid and 5-10 of CORTEF.

>

> Personally, I feel like spread out even doses would be the way to

go for

> me....

>

> I am dosing DMSA at 3 hour intervals. So, Tish, If I were to take

the

> thyroid and cortisone at every other DMSA dosing, that would be

every 6

> hours or 4 times a day.

>

> Do you think I should cut my morning dose of thyroid down to 1

grain and

> then do 1 grain every other dose too?

>

> It seems tome that I actually FEEL a little bit beter after I take

the 3

> grains, but I just don't have many positive symptoms, so it is

hard to say.

>

> I AM pleased to report one thing, and that is that after not

having a phone

> for 2 weeks, when it finally got hooked up yesterday, and rang

this morning

> and woke me up, for the first time since over a year, the phone

waking me up

> did not result in my heart pounding super hard and fast for about

5-10

> minutes or so...so I think I must be going in the right direction.

>

> For now, I think I will continue the progesterone. Everybody has

been saying

> I MUST do progresterone.....I quite suddenly lost all my sex drive

about 6

> month ago.

>

> For about the first 2 days after I took progesterone, I felt quasi

normal

> emotionally...then it was back to the same old thing.

>

> I think I am going to try the super even tbyroid dosing and see

what

> happens....and I'll bet you are right that I will need more than

just 4

> grains. Yup. Super even dosing is what I will try.

>

> Thanks,

> Inga the Dumber

>

>

> >>

> >>>> Also. Is tarted taking progesterone about a week before I

> > started the CORTEF.

> > ________________________

> > I've had some problems with progesterone and adrenal fatigue.

> > Progesterone will make my adrenal problems worse. Progesterone

works

> > to counteract cortisol a little bit and it also pushes the body a

> > bit more toward hypoglycemia, which people with adrenal fatigue

> > already have a problem with. So, if you have adrenal fatigue and

low

> > cortisol levels, progesterone can worsen the situation for some

> > people. For me it makes my life miserable.

> > _______________________

> >

> >>

> >>>> I am currently taking 4 grains of thyroid. It seems to me that

> > the mornings

> >> where I start out with taking 3 grains right off the bat, my

temps

> > will hit

> >> 98.6 for a few hours, then soon drops back down to the 97's.

> > ______________________--

> >

> > Bet your temperature tanks some time following 4 hours after your

> > big 10 mg IsoCort dose. When cortisol goes too low, temperature

> > drops hugely. 3 grains in the morning is giving you quite a big

> > adrenal stress, also. Then taking 10 mg of cortisol in the

evening

> > is causing you to burn up more thyroid, but then, your dose is

> > apparently much smaller or tiny in comparison. This is another

> > adrenal stress. The body actually needs a little more thyroid at

> > night. Most people take equal thyroid doses in the morning and

> > night. I take slightly more at night and this helps me sleep

better.

> > They body actually needs a little more thyroid at night. But for

> > sure, I think you need to work on balancing out your thyroid

doses

> > and your adrenal support. When you take a great big dose of

thyroid

> > in the morning, you are getting too much T3 in the blood at one

> > time. The liver will deactivate some of it to try and get T3

levels

> > more normal. So, in a way, it's more wastefull of T3 to take too

big

> > of a dose at once.

> >

> > In adrenal fatigue, it is hard on the adrenals to get big T3

spikes

> > in the blood. It would be better if you could spread out your

> > thyroid doses more evenly. I would suggest you do two equal

doses a

> > day minimum or better yet 3 equal doses every 8 hours. This works

> > out to one in the morning, one in the early afternoon and one at

> > bedtime. I think you need to balance out your dosing so blood

levels

> > of hormones stay constant in the blood as much as possible. This

is

> > much better for the adrenals overall and for your whole body -

> > closer to normal thyroid function. But, you may find if you make

> > your doses equal that you will need a slightly higher daily

thyroid

> > dose overall or more than 4 grains.

> > __________________

>

> >

[Guest guest]

>>Dr. Ray Peat has suggested

that some people nibble on a cytomel tablet all day as a way to keep

T3 levels constant <<

That is SO true! The Cytomel I take I take in four doses but I have a bottle of

Cytomel at work at all times. If I feel a slump in energy starting due to extra

stress or just plain ornery dogs to groom or huge dogs, I take a bit more and it

is gone within 10 minutes. Sometimes I have to take as much as an extra 12.5 MCG

during a very busy or stressful day.

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/26/2005 4:59:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

artisticgroom@... writes:

> If I feel a slump in energy starting due to extra stress or just plain

> ornery dogs to groom or huge dogs, I take a bit more and it is gone within 10

> minutes

i have tried this about three times in the last two weeks when all of a

sudden in the afternoon i felt really tired and unable to do anything..i have

taken

a 1/2 cytomel...and i'm telling ya - it works great.

cindi

[Guest guest]

on 2/26/05 1:30 PM, lkwetter at saltillo@... wrote:

>

>

> If you think about how a healthy thyroid works, it puts out small

> amounts of thyroid hormone every hour. So, all day, thryoid levels

> are farily constant. They go up with increasing activity and other

> things, but there is a baseline constancy to it. So, any time you

> can mimick nature you are better off. Dr. Ray Peat has suggested

> that some people nibble on a cytomel tablet all day as a way to keep

> T3 levels constant all day and in this way you can improve how you

> feel because you don't have wide swings in blood levels. So, I don't

> see a problem with 4 doses a day. But, if 3 grains is enough to

> handle your first 12 hours, then is 1 grain enough for the next 12

> hours?

That's what I kept wondering....

>So, if you switch to more doses that are the same in the day

> and spaced out evenly in the day, you might find you need a bit more

> thyroid overall. But, the only way to know is to try. Some people

> have reported they feel better with a little more thyroid in the

> morning. But, it seems to me your big difference between morning and

> evening is a bit too big of a differnce. Also your body can use all

> of the T3 if it's spaced out more evenly and your liver will not be

> detoxifying or breaking down some of it in the morning because it is

> too high from such a big one time dose. T3 has a short life in the

> system and gets used up fairly quickly.

That's it. I am gong to evenly dose...and also consider the CYTOMEL

nibbling. I will ask my dowser on that one

Thanks,

Inga

>

> Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This makes so much sense, and it boggles the mind. The problem being it

makes common sense and unfortunately the types that go to med school,

probably don't have much common sense about them.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

If you think about how a healthy thyroid works, it puts out small

amounts of thyroid hormone every hour. So, all day, thryoid levels

are farily constant. They go up with increasing activity and other m

Sheila Bliesath

StarGate Travel

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