Re: First Dump!!-gall stone

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/2002 6:42:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

frwhlngrl@... writes:

> Can you explain more about a gall stone in the bile duct? On and off, since

> about a year after my surgery, I get these pains as well. Sometimes, they

> are so painful that I'm in tears. I even went to the hospital. Sometimes, I

> can deal with them but it really is horrible. My doctor thinks I may have

> stones in the bile duct. At the time of these pains, my liver counts are

> also really high. I went for an ultra sound but it took a couple of months

> to be seen. They saw nothing but we feel that the stone had passed at this

> time. I can go months without having this pain (like someone is sticking a

> large knife all the way through) or several times in a couple of weeks.

>

> What I'd like to know is 1)what causes this and 2)how can I avoid this?

> Thanks in advance,

> Dawn

> RYN distal

> 5-17-93

**********************************

Actually, I should have been more specific about the dumping on the egg roll

incident...I still have my gall bladder, but I had an ultrasound after

several of these painful incidents, and not a stone in sight. That's why I

said it wasn't my gall bladder. I never did go for a scope, though, in

search of a possible ulcer. I haven't had the pain in a while, so it is

still a mystery.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

> You can get a spasm of the common bile duct (that leads into where the

gall bladder was) from the grease or from something else unknown, or even a

gall stone in the duct, that can cause the same kind of severe, intense pain

similar to gall bladder pain, even though we no longer have a gall bladder.

Aren't we lucky?

> doc carolyn

******************************************************************

Can you explain more about a gall stone in the bile duct? On and off, since

about a year after my surgery, I get these pains as well. Sometimes, they

are so painful that I'm in tears. I even went to the hospital. Sometimes, I

can deal with them but it really is horrible. My doctor thinks I may have

stones in the bile duct. At the time of these pains, my liver counts are

also really high. I went for an ultra sound but it took a couple of months

to be seen. They saw nothing but we feel that the stone had passed at this

time. I can go months without having this pain (like someone is sticking a

large knife all the way through) or several times in a couple of weeks.

What I'd like to know is 1)what causes this and 2)how can I avoid this?

Thanks in advance,

Dawn

RYN distal

5-17-93

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone........

I had quite the experience today, hope you don't mind me talking about it

and you guys give me your opinion. I have Chronic Back Pain and lately have

had to take Roxicet and Soma together to get rid of the pain. Today i took

my meds about 10:00 A.M. and then about 11:30 A.M. i thought i was going to

die. Then it let up for about 1 hour and then it hit again. I rolled and

rolled around on the coutch and moaned and groaned. At that time the E.R.

sounded pretty good. Finieally about 2:00 P.M. i laid down and fell asleep,

and i feel pretty good now. WHAT HAPPENED? Was it meds or could it of been

something else. It's been 1 year since i've had surgery. I've had this

before but it wasn't this bad. And today the pain radiated around to my

back. Then when the pain subsided i kind of burned on the inside. Anyone

had this happen to them?

Tracey

Northern Minn

[Guest guest]

I don't have my gallbladder either.

Dawn

Re: First Dump!!-gall stone

In a message dated 11/24/2002 6:42:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

frwhlngrl@... writes:

Can you explain more about a gall stone in the bile duct? On and off, since

about a year after my surgery, I get these pains as well. Sometimes, they

are so painful that I'm in tears. I even went to the hospital. Sometimes, I

can deal with them but it really is horrible. My doctor thinks I may have

stones in the bile duct. At the time of these pains, my liver counts are

also really high. I went for an ultra sound but it took a couple of months

to be seen. They saw nothing but we feel that the stone had passed at this

time. I can go months without having this pain (like someone is sticking a

large knife all the way through) or several times in a couple of weeks.

What I'd like to know is 1)what causes this and 2)how can I avoid this?

Thanks in advance,

Dawn

RYN distal

5-17-93

**********************************

Actually, I should have been more specific about the dumping on the egg roll

incident...I still have my gall bladder, but I had an ultrasound after several

of these painful incidents, and not a stone in sight. That's why I said it

wasn't my gall bladder. I never did go for a scope, though, in search of a

possible ulcer. I haven't had the pain in a while, so it is still a mystery.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/25/2002 3:02:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

beaglette@... writes:

> I had an ultrasound last Thursday and I have yet to get the results from it

> (waiting on them today). Although, based on what Carolyn says, it seems

> that my ultrasound is going to be fruitless anyway.. ugh. I was told that

> normally what he does (in WLS patients) is inject the liver with a

> radioactive dye and take pictures of it. I'm pregnant, however, and he

> said to do this at this point would destroy my precious baby So, it's

> live with the pain-- ugh!

*********************************

, congratulations on your pregnancy! I think Doc Carolyn is right, she

did hit a nerve. That's interesting about the ultrasound, so maybe I won't

rule out stones just yet. Fortunately for me, I haven't had the pain in

quite a while, so if it was a stone, maybe it passed. Someone had suggested

writing down everything I had eaten for the past 24 hours whenever the pain

hits. Perhaps if you can connect it with a certain food it might help, but

alas, if only it were that easy.

in NJ

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

Just a guess: possible kidney stone. The fact that the pain went

away so quickly could mean that the stone passed through the ureter

and into your bladder to be expelled painlessly later on with

urination. Or, it could mean that it is poised somewhere upstream

and is ready to give a repeat performance when you least expect it.

Then again, it could be " none of the above. " But, just in case,

please consider overloading with water, as much as you can hold and

as often as you can drink it.

Best,

Steve

At 6:59 PM -0800 11/24/02, Jerry Frame wrote:

>I have Chronic Back Pain and lately have

>had to take Roxicet and Soma together to get rid of the pain. Today i took

>my meds about 10:00 A.M. and then about 11:30 A.M. i thought i was going to

>die. Then it let up for about 1 hour and then it hit again. I rolled and

>rolled around on the coutch and moaned and groaned. At that time the E.R.

>sounded pretty good. Finieally about 2:00 P.M. i laid down and fell asleep,

>and i feel pretty good now. WHAT HAPPENED? Was it meds or could it of been

>something else.

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>>Can you explain more about a gall stone in the bile duct? Sometimes,

they

are so painful that I'm in tears. I My doctor thinks I may have stones in the

bile duct. At the time of these pains, my liver counts are also really high.

What I'd like to know is 1)what causes this and 2)how can I avoid this?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Actually, I should have been more specific about the dumping on the

egg roll incident...I still have my gall bladder, but I had an ultrasound after

several of these painful incidents, and not a stone in sight.

>>>>>>>>> take Roxicet and Soma together then about 11:30 A.M. i thought i

was going to

die. I rolled and rolled around on the coutch and moaned and groaned. WHAT

HAPPENED? Was it meds or could it of been something else. I've had this before

but it wasn't this bad. And today the pain radiated around to my back. Then

when the pain subsided i kind of burned on the inside.

Hi All,

I think I hit a nerve! I wish I had all the answers on this one, boy do I!

As it has been explained to me, the duct that leads into the gall bladder (the

common bile duct) can fill with either sludge or a stone, or it can spasm

causing pain. The pain can go from mild to extreme, and can be " gall

baldder-ish " in nature. An ultrasound will not show anything (most likely)

because the common bile duct sits up too high for it to be picked up by the

ultrasound. In the non- bypassed patient, and ERCP would be done. We aren't

connected to that anymore. I have been told (by a general surgeon) that be can

have a procedure similar to it whereby the dye it inserted directly into the

duct and then imaged. I think it was called a TRCP, but I am not positive. (T

for trans).

The liver enzymes will always go up after one of these episodes and will

take 3-6 weeks to return to baseline because the spasm is coming from the liver.

I have no idea what causes this, or how to prevent it. Talk to your surgeon.

I just know when it starts, hold on cuz you are in for a bumpy ride. I would try

to see if you can get the TRCP done, and go from there. Sorry for that lack of

help here.

The similar pain occuring following the use of narcotic pain medication is

also not uncommon, and once it occurs, unfortunately, may occur with future pain

med use. It is because of spasm of the common bile duct. (It was initial

described with demerol). The pain you describe is so classic, I could have

pulled it out of a text book, or my husband could have described me after using

one Tylenol #3. This is scary because what do you do if you need a pain med,

suffer with the pain, or take it and risk possible worse right sided pain from

the pain med? I hope that knowing you are not alone helps, probably not,

but.....

doc carolyn just my opinion, of course

[Guest guest]

UGH!!

I am experiencing this now!

I had my gallbladder out in February '02 and just went to the doctor last week

(for the third time since February) about this horrible " gallbladder-like

attack " that I have been experiencing. It's miserable!

I had an ultrasound last Thursday and I have yet to get the results from it

(waiting on them today). Although, based on what Carolyn says, it seems that my

ultrasound is going to be fruitless anyway.. ugh. I was told that normally what

he does (in WLS patients) is inject the liver with a radioactive dye and take

pictures of it. I'm pregnant, however, and he said to do this at this point

would destroy my precious baby So, it's live with the pain-- ugh!

My sister is really into homeopathic things and tried to get me to do a liver

cleanse earlier in the year. I wish I would have done it. The only reason I

hesitated was due to the 1/2 cup of olive oil that she consumes at the end of

the cleanse. I figured I'd be sicker than a dog doing that. However, if I

could do it now, I would-- I just don't feel comfortable doing it during

pregnancy. She's had great results from the liver cleanse (it's pretty simple

and doesn't involve anything expensive or any special pills) and passes stones

regularly after doing the cleanse.

The moment after I give birth, I'm doing a liver cleanse to try and avoid

surgery. Ok, maybe not THE MOMENT after I give birth but certainly not long

after. Until then, I just deal with the pain and grin and bear it :-)

Warmly,

www.brandiland.com

before: 459 lbs (480 lbs at highest)

now: 198 lbs.

Hi All,

I think I hit a nerve! I wish I had all the answers on this one, boy do

I! As it has been explained to me, the duct that leads into the gall bladder

(the common bile duct) can fill with either sludge or a stone, or it can spasm

causing pain. The pain can go from mild to extreme, and can be " gall

baldder-ish " in nature. An ultrasound will not show anything (most likely)

because the common bile duct sits up too high for it to be picked up by the

ultrasound. In the non- bypassed patient, and ERCP would be done. We aren't

connected to that anymore. I have been told (by a general surgeon) that be can

have a procedure similar to it whereby the dye it inserted directly into the

duct and then imaged. I think it was called a TRCP, but I am not positive. (T

for trans).

The liver enzymes will always go up after one of these episodes and will

take 3-6 weeks to return to baseline because the spasm is coming from the liver.

I have no idea what causes this, or how to prevent it. Talk to your

surgeon. I just know when it starts, hold on cuz you are in for a bumpy ride. I

would try to see if you can get the TRCP done, and go from there. Sorry for that

lack of help here.

The similar pain occuring following the use of narcotic pain medication is

also not uncommon, and once it occurs, unfortunately, may occur with future pain

med use. It is because of spasm of the common bile duct. (It was initial

described with demerol). The pain you describe is so classic, I could have

pulled it out of a text book, or my husband could have described me after using

one Tylenol #3. This is scary because what do you do if you need a pain med,

suffer with the pain, or take it and risk possible worse right sided pain from

the pain med? I hope that knowing you are not alone helps, probably not,

but.....

doc carolyn just my opinion, of course

[Guest guest]

I think I hit a nerve! I wish I had all the answers on this one, boy do

I! As it has been explained to me, the duct that leads into the gall bladder

(the common bile duct) can fill with either sludge or a stone, or it can spasm

causing pain. The pain can go from mild to extreme, and can be " gall

baldder-ish " in nature. An ultrasound will not show anything (most likely)

because the common bile duct sits up too high for it to be picked up by the

ultrasound. In the non- bypassed patient, and ERCP would be done. We aren't

connected to that anymore. I have been told (by a general surgeon) that be can

have a procedure similar to it whereby the dye it inserted directly into the

duct and then imaged. I think it was called a TRCP, but I am not positive. (T

for trans).

The liver enzymes will always go up after one of these episodes and will

take 3-6 weeks to return to baseline because the spasm is coming from the liver.

I have no idea what causes this, or how to prevent it. Talk to your

surgeon. I just know when it starts, hold on cuz you are in for a bumpy ride. I

would try to see if you can get the TRCP done, and go from there. Sorry for that

lack of help here.

The similar pain occuring following the use of narcotic pain medication is

also not uncommon, and once it occurs, unfortunately, may occur with future pain

med use. It is because of spasm of the common bile duct. (It was initial

described with demerol). The pain you describe is so classic, I could have

pulled it out of a text book, or my husband could have described me after using

one Tylenol #3. This is scary because what do you do if you need a pain med,

suffer with the pain, or take it and risk possible worse right sided pain from

the pain med? I hope that knowing you are not alone helps, probably not,

but.....

doc carolyn just my opinion, of course

*************************************************************************

Thanks so much for the input. Knowing that it does occur with others is

helpful. Last year, when my family doc got so concerned about my high liver

counts and we didn't connect the pain with it, I must admit, I was a bit scared.

My surgeon told me is was not normal with WLS to have high liver counts.

Understanding why and what is going on makes it a bit easier. Not fun but

easier...

Dawn