Re: WARNING About Taking Steroid Treatment!

[Guest guest]

I can testify to what she is saying. I have adrenal fatigue (my doctor

tested me) and I have not been able to wean off yet. I am scheduled to

speak to the doctor about it today. I will say that I have been on the

group for a year now and many other thyroid groups and I have NOT

found anyone that has ever gotten completely off of steriods. There are a

host of problems that it creates... first your immune system weakens(I don't

care what doctors tell you...it does), you have crashes due to only getting

the minimal amount of steriods (normal human makes about 40mg and you only

get 20mg), you have significant bone loss, and many other side effects that

are not welcome. I would say that it's better than how I felt because I was

with extreme crashes that would not allow me to function...so it's either

don't function or deal with the side effects. I have been dealing with the

side effects. Even though I'm on replacement dosages I have a prime

expample where I had tests run (I was in a flare up when she took my blood)

and it showed on my blood work that my Cortisol was very low compared to the

9 months of being stable on the drugs. I had taken my medicine and either

my body used it all up or it was going into what they call a crisis. Either

way... this is an example of how even with Cortef, your body can go into a

crisis. This is why I had to follow up and share with you guys how SERIOUS

taking steriod replacement is. Please get the testing you need before self

dosing, it's dangerous!

Be Well!

LaCretia

>

>

>this debate goes on and on. In my opinion first and foremost, you shouldn't

>take steroids unless REALLY needed. Being undermedicated on thyroid meds

>makes you have a small amount of adrenal fatigue that goes away when you

>reach your proper level. All of us should have adrenal testing prior to

>taking any thyroid med, and testing ferritin and hormones and vitamin

>levels with ALWAYS including b-12 and folate! Having had multiple eye

>surgeries, I can tell you that steroids can mask a lot of problems and with

>this new eye stuff I had, my eye DR was refusing to do the surgery till my

>endo wrote him a disclaimer notice since I am forced to take a type of

>steroid. Typical of steroids, I did have a great deal of bleeding from what

>should have been almost a bloodless surgery so again, I am very anemic.

>Bright lights can be a sign of fatigue, vitamin A issues, astigmatism,

>dehydration, vitamin C issues, underthreated thyroid, lupus, arthritis, any

>connective tissue disease, etc. Taking a medication like cortef unless you

>need it can be a lifelong issue that you will have to deal with. Most of

>the people on the lists that have started steroids have been unable to get

>off them. If I were you I would let your DR know you are on cortef and ask

>him to wean you off and test you. JMHO

> Re: Help, I may have damaged my

> eye!!

> >

> >

> > Don;t think mine is cataracts I have been like this for 15 years.

> No better and only slightly worse eyesight. Normal for my age...

> > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> >

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypoki\

tties/>http://groups.yahoo.com/grohttp://groups.yahoo.com/gro>

> up/hypokitties/>

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

LaCretia, Where are you with your thyroid dosage in all this? Are you having

hypo symptoms still or do you feel you are at a high enough dosage and if so

what is that dosage?

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

[Guest guest]

Where are you with your thyroid dosage in all this?

_______________________

I agree here. It will be impossible to get off steroids if thyroid

is not optimized. This I can say from my own experience. Also, when

thyroid is low, you get all kinds of poblems with stress and other

things. It's like your whole system has a very tiny window of

operation. You are more impaired adrenally when thyroid is low. This

is because the adrenals must try to pick up the job of thyroid

hormone, when thyroid is low. This includes, increasing conversion

of T4, increasing glucose for energy, regulation of the heart and

many other things needed to provide energy to the system when

thyroid is inadequate.

I would like to add a bit of reality here and say that your immune

system goes down cortisol if it is too low or too high. It is not a

cross the board thing. If you read up on the function of cortisol,

you will find that those who do not have enough are sick all the

time and those that have too much are sick all the time. 's

patients have a much different situation than the more mild

underfunction found in thyroid patients. They produce almost no

cortisone and so must fight with finding the right doses for their

needs. This is very difficult. Cortisol demands are in flux all day,

or dynamic, in healthy people and can change from minute to minute

along with having very wide swings up in situations like a stress in

the office. It is extreemly difficult to get replacement that works

for all situations. They easily get into situations of insufficient

dose or excess dose. Add on top of that, the fact that doctors today

do the same thing with 's patients that they do with thyroid

patients - they tend to undermedicate them. This leaves them with

very impaired lives and of course sick all the time with low immune

function. They also tend to prescribe hormones that are not

identicle to human hormones and this creates problems in the body

because cortisol is needed for countless uses in the body. When you

have a man made hormone, it is not going to work properly in some

situations. This could also leed to suppression of immune function

among other things.

Prednisone and other man-made steroids can hardly replace the real

thing in a complex biological cycle where cortisol is called on to

perform a great many tasks requiring an exact chemistry to do the

job properly.

Even cortef, varies from human cortisol slightly. It shares more in

common with levoxyl in that it has a sodium and acetate added to it.

These things complicate life for 's patients. Lots of studies

done on non-addisons patients put on steroids for other reasons show

that they almost all get off eventually. Many have to go very slowly-

1 mg at a time over months. But, these people you will not see on an

's site. They would be on Arthritis and other inflammatory

disease sites. So, visiting an 's site is not going to give

you an accurate big picture of steroid use in the general population.

You are right that there are risks with steroids. But, it is not as

dire as you present it. I have seen one study done with Prednisone

that found all the several hundred patients were able to get off but

one. These are people put on doses that exceed their own adrenal

production. People on low dose replacement still have 2/3 to 1/2 of

their own production, both from the adrenal gland and the pituitary.

So, if it is impossible for the adrenal to return to normal from

that, it would then be impossible to build up adrenal function from

excercise or physical training. We know that this is not true. The

adrenals must grow and adapt to physical training. They do this all

the time. They adapt and grow from stress and any long term

increased demand. So, it seems that they can very likely return to

normal with slow withdrawal of the hormone. This is even talked

about in very old medical texts where people were given huge doses.

Even these people were abe to get off.

Tish

[Guest guest]

Here are just a few papers. There are many more. As you can see

people don't fare well with either excess or too little adrenal

function. Proper levels of cortisone are needed for health.

Tish

____________________________

Am J Med. 1993 Sep;95(3):258-64. Related Articles, Links

Recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis in

patients with rheumatic diseases receiving low-dose prednisone.

LaRochelle GE Jr, LaRochelle AG, Ratner RE, Borenstein DG.

Division of Rheumatology, Washington University Medical

Center, Washington, D.C. 20037.

PURPOSE: To assess the status of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal

(HPA) axis in cortico-steroid-treated patients whose prednisone dose

had been tapered to physiologic doses. PATIENTS AND METHODS: The

design of the study was a retrospective chart review of 50

consecutive patients receiving 10 mg or less of prednisone daily at

a university teaching hospital rheumatology clinic. Patients were

given a rapid adrenocorticotropic hormone stimulation test, with

cortisol levels obtained at baseline and after intravenous

administration of cosyntropin. Charts were reviewed for duration of

therapy, highest, current, and total cumulative steroid dose, and

average daily steroid dose in each month of the preceding 2 years.

RESULTS: Current steroid dose was the only significant indicator of

HPA axis function. Patients receiving less than 5 mg of prednisone

daily had a normal HPA axis response, whereas those receiving 5 mg

or more had widely varied responses. Neither the total, the highest

prednisone dose, nor the duration of therapy was a significant

indicator of HPA axis recovery. CONCLUSIONS: Spontaneous recovery of

the HPA axis is usual for patients who are taking prednisone at

daily doses of 5 mg or less. Return of normal HPA axis function can

be achieved without alternate-day therapy in patients whose disease

allows tapering to daily prednisone doses of 5 mg or less.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 8368224 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

______________________________

Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(4):575-81. Related Articles, Links

Cortisol abnormality as a cause of elevated estrogen and immune

destabilization: insights for human medicine from a veterinary

perspective.

Plechner AJ.

California Animals Hospital, 1736 S Sepulveda Boulevard, Suite C,

Los Angeles, CA 90025, USA. info@...

For more than 35 years the author has treated multiple serious

diseases in cats and dogs by correcting an unrecognized endocrine-

immune imbalance originating with a deficiency or defect of

cortisol. The cortisol abnormality creates a domino effect on

feedback loops involving the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis. In

this scenario, estrogen becomes elevated, thyroid hormone becomes

bound, and B and T cells become deregulated. Diseases with this

aberration as a primary etiological component range from allergies

to severe cases of autoimmunity to cancer. The author has

consistently identified excess estrogen or " estrogen dominance " as

part of an endocrine-immune derangement present in many common

diseases of dogs and cats. Ninety-percent of these cases involve

spayed females and neutered or intact males, so the elevated

estrogen cannot be attributed to ovarian activity. The author

identifies the adrenal cortex as a source of the imbalance, which

produces a variety of vital hormones. The author has developed an

endocrine-immune blood test that measures cortisol, total estrogen,

T3 and T4, and IgA, IgG, and IgM antibody levels. The protocol for

corrective therapy involves the use of various cortisone

medications, either standard pharmaceutical compounds or a natural

bio-identical preparation made from an ultra extract of soy. The

author's clinical success and the growing clinical applications of

low-dosage cortisone therapy for humans strongly argue for sustained

research into the nature, magnitude, and impact of cortisol defects,

including an associated estrogen-immune problem, in the etiology of

disease.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 15050110 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

______________________________

Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am. 2003 Jun;32(2):367-83.

Perioperative management of patients treated with glucocorticoids.

Axelrod L.

Diabetes Unit, Bulfinch 408, Massachusetts General Hospital, 55

Fruit Street, Boston, MA 02114, USA. laxelrod@...

HPA suppression is a common consequence of glucocorticoid therapy,

whereas overt secondary adrenal insufficiency is a rare but life-

threatening condition. Prolonged hypotension and a response to

adequate doses of a glucocorticoid agent are not reliable ways to

assess adrenocortical function. One must also demonstrate plasma

cortisol levels that are inappropriately low for the clinical

situation. Hypotension in patients previously treated with

glucocorticoids is caused by loss of the permissive effect of

glucocorticoids on vascular tone, which may be related in turn to

enhanced PGI2 production in the absence of glucocorticoids. It is

not caused by mineralocorticoid deficiency. Recurrent problems of

study design and interpretation have plagued this area of

investigation. Any patient who has received a glucocorticoid in

doses equivalent to at least 20 mg a day of prednisone for more than

5 days is at risk for HPA suppression. If the doses are closer to

but above the physiologic range, 1 month is probably the minimal

interval. Recovery from prolonged exposure to high doses of

glucocorticoids may take up to 1 year. Pituitary function returns

before adrenocortical function. Recovery from short courses of

treatment (e.g., 5 days) occurs more rapidly, in about 5 days.

Recovery is time-dependent and spontaneous. The rate of recovery is

a function of the dose and duration of therapy before tapering is

started and while the dose is being reduced. ACTH therapy does not

cause adrenocortical suppression but offers no advantage over

glucocorticoids, has several disadvantages, and should no longer be

used. Patients on alternate day glucocorticoid therapy have some

suppression of basal cortisol levels but have normal or nearly

normal responses to provocative tests of adrenocortical function.

The standard short ACTH stimulation test is a reliable means of

assessing adrenocortical function preoperatively. The low dose (1

microgram) short ACTH test is promising but has not been

sufficiently well characterized, requires serial dilutions and

cannot be recommended at this time. Studies of the physiologic

adrenocortical response to surgical stress provide a basis for

revised dose recommendations for perioperative coverage in the

patient with known or suspected HPA suppression. Recommendations of

a multidisciplinary group are presented.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Academic

PMID: 12800537 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

_______________________

Sleep disturbances are correlated with decreased morning awakening

salivary cortisol

Jutta Backhaus, , Klaus Junghanns and Fritz Hohagen

Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, University of Luebeck,

Ratzeburger Allee 160, D-23538, Luebeck, Germany

Received 21 March 2003; Revised 23 January 2004; accepted 27

January 2004. Available online 10 March 2004.

Abstract

Morning and evening salivary cortisol levels were correlated with

sleep parameters in 14 patients with primary insomnia and 15 healthy

controls. Salivary cortisol was sampled immediately after awakening

(T1), 15 min later (T2), and immediately before going to bed (T3)

for 1 week at home. In parallel with this, subjects estimated

parameters of sleep in a daily sleep log. Patients and controls were

all non-smokers who did not differ regarding morning awakening time

or bedtime.

Cortisol after awakening was significantly decreased in primary

insomnia. Salivary cortisol at the time of awakening correlated

negatively with the subjective estimation of sleep quality, i.e. a

low salivary cortisol level directly after awakening correlated with

a higher frequency of nightly awakenings (r=−0.50), a diminished

sleep quality (r=−0.34) and a decreased feeling of recovery after

awakening (r=−0.35; all p<0.05). Furthermore, awakening cortisol was

negatively correlated with the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index

(r=−0.43) and with a questionnaire on sleep-related cognitions with

the subscales rumination in bed (r=−0.56) and focusing on sleep-

related thoughts (r=−0.46; all p<0.05).

Author Keywords: Salivary cortisol; Awakening cortisol; Awakening

time; Insomnia; Sleep; Sleep disturbances

___________________

http://www.pihealth.com/adrenal_glands_and_stress.htm

Dr. Van Dueck

6531 Woodwards Rd.

Richmand, B.C

Canada V7E 1H2

info@...

Newsletter » Stress-Related Illness and the Adrenal Glands

Newsletter May 14/03

Stress-Related Illness and the Adrenal Glands

Stress-related illnesses are very common today. Patients in this

category have a reaction to stress, which is either causing their

illness or aggravating it. It is well known that the adrenal glands

are the anti-stress glands of the body -- the reserve tank the body

falls back on when faced with stressful situations.

When the hypoadrenic patient becomes sick, he becomes sicker for a

longer period of time, and with a greater likelihood for recurrence

of the problem than if his adrenals were functioning at full

capacity.

The patient gets into a chronic state of ill health and that is when

we see him in our office.

___________________

Intern Med. 1995 Jun;34(6):559-63. Related Articles, Links

Improvement of hypothyroidism after glucocorticoid replacement in

isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.

Tamura M, Yokoyama N, Nishikawa T, Takeshita A, Kimura H, Ashizawa

K, Kiriyama T, Nagataki S.

First Department of Internal Medicine, Nagasaki University School of

Medicine.

We report a 50-year-old female who suffered from reversible

hypothyroidism accompanied by isolated ACTH deficiency. There were

no findings indicating a complication of autoimmune thyroiditis.

Replacement of maintenance dose of glucocorticoid not only led to

improvement of thyroid function, but also caused a transient

decrease in T3 and an increase in reverse T3, suggesting that

chronic cortisol deficiency may impair thyroid function, and that

the maintenance dose, as well as pharmacological doses of

glucocorticoids may influence T4 deiodination. The findings of this

case suggest that thyroid function should be re-evaluated to avoid

unnecessary replacement of thyroid hormone, a few months after

glucocorticoid replacement.

Publication Types:

Case Reports

PMID: 7549143 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

_____________________

Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1994 Jul;24(4):765-82.

Immunity and the endocrine system.

Greco DS, Harpold LM.

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine and

Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort .

In conclusion, interaction between the immune and endocrine systems

is highly complex. Generally, abnormalities of T suppressor cells, a

result of HLA antigen genetic abnormalities, result in autoimmunity

that causes endocrine gland destruction and hormone deficiency, as

seen in lymphocytic thyroiditis of dogs, type I DM,

hypoparathyroidism, hypoadrenocorticism, and APS. On the other hand,

endocrine deficiency (hypothyroidism, DM) or excess

(hyperadrenocorticism) states may cause abnormalities of cell-

mediated and antibody-associated immunity, leading to susceptibility

to a variety of viral, bacterial, and fungal infections. It is hoped

that this article sheds some light on the complex and highly

integrated endocrine-immune interactions.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 7975047 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

_____________________

Am J Med Sci. 1992 Nov;304(5):279-84. Related Articles, Links

Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated

adrenocorticotropin deficiency.

Shigemasa C, Kouchi T, Ueta Y, Mitani Y, Yoshida A, Mashiba H.

First Department of Internal Medicine, Tottori University School of

Medicine, Yonago, Japan.

Thyroid hormone and thyrotropin (TSH) levels were evaluated before

and after adrenal replacement in eight patients (six men and two

women, 35-62 years old) with isolated adrenocorticotropin (ACTH)

deficiency. Six patients (cases 1-6) showed TSH excess before

treatment. Four patients (cases 1-4), who initially had subnormal

thyroid hormone levels, showed resolution of biochemical features of

primary hypothyroidism after treatment, although TSH excess has

persisted in two patients (cases 1 and 2). Case 1 had an extremely

high titer of antimicrosomal antibody (MCHA), and cases 2 and 3

showed histologically and cytologically chronic thyroiditis, despite

negative results for MCHA and antithyroglobulin antibody,

respectively. Two patients (cases 5 and 6), who had had normal

thyroid hormone levels and did not show the significant rise in

serum T3 in TSH releasing hormone testing, showed TSH normalization

without changes in serum thyroid hormone levels after treatment. The

other two patients (cases 7 and 8), who initially had normal TSH and

thyroid hormone levels, did not show the significant changes in

serum TSH and thyroid hormone levels after treatment. The prevalence

of chronic thyroiditis coexistence in isolated ACTH deficiency may

be higher than predicted. Therefore, TSH excess before adrenal

replacement may be attributed to not only direct enhancement of TSH

release due to chronic cortisol deficiency but also to thyroid

dysfunction due to chronic thyroiditis. It is possible that

hypothyroidism due to chronic thyroiditis can be improved only by

adrenal supplementation.

PMID: 1332472 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

____________________

Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1994 Jul;24(4):765-82.

Immunity and the endocrine system.

Greco DS, Harpold LM.

Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine and

Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort .

In conclusion, interaction between the immune and endocrine systems

is highly complex. Generally, abnormalities of T suppressor cells, a

result of HLA antigen genetic abnormalities, result in autoimmunity

that causes endocrine gland destruction and hormone deficiency, as

seen in lymphocytic thyroiditis of dogs, type I DM,

hypoparathyroidism, hypoadrenocorticism, and APS. On the other hand,

endocrine deficiency (hypothyroidism, DM) or excess

(hyperadrenocorticism) states may cause abnormalities of cell-

mediated and antibody-associated immunity, leading to susceptibility

to a variety of viral, bacterial, and fungal infections. It is hoped

that this article sheds some light on the complex and highly

integrated endocrine-immune interactions.

Publication Types:

Review

Review, Tutorial

PMID: 7975047 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

_________________________

1: Ann Endocrinol (Paris). 1976 Nov-Dec;37(6):437-43. Related

Articles, Links

Effects of thyroidectomy and replacement therapy on the adrenal and

testis of the bird myna, Acridotheres tristis.

Thapliyal JP, Chaturvedi.

Thyroidectomy in Myna, Acridotheres tristis, increased the levels of

cholesterol, ascorbic acid and decreased the activity of the

adrenal. The size and activity of the testis also decreased

following thyroid removal. The weight of the two glands and activity

of testis was not affected by 0.25 mg of 1-thyroxine. The chemical

and histological changes of the adrenal were however reversed. It is

suggested that thyroid deficiency leads to reduced output of the

trophic hormones from the adenohypophysis of the bird resulting in

decreased size and activity of the gonad and of the adrenal.

PMID: 1030933 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

______________________

http://www.drplechner.com/EI-Human-article.pdf

Unrecognized Endocrine-Immune Defects

in Multiple Diseases

_____________________

Gen Comp Endocrinol. 2005 Jan 15;140(2):101-8. Epub 2004 Nov 24.

Related Articles, Links

Regulation of thyroid hormone availability in liver and brain by

glucocorticoids.

Reyns GE, Verhoelst CH, Kuhn ER, Darras VM, Van der Geyten S.

Laboratory of Comparative Endocrinology, Zoological Institute, K.U.

Leuven, Naamsestraat 61, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium.

Glucocorticoids as well as thyroid hormones are essential for normal

brain development. Exogenous glucocorticoids stimulate 3,3',5-

triiodothyronine (T(3)) availability in circulation of birds and

similar effects have been observed in sheep. Chicken data indicate

that glucocorticoid administration also stimulates thyroid hormone

metabolism in brain but the effects on local thyroid hormone

concentrations are not known. Therefore, the current study: (1)

determined local thyroid hormone availability in separate brain

areas of 18-day-old embryonic chickens (E18) after injection of

dexamethasone (DEX), and (2) investigated the impact on the thyroid

hormone metabolic pathways in these brain parts and compared the

results with the hepatic situation. For this, E18 chicken embryos

were treated with a single intravenous dose of DEX (25mug). Despite

the decreased 3,5,3',5-tetraiodothyronine (T(4)) availability in the

liver of the DEX treated embryos, the T(3) content was strongly

increased, parallel to the plasma T(3) surge. This T(3) surge was

primarily related to a fall in hepatic T(3) breakdown through a

downregulation of the type III deiodinase (D3). The sulfation

pathway in liver seems not to be affected by DEX. In all brain

parts, DEX affects the T(3) production capacity by upregulation of

the type II deiodinase (D2). This enables the brain to compensate

for the decrease in T(4) availability, although the T(3)

concentrations are not consistently increased like in plasma and

liver. This observation points to the existence of a fine-tuning

mechanism in brain that enables the brain to keep the T(3)

concentrations within narrow limits.

PMID: 15613272 [PubMed - in process]

_______________________

[Guest guest]

I do feel at optimal dosage. I take 90mg of Armour in the am and 60 in the

pm. All of my TSH tests show that my TSH is supressed... FT3 is at the high

end, FT4 around 1.0. I have been feeling great with the exception of a

flare up every now and then. Now I know what is going on during a flare up!

I had posted my test results not too long ago...

LaCretia

>

>LaCretia, Where are you with your thyroid dosage in all this? Are you

>having hypo symptoms still or do you feel you are at a high enough dosage

>and if so what is that dosage?

>

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

>Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

your levels may still not be high enough. I am finding the numbers don't mean

anything but it is how you feel. The numbers are more a guideline. I just added

some t4 to my mix. I may need a higher level of that. I am on 3 grains armour

and 18.75 of t4

Re: WARNING About Taking Steroid Treatment!

I do feel at optimal dosage. I take 90mg of Armour in the am and 60 in the

pm. All of my TSH tests show that my TSH is supressed... FT3 is at the high

end, FT4 around 1.0. I have been feeling great with the exception of a

flare up every now and then. Now I know what is going on during a flare up!

I had posted my test results not too long ago...

LaCretia

>

>LaCretia, Where are you with your thyroid dosage in all this? Are you

>having hypo symptoms still or do you feel you are at a high enough dosage

>and if so what is that dosage?

>

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

>Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypoki\

tties/>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

To me the numbers are a guide and my doctor feels the same way. She always

doses based off how I feel rather than the labs. She said she uses the labs

only as a guide not the determining factor. I feel great other than the

occasional flare ups. I think these are due to stress and not increasing

the cortef when I should. I have not had another flare up since taking

vacation and the tests showed the low Cortisol afterwards. I think if I

would have increased it during vacation, I would have avoided the crash all

toghether!

LaCretia

>

>your levels may still not be high enough. I am finding the numbers don't

>mean anything but it is how you feel. The numbers are more a guideline. I

>just added some t4 to my mix. I may need a higher level of that. I am on 3

>grains armour and 18.75 of t4

> Re: WARNING About Taking Steroid

>Treatment!

>

>

> I do feel at optimal dosage. I take 90mg of Armour in the am and 60 in

>the

> pm. All of my TSH tests show that my TSH is supressed... FT3 is at the

>high

> end, FT4 around 1.0. I have been feeling great with the exception of a

> flare up every now and then. Now I know what is going on during a flare

>up!

> I had posted my test results not too long ago...

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >LaCretia, Where are you with your thyroid dosage in all this? Are you

> >having hypo symptoms still or do you feel you are at a high enough

>dosage

> >and if so what is that dosage?

> >

> > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> >Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypoki\

tties/>

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo? Are you having

side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is time to get off it?

Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get off. I have read it can

take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal the adrenals enough for

them to take over on their own, so what's the rush? Believe me I am NOT pro

adrenal support, as I have had many bad reactions from tying it myself, but I

want to know all I can about it.

*Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

[Guest guest]

The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm getting off so

I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need for

permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take the ACTH

Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent bases or if I

will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my doctor has

told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency doses for

those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got off

perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

LaCretia

>

>

> >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

>

>Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo? Are you

>having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is time to get

>off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get off. I have

>read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal the

>adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the rush?

>Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad reactions

>from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

>Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One more thing...the reason for the flare ups is you only get 20mg a day of

Cortef so, if you have a stressful event... vacation, sickness, etc... then

you need to increase for a few days to avoid getting too low on Cortisol.

The typical person makes 40mg a day... so you can see how stress would eat

up all the cortisol quickly and leave you deficient since your adrenals are

off resting. Make sense?

LaCretia

>

>

> >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

>

>Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo? Are you

>having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is time to get

>off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get off. I have

>read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal the

>adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the rush?

>Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad reactions

>from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

>Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One more thing...the reason for the flare ups is you only get 20mg a day of

Cortef so, if you have a stressful event... vacation, sickness, etc... then

you need to increase for a few days to avoid getting too low on Cortisol.

The typical person makes 40mg a day... so you can see how stress would eat

up all the cortisol quickly and leave you deficient since your adrenals are

off resting. Make sense?

LaCretia

>

>

> >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

>

>Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo? Are you

>having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is time to get

>off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get off. I have

>read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal the

>adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the rush?

>Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad reactions

>from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

>Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hate to dissapoint everybody, but I got off them about a year ago

and was off for a couple of months after being on them 8 months.

Then, I needed to move accross the country and pack and do heavy

lifting, so I went back on for that so as not to make myself sick

with that. I have been up and down on them since. Mostly have not

got off because I have been busy and lazy. But, I have started again

and I will let you know when I am off them again.

Tish

[Guest guest]

Hate to dissapoint everybody, but I got off them about a year ago

and was off for a couple of months after being on them 8 months.

Then, I needed to move accross the country and pack and do heavy

lifting, so I went back on for that so as not to make myself sick

with that. I have been up and down on them since. Mostly have not

got off because I have been busy and lazy. But, I have started again

and I will let you know when I am off them again.

Tish

[Guest guest]

Let us know Tish! I will also keep you all posted on how I do.

LaCretia

>

>

>Hate to dissapoint everybody, but I got off them about a year ago

>and was off for a couple of months after being on them 8 months.

>Then, I needed to move accross the country and pack and do heavy

>lifting, so I went back on for that so as not to make myself sick

>with that. I have been up and down on them since. Mostly have not

>got off because I have been busy and lazy. But, I have started again

>and I will let you know when I am off them again.

>

>Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let us know Tish! I will also keep you all posted on how I do.

LaCretia

>

>

>Hate to dissapoint everybody, but I got off them about a year ago

>and was off for a couple of months after being on them 8 months.

>Then, I needed to move accross the country and pack and do heavy

>lifting, so I went back on for that so as not to make myself sick

>with that. I have been up and down on them since. Mostly have not

>got off because I have been busy and lazy. But, I have started again

>and I will let you know when I am off them again.

>

>Tish

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a quick question. Have you talked to your doc about using a

florinef? It helps with the electrolytes. When electrolytes, are

outta wack you can feel terrible. Aldosterone plays a very

important part in your BP, salt and water balance. If you are not

producing cortisol and have weak adrenals I would THINK that your

aldosterone maybe a problem too? Or you may simply ask about having

your aldosterone and renin checked.

Hugs,

Canasa

> > If I were you I would still go for a dialated eye exam not a

regular

> > one.

> > > Re: Help, I may have

damaged my

> > eye!!

> > >

> > >

> > > Don;t think mine is cataracts I have been like this for 15

years.

> > No better and only slightly worse eyesight. Normal for my

age...

> > > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > > Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid

cats

> > >

> >

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/g

roup/hypokitties/>http://groups.yahoo.com/grohttp://groups.yahoo.co

m/gro>

> > up/hypokitties/>

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Just a quick question. Have you talked to your doc about using a

florinef? It helps with the electrolytes. When electrolytes, are

outta wack you can feel terrible. Aldosterone plays a very

important part in your BP, salt and water balance. If you are not

producing cortisol and have weak adrenals I would THINK that your

aldosterone maybe a problem too? Or you may simply ask about having

your aldosterone and renin checked.

Hugs,

Canasa

> > If I were you I would still go for a dialated eye exam not a

regular

> > one.

> > > Re: Help, I may have

damaged my

> > eye!!

> > >

> > >

> > > Don;t think mine is cataracts I have been like this for 15

years.

> > No better and only slightly worse eyesight. Normal for my

age...

> > > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > > Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid

cats

> > >

> >

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/g

roup/hypokitties/>http://groups.yahoo.com/grohttp://groups.yahoo.co

m/gro>

> > up/hypokitties/>

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

You need to be off of it for some time I believe before they can get a

good test ready, right?

My daughter has LOCAH Late Onset Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia...she is

on 2.5mg in the am of Prednisone...been on it for 4 years and is doing

very very well working and going to college.

Best,

LaCretia Mozingo wrote:

> The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm getting

> off so

> I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need for

> permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take the

> ACTH

> Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent bases or

> if I

> will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my doctor has

> told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

> doses for

> those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got off

> perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You need to be off of it for some time I believe before they can get a

good test ready, right?

My daughter has LOCAH Late Onset Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia...she is

on 2.5mg in the am of Prednisone...been on it for 4 years and is doing

very very well working and going to college.

Best,

LaCretia Mozingo wrote:

> The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm getting

> off so

> I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need for

> permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take the

> ACTH

> Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent bases or

> if I

> will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my doctor has

> told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

> doses for

> those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got off

> perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

She did check it once and it was within range. I have inquired through the

's group about Florinef and it was agreed that I didn't need it.

Since I am about to wean off, I don't think I should bother adding it.

Thanks for mentioning it... I had investigated adding it due to running to

the bathroom so much.

Take care and be well!

LaCretia

>

>

>

>

>Just a quick question. Have you talked to your doc about using a

>florinef? It helps with the electrolytes. When electrolytes, are

>outta wack you can feel terrible. Aldosterone plays a very

>important part in your BP, salt and water balance. If you are not

>producing cortisol and have weak adrenals I would THINK that your

>aldosterone maybe a problem too? Or you may simply ask about having

>your aldosterone and renin checked.

>

>Hugs,

>Canasa

>

>

> > > If I were you I would still go for a dialated eye exam not a

>regular

> > > one.

> > > > Re: Help, I may have

>damaged my

> > > eye!!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Don;t think mine is cataracts I have been like this for 15

>years.

> > > No better and only slightly worse eyesight. Normal for my

>age...

> > > > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > > > Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid

>cats

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/g

>roup/hypokitties/>http://groups.yahoo.com/grohttp://groups.yahoo.co

>m/gro>

> > > up/hypokitties/>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

She did check it once and it was within range. I have inquired through the

's group about Florinef and it was agreed that I didn't need it.

Since I am about to wean off, I don't think I should bother adding it.

Thanks for mentioning it... I had investigated adding it due to running to

the bathroom so much.

Take care and be well!

LaCretia

>

>

>

>

>Just a quick question. Have you talked to your doc about using a

>florinef? It helps with the electrolytes. When electrolytes, are

>outta wack you can feel terrible. Aldosterone plays a very

>important part in your BP, salt and water balance. If you are not

>producing cortisol and have weak adrenals I would THINK that your

>aldosterone maybe a problem too? Or you may simply ask about having

>your aldosterone and renin checked.

>

>Hugs,

>Canasa

>

>

> > > If I were you I would still go for a dialated eye exam not a

>regular

> > > one.

> > > > Re: Help, I may have

>damaged my

> > > eye!!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Don;t think mine is cataracts I have been like this for 15

>years.

> > > No better and only slightly worse eyesight. Normal for my

>age...

> > > > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > > > Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid

>cats

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/http://groups.yahoo.com/g

>roup/hypokitties/>http://groups.yahoo.com/grohttp://groups.yahoo.co

>m/gro>

> > > up/hypokitties/>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

" If I can wean off then I will take the ACTH Stem test to confirm if

this will continue on an intermittent bases or if I

will need steroids for life " .

I believe THIS is the way to go. If you feel your adrenals are not

making enough cortisol have the ACTH stim test to see if your

adrenals are getting the message from ACTH (made in the pituitary

gland) and making cortisol. There is also the CRH test which tests

the pituitary to see if you are making ACTH, which inturn tells the

adrenals to make cortisol. CRH stimulates the pituitary to make

ATCH.

It is pretty complicated, whereas I know a little bit about the

adrenals I have to learn about the thryoid. I am starting to

understand and again it involves that PITUITARY gland.. Grrr... LOL

Just had a Brain and Pituitary MRI with contrast yesterday. I hope

I don't have some kind of link there going on!!!

Hugs,

Canasa

> The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm

getting off so

> I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need

for

> permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take

the ACTH

> Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent

bases or if I

> will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my

doctor has

> told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

doses for

> those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got

off

> perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >

> > >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

> >

> >Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo?

Are you

> >having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is

time to get

> >off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get

off. I have

> >read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal

the

> >adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the

rush?

> >Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad

reactions

> >from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> >Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

" If I can wean off then I will take the ACTH Stem test to confirm if

this will continue on an intermittent bases or if I

will need steroids for life " .

I believe THIS is the way to go. If you feel your adrenals are not

making enough cortisol have the ACTH stim test to see if your

adrenals are getting the message from ACTH (made in the pituitary

gland) and making cortisol. There is also the CRH test which tests

the pituitary to see if you are making ACTH, which inturn tells the

adrenals to make cortisol. CRH stimulates the pituitary to make

ATCH.

It is pretty complicated, whereas I know a little bit about the

adrenals I have to learn about the thryoid. I am starting to

understand and again it involves that PITUITARY gland.. Grrr... LOL

Just had a Brain and Pituitary MRI with contrast yesterday. I hope

I don't have some kind of link there going on!!!

Hugs,

Canasa

> The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm

getting off so

> I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need

for

> permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take

the ACTH

> Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent

bases or if I

> will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my

doctor has

> told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

doses for

> those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got

off

> perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >

> > >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

> >

> >Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo?

Are you

> >having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is

time to get

> >off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get

off. I have

> >read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal

the

> >adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the

rush?

> >Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad

reactions

> >from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> >Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

" If I can wean off then I will take the ACTH Stem test to confirm if

this will continue on an intermittent bases or if I

will need steroids for life " .

I believe THIS is the way to go. If you feel your adrenals are not

making enough cortisol have the ACTH stim test to see if your

adrenals are getting the message from ACTH (made in the pituitary

gland) and making cortisol. There is also the CRH test which tests

the pituitary to see if you are making ACTH, which inturn tells the

adrenals to make cortisol. CRH stimulates the pituitary to make

ATCH.

It is pretty complicated, whereas I know a little bit about the

adrenals I have to learn about the thryoid. I am starting to

understand and again it involves that PITUITARY gland.. Grrr... LOL

Just had a Brain and Pituitary MRI with contrast yesterday. I hope

I don't have some kind of link there going on!!!

Hugs,

Canasa

> The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm

getting off so

> I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need

for

> permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take

the ACTH

> Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent

bases or if I

> will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my

doctor has

> told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

doses for

> those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got

off

> perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

>

> LaCretia

> >

> >

> > >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

> >

> >Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo?

Are you

> >having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is

time to get

> >off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get

off. I have

> >read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal

the

> >adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the

rush?

> >Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad

reactions

> >from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> >Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well you are giving good advice and I hope your test lead you somewhere.

I'm so excited to finally reach the year mark. You see I wasn't educated

enough to have made the doctor perform the extra testing at diagnoses. She

had stated it would not matter...the treatement is the same. For a doctor

that is true...but for the patient... you want to know if it's short term or

long term. The test would have confirmed this for me but it would not have

changed the treatment much.

LaCretia

>

>

>

> " If I can wean off then I will take the ACTH Stem test to confirm if

>this will continue on an intermittent bases or if I

>will need steroids for life " .

>

>I believe THIS is the way to go. If you feel your adrenals are not

>making enough cortisol have the ACTH stim test to see if your

>adrenals are getting the message from ACTH (made in the pituitary

>gland) and making cortisol. There is also the CRH test which tests

>the pituitary to see if you are making ACTH, which inturn tells the

>adrenals to make cortisol. CRH stimulates the pituitary to make

>ATCH.

>

>It is pretty complicated, whereas I know a little bit about the

>adrenals I have to learn about the thryoid. I am starting to

>understand and again it involves that PITUITARY gland.. Grrr... LOL

>

>Just had a Brain and Pituitary MRI with contrast yesterday. I hope

>I don't have some kind of link there going on!!!

>

>Hugs,

>Canasa

>

>

> > The goal from my doctor was one year but, to be honest...I'm

>getting off so

> > I can get officially tested for 's and rule out the need

>for

> > permanent steroid replacement. If I can wean off then I will take

>the ACTH

> > Stem test to confirm if this will continue on an intermittent

>bases or if I

> > will need steroids for life. I'm ready to confirm this as my

>doctor has

> > told me that after weaning off I will still have to keep emergency

>doses for

> > those just in case moments. I still haven't found anyone that got

>off

> > perminently so this will be interesting to see how it goes!

> >

> > LaCretia

> > >

> > >

> > > >>I feel great other than the occasional flare ups.<<

> > >

> > >Now I AM confused! If you feel great why change the status quo?

>Are you

> > >having side effects from the Cortef? Or do you just feel it is

>time to get

> > >off it? Maybe your adrenals are not sufficiently rested to get

>off. I have

> > >read it can take up to 2 years and once in a while longer to heal

>the

> > >adrenals enough for them to take over on their own, so what's the

>rush?

> > >Believe me I am NOT pro adrenal support, as I have had many bad

>reactions

> > >from tying it myself, but I want to know all I can about it.

> > > *Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

> > >Fat cat? Diabetes? Listowner for overweight or hypothyroid cats

> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypokitties/

> > >

> > >

> > >