Re: IBS and/or SIBO

[Guest guest]

I have had IBS diarrhea for 20 plus years. Comes and goes...got MUCH worse w/gall bladder removal last Jan. I probably have a gluten sensitivity too by trial and error (tested negative for celiac)

I don't know what SIBO is??

Marla

IBS-D

SCD 6 weeks

From: liliholm

Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:42 AM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: "IBS" and/or SIBO

Is there anyone else on this list with a diagnosis of or symptoms that match SIBO or "IBS"?Lilian

[Guest guest]

Maybe. I've been suffering D for years, pain, gas ... Never bleeded. I have not

been tested for sibo.

Disbyosis and leaky gut

Organic, dairy-free, low oxalate SCD Sept 4

>

> Is there anyone else on this list with a diagnosis of or symptoms that match

SIBO or " IBS " ?

>

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lilian,

I've had IBS for many years. All traditional tests say no Crohn's, no

colitis, I'm just perfectly normal, but for the IBS symptoms ;-)

Have had increasing food intolerances for years and test positive for

yeast. And have the hallmark symptom of SIBO of carbohydrate

intolerance--I'm down to 3 carb foods I can eat. Did a round of Xifaxan in

the spring---may have helped--hard to say since so many things were going on

at the time.

Does that give you the info you are looking for ?

Sue R

[Guest guest]

> I've had IBS for many years. All traditional tests say no Crohn's, no

> colitis, I'm just perfectly normal, but for the IBS symptoms ;-)

Hi Sue-

have you been on SCD long, and what has your experience been? What are your IBS

symptoms? (I find that such a meaningless diagnosis that I'm loath to even use

it..)

I've been diagnosed with IBS over and over, in other words no doc knows, or

cares, for that matter, what is causing my symptoms (abdominal distention and

all-over fluid retention in reaction to food, and chronic C). I've received

advice that is totally counterproductive (the standard fiber-stuff etc) and no

help. I recently read Dr. Pimentel's book and the theory of SIBO made total

sense and completely matched my symptoms, other than some actual stomach

symptoms that seem more in line with H. pylori. I tried two rounds of Xifaxan,

80% relief both times, but it only lasted for as long as I was on the

antibiotic.

So I started SCD. Initially it seemed to help, and I had a couple of wonderful

weeks. Now I'm completely back to where I started, for no apparent reason,and

can't seem to get better. Bloated all over, extremely distended and down ( I

always seem have some kind of serotonin-inhibition that is completely correlated

to the severity of the abdominal symptoms).

I'm looking for anyone who's experienced a similar situation and has some advice

to share. I'm so discouraged right now - I would do anything to make this better

if I only knew how. The medical establishment is of no help; IBS is so not

interesting to docs, and yet it affects countless people so severely.

I think this may have turned into something of a rant...sorry :^), but if you

have any info or advice to share, I'd love to hear!

Lilian

[Guest guest]

At 12:50 PM 12/28/2009, you wrote:

I've been diagnosed with IBS

over and over, in other words no doc knows, or cares, for that matter,

what is causing my symptoms (abdominal distention and all-over fluid

retention in reaction to food, and chronic C). I've received advice that

is totally counterproductive (the standard fiber-stuff etc) and no help.

I understand that one. Except mine was chronic D.

My Doc's favorite line was " Stop stuffing your face and lose some

weight, and it'll all clear up. Take a little Lomotil if it bothers

you. "

He said that even after I'd lost 180 pounds.

He also said it when I complained about exhaustion and pain -- which

turned out to be complex sleep apnea.

And he said it when I had gut cramps and post-menopausal bleeding --

which turned out to be endometrial cancer. He expressed surprise when my

oncologist wanted him to sign off on my surgery. " How did THIS

diagnosis come about? " he asked, as if I would run out and get a

cancer diagnosis for the fun of it.

This is why he is no longer my primary care physician.

I can tell you that SCD literally saved my life. It took TIME.

Constipation and diarrhea are two ends of the same problem.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

>>> >>> I've had IBS for many years. All traditional tests say no Crohn's, >> no>> colitis, I'm just perfectly normal, but for the IBS symptoms ;-)>> Hi Sue-> have you been on SCD long, and what has your experience been? What are > your IBS symptoms? (I find that such a meaningless diagnosis that I'm > loath to even use it..)>> I've been diagnosed with IBS over and over, in other words no doc knows, > or cares, for that matter, what is causing my symptoms (abdominal > distention and all-over fluid retention in reaction to food, and chronic > C). I've received advice that is totally counterproductive (the standard > fiber-stuff etc) and no help. I recently read Dr. Pimentel's book and > the theory of SIBO made total sense and completely matched my symptoms, > other than some actual stomach symptoms that seem more in line with H. > pylori. I tried two rounds of Xifaxan, 80% relief both times, but it > only lasted for as long as I was on the antibiotic.>> So I started SCD. Initially it seemed to help, and I had a couple of > wonderful weeks. Now I'm completely back to where I started, for no > apparent reason,and can't seem to get better. Bloated all over, > extremely distended and down ( I always seem have some kind of > serotonin-inhibition that is completely correlated to the severity of > the abdominal symptoms).>> I'm looking for anyone who's experienced a similar situation and has > some advice to share. I'm so discouraged right now - I would do anything > to make this better if I only knew how. The medical establishment is of > no help; IBS is so not interesting to docs, and yet it affects countless > people so severely.>> I think this may have turned into something of a rant...sorry :^), but > if you have any info or advice to share, I'd love to hear!> Lilian>Check this out. This MD says it's easily treatable: http://www.endfatigue.com/health_articles_r-s/Stomach-sibo_an_easily_treatable_cause_spastic_colon.htmln-- Now available. A fine  gift for cat lovers:Confessions of a Cataholic: My Life With the 10 Cats Who Caused My Addictionby n Van Tilwww.wordpowerpublishing.com ; signed copies; free shipping in U.S., reduced shipping elsewhere;

[Guest guest]

> I understand that one. Except mine was chronic D.

Wow, Marilyn, somehow I never noticed your diagnosis before. Now how did I miss

that?? Thanks for sharing, it's oddly comforting to know you're not alone in

your experience, and SO inspiring to know that, whatever it takes, something can

be done.

Sorry to hear you had to endure all that indifference from your dr. As a

health-care professional myself, I find that type of attitude quite terrible.

Anyway, onward and upwards. Perhaps I brought this on by advancing too fast,

maybe I should have stayed with meat and eggs for a while longer. Just getting a

little worried about nutritional deficiencies, I think my skin has suffered from

my restricted diet, and it's of course the only visible organ... Thanks again, a

million!

Lilian

ps Marla,SIBO stands for small intenstine bacterial overgrowth

pps what do you use in your coffee, instead of milk?

[Guest guest]

How is one diagnosed with SIBO?

Marla

From: liliholm

Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:02 PM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: Re: "IBS" and/or SIBO

> I understand that one. Except mine was chronic D.Wow, Marilyn, somehow I never noticed your diagnosis before. Now how did I miss that?? Thanks for sharing, it's oddly comforting to know you're not alone in your experience, and SO inspiring to know that, whatever it takes, something can be done.Sorry to hear you had to endure all that indifference from your dr. As a health-care professional myself, I find that type of attitude quite terrible.Anyway, onward and upwards. Perhaps I brought this on by advancing too fast, maybe I should have stayed with meat and eggs for a while longer. Just getting a little worried about nutritional deficiencies, I think my skin has suffered from my restricted diet, and it's of course the only visible organ... Thanks again, a million!Lilianps Marla,SIBO stands for small intenstine bacterial overgrowthpps what do you use in your coffee, instead of milk?

[Guest guest]

The problem with SIBO is, once you stop taking the antibiotics, the bacteria will most often return. A low carb diet along with the antibiotics, and then a low carb diet from then on, is the best way to try to combat it. If you are SCD, stay away from the fruit and honey.

To: BTVC-SCD From: mskrak1@...Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:35:37 -0500Subject: Re: Re: "IBS" and/or SIBO

How is one diagnosed with SIBO?

Marla

From: liliholm

Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:02 PM

To: BTVC-SCD

Subject: Re: "IBS" and/or SIBO

> I understand that one. Except mine was chronic D.Wow, Marilyn, somehow I never noticed your diagnosis before. Now how did I miss that?? Thanks for sharing, it's oddly comforting to know you're not alone in your experience, and SO inspiring to know that, whatever it takes, something can be done.Sorry to hear you had to endure all that indifference from your dr. As a health-care professional myself, I find that type of attitude quite terrible.Anyway, onward and upwards. Perhaps I brought this on by advancing too fast, maybe I should have stayed with meat and eggs for a while longer. Just getting a little worried about nutritional deficiencies, I think my skin has suffered from my restricted diet, and it's of course the only visible organ... Thanks again, a million!Lilianps Marla,SIBO stands for small intenstine bacterial overgrowthpps what do you use in your coffee, instead of milk?

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

Lilian,

What area of the health care profession are you in? (Sorry if you said

and I missed it.)

And yes -- SCD may not be the total answer, but I think it's a major

piece of the puzzle for many of us.

I will re post a piece of mine about " Balance Over Time, " which

we often forget about.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

>There are certain things even scd legal that

>IBS'ers just can not eat, one being tomato,

>eggplant, and a big no no for IBS is fatty

>foods, so you have to be careful what you

>choose. Almond flour is out too much fat, fried anything is too much fat.

Suzanne,

I second the notion that we are all different even within the IBS

community. I do have to avoid nightshade plants like the plague,

unless I am in the mood for excruciating pain for a few days.

However, I can eat more fat than I thought I could. I'm fine with

pretty much as much almond butter (and sometimes I make pecan

butter), and even nuts (not on bad days, of course). The blanched

sliced almonds are the easiest to handle. I'm fine on almond and

pecan flour or would be if I could figure out something to do with it

without eggs. Before I found SCD I did pretty much follow the IBS

trigger list and I had to limit fat much more than I do now. I

wouldn't fry anything, though.

I think the diary is imperative. I admit, I didn't start it at first

but I keep pretty close notes now. I think not only is it there to

look for patterns but just having to record things helps me to think

out what is happening, and perhaps why.

IBS, leaky gut, fibro, nightshade, Addison's

[Guest guest]

Hi Lilian, I went through my 20's that way...a long time ago. No diagnosis, and

I was the first 29 year old that my doc had every seen with cancerous colon

polyps! I think he looked at his job differently after that day he saved my

life.

Anyhoo, I am not saying that you have anything that dangerous...but it is

something that your body is telling you. Here is what worked for my family...

Take a step back. Your body is healing, are you eating too much ruffage too

soon? Too much starch? Feeding the yeast? Are you eating nuts, dairy, or

citrus, or berries early on? We can't have any of those (well, daddy and I have

a few nuts...but our 3yo does not)

Start simple and easy, the bone broth, avocadoes, veggies cooked in broth, soft

cooked meats if tolerated.

It has taken us about 6 months to level out. We did have waves of healing and

dye-off for no apparent reason. Sometimes we could look back at our journal (are

you keeping one?) and say...wow, we did make a little change. We started a new

probiotic, or we ate a lot of garlic or extra coconut oil. I had some salad at

a resteraunt, or a little cheat at a friends house.

There is almost something.

Does the bm smell like mothballs or medicinal? (tmi, but helpful anyway) Do

you have any rashes or discomfort with bm's?

I have been going through it for a long time for myself, my hubby, but mostly my

3yo son.

My personal biggest helps were:

yeast elimination diet

coconut oil/ghee blend

garlic tablets

good probiotics

bone soup / broth

natural meats/eggs

There will be waves of good and bad on the road to healing. Just take it easy

and know you are headed in the right direction.

Anne G

>

> Is there anyone else on this list with a diagnosis of or symptoms that match

SIBO or " IBS " ?

>

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

> Take a step back. Your body is healing, are you eating too much ruffage too

soon? Too much starch? Feeding the yeast? Are you eating nuts, dairy, or

citrus, or berries early on?

Uhm, yes, I have been eating nut bread...I just realized tonight that I need to

do something to unflare, and dicthing the nut flour is probably it (does anyone

know if I can freeze my 10 lbs of pecan flour??) The nut flour and cheese have

been my only enjoyments food-wise on SCD and the cheese, I think, is making the

C worse...Oh boy, I need to find *something* I would look forward to eating...my

eggs and ground beef patties aren't anyone's dream food...:^/

> Start simple and easy, the bone broth, avocadoes, veggies cooked in broth,

soft cooked meats if tolerated.

Where do you find bones to cook? I have been unable to find bones anywhere.

>

> It has taken us about 6 months to level out. We did have waves of healing and

dye-off for no apparent reason.

I wonder if these kinds of things are manifestations of one kind of bacteria

dying off and then another, hardier, dominating?

>are you keeping one

No, I should, shouldn't I? " I'm too darn busy " is my first thought, but really,

I'm too busy to be so distended I can't run without leakage..

> Does the bm smell like mothballs or medicinal? (tmi, but helpful anyway) Do

you have any rashes or discomfort with bm's?

No, but I have to say one thing, since I started SCD I have seen no more mucus

in the stool, and that's a great sign. Even now that I'm flaring mightily I

haven't seen any.

> My personal biggest helps were:

> yeast elimination diet

So you use no honey? Can you tolerate bananas?

> good probiotics

Did you try them pre-SCD? Were they helpful then? I've taken probiotics for so

many years, every brand there is, and they never seemed to have any effect. Nor

do enzymes.

> Just take it easy and know you are headed in the right direction.

Thanks, Anne, I really needed to hear this tonight. More helpful than you can

imagine. Or maybe you can :^).

Thanks a LOT!

Lilian

" IBS-C " 12 years

[Guest guest]

I either ask the butcher at one grocery store to cut some bones for broth or get my mom to get a friend of hers in a different part of town to get oxtail which I freeze because they are usually huge.

 

A few places I looked for bones didn't have them.  I asked the butcher where I usually go (same place I find the on Farms chicken) and he said bones were usually for dogs and I should eat a steak ;-).  (I live in Texas so experiences may vary!)

 

Debbie 40 cd.

[Guest guest]

I find beef bones in the freezer section of the supermarket. I have seen them at

Teeter and Lowes. The butcher departments don't carry them.

PJ

>

> > Take a step back. Your body is healing, are you eating too much ruffage too

soon? Too much starch? Feeding the yeast? Are you eating nuts, dairy, or

citrus, or berries early on?

>

> Uhm, yes, I have been eating nut bread...I just realized tonight that I need

to do something to unflare, and dicthing the nut flour is probably it (does

anyone know if I can freeze my 10 lbs of pecan flour??) The nut flour and cheese

have been my only enjoyments food-wise on SCD and the cheese, I think, is making

the C worse...Oh boy, I need to find *something* I would look forward to

eating...my eggs and ground beef patties aren't anyone's dream food...:^/

>

> > Start simple and easy, the bone broth, avocadoes, veggies cooked in broth,

soft cooked meats if tolerated.

>

> Where do you find bones to cook? I have been unable to find bones anywhere.

>

> >

> > It has taken us about 6 months to level out. We did have waves of healing

and dye-off for no apparent reason.

>

> I wonder if these kinds of things are manifestations of one kind of bacteria

dying off and then another, hardier, dominating?

>

> >are you keeping one

>

> No, I should, shouldn't I? " I'm too darn busy " is my first thought, but

really, I'm too busy to be so distended I can't run without leakage..

>

> > Does the bm smell like mothballs or medicinal? (tmi, but helpful anyway)

Do you have any rashes or discomfort with bm's?

>

> No, but I have to say one thing, since I started SCD I have seen no more mucus

in the stool, and that's a great sign. Even now that I'm flaring mightily I

haven't seen any.

>

>

> > My personal biggest helps were:

> > yeast elimination diet

>

> So you use no honey? Can you tolerate bananas?

>

> > good probiotics

>

> Did you try them pre-SCD? Were they helpful then? I've taken probiotics for so

many years, every brand there is, and they never seemed to have any effect. Nor

do enzymes.

>

> > Just take it easy and know you are headed in the right direction.

>

> Thanks, Anne, I really needed to hear this tonight. More helpful than you can

imagine. Or maybe you can :^).

>

> Thanks a LOT!

> Lilian

>

> " IBS-C " 12 years

>

[Guest guest]

Recently on pecanbread, they were talking about how regular bones have lead and

other impurities in them, and that making bone broth leaches that junk out. Does

anyone know if this is a major concern? Do you have to make bone broth from

pastured organic bones to be safe?

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

[Guest guest]

Holly,

Pastured is the way to go.

We cannot escape the crap in our food supply and the conditions animals are

raised in or what they are fed.

It is best to go to your local farmer's market or even realmilk.com and see WAPF

suggestions for places to you locally and start calling for sources. Get to

know your farmer. They are a business too- so what I have understood is I melt

away my ideals and try to make the best choices available to me at the time

which includes finances as well.

It's possible to save money also buying pastured animals by buying with a group

of people etc..

Organic today is better then nothing but it is a bit of a farce so if you are

buying " Organic " in a Whole Foods type place it's probably a better choice than

other chain stores but they still reserve the right to inject crap into their

animals. Also, pay attention that 3rd world countries supply the US with

organics. This is a loophole as they don't have " proper " oversight in their own

country so teh term organic is thrown around like an old shoe.

I dig the old school farmers that were on the cusp of the organic revolution,

participating within it.. as the years have gone on they have gotten

disenchanted and have disassociated themselves. Some of these folks now call

themselves " uncertified organic "

Pay attention also what feed means when it comes to animals. Pastured does not

mean " grass fed " . The USDA changed it's designation as to what Grass Fed

means.. Grass fed also does not mean " grass finished " .. and the list goes on

and on..

Don't get me started on eggs.

If you can get pastured bones from a good source- that is the way to go IMO.

Certainly, by no means a requirement on the SCD. This is where our personal

choice and wiggle room come in!

Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

What a crazy mess the food system is! I've never made an actual bone broth, just

chicken soup with the whole chicken carcass in it. They're just regular ol'

chickens though (on Farms, I think), so maybe I should de-bone it before

cooking in the future.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> Holly,

>

> Pastured is the way to go.

> We cannot escape the crap in our food supply and the conditions animals are

raised in or what they are fed.

> It is best to go to your local farmer's market or even realmilk.com and see

WAPF suggestions for places to you locally and start calling for sources. Get

to know your farmer. They are a business too- so what I have understood is I

melt away my ideals and try to make the best choices available to me at the time

which includes finances as well.

> It's possible to save money also buying pastured animals by buying with a

group of people etc..

>

> Organic today is better then nothing but it is a bit of a farce so if you are

buying " Organic " in a Whole Foods type place it's probably a better choice than

other chain stores but they still reserve the right to inject crap into their

animals. Also, pay attention that 3rd world countries supply the US with

organics. This is a loophole as they don't have " proper " oversight in their own

country so teh term organic is thrown around like an old shoe.

>

> I dig the old school farmers that were on the cusp of the organic revolution,

participating within it.. as the years have gone on they have gotten

disenchanted and have disassociated themselves. Some of these folks now call

themselves " uncertified organic "

>

> Pay attention also what feed means when it comes to animals. Pastured does

not mean " grass fed " . The USDA changed it's designation as to what Grass Fed

means.. Grass fed also does not mean " grass finished " .. and the list goes on

and on..

>

> Don't get me started on eggs.

>

> If you can get pastured bones from a good source- that is the way to go IMO.

Certainly, by no means a requirement on the SCD. This is where our personal

choice and wiggle room come in!

>

> Jodi