what should stools look like?

[Guest guest]

,Please forgive me, but if you can tell what you have eaten, you really need to try to chew your food more thoroughly. I know this sounds like I am stating the obvious, but until we started SCD for my husband, our whole family consumed our food much too quickly. I found (through a semi-embarrassing moment with a friend) that properly chewed food is when you can no longer tell by the feel of it in your mouth, its original texture. My jaws actually used to get tired from chewing to masticate my food properly and that wasn't even tough stuff!. At this point, if you are snacking on whole nuts, you need to grind them with your teeth as well as it takes to make flour or it will can cause you problems--wind, irritation, etc.Amelia

[Guest guest]

Here is the most detailed description of stools I've seen. However, posting this

is not an endorsement of " fiber menace " or the author who is promoting his own

agenda. I do agree with some of his criticism of eating too much fiber though,

and promoting a healthy diet to achieve GI health.

http://www.fibermenace.com/constipation/normal_stools.html#transcript

PJ

> Sorry if you're eating while you read this....my movements are now formed, but

contain undigested foods - nuts and meat fibres especially. Does that mean that

these foods are doing me harm, and should I avoid them?

>

> If the stools are formed and regular (but still very urgent) does this mean

that diarrhoea has passed?

>

> And sorry....one more question - how do you know if a food disagrees with you?

Is the effect immediate and obvious on your bowels?

>

> Thanks again as usual for all the great help on this great site!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He sure had some weird opinions in there.

The basic charts are accurate, but I wouldn't buy all the load he is

selling there.

> Here is the most detailed description of stools I've seen. However,

> posting this is not an endorsement of " fiber menace " or the author

> who is promoting his own agenda. I do agree with some of his

> criticism of eating too much fiber though, and promoting a healthy

> diet to achieve GI health.

>

> http://www.fibermenace.com/constipation/normal_stools.html#transcript

>

> PJ

>

>

>

>> Sorry if you're eating while you read this....my movements are now

>> formed, but contain undigested foods - nuts and meat fibres

>> especially. Does that mean that these foods are doing me harm, and

>> should I avoid them?

As I said last night, you should avoid them until your system can

handle them.

They certainly are not helping you in any way by passing through

undigested,

probably are increasing symptoms.

>>

>> If the stools are formed and regular (but still very urgent) does

>> this mean that diarrhoea has passed?

Yes. It means you have urgency, not diarrhea.

>>

>> And sorry....one more question - how do you know if a food

>> disagrees with you? Is the effect immediate and obvious on your

>> bowels?

As I said last night, sometimes yes. And sometimes no. It can have

an immediate effect, or it

can take up to two-three days to figure out how it impacts.

There is a lot of trial and error in this system. It takes time to

know your

own system and also to become confident, in some casess,

in assessing which foods are problematic for you. Not all effects

are immediate.

Mara

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mara - the problem I have is knowing whether feeling worse is a

Herxheimer, or a genuine reaction. Presumably you have to feel relatively

stable before adding something so that you can gauge its effect?

> >

> >> Sorry if you're eating while you read this....my movements are now

> >> formed, but contain undigested foods - nuts and meat fibres

> >> especially. Does that mean that these foods are doing me harm, and

> >> should I avoid them?

>

> As I said last night, you should avoid them until your system can

> handle them.

> They certainly are not helping you in any way by passing through

> undigested,

> probably are increasing symptoms.

>

>

> >>

> >> If the stools are formed and regular (but still very urgent) does

> >> this mean that diarrhoea has passed?

>

> Yes. It means you have urgency, not diarrhea.

>

>

> >>

> >> And sorry....one more question - how do you know if a food

> >> disagrees with you? Is the effect immediate and obvious on your

> >> bowels?

>

> As I said last night, sometimes yes. And sometimes no. It can have

> an immediate effect, or it

> can take up to two-three days to figure out how it impacts.

>

> There is a lot of trial and error in this system. It takes time to

> know your

> own system and also to become confident, in some casess,

> in assessing which foods are problematic for you. Not all effects

> are immediate.

>

> Mara

>

[Guest guest]

> Thanks Mara - the problem I have is knowing whether feeling worse is

> a Herxheimer, or a genuine reaction. Presumably you have to feel

> relatively stable before adding something so that you can gauge its

> effect?

How far along are you? And what are you eating? And

what is your diagnosis again, etc.?

I'd add in a thick, hearty meat broth (chicken/beef/veal/ etc.)

and aim to have it at least

once a day for the mean while - its gelatinous qualities are excellent

for

healing the gut. This helps heal the gut and settle the gut

simultaneously.

If you notice anything going out undigested, take it out for a while or

figure out a way to cook it down further - like pureeing it finely,

mincing. As is this is not good for your symptoms, and you

are also deriving no nutritional benefit from it, so there is no

point to it.

As for not digesting meat fiber, I'd probably either try to

smoothify some of my meats for a bit or I would eat

ground meat - something which I've never had a problem with.

But that's just me.

I do great with commercial ground meat, but others on

the list do not, and some have to begin to grind their

own to get a good reaction - that's the kind of thing

that becomes trial and error for some people.

There are also some recipes on pecanbread for chicken

pancake objects - assuming you can eat eggs - this

might also help with digesting the meat and you can

do this kind of thing with fish as well. And if you play

with them a bit, spices, herbs, etc., they can be tasty.

Which particular symptoms are you trying to diagnose?

The problem is for many of us at the beginning there can

be confusion and overlap between symptoms and die off.

But still, IME, genuine bad or tricky reactions tend to trump die off

at the beginning of the diet and it is not always productive to

attempt to say that is all right because it is die off - so I should

continue it, whereas that one is not helpful. Because a lot

of it comes down to guesswork anyway.

Anyway, hth a bit more. It can be tricky and frustrating figuring

all this out in the beginning. It gets clearer over time.

Mara

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your very detailed reply -

My main symptoms are nervous/psychological with gut issues alongside and coming

on at the same time (21 years ago). I have loose, irregular and urgent stools,

and chronic itching around my rear end(!) I have long been aware that my

nervous symptoms are related to my gut, and the only thing that has ever made a

difference to my problems has been through addressing the gut. My problems

don't seem to fit any of the typical psychological diagnoses - and I've not had

any help from conventional mental health .

I began the diet 4 weeks ago. I didn't do the introduction phase as my

diarrhoea wasn't that intense and my stools were mainly formed. I'm now

thinking I should have done the intro phase after all. Basically all my foods

have been SCD legal, but I have been eating all of them straight off. I have

worked out that raisins and nuts don't help me much, and lentils too.

My progress has been as follows. For the first week I felt quite good. After 8

days I had the most enormous crash and felt worse than I have ever felt in my

life. I was pretty sure it was a die-off thing. I picked up again after 4 or 5

days, and then decided to add in a probiotic - VSL3. I went downhill again on

the VSL3, but stuck it out thinking it was die-off, however I noticed that when

I reduced the dose I felt better, and when I increased it I felt worse, and it

didn't clear after ten days, so I have stopped taking it. I have been off it

for 2 days, but I still feel pretty terrible!

Thanks for listening/reading (!) Any help is much appreciated.

>

> > Thanks Mara - the problem I have is knowing whether feeling worse is

> > a Herxheimer, or a genuine reaction. Presumably you have to feel

> > relatively stable before adding something so that you can gauge its

> > effect?

>

> How far along are you? And what are you eating? And

> what is your diagnosis again, etc.?

>

> I'd add in a thick, hearty meat broth (chicken/beef/veal/ etc.)

> and aim to have it at least

> once a day for the mean while - its gelatinous qualities are excellent

> for

> healing the gut. This helps heal the gut and settle the gut

> simultaneously.

>

> If you notice anything going out undigested, take it out for a while or

> figure out a way to cook it down further - like pureeing it finely,

> mincing. As is this is not good for your symptoms, and you

> are also deriving no nutritional benefit from it, so there is no

> point to it.

>

> As for not digesting meat fiber, I'd probably either try to

> smoothify some of my meats for a bit or I would eat

> ground meat - something which I've never had a problem with.

> But that's just me.

> I do great with commercial ground meat, but others on

> the list do not, and some have to begin to grind their

> own to get a good reaction - that's the kind of thing

> that becomes trial and error for some people.

>

> There are also some recipes on pecanbread for chicken

> pancake objects - assuming you can eat eggs - this

> might also help with digesting the meat and you can

> do this kind of thing with fish as well. And if you play

> with them a bit, spices, herbs, etc., they can be tasty.

>

> Which particular symptoms are you trying to diagnose?

>

> The problem is for many of us at the beginning there can

> be confusion and overlap between symptoms and die off.

>

> But still, IME, genuine bad or tricky reactions tend to trump die off

> at the beginning of the diet and it is not always productive to

> attempt to say that is all right because it is die off - so I should

> continue it, whereas that one is not helpful. Because a lot

> of it comes down to guesswork anyway.

>

> Anyway, hth a bit more. It can be tricky and frustrating figuring

> all this out in the beginning. It gets clearer over time.

>

> Mara

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Why don’t you start the diet over again and do it

right this time…with the Intro, then add one food at a time, keeping a

diary so that you can identify more easily what doesn’t work for you? I

had to start over after one year on the diet. It takes time to know our bodies

and what foods we can/cannot handle.

Cheers,

GERDS and chronic C.

SCD 19 mths-

My progress has been as follows. For the first week I felt

quite good. After 8 days I had the most enormous crash and felt worse than I

have ever felt in my life. I was pretty sure it was a die-off thing. I picked

up again after 4 or 5 days, and then decided to add in a probiotic - VSL3. I

went downhill again on the VSL3, but stuck it out thinking it was die-off,

however I noticed that when I reduced the dose I felt better, and when I

increased it I felt worse, and it didn't clear after ten days, so I have

stopped taking it. I have been off it for 2 days, but I still feel pretty

terrible!

Thanks for listening/reading (!) Any help is much appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your very detailed reply -My main symptoms are nervous/psychological with gut issues alongside and coming on at the same time (21 years ago). I have loose, irregular and urgent stools, and chronic itching around my rear end(!) I have long been aware that my nervous symptoms are related to my gut, and the only thing that has ever made a difference to my problems has been through addressing the gut. My problems don't seem to fit any of the typical psychological diagnoses - and I've not had any help from conventional mental health .I began the diet 4 weeks ago. I didn't do the introduction phase as my diarrhoea wasn't that intense and my stools were mainly formed. I'm now thinking I should have done the intro phase after all. Basically all my foods have been SCD legal, but I have been eating all of them straight off. I have worked out that raisins and nuts don't help me much, and lentils too.My progress has been as follows. For the first week I felt quite good. After 8 days I had the most enormous crash and felt worse than I have ever felt in my life. I was pretty sure it was a die-off thing. Yeah - almost definitely. I picked up again after 4 or 5 days, and then decided to add in a probiotic - VSL3. I went downhill again on the VSL3, but stuck it out thinking it was die-off, however I noticed that when I reduced the dose I felt better, and when I increased it I felt worse, and it didn't clear after ten days, so I have stopped taking it. I have been off it for 2 days, but I still feel pretty terrible!Well VSL is not legal on SCD anyway, and as you have in any casea singular gut/mind connection going on, it's probably best to remainas safe as you can with the probiotics. I'd start acidophilus. Either in capsule form or with yogurt. I'd also consider looking into LDN, which does a tremendousamount to boost mental health through helping to finessegood gut ecology. Have you had a yeast test done by a specialist? Or a stool testdone by Genova Diagnostics? You might be dealing with somecrazy strains. I would definitely start over by going on intro for a few days - you might be surprised to find what you can and cannottolerate. Also, intro is the best way to clean your system out -and get rid of a bunch of stuff - to start more freshly. Over time we see a lot of people who think they can just launch - that their symptoms aren't that bad - that they can just pickup in the middle - and unquestionably, while it is still a betterdiet than the one they've been on, most of these peopleend up starting over with intro - because that way they canfigure out where they stand the best and clear out what theystill haven't managed to figure out. And really, it is just 2-5days, so while it takes a bit of backbone, it is not that hard. Just eat a lot of hardy broth to keep yourself satiated. Also, there is a book called The Second Brain:A Groundbreaking New Understanding of Nervous Disorders of the Stomach and Intestine - about the connection between mind and gut - that you maywant to invest in:http://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain-Groundbreaking-Understanding-Disorders/dp/0060930721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1258577091 & sr=8-1Anyway, I hope something here proves helpful. MaraThanks for listening/reading (!) Any help is much appreciated.Thanks Mara - the problem I have is knowing whether feeling worse is a Herxheimer, or a genuine reaction. Presumably you have to feel relatively stable before adding something so that you can gauge its effect?How far along are you? And what are you eating? Andwhat is your diagnosis again, etc.?I'd add in a thick, hearty meat broth (chicken/beef/veal/ etc.)and aim to have it at leastonce a day for the mean while - its gelatinous qualities are excellent forhealing the gut. This helps heal the gut and settle the gutsimultaneously.If you notice anything going out undigested, take it out for a while orfigure out a way to cook it down further - like pureeing it finely,mincing. As is this is not good for your symptoms, and youare also deriving no nutritional benefit from it, so there is nopoint to it.As for not digesting meat fiber, I'd probably either try tosmoothify some of my meats for a bit or I would eatground meat - something which I've never had a problem with.But that's just me.I do great with commercial ground meat, but others onthe list do not, and some have to begin to grind theirown to get a good reaction - that's the kind of thingthat becomes trial and error for some people.There are also some recipes on pecanbread for chickenpancake objects - assuming you can eat eggs - thismight also help with digesting the meat and you cando this kind of thing with fish as well. And if you playwith them a bit, spices, herbs, etc., they can be tasty.Which particular symptoms are you trying to diagnose?The problem is for many of us at the beginning there canbe confusion and overlap between symptoms and die off.But still, IME, genuine bad or tricky reactions tend to trump die offat the beginning of the diet and it is not always productive toattempt to say that is all right because it is die off - so I shouldcontinue it, whereas that one is not helpful. Because a lotof it comes down to guesswork anyway.Anyway, hth a bit more. It can be tricky and frustrating figuringall this out in the beginning. It gets clearer over time.Mara------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hello Mara

Thanks again for taking the time to reply and I do find your advice very

helpful. I think that once I have stabilised a little I will do the intro diet

as you suggest. Is it OK to take the acidophilus/yoghurt while on the intro?

I had a CDST done with Great Smokies Laboratories around 5 years ago which

reported severe dysbiosis, no growth of bifido bacteria, and a couple of

parasites for good measure. I don't have it to hand so haven't got the precise

findings. They didn't find candida, but on a previous test it was found, and I

am pretty sure yeast is an issue.

> >>

> >>> Thanks Mara - the problem I have is knowing whether feeling worse is

> >>> a Herxheimer, or a genuine reaction. Presumably you have to feel

> >>> relatively stable before adding something so that you can gauge its

> >>> effect?

> >>

> >> How far along are you? And what are you eating? And

> >> what is your diagnosis again, etc.?

> >>

> >> I'd add in a thick, hearty meat broth (chicken/beef/veal/ etc.)

> >> and aim to have it at least

> >> once a day for the mean while - its gelatinous qualities are

> >> excellent

> >> for

> >> healing the gut. This helps heal the gut and settle the gut

> >> simultaneously.

> >>

> >> If you notice anything going out undigested, take it out for a

> >> while or

> >> figure out a way to cook it down further - like pureeing it finely,

> >> mincing. As is this is not good for your symptoms, and you

> >> are also deriving no nutritional benefit from it, so there is no

> >> point to it.

> >>

> >> As for not digesting meat fiber, I'd probably either try to

> >> smoothify some of my meats for a bit or I would eat

> >> ground meat - something which I've never had a problem with.

> >> But that's just me.

> >> I do great with commercial ground meat, but others on

> >> the list do not, and some have to begin to grind their

> >> own to get a good reaction - that's the kind of thing

> >> that becomes trial and error for some people.

> >>

> >> There are also some recipes on pecanbread for chicken

> >> pancake objects - assuming you can eat eggs - this

> >> might also help with digesting the meat and you can

> >> do this kind of thing with fish as well. And if you play

> >> with them a bit, spices, herbs, etc., they can be tasty.

> >>

> >> Which particular symptoms are you trying to diagnose?

> >>

> >> The problem is for many of us at the beginning there can

> >> be confusion and overlap between symptoms and die off.

> >>

> >> But still, IME, genuine bad or tricky reactions tend to trump die off

> >> at the beginning of the diet and it is not always productive to

> >> attempt to say that is all right because it is die off - so I should

> >> continue it, whereas that one is not helpful. Because a lot

> >> of it comes down to guesswork anyway.

> >>

> >> Anyway, hth a bit more. It can be tricky and frustrating figuring

> >> all this out in the beginning. It gets clearer over time.

> >>

> >> Mara

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Hello Mara

>

> Thanks again for taking the time to reply and I do find your advice

> very helpful. I think that once I have stabilised a little I will

> do the intro diet as you suggest. Is it OK to take the acidophilus/

> yoghurt while on the intro?

Yes - you can start with the yogurt or capsules immediately. It's

really powerful stuff, though,

start with a moderate amount until you are sure you are handling it.

>

> I had a CDST done with Great Smokies Laboratories around 5 years

> ago which reported severe dysbiosis, no growth of bifido bacteria,

> and a couple of parasites for good measure. I don't have it to hand

> so haven't got the precise findings.

Well, 5 years later - they would no longer be accurate in any case.

Did you do any antifungal/antibacterial therapy or followup after that

for treatment?

It's helpful to get a doctor who is familiar with those modes of

testing - someone

who is open to naturopathic practices.

You also may want to look at some natural antibacterials/antifungals,

like oil or oregano (oreganol),

garlic, olive leaf extract, grapeseed extract once you are a bit

further along in the diet and

past intro. Coconut oil can also be helpful.

> They didn't find candida, but on a previous test it was found, and I

> am pretty sure yeast is an issue.

Mara

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that Amelia - it's a timely reminder, because I know if i do that i

feel much better.

>

> ,

>

> Please forgive me, but if you can tell what you have eaten, you really need to

try to chew your food more thoroughly.  I know this sounds like I am stating the

obvious, but until we started SCD for my husband, our whole family consumed our

food much too quickly.  I found (through a semi-embarrassing moment with a

friend) that properly chewed food is when you can no longer tell by the feel of

it in your mouth, its original texture.  My jaws actually used to get tired from

chewing to masticate my food properly and that wasn't even tough stuff!.  At

this point, if you are snacking on whole nuts, you need to grind them with your

teeth as well as it takes to make flour or it will can cause you problems--wind,

irritation, etc.

>

> Amelia

>