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RE: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

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Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

You can also supplement calcium, if it's a deal breaker.

Agape,

Bunce ajbunce@...> wrote:

Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

You can also supplement calcium, if it's a deal breaker.

Agape,

Bunce ajbunce@...> wrote:

Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

You can also supplement calcium, if it's a deal breaker.

Agape,

Bunce ajbunce@...> wrote:

Hey guys,

I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE THE DAIRY.

We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the added benefits of

SCD. If you are concerned about calcium, dark green vegetables and greens are

high. If you need to get probiotics (since you can't do the yogurt) get SCD

safe probiotics or look into the almond yogurt or coconut milk yogurts. Once

our guts heal we look forward to experimenting with SCD safe yogurt...but for

now will wait until we heal a little longer. We are not alone!

Antoinette

SCD day 8, (Celiac GFCF/paleo for 14 months prior)

Newbie ?: Sugar and IgG test

Hi folks,

We're planning to start SCD very soon, but I'm having a little trouble

theoretically transitioning my wife from GFCF to SCD. Her main concerns

are that our son had high IgG sensitivity to eggs, bananas, casein and

cheese, among other items, and she's worried about reintroducing these.

Also, she's worried that reintroducing fruit and honey, after their

being no-nos on our GFCF/sugar-free diet for so long, is going to bring

back bacteria and more yeast.

Anyone have a good layman's way (beyond the book) of explaining why

these key foods that were off limits are now OK? Were they OK all along?

Thanks, Bill

For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.infohttp://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/\

>

and

http://www.pecanbread.comhttp://www.pecanbread.com/>

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Guest guest

>

> I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE

THE

> DAIRY. We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the

> added benefits of SCD.

We've been GFCF for 2 years and are starting SCD on Monday. We were very

strict and only had three infractions with gluten, none with dairy. We

were able to add real butter last summer with no problems.

This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the transition

toward 100%. I decided to try the goat milk yogurt with a yogourmet

maker (and starter which isn't cows' milk free). I gave some to my son

in a smoothie with no problems. He got another one yesterday.

For me, it was worth it to give it a try. I preferred to try it before

doing the intro diet, so I can have a clearer picture of whether he

could tolerate it or not without getting confused with die-off. I had

already started using butter so knew he could handle small amounts with

no trouble.

If you have a child who is very sensitive to casein or dairy, you might

not want to try this, but we did and I'm glad since it gives us more

options and the yogurt is so healthy.

Becky

mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

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Guest guest

>

> I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE

THE

> DAIRY. We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the

> added benefits of SCD.

We've been GFCF for 2 years and are starting SCD on Monday. We were very

strict and only had three infractions with gluten, none with dairy. We

were able to add real butter last summer with no problems.

This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the transition

toward 100%. I decided to try the goat milk yogurt with a yogourmet

maker (and starter which isn't cows' milk free). I gave some to my son

in a smoothie with no problems. He got another one yesterday.

For me, it was worth it to give it a try. I preferred to try it before

doing the intro diet, so I can have a clearer picture of whether he

could tolerate it or not without getting confused with die-off. I had

already started using butter so knew he could handle small amounts with

no trouble.

If you have a child who is very sensitive to casein or dairy, you might

not want to try this, but we did and I'm glad since it gives us more

options and the yogurt is so healthy.

Becky

mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

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Guest guest

>

>

> >

> > I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE

> THE

> > DAIRY. We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the

> > added benefits of SCD.

>

> We've been GFCF for 2 years and are starting SCD on Monday. We were very

> strict and only had three infractions with gluten, none with dairy. We

> were able to add real butter last summer with no problems.

>

> This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the transition

> toward 100%.

Please go on the introduction diet first :

http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

Although the cheesecake recipe there calls for yogurt, we suggest not giving

yogurt until

sevral weeks after starting the diet anf starting with tiny amounts.

here is more information about yogust:

http://www.pecanbread.com/goatyogurt.html.

Carol F.

Celiac, SCD 6 years, SCD Cooking Classes

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Guest guest

>

>

> >

> > I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE

> THE

> > DAIRY. We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the

> > added benefits of SCD.

>

> We've been GFCF for 2 years and are starting SCD on Monday. We were very

> strict and only had three infractions with gluten, none with dairy. We

> were able to add real butter last summer with no problems.

>

> This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the transition

> toward 100%.

Please go on the introduction diet first :

http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

Although the cheesecake recipe there calls for yogurt, we suggest not giving

yogurt until

sevral weeks after starting the diet anf starting with tiny amounts.

here is more information about yogust:

http://www.pecanbread.com/goatyogurt.html.

Carol F.

Celiac, SCD 6 years, SCD Cooking Classes

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Guest guest

>

>

> >

> > I discovered early on that many people on this list serve DO NOT USE

> THE

> > DAIRY. We have been GFCF for over 14 months, and look forward to the

> > added benefits of SCD.

>

> We've been GFCF for 2 years and are starting SCD on Monday. We were very

> strict and only had three infractions with gluten, none with dairy. We

> were able to add real butter last summer with no problems.

>

> This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the transition

> toward 100%.

Please go on the introduction diet first :

http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

Although the cheesecake recipe there calls for yogurt, we suggest not giving

yogurt until

sevral weeks after starting the diet anf starting with tiny amounts.

here is more information about yogust:

http://www.pecanbread.com/goatyogurt.html.

Carol F.

Celiac, SCD 6 years, SCD Cooking Classes

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Guest guest

Yes, when we start on Monday we will be starting with the intro diet. I

intend to follow the diet the way it is recommended once we officially

start on Monday.

My boys have been getting probiotics for the last two years. Is there a

problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? I just can't imagine

why.

Becky

mom to Noah (6, HFA) and (3, NT)

> > This week we have been trying some SCD recipes and making the

transition

> > toward 100%.

>

> Please go on the introduction diet first :

>

> http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html

>

> Although the cheesecake recipe there calls for yogurt, we suggest not

> giving yogurt until

> sevral weeks after starting the diet anf starting with tiny amounts.

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Guest guest

" Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can eat

the yogurt too, correct?

Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

" Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can eat

the yogurt too, correct?

Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

" Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can eat

the yogurt too, correct?

Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

Jody is this true for all fermented products, I have a hard time with all of

them and I am trying to figure out if I have a sensativity to the

fermentation or if I just need to get used to it

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

>Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:46:32 -0000

>

> " Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

>

>

>You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can

>eat

>the yogurt too, correct?

>

>Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

>

>But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

>trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

>

>

>Jody

>mom to -7 and -9

>SCD 1/03

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

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Guest guest

Jody is this true for all fermented products, I have a hard time with all of

them and I am trying to figure out if I have a sensativity to the

fermentation or if I just need to get used to it

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

>Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:46:32 -0000

>

> " Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

>

>

>You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can

>eat

>the yogurt too, correct?

>

>Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

>

>But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

>trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

>

>

>Jody

>mom to -7 and -9

>SCD 1/03

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Jody is this true for all fermented products, I have a hard time with all of

them and I am trying to figure out if I have a sensativity to the

fermentation or if I just need to get used to it

>

>Reply-To: pecanbread

>To: pecanbread

>Subject: Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

>Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:46:32 -0000

>

> " Is there a problem with people not on SCD eating the yogurt? "

>

>

>You are asking if the other people in your family who are not on SCD can

>eat

>the yogurt too, correct?

>

>Anyone can eat the yogurt. SCD or not.

>

>But for anyone with gut issues, I would start slow because the yogurt can

>trigger a pretty big die off reaction because it is so powerful.

>

>

>Jody

>mom to -7 and -9

>SCD 1/03

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

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Guest guest

,

I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

fermented foods at all.

My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

what to tell you.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

,

I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

fermented foods at all.

My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

what to tell you.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

,

I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

fermented foods at all.

My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

what to tell you.

Jody

mom to -7 and -9

SCD 1/03

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Guest guest

K had this problem and still does to an extent but, I still give her the

yogurt. She is starting not to gag on it so, maybe it's something that takes

a long time working at everyday. Just keep trying. It does get better. I

have the same problem. Jenn & K 9 months SCD

Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

> ,

>

> I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

> The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

> triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

>

> I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

> when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

> my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

> swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

>

> So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

> overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

> fermented foods at all.

>

> My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

>

> I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

> tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

> attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

>

> I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

> what to tell you.

>

> Jody

> mom to -7 and -9

> SCD 1/03

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

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Guest guest

K had this problem and still does to an extent but, I still give her the

yogurt. She is starting not to gag on it so, maybe it's something that takes

a long time working at everyday. Just keep trying. It does get better. I

have the same problem. Jenn & K 9 months SCD

Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

> ,

>

> I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

> The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

> triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

>

> I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

> when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

> my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

> swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

>

> So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

> overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

> fermented foods at all.

>

> My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

>

> I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

> tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

> attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

>

> I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

> what to tell you.

>

> Jody

> mom to -7 and -9

> SCD 1/03

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

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Guest guest

K had this problem and still does to an extent but, I still give her the

yogurt. She is starting not to gag on it so, maybe it's something that takes

a long time working at everyday. Just keep trying. It does get better. I

have the same problem. Jenn & K 9 months SCD

Re: No Dairy needed for some of us on SCD

> ,

>

> I completely and intensely dislike anything that has been fermented.

> The smell alone makes me feel sick, but putting it in my mouth

> triggers an almost instantaneous gag reflex.

>

> I don't know why. It has been this way my entire life. I remember

> when I was younger and had food poisoning very bad. The doctor told

> my mom to give me yogurt to eat. I even tried holding my nose and

> swallowing, but it was pointless and I threw up.

>

> So, I'm not sure what the issue is with me. Perhaps I just have an

> overly active gag reflex or for some reason my body just doesn't like

> fermented foods at all.

>

> My husband and kids LOVE all fermented foods.

>

> I would just be cautious if they bother you that much. I've never

> tried to force myself to eat anything fermented after a few failed

> attempts that resulted in me throwing up.

>

> I'm sorry. I don't think my answer was very helpful. I'm not sure

> what to tell you.

>

> Jody

> mom to -7 and -9

> SCD 1/03

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

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