Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 list members, deb is being censored on the subject of her experience with dr ren, regardless of what you all have been led to believe. about this i can be certain that i was not misled. i was misled, however, because i was led to believe that this was a place where people could speak freely, and a place where we would hold each other up through the good and the bad. sure, you've been there for people who were on their deathbeds, there with words of encouragement and prayers and that counts, it counts a lot. but it doesn't COST you anything. you say your prayers, make phone calls, send flowers, and then go on with your lives feeling good about what you've given to someone else. you haven't SPENT anything, you've GAINED and that's GREAT. i would never diminish the blessing of this kind of support! i cherish it! but now one of us needs support that isn't so convenient to give on an issue that makes some people uncomfortable. giving support in this case means putting your ass on the line for something, listening without judgment to the facts, putting down your defenses and putting your own issues on hold. and now that it costs, not everyone is willing to be so generous. we've had a few members at death's door and then had them recover with successful outcomes. had they died, we could have mourned their loss and then gotten back to living our lives. but what do you do with someone who's insides have been so devastatingly injured, someone who won't have a miraculous comeback or a tragic death? this case will haunt you, reminding of a way that things can go wrong that we don't want to think about. deb will never have what we all want, what we all are here struggling through and fighting for. she suffers everyday, PHYSICALLY suffers. this is a quote from deb describing her condition: 'They attempt to liken what occurred to me as a bad haircut, rather than the destruction of my functioning stomach. They never acknowledge the daily dumping I live with, the gastric pain, the right upper quad pain, the vomiting, postural hypotension, hypoglycemia nor do they acknowledge the potential long term side effects of this surgery, such as, gastric remnant cancer, esophageal cancer and depending on how much of my antrum remains, pancreatic cancer, just to name a few. So much for any kind of normal eating or quality of life...'. it is a real challenge to support someone to whom this has happened because rhetoric is not going to cut it in this case! and it seems when we are asked for more than rhetoric, when we need to be creative in our efforts to support someone, when we need to face the horror of what can happen on the table, we'd rather shut it off or run away. we love to talk about support, even when the going gets tough. well, the going doesn't get much tougher than this! where are you now? where are you when there will be no triumph over tragedy, at least the way we like so see it? i can almost hear the crickets. yes, this topic has dominated the list for a few days because it's a CRISIS. and this petition has been here because we are engaged in a DEBATE of this issue. a petition is a peaceful way to engage in such a debate. it hasn't stopped anyone from posting on other subjects. yet addressing this issue head on has people turning tail and running. why is it that THIS CRISIS makes people so uncomfortable that 'delete' isn't enough? that indicates to me that it's struck a nerve, and that's why those of us who are backing our peer are being told to shut up. the issue is censorship, and again, censorship is wielded like a threat. i believe the title of the mail was 'Petition topic stops now', that is if we'd like to maintain the ability to post at all. that won't stop me from speaking out on an important issue like censorship. and i'll get through my surgery with or without you. like it or not, this is on the table. the issue is censorship, and ignoring it won't make it go away. it will be there waiting until the next time people are so poorly differentiated that they feel threatened by others simply representing themselves. thank you to the people who had the courage to get behind a friend and voice their opinion on this unpopular issue. you've got guts!! i'm glad to know you. erika We, the undersigned, request that deb (ciar1) be removed from censored status and reinstated as a regular member of the group. One of the primary purposes of this group is to support it's members through good times and bad. If we can't count on one another during the most difficult of times then that severely diminishes the group's value. We need to be strong enough in ourselves to listen to our brothers and sisters when they reach out in pain without losing ourselves in it. The other primary purpose of this group is education. New members deserve to hear about both positive and negative outcomes of surgery and variety in our membership provides this balance. Deb has not only contributed her experience, but has contributed numerous unbiased educational posts that have been of great value to all of us. We need to continue to allow her to benefit us, as much as we need to continue to bring what each of us has to offer. Differences of opinion are not reason enough to shut out our members. We are a support group, and deb needs and deserves our support. She is a valuable member of this group and has given a lot to many members here. We want her back. 1) erika, eontheedge@... 2) Janice, jejjejjej@... 3) Jill in NY, JKHCC@... 4) Anita, rowanceleste@... 5) Liane French, lilifrench@... 6) rich, quaa714@... 7) joy, joyfrost@... 8) loriann, llist@... 9) , leigh6x@... 10) stella, serenn@... 11) Nick in Sage, sage@... 12) Dayle, hopingsoul@... 13) , definitemaybe@... 14) Eva, egrudin@... 15) Kathy, KStefanov@... 16) Betsy, bjahncke@... 17) denise, nsyncmom2001@... 18) Montgomery, marym@... 19) mary, waterlilys@... 20) ellen, beauby1022050943@... 21) denise in NY, slantdiva@... 22) true@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 BRAVO . How eloquent! We must remember that while our lives still go on and we get closer to our goals, Deb will never be OK. It's too bad people turned against her and told lies about her. It's all very sad. Jill K in NY 7 weeks post-op Dr. Gagner __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 I'll sign my name to this list. Beckki banned me from the list because I posted why I switched from to Rabkin. Nick in Sage was kind enough to fight for my cause over there and then quit that group as well. They don't want to hear anything negative about their " queen . " I think unless we have a free exchange of feeling, this group is worthless. > list members, > > deb is being censored on the subject of her experience with dr ren, > regardless of what you all have been led to believe. about this i can > be certain that i was not misled. > > i was misled, however, because i was led to believe that this was a > place where people could speak freely, and a place where we would hold > each other up through the good and the bad. sure, you've been there for > people who were on their deathbeds, there with words of encouragement > and prayers and that counts, it counts a lot. but it doesn't COST you > anything. you say your prayers, make phone calls, send flowers, and > then go on with your lives feeling good about what you've given to > someone else. you haven't SPENT anything, you've GAINED and that's > GREAT. i would never diminish the blessing of this kind of support! i > cherish it! but now one of us needs support that isn't so convenient to > give on an issue that makes some people uncomfortable. giving support in > this case means putting your ass on the line for something, listening > without judgment to the facts, putting down your defenses and putting > your own issues on hold. and now that it costs, not everyone is willing > to be so generous. > > we've had a few members at death's door and then had them recover with > successful outcomes. had they died, we could have mourned their loss > and then gotten back to living our lives. but what do you do with > someone who's insides have been so devastatingly injured, someone who > won't have a miraculous comeback or a tragic death? this case will > haunt you, reminding of a way that things can go wrong that we don't > want to think about. > > deb will never have what we all want, what we all are here struggling > through and fighting for. she suffers everyday, PHYSICALLY suffers. > this is a quote from deb describing her condition: 'They attempt to > liken what occurred to me as a bad haircut, rather than the destruction > of my functioning stomach. They never acknowledge the daily dumping I > live with, the gastric pain, the right upper quad pain, the vomiting, > postural hypotension, hypoglycemia nor do they acknowledge the potential > long term side effects of this surgery, such as, gastric remnant cancer, > esophageal cancer and depending on how much of my antrum remains, > pancreatic cancer, just to name a few. So much for any kind of normal > eating or quality of life...'. it is a real challenge to support > someone to whom this has happened because rhetoric is not going to cut > it in this case! and it seems when we are asked for more than rhetoric, > when we need to be creative in our efforts to support someone, when we > need to face the horror of what can happen on the table, we'd rather > shut it off or run away. we love to talk about support, even when the > going gets tough. well, the going doesn't get much tougher than this! > where are you now? where are you when there will be no triumph over > tragedy, at least the way we like so see it? i can almost hear the > crickets. > > yes, this topic has dominated the list for a few days because it's a > CRISIS. and this petition has been here because we are engaged in a > DEBATE of this issue. a petition is a peaceful way to engage in such a > debate. it hasn't stopped anyone from posting on other subjects. yet > addressing this issue head on has people turning tail and running. why > is it that THIS CRISIS makes people so uncomfortable that 'delete' isn't > enough? that indicates to me that it's struck a nerve, and that's why > those of us who are backing our peer are being told to shut up. the > issue is censorship, and again, censorship is wielded like a threat. i > believe the title of the mail was 'Petition topic stops now', that is if > we'd like to maintain the ability to post at all. that won't stop me > from speaking out on an important issue like censorship. and i'll get > through my surgery with or without you. > > like it or not, this is on the table. the issue is censorship, and > ignoring it won't make it go away. it will be there waiting until the > next time people are so poorly differentiated that they feel threatened > by others simply representing themselves. > > thank you to the people who had the courage to get behind a friend and > voice their opinion on this unpopular issue. you've got guts!! i'm > glad to know you. > > erika > > > > We, the undersigned, request that deb (ciar1) be removed from censored > status and reinstated as a regular member of the group. One of the > primary purposes of this group is to support it's members through good > times and bad. If we can't count on one another during the most > difficult of times then that severely diminishes the group's value. > We need to be strong enough in ourselves to listen to our brothers > and sisters when they reach out in pain without losing ourselves in it. > > The other primary purpose of this group is education. New members > deserve to hear about both positive and negative outcomes of surgery > and variety in our membership provides this balance. Deb has not only > contributed her experience, but has contributed numerous unbiased > educational posts that have been of great value to all of us. We need > to continue to allow her to benefit us, as much as we need to continue > to bring what each of us has to offer. > > Differences of opinion are not reason enough to shut out our members. > We are a support group, and deb needs and deserves our support. > She is a valuable member of this group and has given a lot to many > members here. We want her back. > > 1) erika, eontheedge@e... > 2) Janice, jejjejjej@y... > 3) Jill in NY, JKHCC@a... > 4) Anita, rowanceleste@y... > 5) Liane French, lilifrench@e... > 6) rich, quaa714@y... > 7) joy, joyfrost@h... > 8) loriann, llist@c... > 9) , leigh6x@j... > 10) stella, serenn@b... > 11) Nick in Sage, sage@i... > 12) Dayle, hopingsoul@a... > 13) , definitemaybe@h... > 14) Eva, egrudin@y... > 15) Kathy, KStefanov@a... > 16) Betsy, bjahncke@b... > 17) denise, nsyncmom2001@y... > 18) Montgomery, marym@a... > 19) mary, waterlilys@a... > 20) ellen, beauby1022050943@a... > 21) denise in NY, slantdiva@h... > 22) true@e... > 23) donnabert@... 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Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 In a message dated 5/24/01 11:46:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, donnabert@... writes: << > > We, the undersigned, request that deb (ciar1) be removed from censored > status and reinstated as a regular member of the group. One of the > primary purposes of this group is to support it's members through good > times and bad. If we can't count on one another during the most > difficult of times then that severely diminishes the group's value. > We need to be strong enough in ourselves to listen to our brothers > and sisters when they reach out in pain without losing ourselves in it. > > The other primary purpose of this group is education. New members > deserve to hear about both positive and negative outcomes of surgery > and variety in our membership provides this balance. Deb has not only > contributed her experience, but has contributed numerous unbiased > educational posts that have been of great value to all of us. We need > to continue to allow her to benefit us, as much as we need to continue > to bring what each of us has to offer. > > Differences of opinion are not reason enough to shut out our members. > We are a support group, and deb needs and deserves our support. > She is a valuable member of this group and has given a lot to many > members here. We want her back. > > 1) erika, eontheedge@e... > 2) Janice, jejjejjej@y... > 3) Jill in NY, JKHCC@a... > 4) Anita, rowanceleste@y... > 5) Liane French, lilifrench@e... > 6) rich, quaa714@y... > 7) joy, joyfrost@h... > 8) loriann, llist@c... > 9) , leigh6x@j... > 10) stella, serenn@b... > 11) Nick in Sage, sage@i... > 12) Dayle, hopingsoul@a... > 13) , definitemaybe@h... > 14) Eva, egrudin@y... > 15) Kathy, KStefanov@a... > 16) Betsy, bjahncke@b... > 17) denise, nsyncmom2001@y... > 18) Montgomery, marym@a... > 19) mary, waterlilys@a... > 20) ellen, beauby1022050943@a... > 21) denise in NY, slantdiva@h... > 22) true@e... > 23) donnabert@... 24) captjoe3@... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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