Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 That's exactly the point though, the gut is injured. An injured gut has an inability to handle pathogens, while a healthy gut has the healthy mucosal lining, evidence of a healthy immune system. Recently, a very reputable farm that I use, and still use, had some ecoli show up in the milk. 3 children fought really hard in critical care in the hospital. The ecoli showed up in others guts, but their bodies had mounted an appropriate immune response, and thus, they had antibodies. The moral of this story. If my children had consummed raw milk products, it would have sent them into a spiral of regression so bad, and they may have possibly lost their lives. We have been on SCD for one year and a half, and why undo a healing process. Healing takes time. I too believe that raw milk and raw milk products are the healthiest! I look forward to the day when little guts are healed, immune systems functionning appropriately well! I completely believe in and support the raw dairy movement, raw, fresh and local. We do eat SCD legal raw milk goats cheese, it is aged, cultured and tested, and I feel we are in the clear for that. By culturing any milk, enzymes are added to the food because of the metabolic byproduct of the culture organisms. About pasteurization, I do not believe home pasteurization of milk is anywhere close to the pasteurization process for commercial milks, organic or not. Those milks are pasteurized at extremely high temps for a minimum of 15 minutes, completely obliterating the fat and protein structures of the milk. So, essentially, by culturing you are replacing the enzymes. The biggest loss by pasteurizing raw milk is the loss of some of the beneficial microbe cultures. However, as Elaine has pointed out, even some of those beneficial ones, can overgrow and seem pathogenic, when the gut is injured, and thus, the immune system is injured. Gut and immune are intricately part of one another. 95% of the immune system is in the digestive system, makes sense, as it is a huge entry way for pathogens into the body. Elaine's focus was healing the body, healing this system. It is not that some whole foods are unhealthy, perse, it is that certain foods have little to no ability to help in healing this system, and detract from the healing. Looking at studies of people with healthy guts and immune systems, and what is healthy for them, does not make for a good parallel for people whose systems are damaged. A car that has engine problems should not be driving as far as its find engine compatriots...needs some work. Summer placossarnold Patty@...> wrote: I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I personally beleive that it is exactly because of our injured gut issues that I don't want to kill off the beneficial enzymes in the raw milk. We need all the help we can get! Peace, Patty > > Hi Patty, > > > If you heat it up above 165 or so you will kill a lot of the > > beneficial stuff in the milk and might as well buy the pasturized. I > > know that raw cow's milk is supposed to be heated to just 110 or so > to > > make yougart. I am wondering if there is any difference with goat. > > > > Patty > > scd 15 days > > Since most here are dealing with injured guts it is safer to bring the > goat milk to 180°F (cow milk to the simmer stage) to kill any possible > harmful microbes. The yogurt cultures will produce helpful enzymes as > they digest the lactose in the milk. > > Sheila, SCD 61 mos, UC 22 yrs > mom of and > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and http://www.pecanbread.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 That's exactly the point though, the gut is injured. An injured gut has an inability to handle pathogens, while a healthy gut has the healthy mucosal lining, evidence of a healthy immune system. Recently, a very reputable farm that I use, and still use, had some ecoli show up in the milk. 3 children fought really hard in critical care in the hospital. The ecoli showed up in others guts, but their bodies had mounted an appropriate immune response, and thus, they had antibodies. The moral of this story. If my children had consummed raw milk products, it would have sent them into a spiral of regression so bad, and they may have possibly lost their lives. We have been on SCD for one year and a half, and why undo a healing process. Healing takes time. I too believe that raw milk and raw milk products are the healthiest! I look forward to the day when little guts are healed, immune systems functionning appropriately well! I completely believe in and support the raw dairy movement, raw, fresh and local. We do eat SCD legal raw milk goats cheese, it is aged, cultured and tested, and I feel we are in the clear for that. By culturing any milk, enzymes are added to the food because of the metabolic byproduct of the culture organisms. About pasteurization, I do not believe home pasteurization of milk is anywhere close to the pasteurization process for commercial milks, organic or not. Those milks are pasteurized at extremely high temps for a minimum of 15 minutes, completely obliterating the fat and protein structures of the milk. So, essentially, by culturing you are replacing the enzymes. The biggest loss by pasteurizing raw milk is the loss of some of the beneficial microbe cultures. However, as Elaine has pointed out, even some of those beneficial ones, can overgrow and seem pathogenic, when the gut is injured, and thus, the immune system is injured. Gut and immune are intricately part of one another. 95% of the immune system is in the digestive system, makes sense, as it is a huge entry way for pathogens into the body. Elaine's focus was healing the body, healing this system. It is not that some whole foods are unhealthy, perse, it is that certain foods have little to no ability to help in healing this system, and detract from the healing. Looking at studies of people with healthy guts and immune systems, and what is healthy for them, does not make for a good parallel for people whose systems are damaged. A car that has engine problems should not be driving as far as its find engine compatriots...needs some work. Summer placossarnold Patty@...> wrote: I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I personally beleive that it is exactly because of our injured gut issues that I don't want to kill off the beneficial enzymes in the raw milk. We need all the help we can get! Peace, Patty > > Hi Patty, > > > If you heat it up above 165 or so you will kill a lot of the > > beneficial stuff in the milk and might as well buy the pasturized. I > > know that raw cow's milk is supposed to be heated to just 110 or so > to > > make yougart. I am wondering if there is any difference with goat. > > > > Patty > > scd 15 days > > Since most here are dealing with injured guts it is safer to bring the > goat milk to 180°F (cow milk to the simmer stage) to kill any possible > harmful microbes. The yogurt cultures will produce helpful enzymes as > they digest the lactose in the milk. > > Sheila, SCD 61 mos, UC 22 yrs > mom of and > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info and http://www.pecanbread.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 So, what would you give a healthy baby after breastfeeding, raw goat's milk or not...? Jenn & K Re: raw goat yougart What a great explanation of why we need at this time to heat the raw goats milk. I to have wondered about some of these things. Thanks Sandy M > > > > Hi Patty, > > > > > If you heat it up above 165 or so you will kill a lot of the > > > beneficial stuff in the milk and might as well buy the pasturized. I > > > know that raw cow's milk is supposed to be heated to just 110 or so > > to > > > make yougart. I am wondering if there is any difference with goat. > > > > > > Patty > > > scd 15 days > > > > Since most here are dealing with injured guts it is safer to bring the > > goat milk to 180°F (cow milk to the simmer stage) to kill any possible > > harmful microbes. The yogurt cultures will produce helpful enzymes as > > they digest the lactose in the milk. > > > > Sheila, SCD 61 mos, UC 22 yrs > > mom of and > > > > > > > > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info > and > http://www.pecanbread.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I am not sure if you were directing this question at me, but I am going to answer what I would do anyway. If situations in our lives were different, and I had a robust breastfed baby, I would, at one to two years, transition the milk source to that of raw goat milk. But NOT just any raw goat milk. Would have to be completely pastured, no grain treats (grains injure their guts making room for ecoli), and organic pasture. I wouldn't overdo the milk, either. Like the cows at the farm near me, even though they are organic pastured, they get grain treats in the fall, which opens up the gateway to minute gut damage and disease causing organisms like ecoli or anything else, to move in and proliferate and contaminate the milk. The rest, a healthy immune system can handle and develop antibodies. While so many of us, with special needs kids and health problems, have to focus on completel sterilization in the interim, because the immune systems are malfunctionning and unable to make antibodies and are likely to be further suppressed, a healthy immune system doesn't consider these trifles anything more than trifles. So yes, out of any possible milk choice, from soy to cows to pasteurized, I would give my baby, sans digestive disturbances, raw goats milk from an impeccable local farm. Summer Jim and Jen jlessard@...> wrote: So, what would you give a healthy baby after breastfeeding, raw goat's milk or not...? Jenn & K Re: raw goat yougart What a great explanation of why we need at this time to heat the raw goats milk. I to have wondered about some of these things. Thanks Sandy M > > > > Hi Patty, > > > > > If you heat it up above 165 or so you will kill a lot of the > > > beneficial stuff in the milk and might as well buy the pasturized. I > > > know that raw cow's milk is supposed to be heated to just 110 or so > > to > > > make yougart. I am wondering if there is any difference with goat. > > > > > > Patty > > > scd 15 days > > > > Since most here are dealing with injured guts it is safer to bring the > > goat milk to 180°F (cow milk to the simmer stage) to kill any possible > > harmful microbes. The yogurt cultures will produce helpful enzymes as > > they digest the lactose in the milk. > > > > Sheila, SCD 61 mos, UC 22 yrs > > mom of and > > > > > > > > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following websites: > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info > and > http://www.pecanbread.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Would you mind answering my question posted in a different thread, I have access to either pastured raw jersey cow milk or pasturized organic goat milk for yogurt, which should I choose? Also, my ammonia question.............sorry, I just really trust your research on this one > >Reply-To: pecanbread >To: pecanbread >Subject: Re: Re: raw goat yougart >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:37:30 -0800 (PST) > >I am not sure if you were directing this question at me, but I am going to >answer what I would do anyway. If situations in our lives were different, >and I had a robust breastfed baby, I would, at one to two years, transition >the milk source to that of raw goat milk. > > But NOT just any raw goat milk. Would have to be completely pastured, no >grain treats (grains injure their guts making room for ecoli), and organic >pasture. I wouldn't overdo the milk, either. > > Like the cows at the farm near me, even though they are organic >pastured, they get grain treats in the fall, which opens up the gateway to >minute gut damage and disease causing organisms like ecoli or anything >else, to move in and proliferate and contaminate the milk. The rest, a >healthy immune system can handle and develop antibodies. > > While so many of us, with special needs kids and health problems, have >to focus on completel sterilization in the interim, because the immune >systems are malfunctionning and unable to make antibodies and are likely to >be further suppressed, a healthy immune system doesn't consider these >trifles anything more than trifles. > > So yes, out of any possible milk choice, from soy to cows to >pasteurized, I would give my baby, sans digestive disturbances, raw goats >milk from an impeccable local farm. > > Summer > >Jim and Jen jlessard@...> wrote: > So, what would you give a healthy baby after breastfeeding, raw goat's >milk >or not...? Jenn & K > Re: raw goat yougart > > >What a great explanation of why we need at this time to heat the raw >goats milk. I to have wondered about some of these things. >Thanks >Sandy M > > > > > > > Hi Patty, > > > > > > > If you heat it up above 165 or so you will kill a lot of the > > > > beneficial stuff in the milk and might as well buy the >pasturized. I > > > > know that raw cow's milk is supposed to be heated to just 110 >or so > > > to > > > > make yougart. I am wondering if there is any difference with >goat. > > > > > > > > Patty > > > > scd 15 days > > > > > > Since most here are dealing with injured guts it is safer to >bring the > > > goat milk to 180°F (cow milk to the simmer stage) to kill any >possible > > > harmful microbes. The yogurt cultures will produce helpful >enzymes as > > > they digest the lactose in the milk. > > > > > > Sheila, SCD 61 mos, UC 22 yrs > > > mom of and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the >book _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the >following websites: > > http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info > > and > > http://www.pecanbread.com > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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