Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 I don't know alot about this stuff... (In fact probably 30% of this message barely even read like english to me) But what I was able to understand I'd have to support with a resounding yes! Regardless of the cause of cea, i personally think its abnormal amounts of various peptides in the blood are the part that cause the actual blood vessel dilation (I seriously don't know if this makes sense.. maybe abnormal peptides cause everything that occurs in the human body and I just don't understand it all yet?)... Whether its excess Nitric Oxide caused somehow by a defective hypothalimus, or excess CGRP from some unexplained tendency for skin inflammation, or excess VIP (vasosomething intestinal peptide) from an inability to digest protein adequately or whatever.. So the first five lines in this email in particular seemed to make alot of sense to me (of course I'm not an expert in this stuff yet, as medschool is still a few years off for me) Anyway, what I DO know, is after two and a half years of taking antibiotics, without adding probiotic supplementation until I first heard about it a few months ago, I know my digestion has been seriously impacted. I get stomach aches all the time, I get massive breakouts whenever I eat probably 75 or more different foods.. NONE of which caused a reaction for me two years ago. And I flush alot more often and alot worse to meals.. In fact food used to be a relatively minor trigger for me, and now it is second only to heat. I don't know for sure that digestion plays any significant role in causing cea.. (perhaps its perfectly normal to have cea without ANY abnormalities in your digestion.. but at the very very least, there is a sub-set of cea sufferers whos symptoms are worsened as a result of digestional difficulties. Hmm... Dr. Lazoff > Dear Marjorie, > > When I said increased GI permeability I was referring to abnormal > uptake of food peptides from the gastrointestinal tract that may > elicit an adverse immune response with consequent immunological > effects, or incomplete metabolism of such peptides that may have > either immunomodulatory or direct effects on the cellular level. > Strong humoral immune responses to food antigens, most commonly > cow's milk, wheat or egg, have been seen in patients with gluten > enteropathy (celiac disease), which may be an indicator of increased > or abnormal gastrointestinal permeability and subsequent immune > exposure, but this is just a theorical link. It is being researched > currently trying to find a link between autisim and food antigens. > I respect that you don't appreciate the link between food and > rosacea, but I like to dare to think differently even if I have it > wrong. I continue to read your posts and learn from them, maybe > someday I will learn " the hard way " that you are right. But then, > maybe I will learn that you were wrong. > > " You're just looking for an easy fourth-year elective that will give > you some research experience for your residency applications. You > know I'd be an easy Honors grade for you " . > > Maybe the first part is true, but about the easy Honors grade, I > doubt that. > > Eliza > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 I don't know alot about this stuff... (In fact probably 30% of this message barely even read like english to me) But what I was able to understand I'd have to support with a resounding yes! Regardless of the cause of cea, i personally think its abnormal amounts of various peptides in the blood are the part that cause the actual blood vessel dilation (I seriously don't know if this makes sense.. maybe abnormal peptides cause everything that occurs in the human body and I just don't understand it all yet?)... Whether its excess Nitric Oxide caused somehow by a defective hypothalimus, or excess CGRP from some unexplained tendency for skin inflammation, or excess VIP (vasosomething intestinal peptide) from an inability to digest protein adequately or whatever.. So the first five lines in this email in particular seemed to make alot of sense to me (of course I'm not an expert in this stuff yet, as medschool is still a few years off for me) Anyway, what I DO know, is after two and a half years of taking antibiotics, without adding probiotic supplementation until I first heard about it a few months ago, I know my digestion has been seriously impacted. I get stomach aches all the time, I get massive breakouts whenever I eat probably 75 or more different foods.. NONE of which caused a reaction for me two years ago. And I flush alot more often and alot worse to meals.. In fact food used to be a relatively minor trigger for me, and now it is second only to heat. I don't know for sure that digestion plays any significant role in causing cea.. (perhaps its perfectly normal to have cea without ANY abnormalities in your digestion.. but at the very very least, there is a sub-set of cea sufferers whos symptoms are worsened as a result of digestional difficulties. Hmm... Dr. Lazoff > Dear Marjorie, > > When I said increased GI permeability I was referring to abnormal > uptake of food peptides from the gastrointestinal tract that may > elicit an adverse immune response with consequent immunological > effects, or incomplete metabolism of such peptides that may have > either immunomodulatory or direct effects on the cellular level. > Strong humoral immune responses to food antigens, most commonly > cow's milk, wheat or egg, have been seen in patients with gluten > enteropathy (celiac disease), which may be an indicator of increased > or abnormal gastrointestinal permeability and subsequent immune > exposure, but this is just a theorical link. It is being researched > currently trying to find a link between autisim and food antigens. > I respect that you don't appreciate the link between food and > rosacea, but I like to dare to think differently even if I have it > wrong. I continue to read your posts and learn from them, maybe > someday I will learn " the hard way " that you are right. But then, > maybe I will learn that you were wrong. > > " You're just looking for an easy fourth-year elective that will give > you some research experience for your residency applications. You > know I'd be an easy Honors grade for you " . > > Maybe the first part is true, but about the easy Honors grade, I > doubt that. > > Eliza > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 I don't know alot about this stuff... (In fact probably 30% of this message barely even read like english to me) But what I was able to understand I'd have to support with a resounding yes! Regardless of the cause of cea, i personally think its abnormal amounts of various peptides in the blood are the part that cause the actual blood vessel dilation (I seriously don't know if this makes sense.. maybe abnormal peptides cause everything that occurs in the human body and I just don't understand it all yet?)... Whether its excess Nitric Oxide caused somehow by a defective hypothalimus, or excess CGRP from some unexplained tendency for skin inflammation, or excess VIP (vasosomething intestinal peptide) from an inability to digest protein adequately or whatever.. So the first five lines in this email in particular seemed to make alot of sense to me (of course I'm not an expert in this stuff yet, as medschool is still a few years off for me) Anyway, what I DO know, is after two and a half years of taking antibiotics, without adding probiotic supplementation until I first heard about it a few months ago, I know my digestion has been seriously impacted. I get stomach aches all the time, I get massive breakouts whenever I eat probably 75 or more different foods.. NONE of which caused a reaction for me two years ago. And I flush alot more often and alot worse to meals.. In fact food used to be a relatively minor trigger for me, and now it is second only to heat. I don't know for sure that digestion plays any significant role in causing cea.. (perhaps its perfectly normal to have cea without ANY abnormalities in your digestion.. but at the very very least, there is a sub-set of cea sufferers whos symptoms are worsened as a result of digestional difficulties. Hmm... Dr. Lazoff > Dear Marjorie, > > When I said increased GI permeability I was referring to abnormal > uptake of food peptides from the gastrointestinal tract that may > elicit an adverse immune response with consequent immunological > effects, or incomplete metabolism of such peptides that may have > either immunomodulatory or direct effects on the cellular level. > Strong humoral immune responses to food antigens, most commonly > cow's milk, wheat or egg, have been seen in patients with gluten > enteropathy (celiac disease), which may be an indicator of increased > or abnormal gastrointestinal permeability and subsequent immune > exposure, but this is just a theorical link. It is being researched > currently trying to find a link between autisim and food antigens. > I respect that you don't appreciate the link between food and > rosacea, but I like to dare to think differently even if I have it > wrong. I continue to read your posts and learn from them, maybe > someday I will learn " the hard way " that you are right. But then, > maybe I will learn that you were wrong. > > " You're just looking for an easy fourth-year elective that will give > you some research experience for your residency applications. You > know I'd be an easy Honors grade for you " . > > Maybe the first part is true, but about the easy Honors grade, I > doubt that. > > Eliza > > > > -- > Please read the list highlights before posting to the whole group (http://rosacea.ii.net/toc.html). Your post will be delayed if you don't give a meaningful subject or trim your reply text. You must change the subject when replying to a digest ! > > See http://www.drnase.com for info on his recently published book. > > To leave the list send an email to rosacea-support-unsubscribe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 > When I said increased GI permeability I was referring to abnormal > uptake of food peptides from the gastrointestinal tract that may > elicit an adverse immune response with consequent immunological > effects, or incomplete metabolism of such peptides that may have > either immunomodulatory or direct effects on the cellular level. Right, Eliza, but my point was that all that can be caused by *normal* GI permeability. > Strong humoral immune responses to food antigens, most commonly > cow's milk, wheat or egg, have been seen in patients with gluten > enteropathy (celiac disease), which may be an indicator of > increased or abnormal gastrointestinal permeability and subsequent > immune exposure, but this is just a theorical link. I read your words, but I'm not understanding your underlying principles. Let's review: we know the pathophysiology of celiac disease involves some kind of abnormal immune-mediated response to gluten products. Keep in mind that the classic presentation of celiac sprue is malabsorption, not food allergies. There is a sub-clinical form of celiac disease, one where the overt gluten hypersensitivity is subtle and non-specific system symptoms predominate. This is not a theory -- since the 1970s and 80s, we've known that many people have some of the immune markers of celiac disease, and some non-specific symptoms of gluten-related indigestion. For a number of reasons it's important to diagnose such people whenever possible, but the treatment is the same as with classic celiac disease -- dietary control. Regarding milk products, I *think* what you're referring to is not celiac disease but the sometimes-associated selective IgA deficiency that accompanies a proportion of patients with either full-blown or sub-clinical celiac disease (although IgA deficiency is much more common as an isolated disorder or in association with some medications (nothing rosaceans would use)). Among other problems, these patients also lack secretory IgA's protective mucosal barrier, which results in increased incidence of GI infections and food intolerances, exactly by the mechanism you described about. Lack of IgA can be tested for, and presents with symptoms beyond the GI tract. > It is being researched > currently trying to find a link between autisim and food antigens. From what I recall, that research was first conducted in the mid-late 80s. It's an interesting theory, but it hasn't panned out. There is one well-respected physician in England who has a related theory, which may be what you're referring to. But specifically, what does this have to do with what we're talking about? > I respect that you don't appreciate the link between food and > rosacea, but I like to dare to think differently even if I have it > wrong. As a medical student, think however you like. Right now you're bicycle riding with training wheels, you're not going to tip over no matter how you ride/what you think. > I continue to read your posts and learn from them, maybe > someday I will learn " the hard way " that you are right. But then, > maybe I will learn that you were wrong. Medical students always think practicing physicians are wrong and unhip, just as teenagers always think their parents are wrong and unhip. I thought like you did, but I learned the truth over time. > " You're just looking for an easy fourth-year elective that will give > you some research experience for your residency applications. You > know I'd be an easy Honors grade for you " . > > Maybe the first part is true, but about the easy Honors grade, I > doubt that. Naw, just because I wouldn't let you get away with " sloppy thinking " doesn't mean I'm not a pushover for a good grade (if your learning curve is steep and you end up deserving it. ) Marjorie Marjorie Lazoff, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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