Re: Dependency on Cortef/this is wrong!!!!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> This isn't about the author's credibility, this is about the potential for

> permanent harm.

> 10 mg daily pred over time would be a guarenteed first-class ticket to

> disaster. To call it

> full replacement is wildly wrong. 7 mg daily brings Cushings and 5 mg daily

> can easily

> shut down the HPA function if not handled in a skillful way at the withdrawl

> point. Jim

>

> BTW, Jeffries Book is WAY out of date.

>

Well...I don't want to get into an argument with ya - but I have to take

exception with some things.

I took adrenal support (prednisolone) 10 mg. a day for about three

months....and I don't have all the dire things you said would happen.

I do still have some weak adrenals though....since I sorta " crashed " after

some major bad news. But that doesn't surprise me. If ya go untreated for

thyroid disease a couple of decades, I imagine the adrenals are fairly weary and

don't bounce back to well.

And I don't take any exception to your overall warning about adrenal support.

But since you differ with at least two major thyroid docs on this issue

(Langer and Durrant-Peatfield)...and everything else they say about thyroid

disease is so totally accurate - I think I will put my faith in their words.

And no offense intended. It's just that I know too many folks who have been

helped by adrenal support as outlined - not harmed.

Also - Armour is considered " out of date " too - and that doesn't mean that

the information about Armour is null and void now.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> This isn't about the author's credibility, this is about the potential for

> permanent harm.

> 10 mg daily pred over time would be a guarenteed first-class ticket to

> disaster. To call it

> full replacement is wildly wrong. 7 mg daily brings Cushings and 5 mg daily

> can easily

> shut down the HPA function if not handled in a skillful way at the withdrawl

> point. Jim

>

> BTW, Jeffries Book is WAY out of date.

>

Well...I don't want to get into an argument with ya - but I have to take

exception with some things.

I took adrenal support (prednisolone) 10 mg. a day for about three

months....and I don't have all the dire things you said would happen.

I do still have some weak adrenals though....since I sorta " crashed " after

some major bad news. But that doesn't surprise me. If ya go untreated for

thyroid disease a couple of decades, I imagine the adrenals are fairly weary and

don't bounce back to well.

And I don't take any exception to your overall warning about adrenal support.

But since you differ with at least two major thyroid docs on this issue

(Langer and Durrant-Peatfield)...and everything else they say about thyroid

disease is so totally accurate - I think I will put my faith in their words.

And no offense intended. It's just that I know too many folks who have been

helped by adrenal support as outlined - not harmed.

Also - Armour is considered " out of date " too - and that doesn't mean that

the information about Armour is null and void now.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> Calling 10 full replacement shows

> how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous dose to be

> taking in a

> regular way.

>

wow - when those docs were given me HUGE tapered doses of prednisone for

asthma (which was really hypo) twice a year for over 5 years - i guess they

didn't

know all dangerous it could be to shut down the adrenals like that.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> Calling 10 full replacement shows

> how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous dose to be

> taking in a

> regular way.

>

wow - when those docs were given me HUGE tapered doses of prednisone for

asthma (which was really hypo) twice a year for over 5 years - i guess they

didn't

know all dangerous it could be to shut down the adrenals like that.

cindi

[Guest guest]

> Prednisone is fine. Just keep it at 5 mg or below a day - 7mg at the

> most. 10mg of Prednisone is considered full replacement.

There is a lot of potential harm wrapped up in this sentence.

I have had diagnosed documented secondary hypopit 's for nearly 3 years

and I

have out of necessity studied my disease and corticosteroids extensively.

5 is daily 's full replacement dose for most people.

7 will invariably lead to Cushing's Syndrome if taken as replacement.

10 is so over the top that it doesn't deserve discussion. Calling 10 full

replacement shows

how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous dose to be

taking in a

regular way.

None of this is fine. Even 5 regularly for a month without skilled tapering (

and often

with proper tapering as well) will shut down the very fragile HPA and bring the

consumer

to the point of total dependency. Did you know that about 25% of people who go

A.I. as a

result of exogenous steroids end up losing their aldosterone production too,

lose their

capacity for a stable electrolyte balance and need florinef? It is a very

difficult state to be

in.

This isn't about the author's credibility, this is about the potential for

permanent harm.

10 mg daily pred over time would be a guarenteed first-class ticket to disaster.

To call it

full replacement is wildly wrong. 7 mg daily brings Cushings and 5 mg daily can

easily

shut down the HPA function if not handled in a skillful way at the withdrawl

point. Jim

BTW, Jeffries Book is WAY out of date.

[Guest guest]

> Prednisone is fine. Just keep it at 5 mg or below a day - 7mg at the

> most. 10mg of Prednisone is considered full replacement.

There is a lot of potential harm wrapped up in this sentence.

I have had diagnosed documented secondary hypopit 's for nearly 3 years

and I

have out of necessity studied my disease and corticosteroids extensively.

5 is daily 's full replacement dose for most people.

7 will invariably lead to Cushing's Syndrome if taken as replacement.

10 is so over the top that it doesn't deserve discussion. Calling 10 full

replacement shows

how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous dose to be

taking in a

regular way.

None of this is fine. Even 5 regularly for a month without skilled tapering (

and often

with proper tapering as well) will shut down the very fragile HPA and bring the

consumer

to the point of total dependency. Did you know that about 25% of people who go

A.I. as a

result of exogenous steroids end up losing their aldosterone production too,

lose their

capacity for a stable electrolyte balance and need florinef? It is a very

difficult state to be

in.

This isn't about the author's credibility, this is about the potential for

permanent harm.

10 mg daily pred over time would be a guarenteed first-class ticket to disaster.

To call it

full replacement is wildly wrong. 7 mg daily brings Cushings and 5 mg daily can

easily

shut down the HPA function if not handled in a skillful way at the withdrawl

point. Jim

BTW, Jeffries Book is WAY out of date.

[Guest guest]

Wow, when the dr put me on 40 mgs a day of Prednisone, it's a miracle

I'm able to function anymore. I was on that for quite some time. A

friend of mine who has lung problems is on Prednisone constantly?

Wonder what it's doing to her? eeeekk!

SandyE~Houston

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:52 EST

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jimchubb@... writes:

>

> > Calling 10 full replacement shows

> > how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous

>dose to be

> > taking in a

> > regular way.

> >

>

> wow - when those docs were given me HUGE tapered doses of prednisone

>for

> asthma (which was really hypo) twice a year for over 5 years - i

>guess they didn't

> know all dangerous it could be to shut down the adrenals like that.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, when the dr put me on 40 mgs a day of Prednisone, it's a miracle

I'm able to function anymore. I was on that for quite some time. A

friend of mine who has lung problems is on Prednisone constantly?

Wonder what it's doing to her? eeeekk!

SandyE~Houston

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:52 EST

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jimchubb@... writes:

>

> > Calling 10 full replacement shows

> > how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous

>dose to be

> > taking in a

> > regular way.

> >

>

> wow - when those docs were given me HUGE tapered doses of prednisone

>for

> asthma (which was really hypo) twice a year for over 5 years - i

>guess they didn't

> know all dangerous it could be to shut down the adrenals like that.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, when the dr put me on 40 mgs a day of Prednisone, it's a miracle

I'm able to function anymore. I was on that for quite some time. A

friend of mine who has lung problems is on Prednisone constantly?

Wonder what it's doing to her? eeeekk!

SandyE~Houston

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:52 EST

nc2406@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:49:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> jimchubb@... writes:

>

> > Calling 10 full replacement shows

> > how big a gap there is in your knowledge; an extremely hazardous

>dose to be

> > taking in a

> > regular way.

> >

>

> wow - when those docs were given me HUGE tapered doses of prednisone

>for

> asthma (which was really hypo) twice a year for over 5 years - i

>guess they didn't

> know all dangerous it could be to shut down the adrenals like that.

> cindi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 7:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> I took adrenal support (prednisolone) 10 mg. a day for about three

> >months....and I don't have all the dire things you said would happen.

>

and let me clarify myself - i didn't take 10...I took 5....what i have are

2.5 pills.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 7:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> . I've got Langer's book infront of me and no

> where in the context of treating thyroid disease does he advocate taking

> corticosteroids.

> Right at the end, in the afterword, he mentions Jeffries book and dosing for

> adrenal

> exhaustion. Other than the last afterword paragraph that is all there is so

> I don't see how

> you can say I disagree with a thyroid doc when he barely brings up the

> subject!

>

yes, he has it both in the afterword (stating .....a small amount of

hydrocortisone - 5 mg four times a day, after meals and at bedtime)...

and also earlier in the book on page 168.

cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/4/2005 7:07:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jimchubb@... writes:

> I'm not sure about the logic that connects Armour to " Safe Uses of

> Cortisol " through the

> the use of the phrase " out of date. " Armour is an older product but it is

> excellent and

> only considered " out of date " by people hypnotized by some idea about how

> thyroxine is

> supposed to work and take care of everything for everyone.

>

which would be most of the medical profession...who consider it out of

date...as well as about every source...who consider it out of date. They are

wrong.

Perhaps the folks who think Jeffries is wrong have also been hypnotized?

cindi

[Guest guest]

> Well...I don't want to get into an argument with ya - but I have to take

> exception with some things.

> I took adrenal support (prednisolone) 10 mg. a day for about three

> months....and I don't have all the dire things you said would happen.

I should have been both clearer and more understanding. A ten mg disaster would

be the

result of considering it to be replacement dose and thus taking it every day for

the rest of

your life as one must do when taking a replacement dose>

> And I don't take any exception to your overall warning about adrenal support.

> But since you differ with at least two major thyroid docs on this issue

> (Langer and Durrant-Peatfield)...and everything else they say about thyroid

> disease is so totally accurate - I think I will put my faith in their words.

OK, as you like. I'm certainly not a thyroid doc. I've got Langer's book infront

of me and no

where in the context of treating thyroid disease does he advocate taking

corticosteroids.

Right at the end, in the afterword, he mentions Jeffries book and dosing for

adrenal

exhaustion. Other than the last afterword paragraph that is all there is so I

don't see how

you can say I disagree with a thyroid doc when he barely brings up the subject!

> Also - Armour is considered " out of date " too - and that doesn't mean that

> the information about Armour is null and void now.

I'm not sure about the logic that connects Armour to " Safe Uses of Cortisol "

through the

the use of the phrase " out of date. " Armour is an older product but it is

excellent and

only considered " out of date " by people hypnotized by some idea about how

thyroxine is

supposed to work and take care of everything for everyone.

You know Jeffries book is very interesting and I

only am concerned with how current it's knowledge is when it says, for instance

on page

13 that a replacement dose of cortisol, that is a dose suitable for someone with

no adrenal

function, is 35-40 mg. This is just wrong and there is no way around it. Major

big time

wrong. All I have to do is read this and I know I'm reading an old book. Show me

an

ian on 35-40 mg for two years and I'll be able to point out

every corticosteroid side effect in the book. I could list them but probably

uneccesary.

Jeffries also makes the statement on the same page that people naturally produce

about

20 mg but ians need 35-40 mg because 60% of the HC is not utilized when

taken

orally. This is poppycock, what can I say? HC is currently considered to be very

easily

absorbed through the GI tract and very efficiently utilized. I only need 17.5-19

mg/day/

every day and I'm doing great except for some emerging pituitary origin

hypothyroid stuff.

Anyway, thanks for being nice and having no urge to kill the messenger.... Jim