Reply to Tish re; New Labs

[Guest guest]

I don't think these old sources are wrong.

__________________

I agree. Back then they adjusted medication by how the patient felt

and how heatlhy they appeared along with other physical measures.

This worked quite well for considerably more years than the new

lower dose methods of today. Nobody has ever looked at whether the

patient did better long-term on the new lower doses compared to the

older higher doses. It's amazing to me that they could make this

change without anything to back it up or to make sure the change was

wise. Just trusting that the TSH test was more accurate is hardly

good enough.

Tish

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish,

Thank you for all the sources you cited in support of the contention that 3

to 5 grains daily is the normal thyroid output. I presume you're talking

about dessicated thyroid doses. The abstracts for three of the authors,

Derry, Fowler, and Selenkow & Hoffman (ed), referred to quantities of

thyroxine, and I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

However, the last piece, by Greer, did use dessicated thyroid in their

research, so their work supports your contention. Do you think you could

conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on dosages less

than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has something

else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or nutritional

imbalances?

In addition to the idea of needing 3 to 5 grains dessicated thyroid daily

spinning my head around, I'm also reeling from the research that gnattygrl

presented showing that the half-life of T3 is at least 24 hours. As others

have mentioned, I've split my 1 1/2 grains daily TCL total into three doses,

because I used to really drag in the afternoon otherwise. My eye lids would

feel like they were as heavy as cement blocks. I wonder if some of us have

an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3 prematurely.

After having a thyroglossal cyst removed at age 2 (evidence of congenital

thyroid malformation), and 55 years of thyroid supplementation, I have no

doubt I've been underdosed much of the time, and according to my hair

analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal cortex

supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood pressure

is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for my heart

palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-Info yahoo

groups? If so, I've always been impressed with your contributions. I'm

glad I found you again here.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish,

Thank you for all the sources you cited in support of the contention that 3

to 5 grains daily is the normal thyroid output. I presume you're talking

about dessicated thyroid doses. The abstracts for three of the authors,

Derry, Fowler, and Selenkow & Hoffman (ed), referred to quantities of

thyroxine, and I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

However, the last piece, by Greer, did use dessicated thyroid in their

research, so their work supports your contention. Do you think you could

conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on dosages less

than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has something

else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or nutritional

imbalances?

In addition to the idea of needing 3 to 5 grains dessicated thyroid daily

spinning my head around, I'm also reeling from the research that gnattygrl

presented showing that the half-life of T3 is at least 24 hours. As others

have mentioned, I've split my 1 1/2 grains daily TCL total into three doses,

because I used to really drag in the afternoon otherwise. My eye lids would

feel like they were as heavy as cement blocks. I wonder if some of us have

an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3 prematurely.

After having a thyroglossal cyst removed at age 2 (evidence of congenital

thyroid malformation), and 55 years of thyroid supplementation, I have no

doubt I've been underdosed much of the time, and according to my hair

analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal cortex

supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood pressure

is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for my heart

palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-Info yahoo

groups? If so, I've always been impressed with your contributions. I'm

glad I found you again here.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish,

Thank you for all the sources you cited in support of the contention that 3

to 5 grains daily is the normal thyroid output. I presume you're talking

about dessicated thyroid doses. The abstracts for three of the authors,

Derry, Fowler, and Selenkow & Hoffman (ed), referred to quantities of

thyroxine, and I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

However, the last piece, by Greer, did use dessicated thyroid in their

research, so their work supports your contention. Do you think you could

conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on dosages less

than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has something

else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or nutritional

imbalances?

In addition to the idea of needing 3 to 5 grains dessicated thyroid daily

spinning my head around, I'm also reeling from the research that gnattygrl

presented showing that the half-life of T3 is at least 24 hours. As others

have mentioned, I've split my 1 1/2 grains daily TCL total into three doses,

because I used to really drag in the afternoon otherwise. My eye lids would

feel like they were as heavy as cement blocks. I wonder if some of us have

an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3 prematurely.

After having a thyroglossal cyst removed at age 2 (evidence of congenital

thyroid malformation), and 55 years of thyroid supplementation, I have no

doubt I've been underdosed much of the time, and according to my hair

analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal cortex

supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood pressure

is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for my heart

palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-Info yahoo

groups? If so, I've always been impressed with your contributions. I'm

glad I found you again here.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

> being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

___________________________________

As a rule they are not. Synthroid is less well abosorbed in the

stomach and so it will often take more Synthroid than the equivelent

Armour to get the same blood levels. But,if you want to convert

Synthroid or Thyroxine to an equivlent Armour dose, just take any

thyroxine number and divide by 74. Or:

74 mcg or ug thyroxine = 1 grain of Armour

This is very rough as each person has their own individual equivlent

and it doesn't take into account poor absorption.

_________________

Do you think you could

> conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on

dosages less

> than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has

something

> else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or

nutritional

> imbalances?

________________

I think this is true as a general rule. But, there are exceptions.

About 20% of all people fall outside the normal ranges on tests and

this means about 10% of people will naturally need less than 3

grains and naturally run on a little less thyroid. Also, some people

with very good pituitary function can get by on less than 3 grains

and will not have over suppression of the pituitary TSH. But, these

should not have a reaction to doses that approach full replacement

if their adrenal function and nutritional and health status are good.

__________________

I wonder if some of us have

> an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3

prematurely.

___________________

You bet. There are for sure people out there with auto-antibodes

attacking thryoid hormone in the blood and taking it out before it

can work. These people will need more thyroid to compensate for what

is being destroyed and to make sure there is enough to get into

tissues. Doctors like Young and Lowe have written about this.

____________________

> analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal

cortex

> supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood

pressure

> is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for

my heart

> palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

_______________________

This is probably true. Dr. Derry has written that the adrenals

will never work properly if thyroid levels are not right. According

to Werner and Ingbar's " The Thyroid " the adrenals are dependent on

proper thyroid hormone levels for them to work properly. When

thyroid is too low for long enough, the adrenals become weak. Their

size and output is determined to a large extent by thyroid levels.

So, getting your thyroid right will fix the adrenals in most cases.

But, the adrenals will take at least a year longer to fulley recover

after getting thyroid right.

I had good temps on 2 grains, but still was very hampered. I think

the body will try to maintain temps with low thyroid levels, but

will not be good at allowing you to have extra activity and demands.

Or, I mean the body will slow down so that it can maintain temps

when thyroid is low or be frugal. This is just my theory from my

own experience.

_______________

>

> Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-

Info yahoo

> groups?

______________

Yup, I'm that person.

Good luck. I had such adrenal problems and could only tolerate 1/8th

grain raises at a time and had to wait about 4 weeks before I could

tolerate another raise. My adrenals were such a mess when I was on 2

grains. Once I got to 3 grains, they took a big leap forward and I

soon found I could walk downtown again without having to medicate

for it. My life just so totally changed when I got my dose up to one

that was best for me.

Tish

[Guest guest]

I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

> being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

___________________________________

As a rule they are not. Synthroid is less well abosorbed in the

stomach and so it will often take more Synthroid than the equivelent

Armour to get the same blood levels. But,if you want to convert

Synthroid or Thyroxine to an equivlent Armour dose, just take any

thyroxine number and divide by 74. Or:

74 mcg or ug thyroxine = 1 grain of Armour

This is very rough as each person has their own individual equivlent

and it doesn't take into account poor absorption.

_________________

Do you think you could

> conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on

dosages less

> than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has

something

> else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or

nutritional

> imbalances?

________________

I think this is true as a general rule. But, there are exceptions.

About 20% of all people fall outside the normal ranges on tests and

this means about 10% of people will naturally need less than 3

grains and naturally run on a little less thyroid. Also, some people

with very good pituitary function can get by on less than 3 grains

and will not have over suppression of the pituitary TSH. But, these

should not have a reaction to doses that approach full replacement

if their adrenal function and nutritional and health status are good.

__________________

I wonder if some of us have

> an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3

prematurely.

___________________

You bet. There are for sure people out there with auto-antibodes

attacking thryoid hormone in the blood and taking it out before it

can work. These people will need more thyroid to compensate for what

is being destroyed and to make sure there is enough to get into

tissues. Doctors like Young and Lowe have written about this.

____________________

> analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal

cortex

> supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood

pressure

> is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for

my heart

> palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

_______________________

This is probably true. Dr. Derry has written that the adrenals

will never work properly if thyroid levels are not right. According

to Werner and Ingbar's " The Thyroid " the adrenals are dependent on

proper thyroid hormone levels for them to work properly. When

thyroid is too low for long enough, the adrenals become weak. Their

size and output is determined to a large extent by thyroid levels.

So, getting your thyroid right will fix the adrenals in most cases.

But, the adrenals will take at least a year longer to fulley recover

after getting thyroid right.

I had good temps on 2 grains, but still was very hampered. I think

the body will try to maintain temps with low thyroid levels, but

will not be good at allowing you to have extra activity and demands.

Or, I mean the body will slow down so that it can maintain temps

when thyroid is low or be frugal. This is just my theory from my

own experience.

_______________

>

> Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-

Info yahoo

> groups?

______________

Yup, I'm that person.

Good luck. I had such adrenal problems and could only tolerate 1/8th

grain raises at a time and had to wait about 4 weeks before I could

tolerate another raise. My adrenals were such a mess when I was on 2

grains. Once I got to 3 grains, they took a big leap forward and I

soon found I could walk downtown again without having to medicate

for it. My life just so totally changed when I got my dose up to one

that was best for me.

Tish

[Guest guest]

I have difficulty accepting their thyroxine quantities as

> being equivalent to dessicated thyroid quantities.

___________________________________

As a rule they are not. Synthroid is less well abosorbed in the

stomach and so it will often take more Synthroid than the equivelent

Armour to get the same blood levels. But,if you want to convert

Synthroid or Thyroxine to an equivlent Armour dose, just take any

thyroxine number and divide by 74. Or:

74 mcg or ug thyroxine = 1 grain of Armour

This is very rough as each person has their own individual equivlent

and it doesn't take into account poor absorption.

_________________

Do you think you could

> conclude that if a person shows signs of hyperthyroidism on

dosages less

> than 3 grains, that is prima facie evidence that the person has

something

> else wrong with them, such as adrenal insufficiency, anemia, or

nutritional

> imbalances?

________________

I think this is true as a general rule. But, there are exceptions.

About 20% of all people fall outside the normal ranges on tests and

this means about 10% of people will naturally need less than 3

grains and naturally run on a little less thyroid. Also, some people

with very good pituitary function can get by on less than 3 grains

and will not have over suppression of the pituitary TSH. But, these

should not have a reaction to doses that approach full replacement

if their adrenal function and nutritional and health status are good.

__________________

I wonder if some of us have

> an anti-thyroid factor in our bodies that kills off our T3

prematurely.

___________________

You bet. There are for sure people out there with auto-antibodes

attacking thryoid hormone in the blood and taking it out before it

can work. These people will need more thyroid to compensate for what

is being destroyed and to make sure there is enough to get into

tissues. Doctors like Young and Lowe have written about this.

____________________

> analysis in adrenal exhausation now, despite being on adrenal

cortex

> supplementation for 4 years. My temperatures are good, but blood

pressure

> is about 100/60, so it's probably adrenal issues that account for

my heart

> palpitations when I try to increase my thyroid dose again.

_______________________

This is probably true. Dr. Derry has written that the adrenals

will never work properly if thyroid levels are not right. According

to Werner and Ingbar's " The Thyroid " the adrenals are dependent on

proper thyroid hormone levels for them to work properly. When

thyroid is too low for long enough, the adrenals become weak. Their

size and output is determined to a large extent by thyroid levels.

So, getting your thyroid right will fix the adrenals in most cases.

But, the adrenals will take at least a year longer to fulley recover

after getting thyroid right.

I had good temps on 2 grains, but still was very hampered. I think

the body will try to maintain temps with low thyroid levels, but

will not be good at allowing you to have extra activity and demands.

Or, I mean the body will slow down so that it can maintain temps

when thyroid is low or be frugal. This is just my theory from my

own experience.

_______________

>

> Are you the same Tish that's been on the Healing Crow and Coconut-

Info yahoo

> groups?

______________

Yup, I'm that person.

Good luck. I had such adrenal problems and could only tolerate 1/8th

grain raises at a time and had to wait about 4 weeks before I could

tolerate another raise. My adrenals were such a mess when I was on 2

grains. Once I got to 3 grains, they took a big leap forward and I

soon found I could walk downtown again without having to medicate

for it. My life just so totally changed when I got my dose up to one

that was best for me.

Tish