Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 This explains SOOOooo much. I have been under herrendous stress from mercury illness and some other things to boot. My question is, under the circumstances, I do not see a reason to take T4 at all. It seems to me that taking T3 only would be a better approach for me. I looked at the site for WILSON'S T3 and it makes sense for everything except that I can not afford to try it. ~Inga on 2/20/05 4:14 PM, *~ OM ~* at OM@... wrote: > > > > MORE THYROID INFORMATION > > http://drguberman.com/news.cfm?date_range=8/01/04 > > Armour and Thyrolar both contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. This is 4 > parts T4 to 1 part T3 (the exact ratio is 4.22 to 1). Some endocrinologists > now advocate the use of products containing both T4 and T3, but they > recommend a higher T4 to T3 ratio. They prefer a ratio 10 parts T4 to 1 part > T3. The lower T3 content of such products renders them far less effective > than Armour and Thyrolar. In our clinical experience, the treatment outcome > is inferior for patients who use products with the lower T3 content. The > inferior treatment outcome is supported by two recent studies conducted by > endocrinologists.[1][2] The studies showed that patients who added only a > small amount of T3 to their T4 continued to suffer from symptoms, just as > did patients who used T4 alone. The ratios of T4 to T3 the patients used > varied, but most used a higher T4 to T3 ration than in Armour and Thyrolar. > Of course, the endocrinologists restricted the patients' dosages according > to their TSH and thyroid hormone levels, and this almost guaranteed that the > patients took too little thyroid hormone and continued to suffer from > hypothyroid symptoms. If a new dose of Armour contains too little T4 and T3 > to benefit you, you’ll have to go through another evaluation period. And > you’ll have to do this again and again until you find what I call your > therapeutic window " —a small dosage range that optimally benefits you without > overstimulating you. That optimal dosage range is highly individual, but > historically, the typical patient’s therapeutic window has been somewhere > between 120 to 240 mg (2 to 4 grains). There’s no way to accurately predict > what your therapeutic window is. Until you find it, you may not improve much > from the Armour. But once you do, you’re likely to feel that the wait was > well worth it. > > The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that > drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5 > -deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the " 5'- " as " five-prime > " ) Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain > normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the > metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically > inactive. T4 " drives " metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts > it to T3. > > Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to > reverse-T3. Reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a > way to help clear some T4 from the body. > > Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. > They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 > continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and > reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. > Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body > eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of > deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in > this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is > dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs. > > Under certain conditions, the conversion of T4 to T3 decreases, and more > reverse T3 is produced from T4. Three of these conditions are food > deprivation (as during fasting or starvation), illness (such as liver > disease), and stresses that increase the blood level of the stress hormone > called cortisol. We assume that reduced conversion of T4 to T3 under such > conditions slows metabolism and aids survival. > > Thus, during fasting, disease, or stress, the conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 > increases. At these times, conversion of T4 to T3 decreases about 50%, and > conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases about 50%. Under normal, > non-stressful conditions, different enzymes convert some T4 to T3 and some > to reverse-T3. The same is true during fasting, illness, or stress; only the > percentages change--less T4 is converted to T3 and more is converted to > reverse-T3. > > The reduced T3 level that occurs during illness, fasting, or stress slows > the metabolism of many tissues. Because of the slowed metabolism, the body > does not eliminate reverse-T3 as rapidly as usual. The slowed elimination > from the body allows the reverse-T3 level in the blood to increase > considerably. > > In addition, during stressful experiences such as surgery and combat, the > amount of the stress hormone cortisol increases. The increase inhibits > conversion of T4 to T3; conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. The same > inhibition occurs when a patient has Cushing's syndrome, a disease in which > the adrenal glands produce too much cortisol. Inhibition also occurs when a > patient begins taking cortisol as a medication such as prednisone. However, > whether the increased circulating cortisol occurs from stress, Cushing's > syndrome, or taking prednisone, the inhibition of T4 to T3 conversion is > temporary. It seldom lasts for more than one-to-three weeks, even if the > circulating cortisol level continues to be high. Studies have documented > that the inhibition is temporary. > > A popular belief nowadays (proposed by Dr. Dennis ) has not been proven > to be true, and much scientific evidence tips the scales in the " false " > direction with regard to this idea. The belief is that the process involving > impaired T4 to T3 conversion--with increases in reverse-T3--becomes stuck. The > " stuck " conversion is supposed to cause chronic low T3 levels and chronically > slowed metabolism. Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the > culprit, continually blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive > substrate for the 5’-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted > by studies of the dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 > conversion. Laboratory studies have shown that when factors such as increased > cortisol levels cause a decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 > to reverse-T3 conversion, the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 > produced is only temporary. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 In a message dated 3/8/2005 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, starz@... writes: > what is the difference in 's T3 and just ordering T3 ? > i think wilson's is time-released T3. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 In a message dated 3/8/2005 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, starz@... writes: > what is the difference in 's T3 and just ordering T3 ? > i think wilson's is time-released T3. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 In a message dated 3/8/2005 10:08:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, starz@... writes: > what is the difference in 's T3 and just ordering T3 ? > i think wilson's is time-released T3. cindi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 on 3/8/05 9:12 PM, sandy at starz@... wrote: > > what is the difference in 's T3 and just ordering T3 ? >>>I don't know - Paying a bunch to a doctor??? No seriously, one difference is that they have a compounding pharmacy make you a timed-release formula so you only have to take twice a day, I believe. Then there is also some kind of adrenal protocl they have. I do not know much about it yet. It may or may not be covered in the free online book. http://www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com/eManual/Introduction/ >>>I think I am gong to try and do it on my own. Now, to decide between CYTOMEL and THYTROPHIN...Hmmmm..... >>>Val, do you have sources for both of those...I have something, I think, but woud like to see what you have. ~Inga > > SandyE~Houston > Re: *Reverse T3-OM > > > This explains SOOOooo much. I have been under herrendous stress from mercury > illness and some other things to boot. > > My question is, under the circumstances, I do not see a reason to take T4 at > all. It seems to me that taking T3 only would be a better approach for me. I > looked at the site for WILSON'S T3 and it makes sense for everything except > that I can not afford to try it. > ~Inga > > > on 2/20/05 4:14 PM, *~ OM ~* at OM@... wrote: > >> >> >> >> MORE THYROID INFORMATION >> >> http://drguberman.com/news.cfm?date_range=8/01/04 >> >> Armour and Thyrolar both contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. This is 4 >> parts T4 to 1 part T3 (the exact ratio is 4.22 to 1). Some endocrinologists >> now advocate the use of products containing both T4 and T3, but they >> recommend a higher T4 to T3 ratio. They prefer a ratio 10 parts T4 to 1 part >> T3. The lower T3 content of such products renders them far less effective >> than Armour and Thyrolar. In our clinical experience, the treatment outcome >> is inferior for patients who use products with the lower T3 content. The >> inferior treatment outcome is supported by two recent studies conducted by >> endocrinologists.[1][2] The studies showed that patients who added only a >> small amount of T3 to their T4 continued to suffer from symptoms, just as >> did patients who used T4 alone. The ratios of T4 to T3 the patients used >> varied, but most used a higher T4 to T3 ration than in Armour and Thyrolar. >> Of course, the endocrinologists restricted the patients' dosages according >> to their TSH and thyroid hormone levels, and this almost guaranteed that the >> patients took too little thyroid hormone and continued to suffer from >> hypothyroid symptoms. If a new dose of Armour contains too little T4 and T3 >> to benefit you, you'll have to go through another evaluation period. And >> you'll have to do this again and again until you find what I call your >> therapeutic window " -a small dosage range that optimally benefits you without >> overstimulating you. That optimal dosage range is highly individual, but >> historically, the typical patient's therapeutic window has been somewhere >> between 120 to 240 mg (2 to 4 grains). There's no way to accurately predict >> what your therapeutic window is. Until you find it, you may not improve much >> from the Armour. But once you do, you're likely to feel that the wait was >> well worth it. >> >> The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that >> drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5 >> -deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the " 5'- " as " five-prime >> " ) Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain >> normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the >> metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically >> inactive. T4 " drives " metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts >> it to T3. >> >> Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to >> reverse-T3. Reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a >> way to help clear some T4 from the body. >> >> Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. >> They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 >> continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and >> reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. >> Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body >> eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of >> deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in >> this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is >> dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs. >> >> Under certain conditions, the conversion of T4 to T3 decreases, and more >> reverse T3 is produced from T4. Three of these conditions are food >> deprivation (as during fasting or starvation), illness (such as liver >> disease), and stresses that increase the blood level of the stress hormone >> called cortisol. We assume that reduced conversion of T4 to T3 under such >> conditions slows metabolism and aids survival. >> >> Thus, during fasting, disease, or stress, the conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 >> increases. At these times, conversion of T4 to T3 decreases about 50%, and >> conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases about 50%. Under normal, >> non-stressful conditions, different enzymes convert some T4 to T3 and some >> to reverse-T3. The same is true during fasting, illness, or stress; only the >> percentages change--less T4 is converted to T3 and more is converted to >> reverse-T3. >> >> The reduced T3 level that occurs during illness, fasting, or stress slows >> the metabolism of many tissues. Because of the slowed metabolism, the body >> does not eliminate reverse-T3 as rapidly as usual. The slowed elimination >> from the body allows the reverse-T3 level in the blood to increase >> considerably. >> >> In addition, during stressful experiences such as surgery and combat, the >> amount of the stress hormone cortisol increases. The increase inhibits >> conversion of T4 to T3; conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. The same >> inhibition occurs when a patient has Cushing's syndrome, a disease in which >> the adrenal glands produce too much cortisol. Inhibition also occurs when a >> patient begins taking cortisol as a medication such as prednisone. However, >> whether the increased circulating cortisol occurs from stress, Cushing's >> syndrome, or taking prednisone, the inhibition of T4 to T3 conversion is >> temporary. It seldom lasts for more than one-to-three weeks, even if the >> circulating cortisol level continues to be high. Studies have documented >> that the inhibition is temporary. >> >> A popular belief nowadays (proposed by Dr. Dennis ) has not been proven >> to be true, and much scientific evidence tips the scales in the " false " >> direction with regard to this idea. The belief is that the process involving >> impaired T4 to T3 conversion--with increases in reverse-T3--becomes stuck. >> The >> " stuck " conversion is supposed to cause chronic low T3 levels and chronically >> slowed metabolism. Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the >> culprit, continually blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive >> substrate for the 5'-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted >> by studies of the dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 >> conversion. Laboratory studies have shown that when factors such as increased >> cortisol levels cause a decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 >> to reverse-T3 conversion, the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 >> produced is only temporary. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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