a few questions

[Guest guest]

Hi Pilsner (I'm an ale person myself, but do enjoy stout as well),

Sounds good that you got 3 out of 4 orthos to recommend that

particular surgeon.

You'll find good lists of questions to ask the surgeon on the

geocities site at http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

I didn't need surgery to widen my upper as my ortho was able to do it

non-surgically without splitting the palate (using an ALF appliance).

I always think those SARPE with the key-turning devices are medieval,

as does my ortho. But it's common to do either SARPE or segment, so

you can certainly ask your surgeon about it. Either one is do-able, I

don't know the advantages or disadvantages of either myself.

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

consults

> with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

All 4

> say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower jaw

> back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> recolection of having had removed?

>

> One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

ODs

> I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

>

> Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming this

is

> what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a SARPE

> and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and cons

to

> either?

>

> 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

>

> 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As much

> as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the need

> for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

>

> Thanks.

>

> (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

Hi Pilsner (I'm an ale person myself, but do enjoy stout as well),

Sounds good that you got 3 out of 4 orthos to recommend that

particular surgeon.

You'll find good lists of questions to ask the surgeon on the

geocities site at http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

I didn't need surgery to widen my upper as my ortho was able to do it

non-surgically without splitting the palate (using an ALF appliance).

I always think those SARPE with the key-turning devices are medieval,

as does my ortho. But it's common to do either SARPE or segment, so

you can certainly ask your surgeon about it. Either one is do-able, I

don't know the advantages or disadvantages of either myself.

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

consults

> with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

All 4

> say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower jaw

> back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> recolection of having had removed?

>

> One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

ODs

> I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

>

> Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming this

is

> what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a SARPE

> and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and cons

to

> either?

>

> 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

>

> 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As much

> as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the need

> for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

>

> Thanks.

>

> (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

You said that your upper needs to come forward, right? Well, as far

as I know they can't do forward or backward movement with SARPE, only

with Lefort (the horizontal segmentation). While they are doing the

horizontal segmentation, I think they could also do the vertical

segmentation, where they position the 3 (not sure if it's necessarily

3) pieces of your pallate so that they become wider. Sounds nasty

huh! I was fortunate enough not to have to do Lefort, I had

the " medieval device " as calls it. I had the SARPE surgery

where they make some cuts (but don't cut all the way through) in

order to be able to activate the expander. After a week or so I

started expanding for about a week and the device came out after 3

months. Looking back I can't believe how quickly it went, and that is

the advantage I think over 's ALF appliance, mine was in much

shorter! I am now 4,5 months post-op of SARPE, lower advancement and

genio (did all of that together).

By the way there are surgeons that prefer to have the pallate widened

first with SARPE and later do the Lefort to do the forward movement

in your case. You really have to check with your surgeon what he

prefers, could be for example that you might need too much widening

for it to be done with the expander or something. Ask your surgeon!

Nathalie

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

> consults

> > with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

> All 4

> > say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> > pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower

jaw

> > back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> > recolection of having had removed?

> >

> > One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> > x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> > free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

> ODs

> > I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> > surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> > weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

> >

> > Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> > 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> > segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming

this

> is

> > what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a

SARPE

> > and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and

cons

> to

> > either?

> >

> > 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

> >

> > 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> > ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As

much

> > as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the

need

> > for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

You said that your upper needs to come forward, right? Well, as far

as I know they can't do forward or backward movement with SARPE, only

with Lefort (the horizontal segmentation). While they are doing the

horizontal segmentation, I think they could also do the vertical

segmentation, where they position the 3 (not sure if it's necessarily

3) pieces of your pallate so that they become wider. Sounds nasty

huh! I was fortunate enough not to have to do Lefort, I had

the " medieval device " as calls it. I had the SARPE surgery

where they make some cuts (but don't cut all the way through) in

order to be able to activate the expander. After a week or so I

started expanding for about a week and the device came out after 3

months. Looking back I can't believe how quickly it went, and that is

the advantage I think over 's ALF appliance, mine was in much

shorter! I am now 4,5 months post-op of SARPE, lower advancement and

genio (did all of that together).

By the way there are surgeons that prefer to have the pallate widened

first with SARPE and later do the Lefort to do the forward movement

in your case. You really have to check with your surgeon what he

prefers, could be for example that you might need too much widening

for it to be done with the expander or something. Ask your surgeon!

Nathalie

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

> consults

> > with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

> All 4

> > say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> > pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower

jaw

> > back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> > recolection of having had removed?

> >

> > One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> > x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> > free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

> ODs

> > I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> > surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> > weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

> >

> > Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> > 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> > segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming

this

> is

> > what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a

SARPE

> > and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and

cons

> to

> > either?

> >

> > 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

> >

> > 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> > ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As

much

> > as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the

need

> > for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

Look in the links here, and in the files, and on oss2.

Fiddlesticks' geocities site (look in the links again) has a list of

FAQs for surgeons, and you may find some in there that you want to

know.

Cammie

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

consults

> with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

All 4

> say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower jaw

> back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> recolection of having had removed?

>

> One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

ODs

> I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

>

> Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming this

is

> what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a SARPE

> and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and cons

to

> either?

>

> 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

>

> 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As much

> as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the need

> for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

>

> Thanks.

>

> (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

Look in the links here, and in the files, and on oss2.

Fiddlesticks' geocities site (look in the links again) has a list of

FAQs for surgeons, and you may find some in there that you want to

know.

Cammie

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm considering taking the leap for an underbite. I've done

consults

> with 4 different Orthodontists (they were free - what the heck).

All 4

> say the same thing: the upper jaw needs to come forward, and the

> pallet is too narrow. All these years I was thinking " move lower jaw

> back " . ALSO: apparently I'm missing 2 bicuspids, which I have no

> recolection of having had removed?

>

> One of the ODs (my #1 if I take the leap) did multiple kinds of

> x-rays, panorex, a load of pictures, and even made molds - all for

> free! He knows the oral surgeon (highly recommended by 3 of the 4

ODs

> I saw) and is supposed to have had a " lunch consultation " with the

> surgeon to discuss my case prior to my appointment with him in 2

> weeks. So far everything seems good - almost TOO good.

>

> Couple things I'd like to know befor meeting with the surgon:

> 1. What's the difference between a SARPE and having the upper

> segmented and expanded during the leFort surgery (I'm assuming this

is

> what he'll do). I've seen messages here from people who had a SARPE

> and then some months later the " rest " of the surgery. Pros and cons

to

> either?

>

> 2. what are the key things I should ask Dr. Sawbones?

>

> 3. I would also love to hear from others who have had ONLY UPPER

> ADVANCEMENT AND WIDENING about their particular experiences. As much

> as I've enjoyed this board - I'm at the point where I feel the need

> for " project specific " information, if you know what I mean.

>

> Thanks.

>

> (can also e-mail me direct if you want at pilsner_porterstout@y...

[Guest guest]

FAB is Foot Abduction Brace...(I think hehehe) The same thing as

DBB, just another way of saying it.

Atypical CF is anything that differs from a " typical " CF..TA-DA!

What a great answer, I know. Ava doesn't have atypical but from what

I've read on here, it's usually diagnosed by a lateral crease on the

sole of the foot and the foot drawing up into an upside-down " u "

shape...some of the atyp foot moms can probably help you better.

As for the relapses, as far as I know or have gathered, the DBB with

regular religious use will HELP prevent relapses, the relapse rate

is very small. But there is a SMALL percentage that can & will have

a relapse even with the regular DBB use. But if you just continue

using it for as many hours as needed you can rest assured that

you're doing all you can to prevent a relapse.

HTH!

, mommy of:

Guinevere, on, Ava 8/4/04 right CF DBB 23/7 (less than a month

to go!!!)

[Guest guest]

Hi Corrina, when I emailed pictures of 's feet to Dr.

Ponseti he thought she had Atypical feet. What he wrote to me was

" has what we call atypical or complex clubfoot which is

present in about 2% of all clubfeet. THese feet are short, stiff,

stubby and difficult to treat in the Markell shoes. "

But after he saw her she did not have atypical feet after all

although we did switch to the shoes and is doing wonderful

in them.

I know what you mean about the relapse, that scares me too.

Dr.Ponseti when he wrote said had relapsed but when we saw

him turns out her foot had never been corrected to begin with. So

just have him wear the dbb faithfully and everything should turn out

just fine!'

and

BL CF 12/16/03

s 23/7

>

> Hi everybody, I was wondering what FAB is? I know what dbb is but

> cannot figure out FAB.. Also I have seen posts on atypical

clubfoot,

> what makes them atypical? My son who has been in the shoes for 3

> weeks, had a check up yesterday and he got a good report, he said

his

> foot looks good. But reading about these relapses scares me, I

> thought once the foot was in the correct postion it would be set

> there. So does wearing the brace only at night after the 3 months

> 23/7 help prevent the relapse or can it still happen with it? I

know

> I should ask my doc about these questions but really I take more

from

> people's answers that have personally gone through it.....

> Thank you so much

> Corrina from Ohio

> Son Gabe 3 months old, right clubfoot,dbb 23/7 3 weeks into the 3

> months....

[Guest guest]

Corrina,

As long as your sons foot has been well corrected and he continues to

wear the brace as prescribed by your doctor you shouldn't have to

worry. I believe there is only a very small percent of children who

relapse while still in the DBB/FAB (sorry to bring up the old term

DBB, I haven't been on the group for quite some time and forgot it

was now referred to as the FAB, Ooops! :-) By the way DBB stands for

Dennis Brown Bar (which is the same thing as the FAB, Foot Abduction

Brace) but I believe the doctors prefer FAB these days. I know Dr.

Ponseti had once said he thought DBB was a little out dated.

Anyway, once you get into a routine with the brace and time passes

believe me, it becomes so normal, just like brushing your teeth at

night before bed. You forget that it is actually something that once

used to be such an ordeal.

I think the best advice I ever got was not to let 's clubfoot

treatment overshadow all the wonderful other things that go on in

babyhood and as toddlers and for us now as a preschooler soon to be a

kindergartener! Because once you get to the point we are at now you

realize how even though they had to go though a lot in the beginning

and the treatment for clubfoot was not a quick fix but really a long

term effort between doctor and parents, I would have hated to look

back and realize I had only focussed on the one area and missed all

the rest because of worry. I'm glad I listened to that advice because

has had all the same fun and enjoyed all the same things as her

big sister (who is turning 8 on Saturday) except maybe footie pajamas!

Take Care,

Holly and

>

> Hi everybody, I was wondering what FAB is? I know what dbb is but

> cannot figure out FAB.. Also I have seen posts on atypical

clubfoot,

> what makes them atypical? My son who has been in the shoes for 3

> weeks, had a check up yesterday and he got a good report, he said

his

> foot looks good. But reading about these relapses scares me, I

> thought once the foot was in the correct postion it would be set

> there. So does wearing the brace only at night after the 3 months

> 23/7 help prevent the relapse or can it still happen with it? I

know

> I should ask my doc about these questions but really I take more

from

> people's answers that have personally gone through it.....

> Thank you so much

> Corrina from Ohio

> Son Gabe 3 months old, right clubfoot,dbb 23/7 3 weeks into the 3

> months....

[Guest guest]

-Hi,

I know that FAB means " foot abduction brace " , but I am not sure

about the atypical or if relapes happen with shoes on. I like your

questions and will be looking at the responses you get. We are at

the same stage with our son.

Jeanne

- In nosurgery4clubfoot , " celestine843 "

wrote:

>

> Hi everybody, I was wondering what FAB is? I know what dbb is but

> cannot figure out FAB.. Also I have seen posts on atypical

clubfoot,

> what makes them atypical? My son who has been in the shoes for 3

> weeks, had a check up yesterday and he got a good report, he said

his

> foot looks good. But reading about these relapses scares me, I

> thought once the foot was in the correct postion it would be set

> there. So does wearing the brace only at night after the 3 months

> 23/7 help prevent the relapse or can it still happen with it? I

know

> I should ask my doc about these questions but really I take more

from

> people's answers that have personally gone through it.....

> Thank you so much

> Corrina from Ohio

> Son Gabe 3 months old, right clubfoot,dbb 23/7 3 weeks into the 3

> months....

[Guest guest]

I am not sure about " typical " clubfeet, but with an atypical clubfoot a relapse

CAN happen with the shoes on - sometimes even with the s because an

atypical clubfoot just wants to relapse more tnan others, I guess. I only know

of one case (on this board) where an atypical cf relapsed in the s, but

it can happen.

I just updated my site. It is definitely not complete, but here is a link to

what I have so far on the FAQ page. It explains what atypical clubfoot is.

http://adifferentfoot.freeservers.com/about.html

Angel

Re: a few questions

-Hi,

I know that FAB means " foot abduction brace " , but I am not sure

about the atypical or if relapes happen with shoes on. I like your

questions and will be looking at the responses you get. We are at

the same stage with our son.

Jeanne

- In nosurgery4clubfoot , " celestine843 "

wrote:

>

> Hi everybody, I was wondering what FAB is? I know what dbb is but

> cannot figure out FAB.. Also I have seen posts on atypical

clubfoot,

> what makes them atypical? My son who has been in the shoes for 3

> weeks, had a check up yesterday and he got a good report, he said

his

> foot looks good. But reading about these relapses scares me, I

> thought once the foot was in the correct postion it would be set

> there. So does wearing the brace only at night after the 3 months

> 23/7 help prevent the relapse or can it still happen with it? I

know

> I should ask my doc about these questions but really I take more

from

> people's answers that have personally gone through it.....

> Thank you so much

> Corrina from Ohio

> Son Gabe 3 months old, right clubfoot,dbb 23/7 3 weeks into the 3

> months....

[Guest guest]

I I have a few questions: I am looking for a knife sharpener,

looked on Amazon, they have so many choices, anyone has a recommendation. I'd like to go not too expensive.What about food to store in case of an earthquake (I live in SF/Bay Area): I thought of cans of tuna, bottles of juice. Any other

idea?I am still not clear on apple cider. Found at Whole food apple cider that is pasteurized and they say has only organic apple in it. However it keeps even if not refrigerated. I seem to be doing OK with it. how do I access the archives ?Very grateful for this diet and for all the postings. This group of great people is such an incredible support. Maybe some day I'll be participating more actively.. Claude (57)CD 2.5 yearsSCD 5 monthsLDN 5 months6 Asacol/day

[Guest guest]

You may try looking at Bed Bath and Beyond if you have them. They usually have good options plus there are always coupons! When I worked in the restaurant it seemed that the quality of the knife depended more than the sharpener. I would get one that looks sturdy and sharpen the knives on a regular basis. You can damage your knives by using them when they are dull.I eat Fruit Leather strips...its like a fruit roll up, but organic and SDC friendly. They would store well. Whole Foods carries them. Nuts would also be good. They can be frozen. I I have a few questions: I am looking for a knife sharpener, looked on Amazon, they have so many choices, anyone has a recommendation. I'd like to go not too expensive.What about food to store in case of an earthquake (I live in SF/Bay Area): I thought of cans of tuna, bottles of juice. Any other idea?I am still not clear on apple cider. Found at Whole food apple cider that is pasteurized and they say has only organic apple in it. However it keeps even if not refrigerated. I seem to be doing OK with it. how do I access the archives ?Very grateful for this diet and for all the postings. This group of great people is such an incredible support. Maybe some day I'll be participating more actively.. Claude (57)CD 2.5 yearsSCD 5 monthsLDN 5 months6 Asacol/day=

[Guest guest]

maybe pecan butter - they last on the shelf for months in the store- mine's in

the fridge normally but maybe in a glass jar???/ or a bag of pecans???

eileen 21 months scd

>

>

> I I have a few questions: 

>

> I am looking for a knife sharpener, looked on Amazon, they have so many

choices, anyone has a recommendation. I'd like to go not too expensive.

>

> What about food to store in case of an earthquake (I live in SF/Bay Area): I

thought of cans of tuna, bottles of juice. Any other idea?

> I am still not clear on apple cider. Found at Whole food apple cider that is

pasteurized and they say has only organic apple in it. However it keeps even if

not refrigerated. I seem to be doing OK with it. 

> how do I access the archives ?

> Very grateful for this diet and for all the postings. This group of great

people is such an incredible support. Maybe some day I'll be participating more

actively.. Claude (57)CD 2.5 yearsSCD 5 monthsLDN 5 months6 Asacol/day

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Claude,

 

> I am looking for a knife sharpener, looked on Amazon, they have so many

choices, anyone has a recommendation. I'd like to go not too expensive.

Depends on what you need.

You can get a stone for sharpening..

You can get a one of those rod things and then once a year send it in for

sharpening.

Or you could get one of those track things..

Really depends on the types of knives you have?

> What about food to store in case of an earthquake (I live in SF/Bay Area): I

thought of cans of tuna, bottles of juice. Any other idea?

> I am still not clear on apple cider. Found at Whole food apple cider that is

pasteurized and they say has only organic apple in it. However it keeps even if

not refrigerated. I seem to be doing OK with it.

Canned fish is great..

Down the line you could have nuts and coconut shreds.

Maybe some of the people in Hurricane ville have more suggestions?

As for the cider, is it local?

Is it opaque?

 

> how do I access the archives ?

> Very grateful for this diet and for all the postings. This group of great

people is such an incredible support. Maybe some day I'll be participating more

actively.. Claude (57)CD 2.5 yearsSCD 5 monthsLDN 5 months6 Asacol/day

Yahoo is messed up.. so some of the archives you can access some you can't. You

can do a search with key words in the search box. You may or may not have info

come up. In general Yahoo is fixing this.. But our archives on this group are

very disorganized anyway- so it's not the funnest experience.

It's great to visit the various SCD websites and just ask questions here.. we're

a friendly group.. so most stuff will get answered.

Jodi

[Guest guest]

Some people live in hurricane zones, icy weather, earthquakes etc. so we have talked about it on-list a few times.  I just don't know where the file is if one was made.  A few ideas though and a dehydrator would come in handy if possible for crackers, fruit, vegetables, meat, etc. but I don't have specifics or recipes.  Easily available items are below.

 

six packs of 100% Welche's grape juice

sardines or mackarel or tuna with nothing added

bottled water

Marantha's nut butter if tolerated or homemade

apples and hard cheeses if you can tolerate

Dole pineapple and.or peaches packed in it's own juices if you can find it.  I have not been able to find it lately at the store so I'm not sure if a change has been made

legal tomato juice in the can

 

Marilyn may have recipes for beef jerky and/or sausage.

 

If you get access to ice, a cooler and/or a grill, it will make it easier to keep acidolpholus caps cold and boil water for yogurt, keep starter cold or to cook what's in the freezer (I live in a hurricane zone so I'm not sure how that would work in earthquakes).

 

LED lights from a camping store work great so you can get around if the power is out.  Batteries or hand-held cranks for fans, radios, etc.

 

Marilyn may have a file for this someplace in the archives with a lot more ideas.

Debbie 40 cd

scd originally 12/05

[Guest guest]

For the apple cider: it is called North Coast it is opaque, it is local from Sonoma county, organic, fresh pressed minimally processed only pasteurized.The other I am not sure of but doesn't seem to bother me is from trader Joe's: organic unfiltered apple juice. It is also opaque. Could they be legal?re: knifes: I just have a bunch of kitchen knifes smaller and larger and they are getting dull. I have a rod thing but don't know really how to use it. And having my knifes sharpened is quite expensive. I will go look at Bed and Bath. Just was wondering if the track thing works for people who don't know how to sharpen knifes with the rod.Thanks for people's input on the SSA, was helpful as well as earthquake stuff.Claude