Re: Introduction (very long)

June 3, 2002

Hi.

I can't begin to answer this narrative, but I just wondered why you

didn't list Noritate, which is a cousin of Metrocream and Metrogel.

I find it very helpful, whereas Metrocream irritates my skin,

apparently from the " inactive " ingredients. Have you tried

Noritate?

My 2 cents.

June 3, 2002

Hi.

I can't begin to answer this narrative, but I just wondered why you

didn't list Noritate, which is a cousin of Metrocream and Metrogel.

I find it very helpful, whereas Metrocream irritates my skin,

apparently from the " inactive " ingredients. Have you tried

Noritate?

My 2 cents.

June 3, 2002

Hi.

I can't begin to answer this narrative, but I just wondered why you

didn't list Noritate, which is a cousin of Metrocream and Metrogel.

I find it very helpful, whereas Metrocream irritates my skin,

apparently from the " inactive " ingredients. Have you tried

Noritate?

My 2 cents.

June 3, 2002

Since Photoderm didn't seem to work for you, Dr Nase's book and

members of this group seem to have good things to say about low-dose

Accutane. Esp for the acne components. Do a search in this group

on " accutane " , or on " doubleoh7_mi6 " (which is the member name of one

of the main proponents in this group for this treatment).

good luck

tommy

> Hi. Altho I've lurked here in the past, I'm new to the group, so

> here is my very long introduction. I finally decided to join

because

> I am so $@&*#!% frustrated I don't know what to do. I'm hoping some

> kind soul here has some advice and direction for me. I've had

> symptoms of pre-rosacea and mild rosacea for decades, since my

early

> 20's. I didn't put the pieces of the puzzle together until I

> suddenly progressed to moderate rosacea with ocular involvement in

my

> late 30's, about the same time the cea Society started running

> those PSAs on the radio. I've seen two excellent, highly-

recommended

> dermatologists, one Bitter-trained, one not, and now, 2 years and

> thousands of dollars later, I feel like I've been awarded a

complete

> set of the emperor's new clothes. My face is no better and quite

> possibly worse, as the disease seems to be progressing quite nicely

> despite all efforts. My primary triggers are heat, exercise,

> sunlight, hormones (I flare at ovulation and during menses) and

quite

> possibly carbs. My symptoms appeared to get better on a low carb

> diet and worse when I went off the Pill. I've had a complete auto-

> immune workup and everything came back normal. No one in my family

> has rosacea. Here is what I've tried and my responses:

>

> Derm #1 (not Bitter-trained)

> -RoC Broad Spectrum SPF 32 mineral based waterproof sunscreen – I

> loved this stuff. Naturally Roc stopped making it. Switched to...

> -Neutrogena Sensitive Skin SPF 15 sunscreen - OK but not

waterproof.

> Still using it.

> -Cover Girl Fresh Look or Max Factor FaceFinity foundation with SPF

> 15 mineral-based sunscreen - Still using this. Most foundations

and

> coversticks (Coverblend etc.) are too dark/orangy for my extremely

> fair complexion; I'm truly porcelain under all this red!

> -Wellbutrin anti-depressant. Still on this.

> -Claritin antihistamine, twice a day. Still on this.

> -Oral minocycline – significant reduction of papules and pustules

on

> face and scalp. Ocular symptoms markedly improved. Bright red

> patches disappeared, papules and pustules improved, but generalized

> redness and telangiectasia on cheeks, nose and chin remained the

> same. Price: intolerable GI distress, therefore my derm switched

me

> to...

> -Oral doxycycline – good response, no GI distress, but I began to

get

> a yeast infection every six to eight weeks. Derm added Diflucan

prn

> to the mix then had to wean me off altogether. Pustules, papules

and

> ocular symptoms gradually returned to baseline (but thank God the

> yeast infections stopped).

> -MetroCream – no response and possibly some worsening of the

redness

> and papules. Thinking I might be reacting to some of the inert

> ingredients my derm switched me to...

> -MetroGel - same results/no improvement. Discontinued.

> -Luxiq Foam (for scalp lesions) – no response. Discontinued

> (actually it expired).

> -DesOwen – v. promising at first then bad, nasty, evil, awful

rebound

> redness and bumpiness. Discontinued.

> -Plexion Face Wash – probably the most helpful product I ever put

on

> my face (which isn't saying much). Makes my face very soft and

helps

> a tiny bit with the redness and pustules. I'm still using this.

> -BenzoClin – recommended by my derm after I failed topical

> metronidazole. Day one – no problem. Day two – pinpoint allergic

> rash over my entire face, probably in response to the " benzo " as I

> used the " clin " in my teens to treat acne without a problem.

> Discontinued.

> -PhotoDerm – I was lead to believe this would eliminate the

> telangiectasia, make my pores appear smaller, and dry up my oily

> skin; why, it could even get rid of my freckles. And my what

lovely

> before/afters in the brochure. However, Derm #1 did not do the

> treatments himself (his non-nurse " aide " did them) and he charged

50%

> more than other docs in this area for the same procedure. That's

when

> I switched to a doctor that did the treatments herself and charged

> less to boot.

>

> Derm #2 (Bitter-trained)

> -PhotoDerm – Why I'm the perfect candidate for this treatment, she

> said. Six physician-conducted sessions and $2100 later, I still

have

> telangiectasia, papules, pustules, dripping-wet oily skin, freckles

> and big-ass pores. In short, no improvement and maybe a little

> worse. Waaaaa!

> -Topical 4% salicylic acid solution. Initially seemed to help with

> the pore problem and the redness, but after two months my skin

> started peeling. Discontinued, but I may try a 2% solution after

my

> current flare stops.

> -Tri-Luma cream (4% hydroquinone with fluocinolone acetonide and

> tretinoin) – to fade the freckles that PhotoDerm did NOT help.

> Although I am using it on only a very tiny area of my face, I am

very

> very hesitant to continue with it because of the steroid.

> -Doryx (extended-release oral doxycycline) – to treat what the

> PhotoDerm was obviously not treating. There is no doubt that oral

> antibiotics definitely help reduce (but not eliminate) my pustules,

> papules and bright red patches that are not telangiectasia.

However,

> this stuff and nearly all oral antibiotics interact with the Pill,

> which my ob/gyn recently put me back on to deal with new onset

> irregular periods (I'm hopeful the Pill will also help with the

> cyclical hormonal rosacea flares), and the GI distress and yeast

> infections are intolerable. Switched to...

> -Duricef (oral cephalosporin-class antibiotic) – ugh! the return of

> evil pustules, papules and bright red patches with the extra added

> benefits of oozing flaky flesh, diarrhea and abdominal cramps!

>

> I go back to see Derm #2 tomorrow. What's next? What's left to

> try? I feel like I've tried and failed everything. I hate

wearing

> all this makeup to cover everything up, it seems to emphasize every

> wrinkle, flake and pore, plus it all turns to a cakey mess 4 hours

> later because my skin's so oily. Microdermabrasion has been

> suggested but pardon me if the idea of having aluminum oxide

crystals

> blasted onto then sucked off my red, raw oozing skin sounds less

than

> appealing right now! I'm thinking about going back on the low carb

> diet although I know I can't live with that for the rest of my

life.

> I just wish I could tolerate the side effects of the oral

antibiotics

> because that's the only treatment that seems to help. Are there

> other **topical** antibiotics that can help rosacea besides

> metronidazole? Is there another treatment option I haven't

> explored? Or am I hopelessly SOL?

>

> If you've gotten this far - bless you!

June 3, 2002

Since Photoderm didn't seem to work for you, Dr Nase's book and

members of this group seem to have good things to say about low-dose

Accutane. Esp for the acne components. Do a search in this group

on " accutane " , or on " doubleoh7_mi6 " (which is the member name of one

of the main proponents in this group for this treatment).

good luck

tommy

> Hi. Altho I've lurked here in the past, I'm new to the group, so

> here is my very long introduction. I finally decided to join

because

> I am so $@&*#!% frustrated I don't know what to do. I'm hoping some

> kind soul here has some advice and direction for me. I've had

> symptoms of pre-rosacea and mild rosacea for decades, since my

early

> 20's. I didn't put the pieces of the puzzle together until I

> suddenly progressed to moderate rosacea with ocular involvement in

my

> late 30's, about the same time the cea Society started running

> those PSAs on the radio. I've seen two excellent, highly-

recommended

> dermatologists, one Bitter-trained, one not, and now, 2 years and

> thousands of dollars later, I feel like I've been awarded a

complete

> set of the emperor's new clothes. My face is no better and quite

> possibly worse, as the disease seems to be progressing quite nicely

> despite all efforts. My primary triggers are heat, exercise,

> sunlight, hormones (I flare at ovulation and during menses) and

quite

> possibly carbs. My symptoms appeared to get better on a low carb

> diet and worse when I went off the Pill. I've had a complete auto-

> immune workup and everything came back normal. No one in my family

> has rosacea. Here is what I've tried and my responses:

>

> Derm #1 (not Bitter-trained)

> -RoC Broad Spectrum SPF 32 mineral based waterproof sunscreen – I

> loved this stuff. Naturally Roc stopped making it. Switched to...

> -Neutrogena Sensitive Skin SPF 15 sunscreen - OK but not

waterproof.

> Still using it.

> -Cover Girl Fresh Look or Max Factor FaceFinity foundation with SPF

> 15 mineral-based sunscreen - Still using this. Most foundations

and

> coversticks (Coverblend etc.) are too dark/orangy for my extremely

> fair complexion; I'm truly porcelain under all this red!

> -Wellbutrin anti-depressant. Still on this.

> -Claritin antihistamine, twice a day. Still on this.

> -Oral minocycline – significant reduction of papules and pustules

on

> face and scalp. Ocular symptoms markedly improved. Bright red

> patches disappeared, papules and pustules improved, but generalized

> redness and telangiectasia on cheeks, nose and chin remained the

> same. Price: intolerable GI distress, therefore my derm switched

me

> to...

> -Oral doxycycline – good response, no GI distress, but I began to

get

> a yeast infection every six to eight weeks. Derm added Diflucan

prn

> to the mix then had to wean me off altogether. Pustules, papules

and

> ocular symptoms gradually returned to baseline (but thank God the

> yeast infections stopped).

> -MetroCream – no response and possibly some worsening of the

redness

> and papules. Thinking I might be reacting to some of the inert

> ingredients my derm switched me to...

> -MetroGel - same results/no improvement. Discontinued.

> -Luxiq Foam (for scalp lesions) – no response. Discontinued

> (actually it expired).

> -DesOwen – v. promising at first then bad, nasty, evil, awful

rebound

> redness and bumpiness. Discontinued.

> -Plexion Face Wash – probably the most helpful product I ever put

on

> my face (which isn't saying much). Makes my face very soft and

helps

> a tiny bit with the redness and pustules. I'm still using this.

> -BenzoClin – recommended by my derm after I failed topical

> metronidazole. Day one – no problem. Day two – pinpoint allergic

> rash over my entire face, probably in response to the " benzo " as I

> used the " clin " in my teens to treat acne without a problem.

> Discontinued.

> -PhotoDerm – I was lead to believe this would eliminate the

> telangiectasia, make my pores appear smaller, and dry up my oily

> skin; why, it could even get rid of my freckles. And my what

lovely

> before/afters in the brochure. However, Derm #1 did not do the

> treatments himself (his non-nurse " aide " did them) and he charged

50%

> more than other docs in this area for the same procedure. That's

when

> I switched to a doctor that did the treatments herself and charged

> less to boot.

>

> Derm #2 (Bitter-trained)

> -PhotoDerm – Why I'm the perfect candidate for this treatment, she

> said. Six physician-conducted sessions and $2100 later, I still

have

> telangiectasia, papules, pustules, dripping-wet oily skin, freckles

> and big-ass pores. In short, no improvement and maybe a little

> worse. Waaaaa!

> -Topical 4% salicylic acid solution. Initially seemed to help with

> the pore problem and the redness, but after two months my skin

> started peeling. Discontinued, but I may try a 2% solution after

my

> current flare stops.

> -Tri-Luma cream (4% hydroquinone with fluocinolone acetonide and

> tretinoin) – to fade the freckles that PhotoDerm did NOT help.

> Although I am using it on only a very tiny area of my face, I am

very

> very hesitant to continue with it because of the steroid.

> -Doryx (extended-release oral doxycycline) – to treat what the

> PhotoDerm was obviously not treating. There is no doubt that oral

> antibiotics definitely help reduce (but not eliminate) my pustules,

> papules and bright red patches that are not telangiectasia.

However,

> this stuff and nearly all oral antibiotics interact with the Pill,

> which my ob/gyn recently put me back on to deal with new onset

> irregular periods (I'm hopeful the Pill will also help with the

> cyclical hormonal rosacea flares), and the GI distress and yeast

> infections are intolerable. Switched to...

> -Duricef (oral cephalosporin-class antibiotic) – ugh! the return of

> evil pustules, papules and bright red patches with the extra added

> benefits of oozing flaky flesh, diarrhea and abdominal cramps!

>

> I go back to see Derm #2 tomorrow. What's next? What's left to

> try? I feel like I've tried and failed everything. I hate

wearing

> all this makeup to cover everything up, it seems to emphasize every

> wrinkle, flake and pore, plus it all turns to a cakey mess 4 hours

> later because my skin's so oily. Microdermabrasion has been

> suggested but pardon me if the idea of having aluminum oxide

crystals

> blasted onto then sucked off my red, raw oozing skin sounds less

than

> appealing right now! I'm thinking about going back on the low carb

> diet although I know I can't live with that for the rest of my

life.

> I just wish I could tolerate the side effects of the oral

antibiotics

> because that's the only treatment that seems to help. Are there

> other **topical** antibiotics that can help rosacea besides

> metronidazole? Is there another treatment option I haven't

> explored? Or am I hopelessly SOL?

>

> If you've gotten this far - bless you!

June 3, 2002

Since Photoderm didn't seem to work for you, Dr Nase's book and

members of this group seem to have good things to say about low-dose

Accutane. Esp for the acne components. Do a search in this group

on " accutane " , or on " doubleoh7_mi6 " (which is the member name of one

of the main proponents in this group for this treatment).

good luck

tommy

> Hi. Altho I've lurked here in the past, I'm new to the group, so

> here is my very long introduction. I finally decided to join

because

> I am so $@&*#!% frustrated I don't know what to do. I'm hoping some

> kind soul here has some advice and direction for me. I've had

> symptoms of pre-rosacea and mild rosacea for decades, since my

early

> 20's. I didn't put the pieces of the puzzle together until I

> suddenly progressed to moderate rosacea with ocular involvement in

my

> late 30's, about the same time the cea Society started running

> those PSAs on the radio. I've seen two excellent, highly-

recommended

> dermatologists, one Bitter-trained, one not, and now, 2 years and

> thousands of dollars later, I feel like I've been awarded a

complete

> set of the emperor's new clothes. My face is no better and quite

> possibly worse, as the disease seems to be progressing quite nicely

> despite all efforts. My primary triggers are heat, exercise,

> sunlight, hormones (I flare at ovulation and during menses) and

quite

> possibly carbs. My symptoms appeared to get better on a low carb

> diet and worse when I went off the Pill. I've had a complete auto-

> immune workup and everything came back normal. No one in my family

> has rosacea. Here is what I've tried and my responses:

>

> Derm #1 (not Bitter-trained)

> -RoC Broad Spectrum SPF 32 mineral based waterproof sunscreen – I

> loved this stuff. Naturally Roc stopped making it. Switched to...

> -Neutrogena Sensitive Skin SPF 15 sunscreen - OK but not

waterproof.

> Still using it.

> -Cover Girl Fresh Look or Max Factor FaceFinity foundation with SPF

> 15 mineral-based sunscreen - Still using this. Most foundations

and

> coversticks (Coverblend etc.) are too dark/orangy for my extremely

> fair complexion; I'm truly porcelain under all this red!

> -Wellbutrin anti-depressant. Still on this.

> -Claritin antihistamine, twice a day. Still on this.

> -Oral minocycline – significant reduction of papules and pustules

on

> face and scalp. Ocular symptoms markedly improved. Bright red

> patches disappeared, papules and pustules improved, but generalized

> redness and telangiectasia on cheeks, nose and chin remained the

> same. Price: intolerable GI distress, therefore my derm switched

me

> to...

> -Oral doxycycline – good response, no GI distress, but I began to

get

> a yeast infection every six to eight weeks. Derm added Diflucan

prn

> to the mix then had to wean me off altogether. Pustules, papules

and

> ocular symptoms gradually returned to baseline (but thank God the

> yeast infections stopped).

> -MetroCream – no response and possibly some worsening of the

redness

> and papules. Thinking I might be reacting to some of the inert

> ingredients my derm switched me to...

> -MetroGel - same results/no improvement. Discontinued.

> -Luxiq Foam (for scalp lesions) – no response. Discontinued

> (actually it expired).

> -DesOwen – v. promising at first then bad, nasty, evil, awful

rebound

> redness and bumpiness. Discontinued.

> -Plexion Face Wash – probably the most helpful product I ever put

on

> my face (which isn't saying much). Makes my face very soft and

helps

> a tiny bit with the redness and pustules. I'm still using this.

> -BenzoClin – recommended by my derm after I failed topical

> metronidazole. Day one – no problem. Day two – pinpoint allergic

> rash over my entire face, probably in response to the " benzo " as I

> used the " clin " in my teens to treat acne without a problem.

> Discontinued.

> -PhotoDerm – I was lead to believe this would eliminate the

> telangiectasia, make my pores appear smaller, and dry up my oily

> skin; why, it could even get rid of my freckles. And my what

lovely

> before/afters in the brochure. However, Derm #1 did not do the

> treatments himself (his non-nurse " aide " did them) and he charged

50%

> more than other docs in this area for the same procedure. That's

when

> I switched to a doctor that did the treatments herself and charged

> less to boot.

>

> Derm #2 (Bitter-trained)

> -PhotoDerm – Why I'm the perfect candidate for this treatment, she

> said. Six physician-conducted sessions and $2100 later, I still

have

> telangiectasia, papules, pustules, dripping-wet oily skin, freckles

> and big-ass pores. In short, no improvement and maybe a little

> worse. Waaaaa!

> -Topical 4% salicylic acid solution. Initially seemed to help with

> the pore problem and the redness, but after two months my skin

> started peeling. Discontinued, but I may try a 2% solution after

my

> current flare stops.

> -Tri-Luma cream (4% hydroquinone with fluocinolone acetonide and

> tretinoin) – to fade the freckles that PhotoDerm did NOT help.

> Although I am using it on only a very tiny area of my face, I am

very

> very hesitant to continue with it because of the steroid.

> -Doryx (extended-release oral doxycycline) – to treat what the

> PhotoDerm was obviously not treating. There is no doubt that oral

> antibiotics definitely help reduce (but not eliminate) my pustules,

> papules and bright red patches that are not telangiectasia.

However,

> this stuff and nearly all oral antibiotics interact with the Pill,

> which my ob/gyn recently put me back on to deal with new onset

> irregular periods (I'm hopeful the Pill will also help with the

> cyclical hormonal rosacea flares), and the GI distress and yeast

> infections are intolerable. Switched to...

> -Duricef (oral cephalosporin-class antibiotic) – ugh! the return of

> evil pustules, papules and bright red patches with the extra added

> benefits of oozing flaky flesh, diarrhea and abdominal cramps!

>

> I go back to see Derm #2 tomorrow. What's next? What's left to

> try? I feel like I've tried and failed everything. I hate

wearing

> all this makeup to cover everything up, it seems to emphasize every

> wrinkle, flake and pore, plus it all turns to a cakey mess 4 hours

> later because my skin's so oily. Microdermabrasion has been

> suggested but pardon me if the idea of having aluminum oxide

crystals

> blasted onto then sucked off my red, raw oozing skin sounds less

than

> appealing right now! I'm thinking about going back on the low carb

> diet although I know I can't live with that for the rest of my

life.

> I just wish I could tolerate the side effects of the oral

antibiotics

> because that's the only treatment that seems to help. Are there

> other **topical** antibiotics that can help rosacea besides

> metronidazole? Is there another treatment option I haven't

> explored? Or am I hopelessly SOL?

>

> If you've gotten this far - bless you!

June 3, 2002

Hi newcomer! I'm new too, although not new to rosacea. My own

problems started when I was in my teens and has moderate acne. I

started treatment and my acne cleared, so I stopped using the

medication. For the next 11 years or so, I continued having

minor/moderate acne. Two years ago, I decided enough was enough and I

went to see a doc who diagnosed me with adult acne. At the time I was

beginning to show some of the ocular/dermal manifestations of rosacea,

but my doc didn't notice and I had no info at the time. Regardless, I

started using glycolic acid, which for the first 6 weeks cleared up

the acne but soon led to extreme drying. I also have seb. derm., and

I wonder whether it was the glycolic acid which triggered my seb. derm.

Finally and after numerous treatments, I found a new doc who diagnosed

rosacea. Right now I'm using metrocream (to little effect) and

nizoral for my seb derm. I'm also starting to exhibit more serious

ocular maifestations which scare me crazy.

In some ways I feel fortunate that my three conditions: acne, rosacea

and seb derm are all minor, but having all three is a major

distraction from living my life the way I would like too. At least I

know that there are others like me, with treatment lists a mile long,

who can share some of the pain.

deryk

June 3, 2002