Progesterone Cream Problems??/ Please help

March 4, 2005

I was diagnosed w/ Grave's about a year and a half ago. Currently I'm doing

block and replace - 2.5mgs of methimazole, 100mcgs of generic Synthroid

with 12.5mgs of compounded T3. (Armour made my thyroid eye disease

worse.)

Since my diagnosis, I've been doing a battery of tests to figure out if

something is going on. I have an incredible difficulty losing weight unless I

starve myself. I decided that maybe the birth control pill contributed to some

of my problems - headaches, weight gain, thyroid issues, so I went off it about

6 months ago. Although most of my migraines have ceased since getting my

thyroid to normal levels, I have been getting migraines a couple days before

my period that last a few days, accompanied with fatigue and depression.

After a recent estrogen/progesterone/DHEA test, my doctor determined that I

should go on some progesterone cream. I started it yesterday and have a

pretty bad headache today. Is this normal? Am I taking too much

progesterone? I'm only using about the size of a pea twice a day.

The following are my recent labs:

1/20/05

Estradiol = 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0) ((optimal = 1.5 - 3))

Progesterone = 58 (100-600)

Ratio: Pg/E2 = 48 (50-200 Optimal, 200 - 1000 Progesterone Therapy)

DHEAS = 11.1 (3-10)

Thanks in advance.

SAMMIE

March 4, 2005

Hi Sammie. I, too, have a lot miseries around my female hormones,

and though Armour gave me back my life, it didn't solve my female

issues, which include excessive fatigue and achiness with every

period.

Have you done free T3 labs? That would be interesting to know in

helping you.

How much progesterone is in the size of a pea of lotion? That is

also important to know. I wouldn't give up on the progesterone, or

even assume that it caused the headache, yet. I would personally

keep on with it, and see what a few more days bring. I am on 200 mgs

of progesterone daily!!

Also, down the line when you are doing better, don't give up on

Armour. You are virtually taking the exact same thing as in Armour--

the T4 and the T3. So...it could have been the " amount " of Armour

you were on, rather than the Armour itself.

Hang in there, and let us know your free T3 and the amount of

Progesterone in the cream pea size.

Janie

>

> I was diagnosed w/ Grave's about a year and a half ago. Currently

I'm doing

> block and replace - 2.5mgs of methimazole, 100mcgs of generic

Synthroid

> with 12.5mgs of compounded T3. (Armour made my thyroid eye

disease

> worse.)

>

> Since my diagnosis, I've been doing a battery of tests to figure

out if

> something is going on. I have an incredible difficulty losing

weight unless I

> starve myself. I decided that maybe the birth control pill

contributed to some

> of my problems - headaches, weight gain, thyroid issues, so I went

off it about

> 6 months ago. Although most of my migraines have ceased since

getting my

> thyroid to normal levels, I have been getting migraines a couple

days before

> my period that last a few days, accompanied with fatigue and

depression.

> After a recent estrogen/progesterone/DHEA test, my doctor

determined that I

> should go on some progesterone cream. I started it yesterday and

have a

> pretty bad headache today. Is this normal? Am I taking too much

> progesterone? I'm only using about the size of a pea twice a day.

>

> The following are my recent labs:

>

> 1

March 4, 2005

I used to use progesterone cream and used it for about two years

successfully. But, then over a few months I developed problems with

it and no matter how little I used, it would give me a terrible

restless night and headche that would not go away. This was about

the time of my hypothyroidism diagnosis. Along with my

hypothyroidism, I had developed low adrenal function. Since that

time over two years ago, I have not been able to use progesterone

even in tiny amounts without the old symptoms returning.

I searched and searched for some information on why this was

happening and have not been able to find anything that explained it.

Most people have few problems with progesterone. I did read of some

cases of build up in fat tissue from long use. But, that did not fit

me. Recently, I came accross an article by Dr. Ray Peat, where he

says that progesterone sort of opposes the effects of cortisol from

the adrenals. Then a light kind of went on. Since I have low adrenal

function problems, the progesterone probably worsens my adrenal

shortage symptoms.

One thing that seems to characterize hyperthyroidism is that thyroid

levels get out of balance with cortisol from the adrenals and some

people have speculated that giving low dose cortisol would improve

hyperthyroidism. The two hormones must be in balance, and if

cortisol falls below what is needed for the amount of thyroid there,

you will get symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Also, common low adrenal

symptoms are headache, hypoglycemia, fatigue, poor sleep and on and

on. Migraine is a common symptom of low adrenal function. So, if you

have been hyperthyroid, you may have developed some low adrenal

issues. Hyperthyroidism stresses the adrenal gland, also. It seems

that giving progesterone could worsen existing adrenal problems and

lead to a headache. Another thing that progesterone dose is alter

glucose function. It tends to make the body more glucose intolerant

and increase hypoglycemia symptoms. This plays in with adrenal

function and can worsen low adrenal states. It can also cause blood

sugar to drop too low and this can lead to a headache. Progestrone

also increases thyroid function and will speed up the thyroid and

cause more of it to be used up in the body. So, it could also be

altering your thyroid function.

You can monitor your thyroid condition yourself to see how different

things are effecting it. Check out these pages for info on that:

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

http://www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm

These simple tests can show if your thyroid medications are adjusted

properly and if you are currently hyperthyroid or hypothyroid. It

can give you some clues as to how different things affect your

thyroid function.

Here is the Ray Peat article:

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

It was smart of you to get off the estrogens. Actually studies have

shown that estrogens can trigger thyroid disease. They tend to

disturb immune function and people on birth control and other

estrogens are at higher risk for developing Hashimotos and other

thyroid conditions. This info came from Werner and Ingbar's " The

Thyroid. "

I am curious if your weight gain occured during your hyperthyroidism

treatment. Usually, hyperthyroidism causes weight loss before

treatment. Occasionally doctors mistakenly diagnose people as

hyperthryoid when they are hypothyroid. This can happen in pituitary

problems where TSH is too low. Have you had Free T3 and Free T4

tests as part of your diagnosis? The treatment for hyperthyroidism

is hard to get perfect and often people become mildly hypothyroid.

Anyway, if you do the self tests, you will get some idea how your

thyroid function is and if you do Dr. Rind's tests, it will show you

if you have some adrenal issues going on and this may be why the

progesterone is giving you so much trouble.

Tish

March 4, 2005

Thanks so much to everyone that responded. It's so appreciated. Following

are answers to various questions, hopefully this will help further explain my

problems.

Since I'm worried about deeply synthetic hormones, my doctor recommended

Springboard Pro Balance Natural Progesterone Cream

(www.springboard4health.com). Directions suggest rubbing 1/8 – 1/4

teaspoon (about size of pea) once in the am, and once in the pm. Does

anyone have an opinion on this brand?

I did the test (from ZRT) on day 19 of my cycle. My doc suggested also doing

the test when I get my migraines (usually 1-2 days before my period and the

first few days of my cycle) to compare. But I haven't done that yet.

Janie, how much is 200mgs of progesterone – 1/4 cup??? I'm interested in

this gel you are getting from the compounding pharmacy, the fact that it's less

expensive is a huge appeal considering all the meds and doc appointments

and labs are putting me in a huge state of debt. Also, that's interesting you

brought up Armour. It just really made my eyes worse and I'll do anything to

avoid that. And apparently this is common among some Grave's folks w/ TED.

Maybe I will try it again down the road, especially since it's probably more

economical. It's so expensive to be unhealthy!! However, I mistyped. I'm

only on 12.5 MICROgrams of compounded T3, not milligrams.

Tish – I'm worried about possible adrenal problems, especially since it seems

to go hand in hand with thyroid issues. But I worry about gaining weight from

cortisol and having difficulty weaning off the meds once I start. My doc has

recommended a lot of vitamins/supplements to help with any adrenal issues,

including the supplement Symplex F by Standard Process. My body temp is

low and consistent throughout the day, so Im thinking that my issues are more

related to my thyroid, than adrenal, but I don't know. More than anything I'm

trying to work on stress reduction to hopefully naturally adjust my adrenal

issues. Stress is a big issue in my life, some I can control and some I can't

(psycho boss etc., etc.) I'm seeing a hypnotist to work on this. Basically,

I'm

trying everything I can, including looking for a new job.

What I know now is that I was probably HypoT for more than 20 years (I'm 33).

I went to the docs off and on over the years with some pretty obvious

symptoms, but no doc would order the right tests, so I suffered. They treated

the symptoms and never looked for the cause. When I was diagnosed with

Grave's, my Free T4 was just out of range at 2.2 (.8-2.0, were the ranges).

Under other circumstances, I probably would not have gone on anti-thyroid

meds. But I had a severe case of thyroid eye disease and the Grave's

antibodies. All of my symptoms were HypoT – headaches, fatigue, severe

menstrual cramps, cold, low body temp, constipation etc. I had NO HyperT

symptoms, other than the thyroid eye disease. So, some people lose weight

by being HyperT, but if they do, their Free Ts were always much, much higher

than that. I was basically in the normal ranges. I was probably severely

HypoT for years, and then quickly triggered into Grave's, which is why I had

such difficulty losing weight. Take in the fact that I was dealing with a

tremendous amount of stress (adrenal issues) and I never had the pleasure of

losing weight with Grave's.

And the anti-thyroid meds surely lower my estrogen and progesterone, but I

don't have much choice since this is the only thing that can lower my Grave's

antibodies. Without them, I worry that my eye disease will get worse, and this

is why I chose this dose of block and replace. My holistic doc did suggest

high doses of Vitamin D to hopefully lower my antibodies. I haven't started

that yet. Hopefully soon. I want to try things one at a time so I know what's

working and what's not.

I'm sorry to go on and on. How all of this relates to thyroid/adrenal/estrogen

etc., is so complex and overwhelming. I so want to do the right thing and get

well, like everyone in this group. I just wish it was easier to figure out.

Here are my most recent labs. I'm seeing the Endo in a week and will get

tested again soon. I'm wondering if it's important to test Ferritin too?? Ugh.

So much to learn……..

1/24/05

Free T3 = 2.6 (2.4-4.2)

Free T4 = 2.4 (.8-2.7)

12/21/04

Free T3 = 2.9 (2.2-4)

Free T4 = 1.6 (.8-2.7)

TSH = .83 (.3- 2.5)

TSI = 125 (< 130)

SAMMIE

March 4, 2005