Guest guest Posted May 2, 2002 Report Share Posted May 2, 2002 Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics change flushing one way or the other. There may be a return of hypersensitivity or inflammation (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are withdrawn, but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. cea takes years, decades to progress, not days. Short term changes are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what you're describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. Be patient with yourself these days, as you're likely more attentive to your skin and getting used to your new diagnosis. You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make it worse. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > Has anyone ever studied Metrocream to make sure there's no re- bound > effect to using it? > > In case I have the wrong term, I'm talking about when you take a > medication, then it wears off, and your symptomes return WORSE than > before. I believe this happens with some nasal sprays used for the > stuffiness of a common cold, for example. > > The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if that's what happened to me. > I used the cream pretty much as directed (except only once a day, not > twice) for several days, and I did notice that when I got out the > shower my face wasn't flushed. Cool. Except, the flushing never > really bothered ME; it's my optometrist who wants me to use this > stuff. > > Anyway, one day I forget to use it, and next day when I take my > shower, I'm flushing alright--but worse than before I ever touched > the stuff! > > It seems unlikely to me and way too much of a coincidence that my > rosecea had progressed that much in such a short time, especially > since rather than ignoring it (which is supposed to make it progress) > I'd recently starting TREATING IT! > > I can't help thinking that a natural approach makes more sense for > someone like me who has very mild symptoms. When & if it begins to > bother me, THEN I could see the point in treating it. > > But at this point, might I be creating a dependence on a drug I don't > even really need? > > What are your thoughts on this? Has anyone else noticed this re- bound > effect also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2002 Report Share Posted May 3, 2002 > Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics change flushing one way or the > other. >>>> > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > that's strange because my derm, who's one of the head derms at a major hospital here (and is quite excellent i must say) says that antibiotics WILL help with flushing (But not in all patients). i wonder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2002 Report Share Posted May 3, 2002 I have to ask, is Metrocreme an antibiotic? Because that's the only thing I use, and I had no idea it was an antibiotic creme! I wonder if I could use bacitracin or neosporin instead? You said " You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make it worse. " Since I believe I was better off before I used the creme, that would make me wrong, not right, according to you. At this point, I simply don't see how putting products on my skin for no good reason could be considered " caring for it. " Of course, I could be wrong...That's what I'm trying to find out! As for being more attentive, I'd agree with you, (it occured to me too) except even my husband said the same thing. He'd never seen my face so flushed before. You wrote " There may be a return of hypersensitivity or inflammation (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are withdrawn, but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. " This was not the RETURN of my previous mild flushing, it was worse. Not horribly worse, but noticibly so. To both of us. But again, I freely acknowledge that we could both be wrong. That's what I'm trying to figure out here. Keep in mind that I am not bothered by my rosecea symptoms. It seems to me, therefore, that I am using drugs UNNECESSARILY. To make an analogy, people with mild hayfever don't run out and take antihystamines (sp?) when they can manage just fine without them. If at some point down the line their symptoms warrant it, then they seek treatment. I wasn't seeking treatment for my skin. I had an eye problem. Having me use the creme now for something that MIGHT get worse at some unknown future date seems like major paranoia to me. And in fact you seem to make my point for me when you write " cea takes years, decades to progress, not days. " And " Short term changes are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what you're describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. " In other words, I have extremely mild symptoms, so it seems I'm a long way off from needing to do ANYTHING. Perhaps there is no one here who can relate to that, because the rest of the people like me AREN'T being treated, and therefore wouldn't even be at a message board such as this one. One thing I wholeheartedly agree with: I am getting used to a new diagnosis. A couple of them, actually. Which is why I am asking questions, not just making rash (haha!) decisions. I know how fortunate I am to have the luxury of time to investigate further; for sure if I had some of the symptoms I've heard described here I'd be running to the drugstore for whatever they could give me! So far I haven't heard anything to suggest that a natural approach wouldn't be best FOR ME. I'm certainly not suggesting that those who need it don't seek treatment. Thanks for hearing me out, Jan > Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics change flushing one way or the > other. There may be a return of hypersensitivity or inflammation > (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are withdrawn, > but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. > > cea takes years, decades to progress, not days. Short term > changes are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what > you're describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. Be patient > with yourself these days, as you're likely more attentive to your > skin and getting used to your new diagnosis. > > You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make it worse. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > Has anyone ever studied Metrocream to make sure there's no re- > bound > > effect to using it? > > > > In case I have the wrong term, I'm talking about when you take a > > medication, then it wears off, and your symptomes return WORSE than > > before. I believe this happens with some nasal sprays used for the > > stuffiness of a common cold, for example. > > > > The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if that's what happened to > me. > > I used the cream pretty much as directed (except only once a day, > not > > twice) for several days, and I did notice that when I got out the > > shower my face wasn't flushed. Cool. Except, the flushing never > > really bothered ME; it's my optometrist who wants me to use this > > stuff. > > > > Anyway, one day I forget to use it, and next day when I take my > > shower, I'm flushing alright--but worse than before I ever touched > > the stuff! > > > > It seems unlikely to me and way too much of a coincidence that my > > rosecea had progressed that much in such a short time, especially > > since rather than ignoring it (which is supposed to make it > progress) > > I'd recently starting TREATING IT! > > > > I can't help thinking that a natural approach makes more sense for > > someone like me who has very mild symptoms. When & if it begins to > > bother me, THEN I could see the point in treating it. > > > > But at this point, might I be creating a dependence on a drug I > don't > > even really need? > > > > What are your thoughts on this? Has anyone else noticed this re- > bound > > effect also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2002 Report Share Posted May 3, 2002 Jan, I just misdirected a reply for iblanki that I addressed to you, so ignore that one. But this one's for you. I would second 's advice to seek medical care from a medical doctor. I would recommend a dermatologist. Your corneal specialist may be able to help with ocular rosacea should that ever become a problem, but an ophthalmologist should not be managing the skin manifestations of your rosacea, no matter how mild, and certainly not an optometrist, no matter how well s/he is self-educated. I suspect these doctors are giving you very sound advice: no matter how slowly rosacea progresses over one's lifetime, no matter how mild your present skin rosacea may be, your chronic corneal condition increases your risk for *serious* ocular complications *should* rosacea advance to your eyes. So even more than others, it is important for you to do what you can to forstall the progression of your rosacea. That may or may entail using topical antibiotics, none of us can know that. In my opinion, you should be discussing and planning out your care strategy with a dermatologist who will follow you over your lifetime, not strangers in cyberspace. Yes, Metrocream is a topical antibiotic. Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD > I have to ask, is Metrocreme an antibiotic? Because that's the only > thing I use, and I had no idea it was an antibiotic creme! I wonder > if I could use bacitracin or neosporin instead? > > You said " You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make it > worse. " Since I believe I was better off before I used the creme, > that would make me wrong, not right, according to you. > > At this point, I simply don't see how putting products on my skin for > no good reason could be considered " caring for it. " Of course, I > could be wrong...That's what I'm trying to find out! > > As for being more attentive, I'd agree with you, (it occured to me > too) except even my husband said the same thing. He'd never seen my > face so flushed before. > > You wrote " There may be a return of hypersensitivity or inflammation > (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are withdrawn, > but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. " This was not the > RETURN of my previous mild flushing, it was worse. Not horribly > worse, but noticibly so. To both of us. > > But again, I freely acknowledge that we could both be wrong. That's > what I'm trying to figure out here. > > Keep in mind that I am not bothered by my rosecea symptoms. It seems > to me, therefore, that I am using drugs UNNECESSARILY. To make an > analogy, people with mild hayfever don't run out and take > antihystamines (sp?) when they can manage just fine without them. If > at some point down the line their symptoms warrant it, then they seek > treatment. > > I wasn't seeking treatment for my skin. I had an eye problem. > Having me use the creme now for something that MIGHT get worse at > some unknown future date seems like major paranoia to me. > > And in fact you seem to make my point for me when you write " cea > takes years, decades to progress, not days. " And " Short term changes > are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what you're > describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. " > > In other words, I have extremely mild symptoms, so it seems I'm a > long way off from needing to do ANYTHING. Perhaps there is no one > here who can relate to that, because the rest of the people like me > AREN'T being treated, and therefore wouldn't even be at a message > board such as this one. > > One thing I wholeheartedly agree with: I am getting used to a new > diagnosis. A couple of them, actually. Which is why I am asking > questions, not just making rash (haha!) decisions. I know how > fortunate I am to have the luxury of time to investigate further; for > sure if I had some of the symptoms I've heard described here I'd be > running to the drugstore for whatever they could give me! > > So far I haven't heard anything to suggest that a natural approach > wouldn't be best FOR ME. I'm certainly not suggesting that those who > need it don't seek treatment. > > Thanks for hearing me out, > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 Via no known mechanism except many a general anit-inflammatory mechanism, while on minocycline 100 mg bid, I note less episodes of rosacea pattern flushing. though, I do note much less flushing from Accutane 5/mg compared to minocycline. of course, ultimate results are achieved with a combination of the above. > > > Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics change flushing one way or > the > > > other. >>>> > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > > > > that's strange because my derm, who's one of the head derms at a > > major hospital here (and is quite excellent i must say) says that > > antibiotics WILL help with flushing (But not in all patients). i > > wonder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 " In my opinion, you should be discussing and > planning out your care strategy with a dermatologist who will follow > you over your lifetime, not strangers in cyberspace. " What's the point of this group if not to discuss rosecea? LOL! I'm interested in people's personal or first-hand knowledge and experiences, and explainations of the more complicated medical stuff in words that I can actually understand! And for the most part that's exactly what I've gotten! Where's the harm in that? People here have said things that backed the docs up and things that backed me up. Through that kind of back & forth discussion I can clarify in my mind what's important and relevant to me. Also, I've received support and encouragement that doctors can't provide. I think like most people I'm extremely reluctant to go against my doctor's wishes. In fact I won't do it unless I'm very sure I know the consequences of my decision and I'm willing to accept them. I just think that I'll be a lot more prepared for a meaningful discussion with the doctor once I've sorted-out my own thoughts. I'm very grateful there are places like this that can help! BTW, I have seen a medical doctor about my face, not for rosecea but because I'd started to get what I think are called " liver spots " and I wanted to know what's considered normal aging and what isn't. So I wouldn't ignore something potentially cancerous. The medical doctor told me, " Well, you have a little redness around your nose (I was probably a bit flushed at the time and didn't know it), and she told me she could refer me to the dermatologist for something to put on that, but she stated quite clearly that it would be for COSMETIC REASONS ONLY. I wasn't interested in that, and anyway my insurance would never cover it...they cover MEDICALLY NECESSARY visits only. I'll have to call my prescription plan to see if prescribed medications have to be medically necessary as well. That should be interesting. Meanwhile, can anyone tell me if there's any reliable evidence that shows that treating rosecea at any stage will slow it's progression...and how would they be able to determine something like that? Thanks again for all your input! ~Jan > > I have to ask, is Metrocreme an antibiotic? Because that's the only > > thing I use, and I had no idea it was an antibiotic creme! I wonder > > if I could use bacitracin or neosporin instead? > > > > You said " You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make > it > > worse. " Since I believe I was better off before I used the creme, > > that would make me wrong, not right, according to you. > > > > At this point, I simply don't see how putting products on my skin > for > > no good reason could be considered " caring for it. " Of course, I > > could be wrong...That's what I'm trying to find out! > > > > As for being more attentive, I'd agree with you, (it occured to me > > too) except even my husband said the same thing. He'd never seen my > > face so flushed before. > > > > You wrote " There may be a return of hypersensitivity or > inflammation > > (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are > withdrawn, > > but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. " This was not the > > RETURN of my previous mild flushing, it was worse. Not horribly > > worse, but noticibly so. To both of us. > > > > But again, I freely acknowledge that we could both be wrong. That's > > what I'm trying to figure out here. > > > > Keep in mind that I am not bothered by my rosecea symptoms. It > seems > > to me, therefore, that I am using drugs UNNECESSARILY. To make an > > analogy, people with mild hayfever don't run out and take > > antihystamines (sp?) when they can manage just fine without them. > If > > at some point down the line their symptoms warrant it, then they > seek > > treatment. > > > > I wasn't seeking treatment for my skin. I had an eye problem. > > Having me use the creme now for something that MIGHT get worse at > > some unknown future date seems like major paranoia to me. > > > > And in fact you seem to make my point for me when you > write " cea > > takes years, decades to progress, not days. " And " Short term > changes > > are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what you're > > describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. " > > > > In other words, I have extremely mild symptoms, so it seems I'm a > > long way off from needing to do ANYTHING. Perhaps there is no one > > here who can relate to that, because the rest of the people like me > > AREN'T being treated, and therefore wouldn't even be at a message > > board such as this one. > > > > One thing I wholeheartedly agree with: I am getting used to a new > > diagnosis. A couple of them, actually. Which is why I am asking > > questions, not just making rash (haha!) decisions. I know how > > fortunate I am to have the luxury of time to investigate further; > for > > sure if I had some of the symptoms I've heard described here I'd be > > running to the drugstore for whatever they could give me! > > > > So far I haven't heard anything to suggest that a natural approach > > wouldn't be best FOR ME. I'm certainly not suggesting that those > who > > need it don't seek treatment. > > > > Thanks for hearing me out, > > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 " In my opinion, you should be discussing and > planning out your care strategy with a dermatologist who will follow > you over your lifetime, not strangers in cyberspace. " What's the point of this group if not to discuss rosecea? LOL! I'm interested in people's personal or first-hand knowledge and experiences, and explainations of the more complicated medical stuff in words that I can actually understand! And for the most part that's exactly what I've gotten! Where's the harm in that? People here have said things that backed the docs up and things that backed me up. Through that kind of back & forth discussion I can clarify in my mind what's important and relevant to me. Also, I've received support and encouragement that doctors can't provide. I think like most people I'm extremely reluctant to go against my doctor's wishes. In fact I won't do it unless I'm very sure I know the consequences of my decision and I'm willing to accept them. I just think that I'll be a lot more prepared for a meaningful discussion with the doctor once I've sorted-out my own thoughts. I'm very grateful there are places like this that can help! BTW, I have seen a medical doctor about my face, not for rosecea but because I'd started to get what I think are called " liver spots " and I wanted to know what's considered normal aging and what isn't. So I wouldn't ignore something potentially cancerous. The medical doctor told me, " Well, you have a little redness around your nose (I was probably a bit flushed at the time and didn't know it), and she told me she could refer me to the dermatologist for something to put on that, but she stated quite clearly that it would be for COSMETIC REASONS ONLY. I wasn't interested in that, and anyway my insurance would never cover it...they cover MEDICALLY NECESSARY visits only. I'll have to call my prescription plan to see if prescribed medications have to be medically necessary as well. That should be interesting. Meanwhile, can anyone tell me if there's any reliable evidence that shows that treating rosecea at any stage will slow it's progression...and how would they be able to determine something like that? Thanks again for all your input! ~Jan > > I have to ask, is Metrocreme an antibiotic? Because that's the only > > thing I use, and I had no idea it was an antibiotic creme! I wonder > > if I could use bacitracin or neosporin instead? > > > > You said " You're right, caring for your skin is not going to make > it > > worse. " Since I believe I was better off before I used the creme, > > that would make me wrong, not right, according to you. > > > > At this point, I simply don't see how putting products on my skin > for > > no good reason could be considered " caring for it. " Of course, I > > could be wrong...That's what I'm trying to find out! > > > > As for being more attentive, I'd agree with you, (it occured to me > > too) except even my husband said the same thing. He'd never seen my > > face so flushed before. > > > > You wrote " There may be a return of hypersensitivity or > inflammation > > (including redness from inflammation) when antibiotics are > withdrawn, > > but that's the loss of anti-inflammatory action. " This was not the > > RETURN of my previous mild flushing, it was worse. Not horribly > > worse, but noticibly so. To both of us. > > > > But again, I freely acknowledge that we could both be wrong. That's > > what I'm trying to figure out here. > > > > Keep in mind that I am not bothered by my rosecea symptoms. It > seems > > to me, therefore, that I am using drugs UNNECESSARILY. To make an > > analogy, people with mild hayfever don't run out and take > > antihystamines (sp?) when they can manage just fine without them. > If > > at some point down the line their symptoms warrant it, then they > seek > > treatment. > > > > I wasn't seeking treatment for my skin. I had an eye problem. > > Having me use the creme now for something that MIGHT get worse at > > some unknown future date seems like major paranoia to me. > > > > And in fact you seem to make my point for me when you > write " cea > > takes years, decades to progress, not days. " And " Short term > changes > > are exacerbations and remission, not progression, but what you're > > describing doesn't even qualify as an exacerbation. " > > > > In other words, I have extremely mild symptoms, so it seems I'm a > > long way off from needing to do ANYTHING. Perhaps there is no one > > here who can relate to that, because the rest of the people like me > > AREN'T being treated, and therefore wouldn't even be at a message > > board such as this one. > > > > One thing I wholeheartedly agree with: I am getting used to a new > > diagnosis. A couple of them, actually. Which is why I am asking > > questions, not just making rash (haha!) decisions. I know how > > fortunate I am to have the luxury of time to investigate further; > for > > sure if I had some of the symptoms I've heard described here I'd be > > running to the drugstore for whatever they could give me! > > > > So far I haven't heard anything to suggest that a natural approach > > wouldn't be best FOR ME. I'm certainly not suggesting that those > who > > need it don't seek treatment. > > > > Thanks for hearing me out, > > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2002 Report Share Posted May 8, 2002 Don't these doctors know anything - Metrocream does NOT stop flushing. It MAY help with bumpy, red patches. Flushing can only be managed from the inside and even at that it's difficult. --- barefootjan barefootjan@...> wrote: > I want to thank " doubleoh7 " for the explaination Re: > what flushing > can lead to. I had no idea! > > Anyway, the verdict is in: My eye doc said that I do > NOT, I repeat, > do NOT, have to use the Metrocream. > > He said it was prescribed to stop the FLUSHING. > > He said, left untreated, rosecea can affect the > eyes, but he said the > most important thing I can do for my eyes at this > point, besides > using the Muro ointment, is to use the hot > compresses. > > I don't have use the Metrocream if I don't want to. > > Not that I'm happy about that or anything! ;-) > > If I ever start to think that it might be worthwhile > to put something > on my face, it's nice to know the cream (or > something like it) is > available. That I have options! > > Meanwhile, I think I'll continue looking into the > natural methods of > reducing or preventing symptoms. THAT I don't really > have a problem > with. > > Man I am one lucky son of a gun! > > Thanks to everyone who responded! And sorry it > takes so long for > me to grasp these things--I don't think I was ALWAYS > such a dim > bulb...can't remember for sure though.... > > > > > > > > > > Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics > change flushing one > way > > or > > > > the > > > > > > other. >>>> > > > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's strange because my derm, who's one > of the head derms > > at > > > a > > > > > major hospital here (and is quite excellent > i must say) says > > that > > > > > antibiotics WILL help with flushing (But not > in all > patients). > > i > > > > > wonder... > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to > the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). > Your post will be delayed if you don't give a > meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently > published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2002 Report Share Posted May 8, 2002 Don't these doctors know anything - Metrocream does NOT stop flushing. It MAY help with bumpy, red patches. Flushing can only be managed from the inside and even at that it's difficult. --- barefootjan barefootjan@...> wrote: > I want to thank " doubleoh7 " for the explaination Re: > what flushing > can lead to. I had no idea! > > Anyway, the verdict is in: My eye doc said that I do > NOT, I repeat, > do NOT, have to use the Metrocream. > > He said it was prescribed to stop the FLUSHING. > > He said, left untreated, rosecea can affect the > eyes, but he said the > most important thing I can do for my eyes at this > point, besides > using the Muro ointment, is to use the hot > compresses. > > I don't have use the Metrocream if I don't want to. > > Not that I'm happy about that or anything! ;-) > > If I ever start to think that it might be worthwhile > to put something > on my face, it's nice to know the cream (or > something like it) is > available. That I have options! > > Meanwhile, I think I'll continue looking into the > natural methods of > reducing or preventing symptoms. THAT I don't really > have a problem > with. > > Man I am one lucky son of a gun! > > Thanks to everyone who responded! And sorry it > takes so long for > me to grasp these things--I don't think I was ALWAYS > such a dim > bulb...can't remember for sure though.... > > > > > > > > > > Jan, I don't believe the antibiotics > change flushing one > way > > or > > > > the > > > > > > other. >>>> > > > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's strange because my derm, who's one > of the head derms > > at > > > a > > > > > major hospital here (and is quite excellent > i must say) says > > that > > > > > antibiotics WILL help with flushing (But not > in all > patients). > > i > > > > > wonder... > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to > the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). > Your post will be delayed if you don't give a > meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently > published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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