Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Flor, What is the new type of pathogenic bacteria? Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Flor, What is the new type of pathogenic bacteria? Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 As pathogenic bacteria in the first test he had klebsiella oxytoca and citrobacter freundii, now he has klebsiella oxytoca, klebsiella pneumaniae and proteus vulgaris. Also they show imbalanced flora, which is neither good or bad. Before he had gamma strep, haemolytic e-coli and providencia sp., now he has the first two ones only. That must be good because this gives more space for the good bacteria (or maybe the bad too, no good). > > Flor, > > What is the new type of pathogenic bacteria? > > > Jody > mom to -7 and -9 > SCD 1/03 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 As pathogenic bacteria in the first test he had klebsiella oxytoca and citrobacter freundii, now he has klebsiella oxytoca, klebsiella pneumaniae and proteus vulgaris. Also they show imbalanced flora, which is neither good or bad. Before he had gamma strep, haemolytic e-coli and providencia sp., now he has the first two ones only. That must be good because this gives more space for the good bacteria (or maybe the bad too, no good). > > Flor, > > What is the new type of pathogenic bacteria? > > > Jody > mom to -7 and -9 > SCD 1/03 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Flor, Have you used any natural agents to get rid of the pathogenic bacteria? I was just reading about olive leaf. The webpage I read said that it would get rid of the K. Pneumoniae. Have you been giving probiotics or yogurt? Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Flor, Have you used any natural agents to get rid of the pathogenic bacteria? I was just reading about olive leaf. The webpage I read said that it would get rid of the K. Pneumoniae. Have you been giving probiotics or yogurt? Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 He is taking Kirkman Pro-Bio Inulin Free. He was taking one a day but I just increased it to twice (after the test). We tried the goat yogurt but his casein peptides went up a bit above the normal range, so we decided to stop. He had been taking the yogurt for about eight weeks when we did the test (we stopped a couple of days before taking the stool sample). We haven't used any natural agent yet because the lab told us that all his pathogenic bacteria were sensitive only to caprylic acid (I believe the yogurt contains some caprylic acid, is that right?) and the Kirkman's caprylic acid (Yeast Aid) was too bad of a taste for him and we had no way to give it (that was before we started SCD). They didn't test for olive leaf though. Now that he is on SCD I realize that the Yeast-Aid is not SCD legal. We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so we didn't try anything else. Have you heard of any success using antibiotics? Our doctor suggested that, but I don't feel it's a good idea. Any input? Flor > > Flor, > > Have you used any natural agents to get rid of the pathogenic bacteria? > > I was just reading about olive leaf. The webpage I read said that it > would get rid of the K. Pneumoniae. > > Have you been giving probiotics or yogurt? > > > Jody > mom to -7 and -9 > SCD 1/03 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 He is taking Kirkman Pro-Bio Inulin Free. He was taking one a day but I just increased it to twice (after the test). We tried the goat yogurt but his casein peptides went up a bit above the normal range, so we decided to stop. He had been taking the yogurt for about eight weeks when we did the test (we stopped a couple of days before taking the stool sample). We haven't used any natural agent yet because the lab told us that all his pathogenic bacteria were sensitive only to caprylic acid (I believe the yogurt contains some caprylic acid, is that right?) and the Kirkman's caprylic acid (Yeast Aid) was too bad of a taste for him and we had no way to give it (that was before we started SCD). They didn't test for olive leaf though. Now that he is on SCD I realize that the Yeast-Aid is not SCD legal. We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so we didn't try anything else. Have you heard of any success using antibiotics? Our doctor suggested that, but I don't feel it's a good idea. Any input? Flor > > Flor, > > Have you used any natural agents to get rid of the pathogenic bacteria? > > I was just reading about olive leaf. The webpage I read said that it > would get rid of the K. Pneumoniae. > > Have you been giving probiotics or yogurt? > > > Jody > mom to -7 and -9 > SCD 1/03 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 He is taking Kirkman Pro-Bio Inulin Free. He was taking one a day but I just increased it to twice (after the test). We tried the goat yogurt but his casein peptides went up a bit above the normal range, so we decided to stop. He had been taking the yogurt for about eight weeks when we did the test (we stopped a couple of days before taking the stool sample). We haven't used any natural agent yet because the lab told us that all his pathogenic bacteria were sensitive only to caprylic acid (I believe the yogurt contains some caprylic acid, is that right?) and the Kirkman's caprylic acid (Yeast Aid) was too bad of a taste for him and we had no way to give it (that was before we started SCD). They didn't test for olive leaf though. Now that he is on SCD I realize that the Yeast-Aid is not SCD legal. We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so we didn't try anything else. Have you heard of any success using antibiotics? Our doctor suggested that, but I don't feel it's a good idea. Any input? Flor > > Flor, > > Have you used any natural agents to get rid of the pathogenic bacteria? > > I was just reading about olive leaf. The webpage I read said that it > would get rid of the K. Pneumoniae. > > Have you been giving probiotics or yogurt? > > > Jody > mom to -7 and -9 > SCD 1/03 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Martha, That is very interesting. I imagine some of your symptoms improved and that's why you stuck to the diet for so long, is that the case? How did it go with the antibiotics? Did the numbers at least went down? Did they cause other imbalances (yeast, etc).? Do you mean certain types of bacteria can be starved and others not? Thanks for sharing, Flor > > > We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so > > we didn't try anything else. > > That hasn't been my experience. I've been on SCD for over 7 years. > I actually started SCD because a stool test showed high levels of > citrobacter freundii and klebsiella pneumoniae and I understood that > klebsiella was a bacteria that could be starved out. In the last 7 years > I've done both natural products and antibiotics. I hadn't repeated the > stool test until recently, though. ( I moved and changed doctors.) I > retested about a month ago and was very discouraged to see that I > still have high levels of citrobacter freundii and in addition have picked > up staph aureus and aeromonas hydrophilia. I also have 3 in the > " imbalances " column (enterobacter cloacae, gamma strep, and > escherichia hermanii.) It's quite discouraging. On the other hand, I > did manage to get rid of the klebsiella. I find it interesting that your > son got rid of citrobacter frundii, but picked up klebsiella pneumoniae > while I had the opposite situation. > > This probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's my experience. > My current doctor thinks low stomach acid may be contributing to my > ongoing problems with bacteria, so I've recently started taking > Betaine HcL with every meal. > > -Martha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Martha, That is very interesting. I imagine some of your symptoms improved and that's why you stuck to the diet for so long, is that the case? How did it go with the antibiotics? Did the numbers at least went down? Did they cause other imbalances (yeast, etc).? Do you mean certain types of bacteria can be starved and others not? Thanks for sharing, Flor > > > We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so > > we didn't try anything else. > > That hasn't been my experience. I've been on SCD for over 7 years. > I actually started SCD because a stool test showed high levels of > citrobacter freundii and klebsiella pneumoniae and I understood that > klebsiella was a bacteria that could be starved out. In the last 7 years > I've done both natural products and antibiotics. I hadn't repeated the > stool test until recently, though. ( I moved and changed doctors.) I > retested about a month ago and was very discouraged to see that I > still have high levels of citrobacter freundii and in addition have picked > up staph aureus and aeromonas hydrophilia. I also have 3 in the > " imbalances " column (enterobacter cloacae, gamma strep, and > escherichia hermanii.) It's quite discouraging. On the other hand, I > did manage to get rid of the klebsiella. I find it interesting that your > son got rid of citrobacter frundii, but picked up klebsiella pneumoniae > while I had the opposite situation. > > This probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's my experience. > My current doctor thinks low stomach acid may be contributing to my > ongoing problems with bacteria, so I've recently started taking > Betaine HcL with every meal. > > -Martha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Flor, SCD should eventually work to restore the balance to the gut flora. It's not a " quick fix " though. Probiotics and yogurt will make it happen more quickly. What starter were you using when you made the goat yogurt? If you use antibiotics, that will wipe out the good and the bad bacteria. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Flor, SCD should eventually work to restore the balance to the gut flora. It's not a " quick fix " though. Probiotics and yogurt will make it happen more quickly. What starter were you using when you made the goat yogurt? If you use antibiotics, that will wipe out the good and the bad bacteria. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Flor, SCD should eventually work to restore the balance to the gut flora. It's not a " quick fix " though. Probiotics and yogurt will make it happen more quickly. What starter were you using when you made the goat yogurt? If you use antibiotics, that will wipe out the good and the bad bacteria. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 " The OAT showed that his clostridia infection was worse than before. So really disppointing results. " Just to remind everyone, SCD cannot get rid of clostridia. Clostridia can feed on both carbs and PROTEIN. Clostridia issues need other intervention beyond SCD. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 " The OAT showed that his clostridia infection was worse than before. So really disppointing results. " Just to remind everyone, SCD cannot get rid of clostridia. Clostridia can feed on both carbs and PROTEIN. Clostridia issues need other intervention beyond SCD. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 " The OAT showed that his clostridia infection was worse than before. So really disppointing results. " Just to remind everyone, SCD cannot get rid of clostridia. Clostridia can feed on both carbs and PROTEIN. Clostridia issues need other intervention beyond SCD. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hi Flor, > He is taking Kirkman Pro-Bio Inulin Free. He was taking one a day but > I just increased it to twice (after the test). The Pro bio inulin free is SCD illegal (dextrose, bifidum and other unrecommended bacterial strains). > his pathogenic bacteria were sensitive only to caprylic acid (I > believe the yogurt contains some caprylic acid, is that right?) No, I don't think the yogurt contains caprylic acid. Caprylic acid is naturally in coconut oil. and > the Kirkman's caprylic acid (Yeast Aid) was too bad of a taste for him > and we had no way to give it (that was before we started SCD). They > didn't test for olive leaf though. Now that he is on SCD I realize > that the Yeast-Aid is not SCD legal. > > We thought SCD was all we needed to kill the pathogenic bacteria, so > we didn't try anything else. It depends on which bacteria they are and what the levels are. > Have you heard of any success using antibiotics? Our doctor suggested > that, but I don't feel it's a good idea. Any input? It depends on what the pathogenic microbe is and what antibiotic it is. For example Vancomycin, an antibiotic, can be effective against Clostridium difficile. Sheila, SCD 59 mos, 22 yrs UC mom of and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Dear Flor, We are using Houston enzymes also. We are using the " gentle " ones. They're without the fruit enzymes which some of the most allergic children have problems with. Since Eddie is profoundly allergic to many many things we started with the " hypoallergenic " versions - they are AFP-Peptizyde and Zyme Prime. We also use No Fenol which you didn't mention. We did introduce this last and felt it was important. Eddie now has a fair scoop with each of 3 meals (its about 3/4 tsp for a regular adult meal and we give the equivalent depending on the size of his meal). The Solgar caprylic acid seems bland. One of the laternatives we looked at needed to be taken in a capsule (which Eddie can't do yet) so we were pleased to find a tablet. We crush up the tablet into Eddie's BrainChild vitamins (these are liquid). We make up enough vitamins and minerals and other supplements (excluding probiotics and boulardii) for 2 days - emptying capsules and crushing tablets and keep it in the fridge and then measure the right amount into his meals. The caprylic acid went in unnoticed - though we always start with a low dose and build up. Eddie has just started Flagyl and will soon take higher dose caprylic acid and we plan to retest (OAT and stool) around March to see how we're getting on. Fingers-crossed this will have an impact on his bad bugs. Hope all goes well with Simon. Our boys sound so similar - glad to see you are seeing progress too. We were surprised Eddie's results were so bad in his recent test when we've seen such dramatic improvements. While we were quite down about the infections - in a way it gives us a lot of hope for other big improvements by healing the dysbiosis. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Sandy > > Sandy, > Sorry for taking so long. I am very glad your son is doing well and > I hope he keeps improving. I am very glad to find someone with a boy > the same age as mine and we starded SCD almost at the same time. > > We are also doing a lot of other things and seeing good improvements. > Every time I start writing this email my son wakes up from his nap > and wants my attention. Now again. I would like to ask a few quick > questions. > > Simon is still eating purees only. We have been using Houston's > Peptizyde and Zyme-Prime (1/8 tsp each at each meal) for the last > six months. What enzymes do you use? > > We also did the yogurt (1/2 oz/day) but we stopped as his peptides > went above normal. > > How is the taste of that Caprylic acid? may be something worth > trying. > > Thank you very much for sharing, > > Flor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Dear Flor, We are using Houston enzymes also. We are using the " gentle " ones. They're without the fruit enzymes which some of the most allergic children have problems with. Since Eddie is profoundly allergic to many many things we started with the " hypoallergenic " versions - they are AFP-Peptizyde and Zyme Prime. We also use No Fenol which you didn't mention. We did introduce this last and felt it was important. Eddie now has a fair scoop with each of 3 meals (its about 3/4 tsp for a regular adult meal and we give the equivalent depending on the size of his meal). The Solgar caprylic acid seems bland. One of the laternatives we looked at needed to be taken in a capsule (which Eddie can't do yet) so we were pleased to find a tablet. We crush up the tablet into Eddie's BrainChild vitamins (these are liquid). We make up enough vitamins and minerals and other supplements (excluding probiotics and boulardii) for 2 days - emptying capsules and crushing tablets and keep it in the fridge and then measure the right amount into his meals. The caprylic acid went in unnoticed - though we always start with a low dose and build up. Eddie has just started Flagyl and will soon take higher dose caprylic acid and we plan to retest (OAT and stool) around March to see how we're getting on. Fingers-crossed this will have an impact on his bad bugs. Hope all goes well with Simon. Our boys sound so similar - glad to see you are seeing progress too. We were surprised Eddie's results were so bad in his recent test when we've seen such dramatic improvements. While we were quite down about the infections - in a way it gives us a lot of hope for other big improvements by healing the dysbiosis. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Sandy > > Sandy, > Sorry for taking so long. I am very glad your son is doing well and > I hope he keeps improving. I am very glad to find someone with a boy > the same age as mine and we starded SCD almost at the same time. > > We are also doing a lot of other things and seeing good improvements. > Every time I start writing this email my son wakes up from his nap > and wants my attention. Now again. I would like to ask a few quick > questions. > > Simon is still eating purees only. We have been using Houston's > Peptizyde and Zyme-Prime (1/8 tsp each at each meal) for the last > six months. What enzymes do you use? > > We also did the yogurt (1/2 oz/day) but we stopped as his peptides > went above normal. > > How is the taste of that Caprylic acid? may be something worth > trying. > > Thank you very much for sharing, > > Flor > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 We have gotten very good information from the Doctors Data Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis. This will have to be ordered by our doctor- hopefully you have a good DAN physician who's famoliar with it. If not (and it's a basic test so I would hope so), the results and analytic interpretation are written in lay language so as to be intelligible to non-medical people. It even suggests treatment options. Different tests can provide different results. We had an upper and lower GI done 6 weeks before our CDSA and the scopes didn't show anything terribly wrong at the visible level. The CDSA looks at the cellular level however, where there were very clear markers for inflammation, yeast, bacteria, strep, blood, etc. The two tests were miles apart in terms of the severity of problem they revealed for my son. The CDSA was much more useful than the scope in evaluating the problem and developing a treatment plan. Suzanne > > This is the first time I am writing to the group. I have been an " observer " > for 6 weeks. I am a bit baffled today. Our 7 year old daughter has been on > the egg free/casein free SCD diet for six weeks in hopes of helping her > constipation and rages. She has other physical symptoms too; Hashimotos > (autoimmune thyroid) disease, asthma, IgA deficiency. She has Igg allergies > to the casein and eggs as well as a few other foods not allowed on the > diet... there are observable mood and GI changes when she eats them. > She had such a horrible die off period lasting a month with symtoms like > nausea, fever, vomiting, lethargy that was much more severe than I could > have imagined.(no one else in the family caught it so I doubt it was the > flu) She also had loose, horrible smelling bright yellow stools1-2 times a > day. The die off was so severe that I had a stool analysis done week 3 to > see what her body was " purging. " We got the results today and all was normal > (no parasites, no bacterial overgrowth and only a slightly elevated level of > fungal forms and low secretory IgA) We had the test done through Diagnos > Techs. > Currently, her BM's are more normal color but less frequent than first > weeks of the diet, but her rages continue, just as bad, but slightly less > often (although she raged 3 times yesterday-ugh!) She is sure to have a rage > if she has not had a BM for a day or two or if she is hungry. (she is very > underweight) I was hoping a stool analysis might help us add some herbs or > meds (she takes Enzmedica enzymes now) My husband thought I was a nut to > start her on this diet and now that her results are normal her really thinks > I'm a nut! I'm fanatical about the diet, we're all on it and we don't eat > out. > My question is if anyone has had a normal stool analysis in spite of extreme > symptoms like hers. Should I get another done from a different lab or does > it not matter? Is a slightly elevated fungal level significant? and the low > secretory IgA? If it is not pathogenic what is it? > > Thanks! > Kerri > All SCD 6 weeks for 7 year old with constipation and rages > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 You mention rages with hunger and being underweight. Have you used the links (in the links section)to determine her daily caloric need and then used fitday.com to make sure that she is getting enough calories? http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread/links Also, what is she eating? Try inputting a day's menu into fitday.com and then post your results to the list or to me privately. Also be sure to post how many calories she needs. Jody mom to -7 and -9 SCD 1/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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