Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Sorry to reply to my own message, but the attached study I mentioned did not show up when the Email reached the group, so I'm going to try to copy and paste as best as I can, Unfortunately now the bar graphs won't show up this way. It really was kinda neat the way everything was shown. If you don't want to suffer through my crappy cut and paste job, you can see the full study (graphs and all) at the following sight: (Great it wont even turn into a link.. lol) I guess you'll have to type that into your browser manually. Also, it may take a minute to load, but I'd definitely recommend everyone check it out. http://www.bfsforum.net/cutanixdramaticrelief.doc Cutanix " Dramcutanix dramatic relief.docatic Relief " Lotion for Problem Skin Cutanix has finalized a proprietary lotion formulation containing 1% by weight of our active anti-inflammatory ingredient, CX-452, (trade name Quadrinone?). This product will be manufactured by Paramount Cosmetics, Clifton, NJ beginning the first week in June 2002. The product will be introduced at a dermatology conference on May 31, 2002 and marketing will commence immediately thereafter. A picture of the bottle design and graphics is shown below. Cutanix has been providing samples of this product for several months to individuals suffering from eczema and rosacea, and the anecdotal feedback from these volunteers has been extremely positive. The product was found to be effective in reducing the severity of the disease in all eczema volunteers and in most rosacea individuals. Because of this marked anecdotal success Cutanix commissioned a formal, IRB approved clinical study under the direction of Zoe Draelos, MD in High Point, NC to assess the efficacy of this proprietary " Dramatic Relief " lotion in treating patients with either eczema or rosacea. Eczema and cea Clinical Study In the clinical research study conducted by Dr. Draelos, 20 subjects with eczema and 20 with rosacea were treated with Cutanix " Dramatic Relief " lotion. During their first visit, patients were evaluated by Dr. Draelos using 4 measurements of disease: 1) erythema, 2) desquamation (peeling), 3) uneven skin tone, and 4) dermatitis. Dr. Draelos also provided an " Overall Severity " score which ranged from 1-6 with 6 being the most severe level of overall disease. Patients were photographed to record the severity of the disease. After evaluation patients were sent home with the Dramatic Relief lotion and told to apply it morning and evening for two weeks. They then returned to the clinic for a two-week evaluation and at that time received more product for an additional 2 weeks. At four weeks, both Dr. Draelos and the subjects evaluated the severity of their disease. Digital photographs of the treated areas were also taken. Of the 20 eczema patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 17 completed the four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who dropped out, experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the product. The bar graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this group at 4 weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of eczema decreased in 15/17 subjects (88%). Average improvement among those responding was 67%. This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from volunteers who used the product and is a statistically significant result. Of the 20 rosacea patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 18 completed the four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who dropped out, experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the product. The bar graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this group at 4 weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of rosacea decreased in 13/18 subjects (72%). Average improvement among those responding was 68%. This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from volunteers who used the product and is a statistically significant result. cea is a much more difficult disease to treat than eczema because of the severity of skin inflammation and vasodilation. We were, therefore, particularly pleased by these results. Considering that a 2% formulation of CX-452 has been shown to be more effective in blocking UV-induced erythema than the 1% formulation used in this clinical study, a higher strength version of " Dramatic Relief " may provide even greater efficacy in treating rosacea. Furthermore, Cutanix scientists have now identified several significantly more potent compounds related in structure to CX-452, and these may prove effective in treating the most difficult dermatological disease, psoriasis. www.cutanix.com Cutanix Dramatic Relief Lotion -Brand New Product for cea Shown to be Effective Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have attached a three page document talking about a study done with this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on Eczema or cea. Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about the product they are releasing: " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, even with this being said, this product looks to be about as promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Adam, who asked you to " show this " to the group? > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > Eczema or cea. > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > the product they are releasing: > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > Adam > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Adam, who asked you to " show this " to the group? > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > Eczema or cea. > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > the product they are releasing: > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > Adam > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Adam, who asked you to " show this " to the group? > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > Eczema or cea. > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > the product they are releasing: > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > Adam > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Hi Dr. Marjorie, I agree that we should be very careful with otc topicals. I did get excited about it because Zoe Draelos, MD, a somewhat prominent derm, was in charge of the test. I wanted to let you know that someone from the blushing and flushing list http://www.bfsforum.com/ tried this Cutanix. I don't know if you're aware of this group which includes everyone from chronic blushers, to rosaceans, to people with hyperhidrosis. The message I saw was at the Blushing and Flushing Forum, on page 4 - this may change as more messages are added, the topic is " Dramatic Relief Lotion " from Cutanix(CX 452) " , and the last reply was May 17, 2002 - this also may change. I sometimes read their messages to see if they have any new info that we on this list aren't aware of. Dr. Nase used to post to that group too. Take care, Matija > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but the attached study I > mentioned did not > > show up when the Email reached the group, so I'm going to try to > copy and > > paste as best as I can, Unfortunately now the bar graphs won't show > up this > > way. It really was kinda neat the way everything was shown. If > you don't > > want to suffer through my crappy cut and paste job, you can see the > full > > study (graphs and all) at the following sight: (Great it wont even > turn into > > a link.. lol) I guess you'll have to type that into your browser > manually. > > Also, it may take a minute to load, but I'd definitely recommend > everyone > > check it out. > > http://www.bfsforum.net/cutanixdramaticrelief.doc > > > > Cutanix " Dramcutanix dramatic relief.docatic Relief " Lotion for > Problem Skin > > > > Cutanix has finalized a proprietary lotion formulation containing > 1% by > > weight of our active anti-inflammatory ingredient, CX-452, (trade > name > > Quadrinone?). This product will be manufactured by Paramount > Cosmetics, > > Clifton, NJ beginning the first week in June 2002. The product will > be > > introduced at a dermatology conference on May 31, 2002 and > marketing will > > commence immediately thereafter. A picture of the bottle design and > graphics > > is shown below. > > Cutanix has been providing samples of this product for several > months to > > individuals suffering from eczema and rosacea, and the anecdotal > feedback > > from these volunteers has been extremely positive. The product was > found to > > be effective in reducing the severity of the disease in all eczema > > volunteers and in most rosacea individuals. Because of this marked > anecdotal > > success Cutanix commissioned a formal, IRB approved clinical study > under the > > direction of Zoe Draelos, MD in High Point, NC to assess the > efficacy > > of this proprietary " Dramatic Relief " lotion in treating patients > with > > either eczema or rosacea. > > > > Eczema and cea Clinical Study > > > > In the clinical research study conducted by Dr. Draelos, 20 > subjects with > > eczema and 20 with rosacea were treated with Cutanix " Dramatic > Relief " > > lotion. During their first visit, patients were evaluated by Dr. > Draelos > > using 4 measurements of disease: 1) erythema, 2) desquamation > (peeling), 3) > > uneven skin tone, and 4) dermatitis. Dr. Draelos also provided > an " Overall > > Severity " score which ranged from 1-6 with 6 being the most severe > level of > > overall disease. Patients were photographed to record the severity > of the > > disease. After evaluation patients were sent home with the Dramatic > Relief > > lotion and told to apply it morning and evening for two weeks. They > then > > returned to the clinic for a two-week evaluation and at that time > received > > more product for an additional 2 weeks. At four weeks, both Dr. > Draelos and > > the subjects evaluated the severity of their disease. Digital > photographs of > > the treated areas were also taken. > > > > Of the 20 eczema patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 17 > completed the > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who dropped > out, > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > product. The bar > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this > group at 4 > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of eczema > decreased in > > 15/17 subjects (88%). Average improvement among those responding > was 67%. > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > volunteers who > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > Of the 20 rosacea patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 18 > completed the > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who dropped > out, > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > product. The bar > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this > group at 4 > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of rosacea > decreased in > > 13/18 subjects (72%). Average improvement among those responding > was 68%. > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > volunteers who > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > cea is a much more difficult disease to treat than eczema > because of the > > severity of skin inflammation and vasodilation. We were, therefore, > > particularly pleased by these results. Considering that a 2% > formulation of > > CX-452 has been shown to be more effective in blocking UV-induced > erythema > > than the 1% formulation used in this clinical study, a higher > strength > > version of " Dramatic Relief " may provide even greater efficacy in > treating > > rosacea. Furthermore, Cutanix scientists have now identified several > > significantly more potent compounds related in structure to CX- 452, > and > > these may prove effective in treating the most difficult > dermatological > > disease, psoriasis. > > > > > > www.cutanix.com > > > > Cutanix Dramatic Relief Lotion -Brand New > Product for > > cea Shown to be Effective > > > > > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > Eczema or cea. > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > the product they are releasing: > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 With all due respect, I'm not sure it matters who asked. I'm always glad to see new info on this site, even if nobody specifically requested it. I admire and appreciate Adam's efforts to dig up and bring forward information that hasn't before appeared on this site. I wish I had the time to do so myself. He often posts studies and you are often quick to dismiss the studies as being preliminary or unscientific, which is also valuable information. However, that doesn't mean the matter isn't worth further research or that it offers no promise. I'm only saying this because I don't want to discourage those who are inclined to look for new information from posting it just because it may not be weighty enough. If there are no inquiring minds, there will never be a cure or even more effective treatments. Keep it up, Adam! And Dr. Lazoff, keep letting us know what you think as well. > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > Eczema or cea. > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > the product they are releasing: > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 With all due respect, I'm not sure it matters who asked. I'm always glad to see new info on this site, even if nobody specifically requested it. I admire and appreciate Adam's efforts to dig up and bring forward information that hasn't before appeared on this site. I wish I had the time to do so myself. He often posts studies and you are often quick to dismiss the studies as being preliminary or unscientific, which is also valuable information. However, that doesn't mean the matter isn't worth further research or that it offers no promise. I'm only saying this because I don't want to discourage those who are inclined to look for new information from posting it just because it may not be weighty enough. If there are no inquiring minds, there will never be a cure or even more effective treatments. Keep it up, Adam! And Dr. Lazoff, keep letting us know what you think as well. > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > Eczema or cea. > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > the product they are releasing: > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I don't know anything about her, Matija, but that one study was not well-presented, to say the least. Since Dr. Draelos has access to Wake Forest U facilities where she's affiliated, why wouldn't she have it tested properly rather than within her practice and in such a biased format, as it sounds like it was? Usually that's because the company puts restraints on studies like this, to insure the best possible outcome, and they pay a lot to get physicians to cooperate. But there may well be something I'm missing. It's dangerous to judge a book by its cover. Do we know any of the ingredients in this Dramatic Relief Lotion? Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but the attached study I > > mentioned did not > > > show up when the Email reached the group, so I'm going to try to > > copy and > > > paste as best as I can, Unfortunately now the bar graphs won't > show > > up this > > > way. It really was kinda neat the way everything was shown. If > > you don't > > > want to suffer through my crappy cut and paste job, you can see > the > > full > > > study (graphs and all) at the following sight: (Great it wont > even > > turn into > > > a link.. lol) I guess you'll have to type that into your browser > > manually. > > > Also, it may take a minute to load, but I'd definitely recommend > > everyone > > > check it out. > > > http://www.bfsforum.net/cutanixdramaticrelief.doc > > > > > > Cutanix " Dramcutanix dramatic relief.docatic Relief " Lotion for > > Problem Skin > > > > > > Cutanix has finalized a proprietary lotion formulation containing > > 1% by > > > weight of our active anti-inflammatory ingredient, CX-452, (trade > > name > > > Quadrinone?). This product will be manufactured by Paramount > > Cosmetics, > > > Clifton, NJ beginning the first week in June 2002. The product > will > > be > > > introduced at a dermatology conference on May 31, 2002 and > > marketing will > > > commence immediately thereafter. A picture of the bottle design > and > > graphics > > > is shown below. > > > Cutanix has been providing samples of this product for several > > months to > > > individuals suffering from eczema and rosacea, and the anecdotal > > feedback > > > from these volunteers has been extremely positive. The product > was > > found to > > > be effective in reducing the severity of the disease in all eczema > > > volunteers and in most rosacea individuals. Because of this > marked > > anecdotal > > > success Cutanix commissioned a formal, IRB approved clinical > study > > under the > > > direction of Zoe Draelos, MD in High Point, NC to assess > the > > efficacy > > > of this proprietary " Dramatic Relief " lotion in treating patients > > with > > > either eczema or rosacea. > > > > > > Eczema and cea Clinical Study > > > > > > In the clinical research study conducted by Dr. Draelos, 20 > > subjects with > > > eczema and 20 with rosacea were treated with Cutanix " Dramatic > > Relief " > > > lotion. During their first visit, patients were evaluated by Dr. > > Draelos > > > using 4 measurements of disease: 1) erythema, 2) desquamation > > (peeling), 3) > > > uneven skin tone, and 4) dermatitis. Dr. Draelos also provided > > an " Overall > > > Severity " score which ranged from 1-6 with 6 being the most > severe > > level of > > > overall disease. Patients were photographed to record the > severity > > of the > > > disease. After evaluation patients were sent home with the > Dramatic > > Relief > > > lotion and told to apply it morning and evening for two weeks. > They > > then > > > returned to the clinic for a two-week evaluation and at that time > > received > > > more product for an additional 2 weeks. At four weeks, both Dr. > > Draelos and > > > the subjects evaluated the severity of their disease. Digital > > photographs of > > > the treated areas were also taken. > > > > > > Of the 20 eczema patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 17 > > completed the > > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who > dropped > > out, > > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > > product. The bar > > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this > > group at 4 > > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of eczema > > decreased in > > > 15/17 subjects (88%). Average improvement among those responding > > was 67%. > > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > > volunteers who > > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > > > Of the 20 rosacea patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 18 > > completed the > > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who > dropped > > out, > > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > > product. The bar > > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for this > > group at 4 > > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of rosacea > > decreased in > > > 13/18 subjects (72%). Average improvement among those responding > > was 68%. > > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > > volunteers who > > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > > > cea is a much more difficult disease to treat than eczema > > because of the > > > severity of skin inflammation and vasodilation. We were, > therefore, > > > particularly pleased by these results. Considering that a 2% > > formulation of > > > CX-452 has been shown to be more effective in blocking UV- induced > > erythema > > > than the 1% formulation used in this clinical study, a higher > > strength > > > version of " Dramatic Relief " may provide even greater efficacy in > > treating > > > rosacea. Furthermore, Cutanix scientists have now identified > several > > > significantly more potent compounds related in structure to CX- > 452, > > and > > > these may prove effective in treating the most difficult > > dermatological > > > disease, psoriasis. > > > > > > > > > www.cutanix.com > > > > > > Cutanix Dramatic Relief Lotion -Brand New > > Product for > > > cea Shown to be Effective > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > > > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > > Eczema or cea. > > > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > > the product they are releasing: > > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I wish I knew the ingredients myself. It's supposed to be available sometime next month, so when it is I'll try to see if I can get an ingredient listing. Perhaps Adam's friend may have a listing? It's too bad the testing wasn't more stringent. Is a good test a double-blind one? They did measure the decrease in redness for the testers though. Is that good or should they have done something else? I remember when people were excited about the Strontium lotion from cea Care. It didn't seem to live up to its promises unfortunately. I hope the same doesn't happen with this lotion. Take care, Matija > > > > Sorry to reply to my own message, but the attached study I > > > mentioned did not > > > > show up when the Email reached the group, so I'm going to try > to > > > copy and > > > > paste as best as I can, Unfortunately now the bar graphs won't > > show > > > up this > > > > way. It really was kinda neat the way everything was shown. > If > > > you don't > > > > want to suffer through my crappy cut and paste job, you can see > > the > > > full > > > > study (graphs and all) at the following sight: (Great it wont > > even > > > turn into > > > > a link.. lol) I guess you'll have to type that into your > browser > > > manually. > > > > Also, it may take a minute to load, but I'd definitely > recommend > > > everyone > > > > check it out. > > > > http://www.bfsforum.net/cutanixdramaticrelief.doc > > > > > > > > Cutanix " Dramcutanix dramatic relief.docatic Relief " Lotion for > > > Problem Skin > > > > > > > > Cutanix has finalized a proprietary lotion formulation > containing > > > 1% by > > > > weight of our active anti-inflammatory ingredient, CX-452, > (trade > > > name > > > > Quadrinone?). This product will be manufactured by Paramount > > > Cosmetics, > > > > Clifton, NJ beginning the first week in June 2002. The product > > will > > > be > > > > introduced at a dermatology conference on May 31, 2002 and > > > marketing will > > > > commence immediately thereafter. A picture of the bottle design > > and > > > graphics > > > > is shown below. > > > > Cutanix has been providing samples of this product for several > > > months to > > > > individuals suffering from eczema and rosacea, and the > anecdotal > > > feedback > > > > from these volunteers has been extremely positive. The product > > was > > > found to > > > > be effective in reducing the severity of the disease in all > eczema > > > > volunteers and in most rosacea individuals. Because of this > > marked > > > anecdotal > > > > success Cutanix commissioned a formal, IRB approved clinical > > study > > > under the > > > > direction of Zoe Draelos, MD in High Point, NC to assess > > the > > > efficacy > > > > of this proprietary " Dramatic Relief " lotion in treating > patients > > > with > > > > either eczema or rosacea. > > > > > > > > Eczema and cea Clinical Study > > > > > > > > In the clinical research study conducted by Dr. Draelos, 20 > > > subjects with > > > > eczema and 20 with rosacea were treated with Cutanix " Dramatic > > > Relief " > > > > lotion. During their first visit, patients were evaluated by > Dr. > > > Draelos > > > > using 4 measurements of disease: 1) erythema, 2) desquamation > > > (peeling), 3) > > > > uneven skin tone, and 4) dermatitis. Dr. Draelos also provided > > > an " Overall > > > > Severity " score which ranged from 1-6 with 6 being the most > > severe > > > level of > > > > overall disease. Patients were photographed to record the > > severity > > > of the > > > > disease. After evaluation patients were sent home with the > > Dramatic > > > Relief > > > > lotion and told to apply it morning and evening for two weeks. > > They > > > then > > > > returned to the clinic for a two-week evaluation and at that > time > > > received > > > > more product for an additional 2 weeks. At four weeks, both Dr. > > > Draelos and > > > > the subjects evaluated the severity of their disease. Digital > > > photographs of > > > > the treated areas were also taken. > > > > > > > > Of the 20 eczema patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 17 > > > completed the > > > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who > > dropped > > > out, > > > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > > > product. The bar > > > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for > this > > > group at 4 > > > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of eczema > > > decreased in > > > > 15/17 subjects (88%). Average improvement among those > responding > > > was 67%. > > > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > > > volunteers who > > > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > > > > > Of the 20 rosacea patients treated with Dramatic Relief, 18 > > > completed the > > > > four-week period. None of the subjects, including those who > > dropped > > > out, > > > > experienced any irritation or other adverse effect from the > > > product. The bar > > > > graph below summarizes the changes in " Overall Severity " for > this > > > group at 4 > > > > weeks. As can be seen in the chart, the severity of rosacea > > > decreased in > > > > 13/18 subjects (72%). Average improvement among those > responding > > > was 68%. > > > > This agrees with the anecdotal data Cutanix had acquired from > > > volunteers who > > > > used the product and is a statistically significant result. > > > > > > > > cea is a much more difficult disease to treat than eczema > > > because of the > > > > severity of skin inflammation and vasodilation. We were, > > therefore, > > > > particularly pleased by these results. Considering that a 2% > > > formulation of > > > > CX-452 has been shown to be more effective in blocking UV- > induced > > > erythema > > > > than the 1% formulation used in this clinical study, a higher > > > strength > > > > version of " Dramatic Relief " may provide even greater efficacy > in > > > treating > > > > rosacea. Furthermore, Cutanix scientists have now identified > > several > > > > significantly more potent compounds related in structure to CX- > > 452, > > > and > > > > these may prove effective in treating the most difficult > > > dermatological > > > > disease, psoriasis. > > > > > > > > > > > > www.cutanix.com > > > > > > > > Cutanix Dramatic Relief Lotion -Brand New > > > Product for > > > > cea Shown to be Effective > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, > it > > > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50- 58%. > > > > I've been following this company for a few months now. > Originally > > > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > > > Eczema or cea. > > > > > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty > weak > > > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > > > the product they are releasing: > > > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds > affect > > > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the > product, > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a > try, > > > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I don't mean to beat a dead horse here or anything but I wish you could explain what was so wrong with this study.. They use a 1-6 scale to compare pre-discussed symptoms both before and after (as well as using digital photos to monitor progression) As near as I can tell, if anything the graph understates the positive results (the graph goes up to 120 rather than 100, making the bars illustrating success look smaller) and used the Mann-Whitney test (Which I happen to know from the Psych Stat class I just finished on Monday is a very reliable Statistical test) to show the study's statistical significance at .05. However with the results they found, I am quite confident it would have shown significance even at a level of .01. As near as I can tell this is the first of hopefully a series of studies on this product. I believe at first the test was just to see if the product worked on cea at all.. not to study exactly how well it worked.. (hence testing for statistical significance rather than against a placebo) Originally I think this treatment was mainly designed for Seb Derm.. the idea that it might be useful for cea came later. I can tell you this though.. No placebo-testing is ever going to show an average improvement of 66% in the treatment of cea.. I'm not saying this will definitely be the best treatment for cea ever or anything.. (I've never even tried the product, how could I know?) But if you could explain why you feel the graph is misleading, and what you mean when you say " no standard scale used to assess features " that would at least help me understand your concerns, and perhaps I could ask Rory for a little classification. As far as the ingredient list, not sure yet. Thats my main concern.. is that there will be something in it that is irritating. So far I believe the only known ingredient is CX-452 which was discussed in my earlier post. I don't believe the company has put out any information yet about the base it has been formulated into. Adam Cutanix Dramatic Relief Lotion -Brand New > > Product for > > > cea Shown to be Effective > > > > > > > > > Hey guys, I've been asked to show this to the group. Cutanix is > > > a small biotech-type company that is coming out with a new > > > product for cea. I'm not sure how well this product will > > > work, but it looks kinda promising. With this Email I have > > > attached a three page document talking about a study done with > > > this product on 20 cea sufferers. It only worked for > > > something like 72% of the people, but for those it worked for, it > > > reduced erythema by 67%, whereas the leading prescription drug > > > (Metrogel) decreased cea severity on average between 50-58%. > > > I've been following this company for a few months now. Originally > > > this product was supposed to be used to treat Seborrheic > > > Dermatitis. Although its role in Seb Derm is not mentioned in > > > this study, from what I hear, it does work really good on > > > Seborrheic Dermatitis, perhaps even better than it works on > > > Eczema or cea. > > > > > > Their website is quite pathetic, but I guess they plan on > > > updating it soon before releasing this new product. The product > > > will be coming to market the first or second week in June, so, > > > their website should be updated by then. Because its pretty weak > > > at the moment, I'm not sure, but I believe this excerp is about > > > the product they are releasing: > > > " Cutanix has identified compounds from a new class of small > > > molecules that we believe could be effective in treating one or > > > more inflammatory skin diseases, such as irritant dermatitis, > > > allergic contact dermatitis, seborrheic dermatitis, atopic > > > dermatitis and psoriasis. These compounds have the ability to > > > block at multiple points the inflammatory cascade central to all > > > such diseases. They do this by attenuating one of the two key > > > signal transduction pathways within cells involved in cells' > > > inflammatory response. This pathway contains the p38 MAP kinease > > > and the AP-1 transcription factor. The other key pathway, which > > > contains the NF-kß transcription factor, does not seem to be > > > affected by these compounds. The fact that these compounds affect > > > only a portion of a cell's inflammatory response mechanism may > > > explain why they do not have side effects like corticosteroids > > > and other immunosuppressive drugs. Enough inflammatory genes are > > > dependent on the p38/AP-1 pathway, however, that inflammation in > > > tissue cannot be sustained if these genes are returned to normal > > > levels of expression. The inflammation winds down over several > > > days, much like a slow leak in a tire. " > > > > > > Since the study was conducted by the company selling the product, > > > I wouldn't be surprised if it was partially biased. > > > Unfortunately, even though I believe they were originally going > > > to attempt to seek FDA approval for this item, it has since been > > > classified as a cosmetic, and therefore not under the regulation > > > of the FDA or something like that.. Not entirely sure. Anyway, > > > even with this being said, this product looks to be about as > > > promising as anything out there, so, you may wanna give it a try, > > > especially if you have a combination of cea and Seb Derm. > > > > > > Sorry for makin' this so long! (I never can seem to say what I'm > > > trying to say without blathering on for ten pages) > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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