Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim

describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at

times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly

taking a whole liver from a " living " donor? As a for instance, Klug got

his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient

had no choice.

in Ohio

>

> Mairi,

>

>

>

> In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the

> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the

> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is

> not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most

> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Chaim Boermeester, Israel

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of mairi grant

> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43

> To:

> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim

describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at

times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly

taking a whole liver from a " living " donor? As a for instance, Klug got

his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient

had no choice.

in Ohio

>

> Mairi,

>

>

>

> In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the

> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the

> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is

> not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most

> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Chaim Boermeester, Israel

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of mairi grant

> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43

> To:

> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree with that.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:30:41 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a "living" donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice. in Ohio>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is> not

enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > > > _____ > > From: @ yahoogroups. com [mailto:@ yahoogroups. com] On> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree with that.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:30:41 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a "living" donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice. in Ohio>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is> not

enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > > > _____ > > From: @ yahoogroups. com [mailto:@ yahoogroups. com] On> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I disagree with that.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 6:30:41 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a "living" donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice. in Ohio>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is> not

enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > > > _____ > > From: @ yahoogroups. com [mailto:@ yahoogroups. com] On> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I think that most christain consider a person that is brain dead as dead, In most living donor liver transplants the donor continues to live and thrive after transplant.

 

Ian 

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a " living " donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice.

in Ohio

>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is

> not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel

> > > > _____ > > From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To:

> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > > >

-- Ian Cribb  P.Eng.cell:  (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

I think that most christain consider a person that is brain dead as dead, In most living donor liver transplants the donor continues to live and thrive after transplant.

 

Ian 

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a " living " donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice.

in Ohio

>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is

> not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel

> > > > _____ > > From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To:

> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > > >

-- Ian Cribb  P.Eng.cell:  (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

I think that most christain consider a person that is brain dead as dead, In most living donor liver transplants the donor continues to live and thrive after transplant.

 

Ian 

Hi all, It seems that many (most?) Christians define life in the same manner as Chaim describes as Judaic--perhaps even more broadly than just having a heartbeat at times. So my question is, how do Christians deal with the ethics of possibly taking a whole liver from a " living " donor? As a for instance, Klug got his liver from a brain dead child. The child had no choice, and the recipient had no choice.

in Ohio

>> Mairi,> > > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of the> dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death is

> not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in most> cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > > > Regards,> > > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel

> > > > _____ > > From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of mairi grant> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> To:

> Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > > >

-- Ian Cribb  P.Eng.cell:  (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as

actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those

without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family

must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >

> > > Mairi,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the

> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the

> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death

> > is

> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most

> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: [mailto:

> > ] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant

> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43

> > > To:

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Ian Cribb P.Eng.

> cell: (6...

> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer

> www.enefen.com

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as

actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those

without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family

must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >

> > > Mairi,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the

> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the

> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death

> > is

> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most

> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: [mailto:

> > ] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant

> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43

> > > To:

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Ian Cribb P.Eng.

> cell: (6...

> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer

> www.enefen.com

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have any numbers, but I believe most cadaver livers come from some one who died in a motor vehicle accident and their hearts had stopped before their organs were donated to save the life of others. It is hard that someone else has died, but they have died and their organs can live on in another. The number of livers from " brain dead " people would be very small.

 

Ian (53) PSC 89 

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: <%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:

> > <%40yahoogroups.com>] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: <%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >

> -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com

>

-- Ian Cribb  P.Eng.cell:  (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

I don't have any numbers, but I believe most cadaver livers come from some one who died in a motor vehicle accident and their hearts had stopped before their organs were donated to save the life of others. It is hard that someone else has died, but they have died and their organs can live on in another. The number of livers from " brain dead " people would be very small.

 

Ian (53) PSC 89 

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: <%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:

> > <%40yahoogroups.com>] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: <%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >

> -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com

>

-- Ian Cribb  P.Eng.cell:  (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

My understanding (which matches this article) is that the vast majority of organ donors have suffered brain death (not cardiac death). (Although the article indicates that the number of organ donors from cardiac death is increasing after years of being very low - and the organs that can be used after a cardiac death include livers and kidneys.) http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/ , Mom to 18 yo daughter UC 6/95, PSC 3/09To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:09:27 PMSubject: Re: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

I don't have any numbers, but I believe most cadaver livers come from some one who died in a motor vehicle accident and their hearts had stopped before their organs were donated to save the life of others. It is hard that someone else has died, but they have died and their organs can live on in another. The number of livers from "brain dead" people would be very small.

Ian (53) PSC 89

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:

> > @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >

> -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com

>

-- Ian Cribb P.Eng.cell: (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

My understanding (which matches this article) is that the vast majority of organ donors have suffered brain death (not cardiac death). (Although the article indicates that the number of organ donors from cardiac death is increasing after years of being very low - and the organs that can be used after a cardiac death include livers and kidneys.) http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/ , Mom to 18 yo daughter UC 6/95, PSC 3/09To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:09:27 PMSubject: Re: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

I don't have any numbers, but I believe most cadaver livers come from some one who died in a motor vehicle accident and their hearts had stopped before their organs were donated to save the life of others. It is hard that someone else has died, but they have died and their organs can live on in another. The number of livers from "brain dead" people would be very small.

Ian (53) PSC 89

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:

> > @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >

> -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com

>

-- Ian Cribb P.Eng.cell: (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

My understanding (which matches this article) is that the vast majority of organ donors have suffered brain death (not cardiac death). (Although the article indicates that the number of organ donors from cardiac death is increasing after years of being very low - and the organs that can be used after a cardiac death include livers and kidneys.) http://www.organtransplants.org/understanding/death/ , Mom to 18 yo daughter UC 6/95, PSC 3/09To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:09:27 PMSubject: Re: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

I don't have any numbers, but I believe most cadaver livers come from some one who died in a motor vehicle accident and their hearts had stopped before their organs were donated to save the life of others. It is hard that someone else has died, but they have died and their organs can live on in another. The number of livers from "brain dead" people would be very small.

Ian (53) PSC 89

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

> > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of

> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in

> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >

> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:

> > @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>] On

> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <%40yahoogroups. com>

> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >

> -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com

>

-- Ian Cribb P.Eng.cell: (6...Enefen - Reviewer/Designerwww.enefen.com

[Guest guest]

I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. > > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for

Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:> > @

yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>] On> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com>

[Guest guest]

I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. > > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for

Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:> > @

yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>] On> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com>

[Guest guest]

I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. > > >> > > Mairi,> > >> > >> > >> > > In Judaism it is considered a great commandment to donate the organs of> > the> > > dead to save a life. The problem for

Judaism is that according to the> > > scripture a person is dead only when his heart stops beating. Brain death> > is> > > not enough for a rabbi to declare someone deceased. This means that in> > most> > > cases organ donation is impossible or not practical.> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > >> > >> > >> > > Chaim Boermeester, Israel> > >> > >> > >> > > _____> > >> > > From: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>[mailto:> > @

yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>] On> > > Behalf Of mairi grant> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 01:43> > > To: @ yahoogroups. com <% 40yahoogroups. com>> > > Subject: what does bible say about organ donation> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > > -- > Ian Cribb P.Eng.> cell: (6...> Enefen - Reviewer/Designer> www.enefen.com>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori,

It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more

limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding

was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the

recipients--can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong.

For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure

out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead,

but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly

why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue

to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for

my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than

that.

>

> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try

to play God and decide when someone should die.  Brain dead or not they are

still alive in my opinion.  I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures

that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

>  

> Lori A.

>  

> " Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs! "

>  

> First Weber Group

> Cell:

> 1507 E. Sunset Drive

> Waukesha, WI  53189

> LoriUSA@...

> www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

>  

> Click here

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: scotty73ohio

> To:

> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM

> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical

question

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as

actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those

without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family

must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori,

It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more

limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding

was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the

recipients--can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong.

For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure

out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead,

but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly

why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue

to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for

my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than

that.

>

> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try

to play God and decide when someone should die.  Brain dead or not they are

still alive in my opinion.  I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures

that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

>  

> Lori A.

>  

> " Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs! "

>  

> First Weber Group

> Cell:

> 1507 E. Sunset Drive

> Waukesha, WI  53189

> LoriUSA@...

> www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

>  

> Click here

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: scotty73ohio

> To:

> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM

> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical

question

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as

actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those

without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family

must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori,

It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more

limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding

was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the

recipients--can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong.

For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure

out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead,

but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly

why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue

to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for

my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than

that.

>

> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try

to play God and decide when someone should die.  Brain dead or not they are

still alive in my opinion.  I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures

that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.

>  

> Lori A.

>  

> " Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs! "

>  

> First Weber Group

> Cell:

> 1507 E. Sunset Drive

> Waukesha, WI  53189

> LoriUSA@...

> www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

>  

> Click here

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: scotty73ohio

> To:

> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM

> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical

question

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as

actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those

without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family

must lose something for me to live. It's hard.

>

[Guest guest]

That is an interesting question. I belong to this group for my Dad who has PSC. Until now I did not think any livers would come from people alive. I thought they came from people who just died or people they expect to die very soon. I do not agree with assisted suicide. I don't want to offend anyone on this site but everyone has their own convictions. I guess, if we don't know that the liver came from someone alive I would not be intentionally sinning or going against my conscience.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:26:22 AMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi Lori,It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the recipients-- can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong. For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead, but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than that. >> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.> > Lori A. > > "Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"> > First Weber Group> Cell: > 1507 E. Sunset Drive> Waukesha, WI 53189> LoriUSA@ ...> www.Lori.FirstWeber .com> > Click here> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> From: scotty73ohio <scottandlizg@ ...>> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question> > > > > > Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. >

[Guest guest]

That is an interesting question. I belong to this group for my Dad who has PSC. Until now I did not think any livers would come from people alive. I thought they came from people who just died or people they expect to die very soon. I do not agree with assisted suicide. I don't want to offend anyone on this site but everyone has their own convictions. I guess, if we don't know that the liver came from someone alive I would not be intentionally sinning or going against my conscience.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:26:22 AMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi Lori,It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the recipients-- can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong. For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead, but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than that. >> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.> > Lori A. > > "Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"> > First Weber Group> Cell: > 1507 E. Sunset Drive> Waukesha, WI 53189> LoriUSA@ ...> www.Lori.FirstWeber .com> > Click here> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> From: scotty73ohio <scottandlizg@ ...>> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question> > > > > > Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. >

[Guest guest]

That is an interesting question. I belong to this group for my Dad who has PSC. Until now I did not think any livers would come from people alive. I thought they came from people who just died or people they expect to die very soon. I do not agree with assisted suicide. I don't want to offend anyone on this site but everyone has their own convictions. I guess, if we don't know that the liver came from someone alive I would not be intentionally sinning or going against my conscience.

Lori A.

"Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"

First Weber Group

Cell:

1507 E. Sunset Drive

Waukesha, WI 53189

LoriUSA@...

www.Lori.FirstWeber.com

Click here

To: Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 6:26:22 AMSubject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question

Hi Lori,It looks like your cunnundrum is more difficult than mine: your options are more limited. Do you have a plan for when/if you need a transplant? My understanding was that the sources of the livers available are kept secret from the recipients-- can't choose where it came from. I might be wrong. For myself, I'm curious about these questions because I'm still trying to figure out why I'm troubled by it. I tend to agree with Ian that brain dead is dead, but I still don't feel entirely comfortable. I'm working on formulating exactly why. I'm reasonable enough to realize that people die, and people will continue to die regardless of my condition. However, the idea that someone MUST die for my continued survival is what gets me. Sorry I can't explain it better than that. >> I am a christian and I disagree. I think we are on dangerous ground if we try to play God and decide when someone should die. Brain dead or not they are still alive in my opinion. I can't really think of anywhere in the scriptures that would disagree with me. Just my 2 cents.> > Lori A. > > "Aggressively Pursuing Solutions To Your Real Estate Needs!"> > First Weber Group> Cell: > 1507 E. Sunset Drive> Waukesha, WI 53189> LoriUSA@ ...> www.Lori.FirstWeber .com> > Click here> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> From: scotty73ohio <scottandlizg@ ...>> To: @ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:37:50 PM> Subject: Re: what does bible say about organ donation: Ethical question> > > > > > Thanks, Ian. It didn't occur to me that most Christians accept brain death as actual death. It seemed incongruent with other fights for life--even for those without brains. I've been struggling with the whole situation: some other family must lose something for me to live. It's hard. >

[Guest guest]

I've had a transplant (from a brain-dead donor) so I've thought through

this issue quite a bit. I think there are two things that helped me

come to terms with it.

First, people tend to think about it as " someone had to die so I could

get this transplant " . In a way that's true, but it implies a

cause-effect relationship, as in " I was sick, so that person had to

die " . There is a cause-effect relationship, but that's not it. The

actual cause is the person's (and their family's) decision to be an

organ donor. The effect is that someone else gets a transplant instead

of dying. So it's not really right to feel as though your transplant

caused a person's death.

Second, I think about what would have happened if that person hadn't

donated their organs. One of two things could have happened: They

could have been left on life support indefinitely, until their family

ran out of money to pay for it or until their body shut down of it's own

accord, or they would have been taken off life support and their body

would have died (their brain was already dead) then. So even if you

have a hard time looking at someone with a beating heart as dead, its

not like donating their organs has changed anything for them, and in the

absence of our modern medicine, they would have died already (in most

cases).

I guess the only other thing I have to add to this is that almost all

Christian denominations support organ donation. There are a few

Christians who disagree, but that's a very, very small minority. The

Bible doesn't say anything that directly applies to the situation, but

it does have an awful lot to say about helping those in need, and I

think people who agree to be organ donors are fulfilling those commands.

athan