Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office about 15 years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff in the flask that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a really wide fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take the bottle home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had hot flashes. Re: Using ice on face > I agree, Eliza, ice on the face can be traumatic to the skin. The > basic rule of thumb (so to speak ) is that the temperature applied > to any injured part of the body should be as comfortable as if > applied to the fingertips (assuming normal sensation) for the same > amount of time. For example, if you're going to apply something cold > to the face for five minutes, you should be able to comfortably hold > it in your hand for the same length of time. When applied properly, > cool temperatures are as effective as cold, and far less traumatic. > > Spraying ice water on the face sounds refreshing, but remember that > water itself is a mild irritant to the face. Also, using water means > reapplying sunblock and/or moisturizer which means more facial > manipulation, when the goal is to keep as few things off the face as > possible. Finally, the goal is not just momentary cooling, but at > least 10 minutes of constant cooling. That's a lot of respraying. > > It's less convenient than a spray bottle in some situations, but > here's a possible alternative: in the ER, we use those refreezable > ammonium nitrate ice packs for acute inflammation or injury. They are > generally safe when applied directly to the skin on the insulated > side. New ammonium nitrate packs can be kept at room temperature > (they are activated by breaking the inner packet seal), then can be > reused after about 20 minutes in the refrig. > > Even if just a portion of the face is flushing, I would recommend a > large enough pack to cover, or other mechanism to cool, the entire > central portion of the face. The goal is to both decrease > neurosensory sensitivity but also divert blood flow away from the > entire central face (rather than redistribute it to the forehead or > chin). I would also recommend maintaining the cool temperature for 10- > 20 minutes, to give the outside temperature time to fully equilibrate > with the skin and lower structures. (If the pack feels too cold at > first, so try putting it in a pillow case, which can provide one or > three insulating layers of cotton.) After 10-20 minutes, remove the > pack or stop spraying or whatever is being used, and rest the face > for an equivalent 10-20 minutes, then decide if you need to reapply > for another 10-20 minutes. > > Has anyone tried prophylactic cooling (for example, 10 minutes with > an ammonium nitrate pack before exercising?) Theoretically, it makes > sense to divert blood flow away from the face beforehand, but I don't > know if it has practical benefits. > > Also, has anyone tried the personal cooling device that applies cool > aluminum plates against the sides of the neck. I've seen it sold by > Sharper Image > (http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml? > pid=26726800&pcatid=1&catid=112). I've not seen or tested one, but I > assume it cools the blood flowing up the external carotid arteries on > either side of the neck, which is destined for the face. I don't know > if it works, but it theoretically might help deter flushing if worn > when exercising, cooking, or when driving to an appointment or date > or something, or even as one feels one's face getting red. Once the > flush is in full force, I don't believe devices like this would help, > although they might shorten the course. I don't know. > > Not recommendations, just some thoughts. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > Several people on this board have discussed using icepacks for > > facial > > > burning. > > > > > > In Dr. Nase's book, he discourages " freezing " the face ... > > unfortunately I can't > > > find the page because there's no index in his book, but I > > distinctly recall Nase > > > using the term " freezing. " Is this the same as applying ice? What > > is the > > > current wisdom on this? > > > > > > BTW, is Dr. Nase still practicing? Does he respond to e-mails at > > his web site? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office about 15 years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff in the flask that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a really wide fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take the bottle home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had hot flashes. Re: Using ice on face > I agree, Eliza, ice on the face can be traumatic to the skin. The > basic rule of thumb (so to speak ) is that the temperature applied > to any injured part of the body should be as comfortable as if > applied to the fingertips (assuming normal sensation) for the same > amount of time. For example, if you're going to apply something cold > to the face for five minutes, you should be able to comfortably hold > it in your hand for the same length of time. When applied properly, > cool temperatures are as effective as cold, and far less traumatic. > > Spraying ice water on the face sounds refreshing, but remember that > water itself is a mild irritant to the face. Also, using water means > reapplying sunblock and/or moisturizer which means more facial > manipulation, when the goal is to keep as few things off the face as > possible. Finally, the goal is not just momentary cooling, but at > least 10 minutes of constant cooling. That's a lot of respraying. > > It's less convenient than a spray bottle in some situations, but > here's a possible alternative: in the ER, we use those refreezable > ammonium nitrate ice packs for acute inflammation or injury. They are > generally safe when applied directly to the skin on the insulated > side. New ammonium nitrate packs can be kept at room temperature > (they are activated by breaking the inner packet seal), then can be > reused after about 20 minutes in the refrig. > > Even if just a portion of the face is flushing, I would recommend a > large enough pack to cover, or other mechanism to cool, the entire > central portion of the face. The goal is to both decrease > neurosensory sensitivity but also divert blood flow away from the > entire central face (rather than redistribute it to the forehead or > chin). I would also recommend maintaining the cool temperature for 10- > 20 minutes, to give the outside temperature time to fully equilibrate > with the skin and lower structures. (If the pack feels too cold at > first, so try putting it in a pillow case, which can provide one or > three insulating layers of cotton.) After 10-20 minutes, remove the > pack or stop spraying or whatever is being used, and rest the face > for an equivalent 10-20 minutes, then decide if you need to reapply > for another 10-20 minutes. > > Has anyone tried prophylactic cooling (for example, 10 minutes with > an ammonium nitrate pack before exercising?) Theoretically, it makes > sense to divert blood flow away from the face beforehand, but I don't > know if it has practical benefits. > > Also, has anyone tried the personal cooling device that applies cool > aluminum plates against the sides of the neck. I've seen it sold by > Sharper Image > (http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml? > pid=26726800&pcatid=1&catid=112). I've not seen or tested one, but I > assume it cools the blood flowing up the external carotid arteries on > either side of the neck, which is destined for the face. I don't know > if it works, but it theoretically might help deter flushing if worn > when exercising, cooking, or when driving to an appointment or date > or something, or even as one feels one's face getting red. Once the > flush is in full force, I don't believe devices like this would help, > although they might shorten the course. I don't know. > > Not recommendations, just some thoughts. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > Several people on this board have discussed using icepacks for > > facial > > > burning. > > > > > > In Dr. Nase's book, he discourages " freezing " the face ... > > unfortunately I can't > > > find the page because there's no index in his book, but I > > distinctly recall Nase > > > using the term " freezing. " Is this the same as applying ice? What > > is the > > > current wisdom on this? > > > > > > BTW, is Dr. Nase still practicing? Does he respond to e-mails at > > his web site? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 Re: Using ice on face Spraying ice water on the face sounds refreshing, but remember that water itself is a mild irritant to the face. Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 Re: Using ice on face Spraying ice water on the face sounds refreshing, but remember that water itself is a mild irritant to the face. Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 Re: Using ice on face Spraying ice water on the face sounds refreshing, but remember that water itself is a mild irritant to the face. Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 << Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride.>> crying usually irritates the skin -- tear stained cheeks 'n all -- i would be surprised if saline on the skin instead of inside the body would feel good to anyone. if nothing else wouldn't that dehydrate the skin? love to hear if i'm wrong stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 It seems, for me at least, that if I cool the chest area and arms, then the face cools down the best. I noticed that trying to cool my nose (which is the flushing and swelling area for my rosacea) never really worked. But if I concentrated on getting the chest and arms cool, then my nose would cool down. Also, by drinking a very cold drink - like a slush - I bring down my body temperature, which in turn cooled down my nose. As a side note: when I was in the car and trying to cool my face by directing the air vents to it, I began to have a continual dry eye condition. Once I stopped doing that (and making sure the top of my computer screen was at eye level) the dry eye stopped. Re: Using ice on face > I spray ice water on my face and it really relieves the redness > and " burning " (although I experience a mild burning sensation, much > like when you open an oven and the warm heat touches your skin). I > don't think ice directly on the face is a good idea, since too much > of anything can cause irritation on a rosacea face, at least that is > my experience. I haven't read Dr. Nase's book, so I can't help you > on that department. > > Hope this helps! > > Eliza > > > > Several people on this board have discussed using icepacks for > facial > > burning. > > > > In Dr. Nase's book, he discourages " freezing " the face ... > unfortunately I can't > > find the page because there's no index in his book, but I > distinctly recall Nase > > using the term " freezing. " Is this the same as applying ice? What > is the > > current wisdom on this? > > > > BTW, is Dr. Nase still practicing? Does he respond to e-mails at > his web site? > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 It seems, for me at least, that if I cool the chest area and arms, then the face cools down the best. I noticed that trying to cool my nose (which is the flushing and swelling area for my rosacea) never really worked. But if I concentrated on getting the chest and arms cool, then my nose would cool down. Also, by drinking a very cold drink - like a slush - I bring down my body temperature, which in turn cooled down my nose. As a side note: when I was in the car and trying to cool my face by directing the air vents to it, I began to have a continual dry eye condition. Once I stopped doing that (and making sure the top of my computer screen was at eye level) the dry eye stopped. Re: Using ice on face > I spray ice water on my face and it really relieves the redness > and " burning " (although I experience a mild burning sensation, much > like when you open an oven and the warm heat touches your skin). I > don't think ice directly on the face is a good idea, since too much > of anything can cause irritation on a rosacea face, at least that is > my experience. I haven't read Dr. Nase's book, so I can't help you > on that department. > > Hope this helps! > > Eliza > > > > Several people on this board have discussed using icepacks for > facial > > burning. > > > > In Dr. Nase's book, he discourages " freezing " the face ... > unfortunately I can't > > find the page because there's no index in his book, but I > distinctly recall Nase > > using the term " freezing. " Is this the same as applying ice? What > is the > > current wisdom on this? > > > > BTW, is Dr. Nase still practicing? Does he respond to e-mails at > his web site? > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 It seems, for me at least, that if I cool the chest area and arms, then the face cools down the best. I noticed that trying to cool my nose (which is the flushing and swelling area for my rosacea) never really worked. But if I concentrated on getting the chest and arms cool, then my nose would cool down. Also, by drinking a very cold drink - like a slush - I bring down my body temperature, which in turn cooled down my nose. As a side note: when I was in the car and trying to cool my face by directing the air vents to it, I began to have a continual dry eye condition. Once I stopped doing that (and making sure the top of my computer screen was at eye level) the dry eye stopped. Re: Using ice on face > I spray ice water on my face and it really relieves the redness > and " burning " (although I experience a mild burning sensation, much > like when you open an oven and the warm heat touches your skin). I > don't think ice directly on the face is a good idea, since too much > of anything can cause irritation on a rosacea face, at least that is > my experience. I haven't read Dr. Nase's book, so I can't help you > on that department. > > Hope this helps! > > Eliza > > > > Several people on this board have discussed using icepacks for > facial > > burning. > > > > In Dr. Nase's book, he discourages " freezing " the face ... > unfortunately I can't > > find the page because there's no index in his book, but I > distinctly recall Nase > > using the term " freezing. " Is this the same as applying ice? What > is the > > current wisdom on this? > > > > BTW, is Dr. Nase still practicing? Does he respond to e-mails at > his web site? > > > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 << What about chlorine and other chemicals in tap water. Couldn't they irritate the already sensitive skin of rosaceans, too?>> both evian and vichy make a facial mist which is a very very light spray of some kind of pure blah blah blah water ... i've used it very soothing non irritating. any one else tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 << What about chlorine and other chemicals in tap water. Couldn't they irritate the already sensitive skin of rosaceans, too?>> both evian and vichy make a facial mist which is a very very light spray of some kind of pure blah blah blah water ... i've used it very soothing non irritating. any one else tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 << What about chlorine and other chemicals in tap water. Couldn't they irritate the already sensitive skin of rosaceans, too?>> both evian and vichy make a facial mist which is a very very light spray of some kind of pure blah blah blah water ... i've used it very soothing non irritating. any one else tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 It's been so long it's hard to recall - but I do remember it was in a " thermal " type packaging. Styrofoam around the stainless steel container as I recall. I just remember how cool it felt and I've never been able to replicate that feeling. Re: Using ice on face > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > about 15 > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff in > the flask > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > really wide > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > the bottle > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had hot > > flashes. > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which is > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in a > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use it > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 It's been so long it's hard to recall - but I do remember it was in a " thermal " type packaging. Styrofoam around the stainless steel container as I recall. I just remember how cool it felt and I've never been able to replicate that feeling. Re: Using ice on face > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > about 15 > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff in > the flask > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > really wide > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > the bottle > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had hot > > flashes. > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which is > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in a > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use it > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 It's been so long it's hard to recall - but I do remember it was in a " thermal " type packaging. Styrofoam around the stainless steel container as I recall. I just remember how cool it felt and I've never been able to replicate that feeling. Re: Using ice on face > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > about 15 > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff in > the flask > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > really wide > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > the bottle > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had hot > > flashes. > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which is > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in a > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use it > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 I bet your right! Re: Using ice on face > was it liquid Nitrogen? > > > > > > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > > about 15 > > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff > in > > the flask > > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > > really wide > > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > > the bottle > > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had > hot > > > flashes. > > > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > > > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which > is > > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in > a > > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use > it > > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > > > Marjorie > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 I bet your right! Re: Using ice on face > was it liquid Nitrogen? > > > > > > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > > about 15 > > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff > in > > the flask > > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > > really wide > > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > > the bottle > > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had > hot > > > flashes. > > > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > > > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which > is > > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in > a > > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use > it > > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > > > Marjorie > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 I bet your right! Re: Using ice on face > was it liquid Nitrogen? > > > > > > > > The most wonderful relief I've ever had was at the derms office > > about 15 > > > years ago. I had a " flush attack " and the nurse used the stuff > in > > the flask > > > that they " freeze " moles and such with. She set the nozzle on a > > really wide > > > fan and then just barely cracked the knob open. I tried to take > > the bottle > > > home but she wouldn't let me. She said she used it when she had > hot > > > flashes. > > > > , if it was silver nitrate, wouldn't your face cracked off? > > > > > Seriously, I suspect she used a type of local anesthetic spray > > that " freezes " the skin temporarily prior to needlestick. I don't > > know what it's called (I'm sure " that freezing stuff, " isn't its > > official name ). Its active ingredient is ethyl chloride, which > is > > extraordinarily flammable; by law, in the ER it has to be stored in > a > > special place. Its effects are shortlived -- once the skin is > > prepared, the needlestick needs to be given within 5 seconds. When > > working, it leaves a white substance that near-immediately > > dissipates; by the time the white is gone, so is the effect. I use > it > > only on normal epidermis below the neck since overuse can cause > > blistering and other burning-type skin reactions. I can't imagine > > what torture would result if it accidently got into the eyes. But > > normally the spray nozzle is very narrow, because the spray is > > directed at the anticipated needlestick point. > > > > Marjorie > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 Re: Using ice on face > Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's > isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be > less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might > be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. I don't know, but I wouldn't think the irritant nature of water is due to its hypotonicity. An intact epidermis is a physical barrier protecting the cells underneath; the skin cells on the top are dead, even if there's inflammation, so there are no exposed living cells that would require an isotonic environment (are there?) Normal saline is used for wound irrigation because it's isotonic, that's true, but that's because it is exposed directly to living cells. Something somewhat related that I've been thinking about: the skin surface has an acid mantle that helps maintain skin integrity and function. I wonder how many of our favorite cleansers and moisturizers respect that, by having an appropriately acidic pH. Or maybe the pH of a product isn't important? Or maybe chronically inflamed and/or flushed skin has different pH needs? Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD That's a good point Marjorie. Do you think the epidermis of inflamed/flushed skin is possibly not as good a barrier as it should be? We have the layer of dead cells, then skin lipids (usually quite water-repellant) then the stratum corneum, then the rest of the epidermis, and only then do we get to the living dermis. Is it possible that damaged skin in cea is more permeable, and allows the passage of not only water but other materials too? A lot of moisturising/cleansing products nowadays claim to be adjusted to " skin pH " - usually regarded as around 5.0 - 5.5 (I've seen other figures!). But maybe cea skin has a different " pH " , or as you say needs a different pH in the products used on it. Maybe water with a trace of mild acid, to bring the pH down to about 5, would be better? Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 Re: Using ice on face > Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's > isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be > less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might > be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. I don't know, but I wouldn't think the irritant nature of water is due to its hypotonicity. An intact epidermis is a physical barrier protecting the cells underneath; the skin cells on the top are dead, even if there's inflammation, so there are no exposed living cells that would require an isotonic environment (are there?) Normal saline is used for wound irrigation because it's isotonic, that's true, but that's because it is exposed directly to living cells. Something somewhat related that I've been thinking about: the skin surface has an acid mantle that helps maintain skin integrity and function. I wonder how many of our favorite cleansers and moisturizers respect that, by having an appropriately acidic pH. Or maybe the pH of a product isn't important? Or maybe chronically inflamed and/or flushed skin has different pH needs? Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD That's a good point Marjorie. Do you think the epidermis of inflamed/flushed skin is possibly not as good a barrier as it should be? We have the layer of dead cells, then skin lipids (usually quite water-repellant) then the stratum corneum, then the rest of the epidermis, and only then do we get to the living dermis. Is it possible that damaged skin in cea is more permeable, and allows the passage of not only water but other materials too? A lot of moisturising/cleansing products nowadays claim to be adjusted to " skin pH " - usually regarded as around 5.0 - 5.5 (I've seen other figures!). But maybe cea skin has a different " pH " , or as you say needs a different pH in the products used on it. Maybe water with a trace of mild acid, to bring the pH down to about 5, would be better? Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 Re: Using ice on face > Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the skin? It's > isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder if it might be > less stressful to the skin. On the other hand some ceans might > be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium chloride. I don't know, but I wouldn't think the irritant nature of water is due to its hypotonicity. An intact epidermis is a physical barrier protecting the cells underneath; the skin cells on the top are dead, even if there's inflammation, so there are no exposed living cells that would require an isotonic environment (are there?) Normal saline is used for wound irrigation because it's isotonic, that's true, but that's because it is exposed directly to living cells. Something somewhat related that I've been thinking about: the skin surface has an acid mantle that helps maintain skin integrity and function. I wonder how many of our favorite cleansers and moisturizers respect that, by having an appropriately acidic pH. Or maybe the pH of a product isn't important? Or maybe chronically inflamed and/or flushed skin has different pH needs? Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD That's a good point Marjorie. Do you think the epidermis of inflamed/flushed skin is possibly not as good a barrier as it should be? We have the layer of dead cells, then skin lipids (usually quite water-repellant) then the stratum corneum, then the rest of the epidermis, and only then do we get to the living dermis. Is it possible that damaged skin in cea is more permeable, and allows the passage of not only water but other materials too? A lot of moisturising/cleansing products nowadays claim to be adjusted to " skin pH " - usually regarded as around 5.0 - 5.5 (I've seen other figures!). But maybe cea skin has a different " pH " , or as you say needs a different pH in the products used on it. Maybe water with a trace of mild acid, to bring the pH down to about 5, would be better? Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hi - Doesn't Dr. Nase suggest toning the skin with cotton balls and purified water? What exactly is purified water anyway? Michele --- ruizdelvizo ruizdelvizo@...> wrote: > Marjorie, > > What about chlorine and other chemicals in tap > water. Couldn't they > irritate the already sensitive skin of rosaceans, > too? > > Take care, > Matija > > > > > > Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the > skin? It's > > > isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder > if it might be > > > less stressful to the skin. On the other hand > some ceans > might > > > be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium > chloride. > > > > I don't know, but I wouldn't think the irritant > nature of water is > > due to its hypotonicity. An intact epidermis is a > physical barrier > > protecting the cells underneath; the skin cells on > the top are > dead, > > even if there's inflammation, so there are no > exposed living cells > > that would require an isotonic environment (are > there?) Normal > saline > > is used for wound irrigation because it's > isotonic, that's true, > but > > that's because it is exposed directly to living > cells. > > > > Something somewhat related that I've been thinking > about: the skin > > surface has an acid mantle that helps maintain > skin integrity and > > function. I wonder how many of our favorite > cleansers and > > moisturizers respect that, by having an > appropriately acidic pH. Or > > maybe the pH of a product isn't important? Or > maybe chronically > > inflamed and/or flushed skin has different pH > needs? > > > > Marjorie > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to > the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). > Your post will be delayed if you don't give a > meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently > published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hi - Doesn't Dr. Nase suggest toning the skin with cotton balls and purified water? What exactly is purified water anyway? Michele --- ruizdelvizo ruizdelvizo@...> wrote: > Marjorie, > > What about chlorine and other chemicals in tap > water. Couldn't they > irritate the already sensitive skin of rosaceans, > too? > > Take care, > Matija > > > > > > Has anyone tried applying " normal saline " to the > skin? It's > > > isotonic with blood and body fluids, so I wonder > if it might be > > > less stressful to the skin. On the other hand > some ceans > might > > > be sensitive to the salt present - 0.9% sodium > chloride. > > > > I don't know, but I wouldn't think the irritant > nature of water is > > due to its hypotonicity. An intact epidermis is a > physical barrier > > protecting the cells underneath; the skin cells on > the top are > dead, > > even if there's inflammation, so there are no > exposed living cells > > that would require an isotonic environment (are > there?) Normal > saline > > is used for wound irrigation because it's > isotonic, that's true, > but > > that's because it is exposed directly to living > cells. > > > > Something somewhat related that I've been thinking > about: the skin > > surface has an acid mantle that helps maintain > skin integrity and > > function. I wonder how many of our favorite > cleansers and > > moisturizers respect that, by having an > appropriately acidic pH. Or > > maybe the pH of a product isn't important? Or > maybe chronically > > inflamed and/or flushed skin has different pH > needs? > > > > Marjorie > > > > Marjorie Lazoff, MD > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to > the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). > Your post will be delayed if you don't give a > meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must > change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently > published book. > > To leave the list send an email to > rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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