Re: New lab results -- TISH !

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish!

Your response to Elisabeth caught my attention...especially your

comment about adrenal problems slowing conversion of T4 to T3! Can

you provide anymore information on this, please?

In hindsight I see that I've had adrenal problems/symptoms for many

years (lots of long-term stress and traumas).

I'm a poor converter myself...when I began Armour 5 months ago my TSH

was 5.4 and my FT4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8). (The lab ignored my doctor's FT3

request.)

My labs after 3 months on Armour (which included 2 grains for the

previous 7 weeks) and 100 mg/day of Selenium...showed my TSH down to

1.2 and my FT3 at 252 (230-420). I'm assuming my FT3 was even lower

prior to meds.

As I've increased my Armour slowly, I've had a great increase in body

aches and pains and have been wondering if this could be

adrenal-related...perhaps increasing my Armour has taxed my adrenals

further?

I know it's a hypo symptom, which I've always had, but the

fact that it has increased after I hit 2 grains (I'm on 4 now) has me

wondering what the origin of the pain is. I continue to have a number

of other adrenal symptoms/issues.

I'll be doing a saliva test soon, which will give more answers, but in

the meantime I've been trying to piece together my puzzle.

I would very much appreciate any information or ideas...I haven't been

able to work, much less be productive in any way, shape, or form for

quite a few months now and I'm trying to figure things out since I'm

just not getting better.

Thank you!!

> Looks like you are

> not converting your T4 to T3 well. What's your diet like? Do you

get

> adequate nutrition? Or you could have bad adrenal problems slowing

> conversion of T4 to T3. Since T4 is relatively inactive, you must

be

> able to convert it to T3 to get energy.

>

> People who have thyroid failure tend to have low T4 and T3 near the

> middle of the range. Your's is the opposit. So, this makes me think

> it is something else that is causing your hypothyroidism by

> impairing your ability to convert T4 to T3.

>

> It's possible that you could have adrenal problems slowing down

your

> thyroid function and not a thyroid problem.

>

> Tish

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish!

Your response to Elisabeth caught my attention...especially your

comment about adrenal problems slowing conversion of T4 to T3! Can

you provide anymore information on this, please?

In hindsight I see that I've had adrenal problems/symptoms for many

years (lots of long-term stress and traumas).

I'm a poor converter myself...when I began Armour 5 months ago my TSH

was 5.4 and my FT4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8). (The lab ignored my doctor's FT3

request.)

My labs after 3 months on Armour (which included 2 grains for the

previous 7 weeks) and 100 mg/day of Selenium...showed my TSH down to

1.2 and my FT3 at 252 (230-420). I'm assuming my FT3 was even lower

prior to meds.

As I've increased my Armour slowly, I've had a great increase in body

aches and pains and have been wondering if this could be

adrenal-related...perhaps increasing my Armour has taxed my adrenals

further?

I know it's a hypo symptom, which I've always had, but the

fact that it has increased after I hit 2 grains (I'm on 4 now) has me

wondering what the origin of the pain is. I continue to have a number

of other adrenal symptoms/issues.

I'll be doing a saliva test soon, which will give more answers, but in

the meantime I've been trying to piece together my puzzle.

I would very much appreciate any information or ideas...I haven't been

able to work, much less be productive in any way, shape, or form for

quite a few months now and I'm trying to figure things out since I'm

just not getting better.

Thank you!!

> Looks like you are

> not converting your T4 to T3 well. What's your diet like? Do you

get

> adequate nutrition? Or you could have bad adrenal problems slowing

> conversion of T4 to T3. Since T4 is relatively inactive, you must

be

> able to convert it to T3 to get energy.

>

> People who have thyroid failure tend to have low T4 and T3 near the

> middle of the range. Your's is the opposit. So, this makes me think

> it is something else that is causing your hypothyroidism by

> impairing your ability to convert T4 to T3.

>

> It's possible that you could have adrenal problems slowing down

your

> thyroid function and not a thyroid problem.

>

> Tish

[Guest guest]

Hi , This is Janie, but thought I'd contribute. Am I reading

correctly that you are now up to 4 grains, and your aches and pains

have increased even still? Then yes, it would be wise to do the 24

hour adrenal test. Have you tested your Ferritin? Many folks have

found their Ferritin to be quite low--there seems to be some kind of

connection with low Ferritin and hypo in some folks. And it could

cause the same issues you are describing, as well.

Janie

>...when I began Armour 5 months ago my TSH

> was 5.4 and my FT4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8). (The lab ignored my doctor's

FT3

> request.)

>

> My labs after 3 months on Armour (which included 2 grains for the

> previous 7 weeks) and 100 mg/day of Selenium...showed my TSH down to

> 1.2 and my FT3 at 252 (230-420). I'm assuming my FT3 was even lower

> prior to meds.

>

> As I've increased my Armour slowly, I've had a great increase in

body

> aches and pains and have been wondering if this could be

> adrenal-related...perhaps increasing my Armour has taxed my adrenals

> further?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , This is Janie, but thought I'd contribute. Am I reading

correctly that you are now up to 4 grains, and your aches and pains

have increased even still? Then yes, it would be wise to do the 24

hour adrenal test. Have you tested your Ferritin? Many folks have

found their Ferritin to be quite low--there seems to be some kind of

connection with low Ferritin and hypo in some folks. And it could

cause the same issues you are describing, as well.

Janie

>...when I began Armour 5 months ago my TSH

> was 5.4 and my FT4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8). (The lab ignored my doctor's

FT3

> request.)

>

> My labs after 3 months on Armour (which included 2 grains for the

> previous 7 weeks) and 100 mg/day of Selenium...showed my TSH down to

> 1.2 and my FT3 at 252 (230-420). I'm assuming my FT3 was even lower

> prior to meds.

>

> As I've increased my Armour slowly, I've had a great increase in

body

> aches and pains and have been wondering if this could be

> adrenal-related...perhaps increasing my Armour has taxed my adrenals

> further?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , This is Janie, but thought I'd contribute. Am I reading

correctly that you are now up to 4 grains, and your aches and pains

have increased even still? Then yes, it would be wise to do the 24

hour adrenal test. Have you tested your Ferritin? Many folks have

found their Ferritin to be quite low--there seems to be some kind of

connection with low Ferritin and hypo in some folks. And it could

cause the same issues you are describing, as well.

Janie

>...when I began Armour 5 months ago my TSH

> was 5.4 and my FT4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8). (The lab ignored my doctor's

FT3

> request.)

>

> My labs after 3 months on Armour (which included 2 grains for the

> previous 7 weeks) and 100 mg/day of Selenium...showed my TSH down to

> 1.2 and my FT3 at 252 (230-420). I'm assuming my FT3 was even lower

> prior to meds.

>

> As I've increased my Armour slowly, I've had a great increase in

body

> aches and pains and have been wondering if this could be

> adrenal-related...perhaps increasing my Armour has taxed my adrenals

> further?

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think it is fully understood by scientists. I have one paper

on it, where they say it happens, but they don't know how exactly it

happens. Some doctors have written that because cortisol stimulates

the production of glucose in the liver and plays a role in

maintaining proper glucose in the blood, that when cortisol is low,

glucose drops and causes hypoglycemia. When glucose drops, the

enzyme reaction that converts T4 to T3 can't work because it needs a

small amount of energy (glucose) to to the job. Also, glucose is

needed by the cell to make energy and do things after being

stimulated by thyroid hormone. Others have written that Cortisol

plays a role in the ability of thyroid hormone to get into cells.

Cortisol is definitely part of the equation for the body to be able

to make energy from thyroid. When a person is producing a lot of

cortisol, as in stress, this tends to cause the body to use up T3

and to convert more T4 to T3. So, in some ways it explains why type

A men who have heart disease also have been found to have high rates

of low T3 levels. As we age, the thyroid slows down, so pumping in a

lot of cortisol with stress, can deplete thyroid that the gland is

not quite fast enough to replace.

Here is one paper below. Tish

_________________________

Gen Comp Endocrinol. 2005 Jan 15;140(2):101-8. Epub 2004 Nov 24.

Related Articles, Links

Regulation of thyroid hormone availability in liver and brain by

glucocorticoids.

Reyns GE, Verhoelst CH, Kuhn ER, Darras VM, Van der Geyten S.

Laboratory of Comparative Endocrinology, Zoological Institute, K.U.

Leuven, Naamsestraat 61, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium.

Glucocorticoids as well as thyroid hormones are essential for normal

brain development. Exogenous glucocorticoids stimulate 3,3',5-

triiodothyronine (T(3)) availability in circulation of birds and

similar effects have been observed in sheep. Chicken data indicate

that glucocorticoid administration also stimulates thyroid hormone

metabolism in brain but the effects on local thyroid hormone

concentrations are not known. Therefore, the current study: (1)

determined local thyroid hormone availability in separate brain

areas of 18-day-old embryonic chickens (E18) after injection of

dexamethasone (DEX), and (2) investigated the impact on the thyroid

hormone metabolic pathways in these brain parts and compared the

results with the hepatic situation. For this, E18 chicken embryos

were treated with a single intravenous dose of DEX (25mug). Despite

the decreased 3,5,3',5-tetraiodothyronine (T(4)) availability in the

liver of the DEX treated embryos, the T(3) content was strongly

increased, parallel to the plasma T(3) surge. This T(3) surge was

primarily related to a fall in hepatic T(3) breakdown through a

downregulation of the type III deiodinase (D3). The sulfation

pathway in liver seems not to be affected by DEX. In all brain

parts, DEX affects the T(3) production capacity by upregulation of

the type II deiodinase (D2). This enables the brain to compensate

for the decrease in T(4) availability, although the T(3)

concentrations are not consistently increased like in plasma and

liver. This observation points to the existence of a fine-tuning

mechanism in brain that enables the brain to keep the T(3)

concentrations within narrow limits.

PMID: 15613272 [PubMed - in process]

[Guest guest]

I don't think it is fully understood by scientists. I have one paper

on it, where they say it happens, but they don't know how exactly it

happens. Some doctors have written that because cortisol stimulates

the production of glucose in the liver and plays a role in

maintaining proper glucose in the blood, that when cortisol is low,

glucose drops and causes hypoglycemia. When glucose drops, the

enzyme reaction that converts T4 to T3 can't work because it needs a

small amount of energy (glucose) to to the job. Also, glucose is

needed by the cell to make energy and do things after being

stimulated by thyroid hormone. Others have written that Cortisol

plays a role in the ability of thyroid hormone to get into cells.

Cortisol is definitely part of the equation for the body to be able

to make energy from thyroid. When a person is producing a lot of

cortisol, as in stress, this tends to cause the body to use up T3

and to convert more T4 to T3. So, in some ways it explains why type

A men who have heart disease also have been found to have high rates

of low T3 levels. As we age, the thyroid slows down, so pumping in a

lot of cortisol with stress, can deplete thyroid that the gland is

not quite fast enough to replace.

Here is one paper below. Tish

_________________________

Gen Comp Endocrinol. 2005 Jan 15;140(2):101-8. Epub 2004 Nov 24.

Related Articles, Links

Regulation of thyroid hormone availability in liver and brain by

glucocorticoids.

Reyns GE, Verhoelst CH, Kuhn ER, Darras VM, Van der Geyten S.

Laboratory of Comparative Endocrinology, Zoological Institute, K.U.

Leuven, Naamsestraat 61, B-3000 Leuven, Belgium.

Glucocorticoids as well as thyroid hormones are essential for normal

brain development. Exogenous glucocorticoids stimulate 3,3',5-

triiodothyronine (T(3)) availability in circulation of birds and

similar effects have been observed in sheep. Chicken data indicate

that glucocorticoid administration also stimulates thyroid hormone

metabolism in brain but the effects on local thyroid hormone

concentrations are not known. Therefore, the current study: (1)

determined local thyroid hormone availability in separate brain

areas of 18-day-old embryonic chickens (E18) after injection of

dexamethasone (DEX), and (2) investigated the impact on the thyroid

hormone metabolic pathways in these brain parts and compared the

results with the hepatic situation. For this, E18 chicken embryos

were treated with a single intravenous dose of DEX (25mug). Despite

the decreased 3,5,3',5-tetraiodothyronine (T(4)) availability in the

liver of the DEX treated embryos, the T(3) content was strongly

increased, parallel to the plasma T(3) surge. This T(3) surge was

primarily related to a fall in hepatic T(3) breakdown through a

downregulation of the type III deiodinase (D3). The sulfation

pathway in liver seems not to be affected by DEX. In all brain

parts, DEX affects the T(3) production capacity by upregulation of

the type II deiodinase (D2). This enables the brain to compensate

for the decrease in T(4) availability, although the T(3)

concentrations are not consistently increased like in plasma and

liver. This observation points to the existence of a fine-tuning

mechanism in brain that enables the brain to keep the T(3)

concentrations within narrow limits.

PMID: 15613272 [PubMed - in process]

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your help, Tish!

It definitely makes sense and I printed out the article to show my

doctor. I do recall him telling me that my hypoglycemic symptoms were

probably related to my adrenals.

Very interesting information...

Thanks again!

> When glucose drops, the

> enzyme reaction that converts T4 to T3 can't work because it needs

a

> small amount of energy (glucose) to to the job. Also, glucose is

> needed by the cell to make energy and do things after being

> stimulated by thyroid hormone. Others have written that Cortisol

> plays a role in the ability of thyroid hormone to get into cells.

> Cortisol is definitely part of the equation for the body to be able

> to make energy from thyroid. When a person is producing a lot of

> cortisol, as in stress, this tends to cause the body to use up T3

> and to convert more T4 to T3. So, in some ways it explains why type

> A men who have heart disease also have been found to have high

rates

> of low T3 levels. As we age, the thyroid slows down, so pumping in

a

> lot of cortisol with stress, can deplete thyroid that the gland is

> not quite fast enough to replace.

>

> Here is one paper below. Tish

> _________________________

>