Progesterone Cream Problems??/ Please help

March 4, 2005

I was diagnosed w/ Grave's about a year and a half ago. Currently I'm doing

block and replace - 2.5mgs of methimazole, 100mcgs of generic Synthroid

with 12.5mgs of compounded T3. (Armour made my thyroid eye disease

worse.)

Since my diagnosis, I've been doing a battery of tests to figure out if

something is going on. I have an incredible difficulty losing weight unless I

starve myself. I decided that maybe the birth control pill contributed to some

of my problems - headaches, weight gain, thyroid issues, so I went off it about

6 months ago. Although most of my migraines have ceased since getting my

thyroid to normal levels, I have been getting migraines a couple days before

my period that last a few days, accompanied with fatigue and depression.

After a recent estrogen/progesterone/DHEA test, my doctor determined that I

should go on some progesterone cream. I started it yesterday and have a

pretty bad headache today. Is this normal? Am I taking too much

progesterone? I'm only using about the size of a pea twice a day.

The following are my recent labs:

1/20/05

Estradiol = 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0) ((optimal = 1.5 - 3))

Progesterone = 58 (100-600)

Ratio: Pg/E2 = 48 (50-200 Optimal, 200 - 1000 Progesterone Therapy)

DHEAS = 11.1 (3-10)

Thanks in advance.

SAMMIE

March 4, 2005

At what point in your cycle were these labs taken?

I get migraines too, right around the time my period is supposed to

start. I had a full hormonal panel done on day 2 and day 20 of my

cycle to see if things were rising and falling as they should.

Yes, my progesterone was low, but my estradiol was even lower. Dr.

Vliet recommends a serum E2 level of 80 pg/dL to maintain bone mass,

weight control, mood, and sex drive. I don't know what units your

levels are in, but just from the reference ranges your E2 is low

also. Perhaps by adding progesterone without estradiol you're

offsetting an optimal E2/P ratio.

I've found that by taking DHEA and an over the counter adrenal

support my progesterone levels are returning to normal - but not my

E2. This is because most E2 is produced by the ovaries. And ovarian

function is definitely hindered by thyroid disease. Most of your

progesterone is made by your adrenal glands, which are also hindered

by thyroid disease.

DHEA-S is a precursor to progesterone (and the estrogens produced by

your adrenals). Yours looks slightly high, and in combination with

the low E2 and P, that suggests that something is hindering the

pathway of conversion.

This happens in hypothyroidism with cholesterol too. Cholesterol is a

precursor to some hormones, and in hypothyroidism it's frequently

elevated (because you're no longer able to produce hormones from it

at a " metabolically active " rate).

Good luck sorting all of this out.

>

> The following are my recent labs:

>

> 1/20/05

>

> Estradiol = 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0)

((optimal = 1.5 - 3))

>

> Progesterone = 58 (100-

600)

>

> Ratio: Pg/E2 = 48 (50-200 Optimal, 200 - 1000

Progesterone Therapy)

>

> DHEAS = 11.1 (3-10)

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

> SAMMIE

March 4, 2005

I used to use progesterone cream and used it for about two years

successfully. But, then over a few months I developed problems with

it and no matter how little I used, it would give me a terrible

restless night and headche that would not go away. This was about

the time of my hypothyroidism diagnosis. Along with my

hypothyroidism, I had developed low adrenal function. Since that

time over two years ago, I have not been able to use progesterone

even in tiny amounts without the old symptoms returning.

I searched and searched for some information on why this was

happening and have not been able to find anything that explained it.

Most people have few problems with progesterone. I did read of some

cases of build up in fat tissue from long use. But, that did not fit

me. Recently, I came accross an article by Dr. Ray Peat, where he

says that progesterone sort of opposes the effects of cortisol from

the adrenals. Then a light kind of went on. Since I have low adrenal

function problems, the progesterone probably worsens my adrenal

shortage symptoms.

One thing that seems to characterize hyperthyroidism is that thyroid

levels get out of balance with cortisol from the adrenals and some

people have speculated that giving low dose cortisol would improve

hyperthyroidism. The two hormones must be in balance, and if

cortisol falls below what is needed for the amount of thyroid there,

you will get symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Also, common low adrenal

symptoms are headache, hypoglycemia, fatigue, poor sleep and on and

on. Migraine is a common symptom of low adrenal function. So, if you

have been hyperthyroid, you may have developed some low adrenal

issues. Hyperthyroidism stresses the adrenal gland, also. It seems

that giving progesterone could worsen existing adrenal problems and

lead to a headache. Another thing that progesterone dose is alter

glucose function. It tends to make the body more glucose intolerant

and increase hypoglycemia symptoms. This plays in with adrenal

function and can worsen low adrenal states. It can also cause blood

sugar to drop too low and this can lead to a headache. Progestrone

also increases thyroid function and will speed up the thyroid and

cause more of it to be used up in the body. So, it could also be

altering your thyroid function.

You can monitor your thyroid condition yourself to see how different

things are effecting it. Check out these pages for info on that:

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

http://www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm

These simple tests can show if your thyroid medications are adjusted

properly and if you are currently hyperthyroid or hypothyroid. It

can give you some clues as to how different things affect your

thyroid function.

Here is the Ray Peat article:

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

It was smart of you to get off the estrogens. Actually studies have

shown that estrogens can trigger thyroid disease. They tend to

disturb immune function and people on birth control and other

estrogens are at higher risk for developing Hashimotos and other

thyroid conditions. This info came from Werner and Ingbar's " The

Thyroid. "

I am curious if your weight gain occured during your hyperthyroidism

treatment. Usually, hyperthyroidism causes weight loss before

treatment. Occasionally doctors mistakenly diagnose people as

hyperthryoid when they are hypothyroid. This can happen in pituitary

problems where TSH is too low. Have you had Free T3 and Free T4

tests as part of your diagnosis? The treatment for hyperthyroidism

is hard to get perfect and often people become mildly hypothyroid.

Anyway, if you do the self tests, you will get some idea how your

thyroid function is and if you do Dr. Rind's tests, it will show you

if you have some adrenal issues going on and this may be why the

progesterone is giving you so much trouble.

Tish

March 4, 2005