Confused about ingredients

[Guest guest]

I have been reading these messages for a couple months and they have

helped me a lot. Especially the concept of Less is More. I needed to

be steered away from the " Hope in a Bottle " syndrome!

I am pleased that everyone shares so much information about

ingredients, but I have a much more basic question. What ingredients

should I be avoiding? I know that everyone here is different, and have

different sensitivities, but are there any ingredients that most

people ought to be avoiding?

The reason this comes to mind now is that I need to find a sunscreen

that will work. I look at labels and it just all looks undecipherable

to me.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Claire

[Guest guest]

, I find posts like yours so helpful. Some of my information

differs slightly -- for example, I've heard only some of the

simethicones are comedogenic, and I've not heard about petroleum

products causing redness (what would be the mechanism for that?). But

overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would fit

right in.

Marjorie

> Here are a few generalities though:

>

> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

sensitive

> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin " include

many

> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

skin)

>

> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

mineral oil)

>

> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks like

zinc

> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients are

> bump-causing.)

>

> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation of

rosacea

> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

>

> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> comedogenic.

>

> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

moment....

>

> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

>

> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

>

> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> http://www.psico.com/>

>

> Hope all this is helpful!

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I find posts like yours so helpful. Some of my information

differs slightly -- for example, I've heard only some of the

simethicones are comedogenic, and I've not heard about petroleum

products causing redness (what would be the mechanism for that?). But

overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would fit

right in.

Marjorie

> Here are a few generalities though:

>

> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

sensitive

> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin " include

many

> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

skin)

>

> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

mineral oil)

>

> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks like

zinc

> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients are

> bump-causing.)

>

> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation of

rosacea

> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

>

> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> comedogenic.

>

> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

moment....

>

> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

>

> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

>

> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> http://www.psico.com/>

>

> Hope all this is helpful!

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I find posts like yours so helpful. Some of my information

differs slightly -- for example, I've heard only some of the

simethicones are comedogenic, and I've not heard about petroleum

products causing redness (what would be the mechanism for that?). But

overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would fit

right in.

Marjorie

> Here are a few generalities though:

>

> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

sensitive

> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin " include

many

> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

skin)

>

> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

mineral oil)

>

> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks like

zinc

> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients are

> bump-causing.)

>

> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation of

rosacea

> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

>

> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> comedogenic.

>

> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

moment....

>

> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

>

> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

>

> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> http://www.psico.com/>

>

> Hope all this is helpful!

>

>

[Guest guest]

on 4/28/02 7:09 AM, emarjency at emarjency@... wrote:

> , I find posts like yours so helpful. Some of my information

> differs slightly -- for example, I've heard only some of the

> simethicones are comedogenic,

I was generalizing the " cones " . It may be that it is only the simethicones

that are comedogenic. I would like to get more specific in the database.

>and I've not heard about petroleum

> products causing redness (what would be the mechanism for that?).

I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure petroleum with

almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages on this

board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow irritating

to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to the

surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream which is

predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some information.

> overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

> product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

> posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would fit

> right in.

Yes, I agree this would be a very helpful and useful guide in deciphering

ingredient lists!

>> Here are a few generalities though:

>>

>> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

> sensitive

>> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin " include

> many

>> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

> skin)

>>

>> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

> mineral oil)

>>

>> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks like

> zinc

>> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients are

>> bump-causing.)

>>

>> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation of

> rosacea

>> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

>>

>> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

>> comedogenic.

>>

>> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

> moment....

>>

>> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

>>

>> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

>> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

>>

>> Pharmaceutical Specialties

>> http://www.psico.com/>

>>

>> Hope all this is helpful!

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

on 4/30/02 11:04 PM, emarjency at emarjency@... wrote:

>> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

> petroleum with

>> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

> on this

>> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

> irritating

>> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

> the

>> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

>> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

> which is

>> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>>

>> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

> information.

>

> , I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

> there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

> petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

> (increased facial redness due to more blood

> flowing through the blood vessels).

> dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

> vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

> we had a little show and tell. "

>

> When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

> inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

> from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

> when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

> again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

> rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

> wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

Yes, I think it has ALOT to do with damaged blood vessels....that is where

my skin tends to be inflamed.

> I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

> suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

> reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

> skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

> through).

I guess I should have been clearer too....my comments were about rosacea

skin! I would disagree that Dr. Nase was simply saying that ANYTHING can

cause a reaction in unhealthy skin. He was talking about petroleum products

in particular in that message.

And as Dr. Nase was a rosacea patient with EXTREMELY inflamed skin, why the

heck was his dermatologist insisting (to he of unhealthy skin) that

petroleum could not possibly cause a reaction!! Wake up, Mr. Dermatologist!!

[Guest guest]

on 4/30/02 11:04 PM, emarjency at emarjency@... wrote:

>> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

> petroleum with

>> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

> on this

>> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

> irritating

>> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

> the

>> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

>> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

> which is

>> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>>

>> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

> information.

>

> , I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

> there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

> petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

> (increased facial redness due to more blood

> flowing through the blood vessels).

> dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

> vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

> we had a little show and tell. "

>

> When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

> inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

> from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

> when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

> again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

> rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

> wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

Yes, I think it has ALOT to do with damaged blood vessels....that is where

my skin tends to be inflamed.

> I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

> suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

> reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

> skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

> through).

I guess I should have been clearer too....my comments were about rosacea

skin! I would disagree that Dr. Nase was simply saying that ANYTHING can

cause a reaction in unhealthy skin. He was talking about petroleum products

in particular in that message.

And as Dr. Nase was a rosacea patient with EXTREMELY inflamed skin, why the

heck was his dermatologist insisting (to he of unhealthy skin) that

petroleum could not possibly cause a reaction!! Wake up, Mr. Dermatologist!!

[Guest guest]

on 4/30/02 11:04 PM, emarjency at emarjency@... wrote:

>> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

> petroleum with

>> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

> on this

>> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

> irritating

>> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

> the

>> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

>> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

> which is

>> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>>

>> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

> information.

>

> , I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

> there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

> petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

> (increased facial redness due to more blood

> flowing through the blood vessels).

> dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

> vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

> we had a little show and tell. "

>

> When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

> inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

> from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

> when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

> again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

> rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

> wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

Yes, I think it has ALOT to do with damaged blood vessels....that is where

my skin tends to be inflamed.

> I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

> suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

> reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

> skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

> through).

I guess I should have been clearer too....my comments were about rosacea

skin! I would disagree that Dr. Nase was simply saying that ANYTHING can

cause a reaction in unhealthy skin. He was talking about petroleum products

in particular in that message.

And as Dr. Nase was a rosacea patient with EXTREMELY inflamed skin, why the

heck was his dermatologist insisting (to he of unhealthy skin) that

petroleum could not possibly cause a reaction!! Wake up, Mr. Dermatologist!!

[Guest guest]

> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

petroleum with

> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

on this

> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

irritating

> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

the

> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

which is

> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>

> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

information.

, I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

(increased facial redness due to more blood

flowing through the blood vessels).

dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

we had a little show and tell. "

When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

through).

That's an important distinction -- the list of ingredients are those

that are irritating to healthy skin with intact barriers, so are all

the more likely to cause reactions when the barrier is compromised.

Even ingredients like petrolam that are not normally reactive become

so when the barrier is compromised, but a list of those ingredients

would include everything. Not very helpful for figuring out the most

likely culprit.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> > overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

> > product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

> > posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would

fit

> > right in.

>

> Yes, I agree this would be a very helpful and useful guide in

deciphering

> ingredient lists!

>

>

>

> >> Here are a few generalities though:

> >>

> >> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

> > sensitive

> >> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin "

include

> > many

> >> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

> > skin)

> >>

> >> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

> > mineral oil)

> >>

> >> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks

like

> > zinc

> >> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients

are

> >> bump-causing.)

> >>

> >> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation

of

> > rosacea

> >> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

> >>

> >> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> >> comedogenic.

> >>

> >> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

> > moment....

> >>

> >> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

> >>

> >> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> >> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

> >>

> >> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> >> http://www.psico.com/>

> >>

> >> Hope all this is helpful!

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

petroleum with

> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

on this

> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

irritating

> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

the

> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

which is

> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>

> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

information.

, I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

(increased facial redness due to more blood

flowing through the blood vessels).

dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

we had a little show and tell. "

When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

through).

That's an important distinction -- the list of ingredients are those

that are irritating to healthy skin with intact barriers, so are all

the more likely to cause reactions when the barrier is compromised.

Even ingredients like petrolam that are not normally reactive become

so when the barrier is compromised, but a list of those ingredients

would include everything. Not very helpful for figuring out the most

likely culprit.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> > overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

> > product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

> > posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would

fit

> > right in.

>

> Yes, I agree this would be a very helpful and useful guide in

deciphering

> ingredient lists!

>

>

>

> >> Here are a few generalities though:

> >>

> >> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

> > sensitive

> >> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin "

include

> > many

> >> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

> > skin)

> >>

> >> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

> > mineral oil)

> >>

> >> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks

like

> > zinc

> >> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients

are

> >> bump-causing.)

> >>

> >> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation

of

> > rosacea

> >> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

> >>

> >> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> >> comedogenic.

> >>

> >> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

> > moment....

> >>

> >> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

> >>

> >> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> >> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

> >>

> >> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> >> http://www.psico.com/>

> >>

> >> Hope all this is helpful!

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

> I don't know the mechanism per se, however I react to pure

petroleum with

> almost immediate redness and heat. I've seen quite a few messages

on this

> board over time saying same/similar. I suspect that it is somehow

irritating

> to those areas of my face that have damaged blood vessels close to

the

> surface... Personally I seem to do ok with -some- (mineral oil) in a

> product, but definitely not as the main ingredient (like Vanicream

which is

> predominantly white petroleum - redness, heat, some stinging.)

>

> See msg# 2479: Dr. Nase on petroleum/mineral oil for some

information.

, I took a look at the post from Dr. Nase. He says " ...When

there is a chronic inflammatory response, topical

petrolatum can cause localized hyperemia

(increased facial redness due to more blood

flowing through the blood vessels).

dermatologists said that a response to 'inert'

vaseline or petrolatum is impossible. Well,

we had a little show and tell. "

When there is a chronic inflammatory response is the key phrase; with

inflammation the protective barrier is not intact and so reactions

from inert substances is now possible. He says later in the post that

when his face improved, he was able to tolerate petrolatum products

again. So I think that's the explanation for petroleum sensitivity in

rosacea patients, or anyone with an impaired protective barrier. I

wouldn't think it has anything to do with damage in the blood vessels.

I should have been clearer. What I was questioning, and what I

suspect the dermatologists Dr. Nase is quoting, is a petrolatum

reaction in healthy skin. ANYTHING can cause a reaction in unhealthy

skin (because the barrier is impaired, so everything can get

through).

That's an important distinction -- the list of ingredients are those

that are irritating to healthy skin with intact barriers, so are all

the more likely to cause reactions when the barrier is compromised.

Even ingredients like petrolam that are not normally reactive become

so when the barrier is compromised, but a list of those ingredients

would include everything. Not very helpful for figuring out the most

likely culprit.

Marjorie

Marjorie Lazoff, MD

> > overall, this is great. I totally support your idea about posting

> > product ingredients, if that can be done legally, and I wonder if

> > posting common skin irritants and comedogentic ingredients would

fit

> > right in.

>

> Yes, I agree this would be a very helpful and useful guide in

deciphering

> ingredient lists!

>

>

>

> >> Here are a few generalities though:

> >>

> >> Botanical ingredients and fragrance oils seem to irritate many

> > sensitive

> >> skins. (quite often products billed as " for sensitive skin "

include

> > many

> >> plant extracts which ironically irritate senstive, esp. rosacea

> > skin)

> >>

> >> Petroleum products sometimes cause redness for rosaceans. (like

> > mineral oil)

> >>

> >> Chemical sunscreens irritate frequently. Go for the sunblocks

like

> > zinc

> >> oxide and titanium dioxide. (Though some find those ingredients

are

> >> bump-causing.)

> >>

> >> Heavily occlusive creams often increase irritation/inflammation

of

> > rosacea

> >> skin. (ie: very oily and/or too thick a layer.)

> >>

> >> The " ...cones " seem to be soothing: dimethicone, etc. but can be

> >> comedogenic.

> >>

> >> There is more I'm sure, but that's what comes to mind at the

> > moment....

> >>

> >> Here's a couple good websites to start researching ingredients:

> >>

> >> a's Choice - Cosmetic Dictionary

> >> http://www.cosmeticscop.com/dictionary/dict7.htm>

> >>

> >> Pharmaceutical Specialties

> >> http://www.psico.com/>

> >>

> >> Hope all this is helpful!

> >>

> >>