Re: Lab tests for potassium levels

March 21, 2005

> When labs run blood tests for magnesium levels, they're testing for

> intercellular magnesium, which is the part in the serum. However,

99% of the body's magnesium is stored intracellularly. So the

standard lab test is only reporting on the 1% of magnesium that is not

in the cell, and thus it really doesn't give an accurate reflection of

the magnesium levels. It is possible to do a test on the

intracellular component, but it's very expensive and requires a

specialized lab.

> I don't know about potassium, but maybe most of it is also

intracellular, and thus the standard test wouldn't be very accurate.

>

> Winona, you seem to be knowledgeable about lab tests. I just read

about this. Could you confirm if I'm reporting this correctly?

>

> Water retention is listed as a potassium deficiency symptom in my

> Nutritional Balancing book.

> Lynn

____________

Lynn,

You are right about the magnesium. You would have to be about 95%

deficient in magnesium in order for the serum magnesium level to be

low. The best test is one that can test the magnesium that is INSIDE

the cell. This test is not readily available.

Potassium, on the other hand, can be measured very well using the

plasma. It is run by almost every lab and is generally very accurate.

Yes, potassium deficiency usually causes water retention. Diuretics

usually flush potassium AND magnesium out of your system - so it is

probably prudent to supplement with both when you take diuretics.

Winona

March 22, 2005

> Lynn,

> You are right about the magnesium. You would have to be about 95%

> deficient in magnesium in order for the serum magnesium level to be

> low. The best test is one that can test the magnesium that is

INSIDE

> the cell. This test is not readily available.

>

> Potassium, on the other hand, can be measured very well using the

> plasma. It is run by almost every lab and is generally very

accurate.

> Yes, potassium deficiency usually causes water retention. Diuretics

> usually flush potassium AND magnesium out of your system - so it is

> probably prudent to supplement with both when you take diuretics.

>

> Winona

Winona

I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

could PH be a marker for this?

March 22, 2005

> Lynn,

> You are right about the magnesium. You would have to be about 95%

> deficient in magnesium in order for the serum magnesium level to be

> low. The best test is one that can test the magnesium that is

INSIDE

> the cell. This test is not readily available.

>

> Potassium, on the other hand, can be measured very well using the

> plasma. It is run by almost every lab and is generally very

accurate.

> Yes, potassium deficiency usually causes water retention. Diuretics

> usually flush potassium AND magnesium out of your system - so it is

> probably prudent to supplement with both when you take diuretics.

>

> Winona

Winona

I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

could PH be a marker for this?

March 22, 2005

> Winona

> I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

> the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

> is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

> balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

> is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

> could PH be a marker for this?

>

______________________

:

I thought you'd find this reference interesting. It doesn't answer

your exact question - but had good information about ion transport.

Magnesium Research (1993) 6, 2, 167-177

Regulation of sodium and potassium pathways by magnesium in cell membranes

http://www.mgwater.com/dur09.shtml

Winona

March 22, 2005

> Winona

> I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

> the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

> is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

> balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

> is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

> could PH be a marker for this?

>

______________________

:

I thought you'd find this reference interesting. It doesn't answer

your exact question - but had good information about ion transport.

Magnesium Research (1993) 6, 2, 167-177

Regulation of sodium and potassium pathways by magnesium in cell membranes

http://www.mgwater.com/dur09.shtml

Winona

March 22, 2005

> :

>

> I thought you'd find this reference interesting. It doesn't answer

> your exact question - but had good information about ion transport.

>

> Magnesium Research (1993) 6, 2, 167-177

> Regulation of sodium and potassium pathways by magnesium in cell

membranes

>

> http://www.mgwater.com/dur09.shtml

>

> Winona

It was a little out of my league, but I picked up on some things.

This really caught my eye,

The major part of the studies concerns the effects of extracellular

magnesium. Extracellular Mg2+ blocks the passive movements of Na+ and

K+ across the membrane of heart cells 8.

Didn't you say something about magnisium being good in congestive

heart failure before?

March 22, 2005

> :

>

> I thought you'd find this reference interesting. It doesn't answer

> your exact question - but had good information about ion transport.

>

> Magnesium Research (1993) 6, 2, 167-177

> Regulation of sodium and potassium pathways by magnesium in cell

membranes

>

> http://www.mgwater.com/dur09.shtml

>

> Winona

It was a little out of my league, but I picked up on some things.

This really caught my eye,

The major part of the studies concerns the effects of extracellular

magnesium. Extracellular Mg2+ blocks the passive movements of Na+ and

K+ across the membrane of heart cells 8.

Didn't you say something about magnisium being good in congestive

heart failure before?

March 22, 2005

> :

>

> I thought you'd find this reference interesting. It doesn't answer

> your exact question - but had good information about ion transport.

>

> Magnesium Research (1993) 6, 2, 167-177

> Regulation of sodium and potassium pathways by magnesium in cell

membranes

>

> http://www.mgwater.com/dur09.shtml

>

> Winona

It was a little out of my league, but I picked up on some things.

This really caught my eye,

The major part of the studies concerns the effects of extracellular

magnesium. Extracellular Mg2+ blocks the passive movements of Na+ and

K+ across the membrane of heart cells 8.

Didn't you say something about magnisium being good in congestive

heart failure before?

March 22, 2005

> Winona

> I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

> the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

> is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

> balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

> is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

> could PH be a marker for this?

>

,

The optimal Na/K ratio in hair analysis is 2.5. I don't know if that has

any applicability to blood tests.

Lynn

March 22, 2005

> Winona

> I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

> the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

> is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

> balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

> is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

> could PH be a marker for this?

>

,

The optimal Na/K ratio in hair analysis is 2.5. I don't know if that has

any applicability to blood tests.

Lynn

March 22, 2005

> Winona

> I know most of your intercellular fluid is sodium based, saline, and

> the intracellular is potassium. What I cannot seem to find is that

> is there a ratio that we should keep, I know we shoud keep this

> balanced other wise your in for some trouble. What I am looking for

> is a unreported ratio that we could use from the serum levels? Also

> could PH be a marker for this?

>

,

The optimal Na/K ratio in hair analysis is 2.5. I don't know if that has

any applicability to blood tests.

Lynn

March 23, 2005

> It was a little out of my league, but I picked up on some things.

> This really caught my eye,

>

> The major part of the studies concerns the effects of extracellular

> magnesium. Extracellular Mg2+ blocks the passive movements of Na+ and

> K+ across the membrane of heart cells 8.

>

> Didn't you say something about magnisium being good in congestive

> heart failure before?

>

____________________

,

I'm not totally sure about how to interpret that statement - but my

take on it is that magnesium prevents PASSIVE movement of Na+ and K+

thereby facilitating the orderly movement as required for the proper

function. Therefore if more potassium is required inside the cell

than outside, magnesium helps man the gate (channels) - and only

allows passage as required.

Magnesium is one of the minerals that is very good for the heart.

There are serveral references at this site:

http://www.mgwater.com/listc.shtml#heart

Winona

March 23, 2005

>

> ,

> I'm not totally sure about how to interpret that statement - but my

> take on it is that magnesium prevents PASSIVE movement of Na+ and K+

> thereby facilitating the orderly movement as required for the proper

> function. Therefore if more potassium is required inside the cell

> than outside, magnesium helps man the gate (channels) - and only

> allows passage as required.

>

> Magnesium is one of the minerals that is very good for the heart.

> There are serveral references at this site:

> http://www.mgwater.com/listc.shtml#heart

>

> Winona

Well that sucks, it makes two of us that don't fully understand it.

LOL Usually when I read these detailed studies I have to beat my

head on the wll to force the info in, kinda like a osmosis thing. By

about the fifth time I am usualy bleeding so.......I either give up

because I understand it or quit because I hate painting, my wife

would hate me if i left blood stains on the wall.

In all my readings I have never run across the potassium or sodium

pumps that they talk about here, i am a little familiar with iodine

and calcium pumps, calcium pumps are very important for cell to cell

communication, probably the most important. I think that is what

they were implying when they said that the K and NA pumps were

secondary pumps for this purpose. Now towards the begining they were

saying something about a weakened cell membrane, so I think what they

mean by passive in this study is that it is essiantly cell leakage,

or that the passive fluid was not ment to get out, I am assuming they

would call it something else if it was ment to be let out or ran

through its pump into the next cell. Am I making sense to you or do

I need to hit the wall some more?

March 23, 2005